Cyerforce for TopCow Talent hunt, WIP.

[joakimhagstrom]

Feedback on this new version highly appreciated!

[Black Walrus]

You've done a very good job communicating the same story information with a lot less clutter! I'm super impressed by the work ethic that it takes to come back and redo these things from scratch. The new look of the bad guys is a huge improvement, they look dangerous and well designed. I think in the first and second version her facial expressions don't work for me, I would have to re-read the script but shouldn't she look afraid? That will probably help the reader key in on the fact that the explosion was aimed at her not caused by her. Then again, the script may say she should be smiling.

I don't have a solution for this but, the rain, the taps from her feet on the wall and the bullets bouncing off the wall are getting a little muddled up for me.

This is an aesthetic/style opinion but I find her nipples distracting (as nipples so often are), I think occasionally having their shape visible will be very sexy, but being able to see them while she is 100 meters away running on a wall feels gratuitous and kinda trashy.

I think the layout for the last montage panel is really good and is a super efficient way to convey all those detailed parts of her run. I think the poses could all use some tweaking though. The first one I don't understand the physics of what she is doing. The 2nd, I would like her more involved with or reacting to the forces of the explosion. The last one is great, I love the twisting, but I think her head should not be turned/twisted with her body. And her facial expression again, more concerned/worried?.

Man, if I was have as productive at drawing as I am at giving feedback I would be really good a drawing. But feedback is easy. I'm really impressed by the art and the work ethic. Keep it up man.

[joakimhagstrom]

Oh man, thanks for taking the time to give me such a great critique! I really need this feedback!

You've done a very good job communicating the same story information with a lot less clutter! I'm super impressed by the work ethic that it takes to come back and redo these things from scratch. The new look of the bad guys is a huge improvement, they look dangerous and well designed. I think in the first and second version her facial expressions don't work for me, I would have to re-read the script but shouldn't she look afraid? That will probably help the reader key in on the fact that the explosion was aimed at her not caused by her. Then again, the script may say she should be smiling.

That's a good point... I sort of made an assumtion that she's being a bit cocky in the beginning when they're trying to shoot her and she's running away, but that isn't specified in the script. It makes more sense if she's a bit worried and anxious, since she's being shot at. It also pulls in more into the story since it's more relatable.

I don't have a solution for this but, the rain, the taps from her feet on the wall and the bullets bouncing off the wall are getting a little muddled up for me.

I will definitely clean this up more, absolutely. At this stage they're more there to mark the locations for it, but I will make it clear they are separate things happening.

This is an aesthetic/style opinion but I find her nipples distracting (as nipples so often are), I think occasionally having their shape visible will be very sexy, but being able to see them while she is 100 meters away running on a wall feels gratuitous and kinda trashy.

Man, gotta be honest here. I'm super uncomfortable with the whole "drawing sexy ladies" gig. I don't think I've ever drawn nipples on something before. So I really appreciate a second opinion from mine here, and the nipps when she's in the back can definitely go away. I'll keep this in mind for the other pages.

I think maybe because I feel inadequate in making sexy postures I just tried slapping on some nipples, but I should work more on the postures in stead and dial down the tasteless stuff.

I think the layout for the last montage panel is really good and is a super efficient way to convey all those detailed parts of her run. I think the poses could all use some tweaking though. The first one I don't understand the physics of what she is doing. The 2nd, I would like her more involved with or reacting to the forces of the explosion. The last one is great, I love the twisting, but I think her head should not be turned/twisted with her body. And her facial expression again, more concerned/worried?.

I see what you're saying with the postures here... I think it goes together with the emotional expression here as well. I've been doing her just slipping away from the gunfire without any difficulty, which also makes her poses more gliding and unaffected. If I approach it more from the idea that she's clearly avoiding the gunfire and actively straining herself I can produce postures that are more clearly relatable in that they are conveying both movement and intent.

Man, if I was have as productive at drawing as I am at giving feedback I would be really good a drawing. But feedback is easy. I'm really impressed by the art and the work ethic. Keep it up man.

Hey, thanks for the great pointers! It was thought through, and I feel I really got something clear to work with from it. I greatly appreciate it! Also, now I feel more confident that I perhaps wont be redrawing the whole page from scratch again. (although I'll have to wait and see if Smitty comes with some insight that has me srapping my work again!)

[Black Walrus]

Man, gotta be honest here. I'm super uncomfortable with the whole "drawing sexy ladies" gig. I don't think I've ever drawn nipples on something before. So I really appreciate a second opinion from mine here, and the nipps when she's in the back can definitely go away. I'll keep this in mind for the other pages.

I think maybe because I feel inadequate in making sexy postures I just tried slapping on some nipples, but I should work more on the postures in stead and dial down the tasteless stuff.

I'm surprised to hear you say that because I am envious of your babe drawing skills, they are quite good I think. Maybe if you focus on drawing poses which are dynamic and energetic, the sexiness will just come along by default. I mean, Olympic athletes don't do things in a "sexy way" but they are still sexy as hell. I don't know if this applies, again, I'm no babe drawing master.

[pell]

I don't have time for a full critique right now, but I have to say that last page is a vast improvement over the first. I have to admit when I opened the thread I thought "Wow, I've seen joakimhagstrom post way stronger work here." You've become the artist to try to beat in Pummel.

[joakimhagstrom]

I'm surprised to hear you say that because I am envious of your babe drawing skills, they are quite good I think. Maybe if you focus on drawing poses which are dynamic and energetic, the sexiness will just come along by default. I mean, Olympic athletes don't do things in a "sexy way" but they are still sexy as hell. I don't know if this applies, again, I'm no babe drawing master.

Yes, working on posture even more and not taking cheap shots at sexuality will be even more focused in on… you gave me a lot to work on, but very pointed and reasonable things! I thank you again!

[joakimhagstrom]

I don't have time for a full critique right now, but I have to say that last page is a vast improvement over the first. I have to admit when I opened the thread I thought "Wow, I've seen joakimhagstrom post way stronger work here." You've become the artist to try to beat in Pummel.

Thanks!

yeah, putting something you like aside and looking at it again a few weeks later is really important… and having the patience to rework it and not just collapse over onto that knives edge of self-criticism and search for constant betterment that all creatives carry around with them, cutting their achievements off short of a finish line.

thank you Pell! I try not to disappoint with the pummel pieces.

[Smitty]

As artists we are not paid to draw anymore than a writer is paid to type. Drawing is the tool we use to do our job which is to tell the story. It is not our job to execute exciting graphics, our job is to show clear examples of exiting ideas and scenarios. You're concentrating on money shots at the expense of story. Story is everything, money shots are worthless. If you can do both, fine. If you have to choose between them, choose story everytime.

We start with jogger and puppy enjoying a run. She starts bouncing around for no reason. Things explode out of nowhere and the eye traffic pattern you've set up leaves us looking at aliens shooting guns up into space and leading the eye up, away and backwards suggesting the reader should close the book and look at the cover. If you're going to lead the eye, lead it down and to the right so the reader turns into the book and story.

If Jogging Girl and Puppy Dog are under attack, SHOW US! Show us the fear in their postures and faces. Pin the dogs ears back, open his eyes, tuck his tail. SHOW aliens shooting down AT our heroes and not up into the sky. Lead us off the page to the right and into the story.

[Bryan E.Warner]

Your Line Weight is better here..I hope it keeps getting better...don't rely on color to sell your work...Draw like it's never gonna see color...an if an when it does it'll look all the Cooler.. ( Remember Color is Free on the net...Not so in real life )..Line Weights...Thinner to the light..heavy to the shadows...

[joakimhagstrom]

Thanks for your answer! you're at the point as always.

As artists we are not paid to draw anymore than a writer is paid to type. Drawing is the tool we use to do our job which is to tell the story. It is not our job to execute exciting graphics, our job is to show clear examples of exiting ideas and scenarios. You're concentrating on money shots at the expense of story. Story is everything, money shots are worthless. If you can do both, fine. If you have to choose between them, choose story everytime.

noted. Definitely something I need to work on.

We start with jogger and puppy enjoying a run. She starts bouncing around for no reason. Things explode out of nowhere and the eye traffic pattern you've set up leaves us looking at aliens shooting guns up into space and leading the eye up, away and backwards suggesting the reader should close the book and look at the cover. If you're going to lead the eye, lead it down and to the right so the reader turns into the book and story.

I see what you mean here.
In the script the panel with them shooting is the fourth. Me doing the panorama with them shooting below it was basically trying to put it as panel 2, but without diverting completely from the scripted order. It's definitely better to keep the boxed in layout from before but move p4 to p2 though, like you showed in your sketch-over.

If Jogging Girl and Puppy Dog are under attack, SHOW US! Show us the fear in their postures and faces. Pin the dogs ears back, open his eyes, tuck his tail. SHOW aliens shooting down AT our heroes and not up into the sky. Lead us off the page to the right and into the story.

Absolutely. I got this fedback before as well, and it's something i need to work in better. Just changing her expression to reflect what is happening does a lot for how I in turn draw her stance and movement.

I'll revert more back to the initial layout, but with some tweaking.
For now it looks like this:


I will add more clarification for where the gunfire comes from, make it so that they're shooting more properly in her direction, and add some clarity at the bottom that the wall collapses from an explosion, and that she runs away from it. Then I will do a draw-over to clarify the level of detail and line-weight.

Thank you for the feed-back again Smitty I really appreciate it!

[joakimhagstrom]

Your Line Weight is better here..I hope it keeps getting better...don't rely on color to sell your work...Draw like it's never gonna see color...an if an when it does it'll look all the Cooler.. ( Remember Color is Free on the net...Not so in real life )..Line Weights...Thinner to the light..heavy to the shadows...

Thanks Bryan!
Yes, I will refine the line weight with another draw-over so that it's more homogenous once I get the layout down 100%.

[pell]

Hey, joakimhagstrom. Your last post got flagged as spam, probably for more than three images. While approving it, I also moved it to the Sequentials forum where it is more on-topic.

https://www.penciljack.com/forum/laboratories/sequential-art/1001259-cyberforce-for-topcow-talent-hunt