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  • RedHawk88
    replied
    Smitty Yea, I'm not a fan of Hogarth either and most professional artists I know think his books are kind of a joke. The comment about noir films makes sense. They typically have the most interesting lighting features. Anyway, thanks for the input.

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  • Smitty
    replied
    Originally posted by RedHawk88 View Post
    Smitty What about the other drawing I made? Not the first two I posted but the next one? The one where the bald monster is looking upward. Personally I think the anatomy is wonky and it may have the same lighting problems as the drawing you mentioned in you last

    as for your last post, yea I have a hard time trying to map out lighting. Not to be annoying but do you have any art book recommendations to help with lighting? I know Byrne Hogarth has one. Not sure how useful it is tho.
    The comment was directed at all the pieces, the first was simply the most egregious. You're getting lost in minutiae giving all your attention to line and none to form, shape, mass, volume. Of all the things we need to worry about, line is worthless and undeserving of attention. Line is the tool not the goal. If we look at your second example, you're so concerned with line weight that we've lost the monster altogether. We have a child in a halloween costume, a black body suit with white bones printed on top.

    Ditko guy that I am, I try to leave all lighting to the brush stage. I don't have any books to recommend but, I am a huge fan of film noir. Normally I try to steer people clear of Hogarth as I find it grotesque, lifeless, twisted, dead... but, for inspiration in dealing with undead zombies, I suppose he'd be perfect.

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  • humble-tomato
    replied
    Originally posted by Smitty View Post
    In a Marvel Universe, model sheet application, a straight on, non-perspective shot is fine, if not preferable, because we're not dealing with story or character, we're dealing in specs: X heads high, X heads wide; human legs, goat legs, elephant legs; horizontal or vertical stripes; shin guard above or below the knees... In these cases, lack of perspective makes things easier to see and measure. The fact that it adds lifelessness is immaterial.
    Thanks to you, now I fully understand what I had as a vague idea. Apparently not many people understand this even in the industry if the artist is not in that specific department.
    I remember in my animation class about 20 years ago, a teacher corrected all our rotation model sheets to follow a circle(ellipse in perspective) on the character's feet. So the 3/4 back view's feet will be higher than 3/4 front because of the turn table effect in circle in perspective. That teacher was a layout guy, not character design guy. I always thought he was wrong since then, but I couldn't clearly define why. Now you put down VERY clear reasons. You solved my 20 years dilemma.

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  • RedHawk88
    replied
    Smitty What about the other drawing I made? Not the first two I posted but the next one? The one where the bald monster is looking upward. Personally I think the anatomy is wonky and it may have the same lighting problems as the drawing you mentioned in you last

    as for your last post, yea I have a hard time trying to map out lighting. Not to be annoying but do you have any art book recommendations to help with lighting? I know Byrne Hogarth has one. Not sure how useful it is tho.

    Leave a comment:


  • Smitty
    replied
    Put the left hoof in, pull the right hoof out. Do the hokey pokey and shake it all about.

    A baseline geometrically parallel to the horizon: Good or bad? Depends on the purpose of the drawing.

    In a Marvel Universe, model sheet application, a straight on, non-perspective shot is fine, if not preferable, because we're not dealing with story or character, we're dealing in specs: X heads high, X heads wide; human legs, goat legs, elephant legs; horizontal or vertical stripes; shin guard above or below the knees... In these cases, lack of perspective makes things easier to see and measure. The fact that it adds lifelessness is immaterial.

    If we're telling a story, perspective becomes mandatory. We want readers to believe that the story is "real", the characters alive. A flat baseline tells the reader this character is dead, lifeless, inanimate. Perspective, double curves, off center balance tell us the character is alive and can affect us good or bad.

    Enough babble, on to the question: Left hoof higher or lower? Depends. What's our story? Left hoof high suggests motion; a perfectly acceptable action for a member of the walking dead. Left foot low suggests a freeze, snif-sniff, fe fi fo fum, I smell the blood of a comics bum... O, SMURF, IT SMELLS ME! Instilling fear is the walking dead's job so, another good choice. Let your story be your guide.

    WARNING! GRUMPY OLD MAN ALERT! RUN AWAY!

    Red Hawk, pick a light source and stick to it. You're drawing every muscle group with six light sources: up, down, left, right, forward and back. Pick one and let te others go. Heck, because this is a creepy-crawly, we'll give you two: key light and back light (to help masses pop from the shadows)

    All that stuff on his abdomen, BLACK. his left leg, BLACK. The rim lighting on the legs and crotch, BLACK. Monsters don't come with LED strings outlining muscle groups. Unless you NEED rim light to pop from the BG (and you have no BG) leave it out. It adds no information it's just clutter. If things get lost in the shadows, good! That's what shadows are for.

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  • Josem
    replied
    Life is the source, once you understand what youre drawing, you can reproduce it how many times you want. Don't just copy, understand the form, from inside out. Perspective is the law.

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  • RedHawk88
    replied
    humble-tomato Yea, perspective seems to be everything when it comes to drawing. Also, I didn't really use any reference for this piece. At least there wasn't a photo of a model in that pose. This was my attempt to try and draw this thing strictly drawing from my understanding of anatomy. What do you guys think? Should I try and just make my own reference of whatever character I'm trying to draw, or is okay to draw strictly from imagination. I've heard different takes. Not sure which one to go with.

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  • Josem
    replied
    Probably you're missing reference. Don't get frustrated, look on the bright side, today was a good day, we all learned something. Break a lead.

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  • humble-tomato
    replied
    I can tell you one that's missing with sureness. Perspective. I learned you really need to decide horizon line and have rough orthogonals at least, even when drawing a figure without a background.

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  • RedHawk88
    replied
    I realize the deltoids don't work for me. And yes, the left knee does need to be lower. Just frustrated over these anatomy mistakes. Sometimes I feel I'm missing something...

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  • hoosiermouse
    replied
    I think if you typed Smitty it would work.

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  • humble-tomato
    replied
    Let's pray the Jedi master(@Smitty) shows up for this one. ;p (See there? I used his ID with @. Hope that's how it works)
    Last edited by humble-tomato; 01-28-2020, 03:27 PM.

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  • Josem
    replied
    By the position of the arms, i think it makes sense, left arm is coming forward, left leg back. Smitty will share some light, i'm sure.

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  • humble-tomato
    replied
    I was saying lower.. not higher... but wonder if it can read as stepping forward. My guess is Smitty would say the whole body pose should work for that.. But not quite sure for my level.

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  • Josem
    replied
    yeah, good point. Something like this?

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