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"Crane Stance" Wolverine

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  • "Crane Stance" Wolverine



    I was watching "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" again today, and was inspired to try this pose. (If you crop-out his right foot, I think his expression makes him look like he's experiencing some "intestinal distress")

  • #2
    Your threads never fail to deliver on the nightmare fuel.
    I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it. ~Pablo Picasso

    my deviantart
    my sketchbook

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    • #3
      I'm not sure how to take that, Mlaw……but I choose to not be offended

      Comment


      • #4
        You really should study proportions. Look at Proko.com at their human proportions (actually, all of their site could do you some good).

        Head too large, legs too small, too much "skinless" muscle, etc.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by yomark View Post
          I'm not sure how to take that, Mlaw……but I choose to not be offended
          Take it how you want but that drawing is the scariest thing I've seen in a pretty large span of time. I'm not gonna lie, I know it's not intentional but for real.. run with it.. draw up some Clive Barker type stuff and I think you'll honestly have found your sweet spot.
          I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it. ~Pablo Picasso

          my deviantart
          my sketchbook

          Comment


          • #6
            I think your skinless medical muscle anatomy look is what makes your drawings look scary rather than appealing. I see that you have ability to draw forms and studied muscle anatomy.. so working on giving bulkier, and flesh covered look will improve yours immensely.. studyng body builder refwrences and knowing where to connect lines or not will help too IMHO

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Always Drawing View Post
              You really should study proportions. Look at Proko.com at their human proportions (actually, all of their site could do you some good). Head too large, legs too small, too much "skinless" muscle, etc.
              I have been told that consistently over the years here. I had HOPED to join a figure drawing class (which experience I was hoping would begin to solve some of my issues), but I'd thought of it too late too register for the current semester at my local community college (Los Angeles Pierce College). I'll find something soon, I hope. I DID register at the Proko site……thank you for the link. I probably wont sign-up for classes there, but at LEAST I got a free set of reference photos out of the deal.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey, Mark. I'm gonna give you an exercise, and I really hope you'll do it. For the next, say, month, muscles don't exist for you. An arm is a cylinder. A torso is a box. Etc. Forget the muscles even exist, and just get the basic masses and proportions right. Draw a few hundred figures like that. I promise you this is what you need.
                http://www.brandonpalas.com

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MLaw View Post
                  Take it how you want but that drawing is the scariest thing I've seen in a pretty large span of time. I'm not gonna lie, I know it's not intentional but for real.. run with it.. draw up some Clive Barker type stuff and I think you'll honestly have found your sweet spot.
                  I will consider it.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by humble-tomato View Post
                    I think your skinless medical muscle anatomy look is what makes your drawings look scary rather than appealing. I see that you have ability to draw forms and studied muscle anatomy.. so working on giving bulkier, and flesh covered look will improve yours immensely.. studying body builder references and knowing where to connect lines or not will help too IMHO
                    Thank you. That helps me understand the context of the comment. And again: that observation that my figures appear "skinless" has come up before (probably no surprise to you all)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Orphangrinder View Post
                      Hey, Mark. I'm gonna give you an exercise, and I really hope you'll do it. For the next, say, month, muscles don't exist for you. An arm is a cylinder. A torso is a box. Etc. Forget the muscles even exist, and just get the basic masses and proportions right. Draw a few hundred figures like that. I promise you this is what you need.
                      I will consider it.

                      But, that's why I want to take a class. I know it's undisciplined to think this way, but exercises such as you suggest don't motivate me to draw. in a class, somehow, it seems like I'd be more motivated.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Anyway: Thank you, guys for all your input. I will probably be posting some more drawings that are not apparently affected by your advice, because they were already drawn and scanned before before.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          YOMARK- I think the crux of this.. I can't think of many (or any) members who haven't tried to give you a hand. Maybe breaking things down into their basic shapes doesn't motivate you to draw.. but let me ask you this.. Do you think I really like drawing fruit, naked dudes, matchbooks, watches, and whatever else I can get my hands on? (I do enjoy drawing the nekkid ladies but that's another topic). It's like music.. nobody wants to sit and learn the different chords, or notes, or whatever.. and nobody wants to learn Chopsticks or Mary had a little lamb or any of that stuff.. They do it because it helps you learn.. what you learn.. you take and turn into your own thing. Let me ask you this.. if you could spend 2 miserable crappy weeks.. every minute you're not otherwise engaged drawing specific exercises or doing studies.. if you knew for a fact it would improve your art forever.. wouldn't you do it? What's 2 miserable weeks compared to being able to do exactly what you want to with your art?
                          Dave Rapoza is the poster child for this thinking. He said basically "I want to do art for Magic and D&D".. So he did some research and decided to spend 1 full year in studies.. doing nothing but busting his ass.. all day every day. Learning, doing studies.. whatever. If someone told him that pissing upside down would make him a better artist during that time period.. guess what he was going to be doing the next few days? Now... the guy is a artist that has worked on most of the major blockbusters as a concept artist or poster artist. He went from being a petty shoplifter to a millionaire (presumably.. he's very well off now if you hear him talk). His art... most haven't seen his older stuff.. I was in Crimson Daggers so I did manage .. and it was mediocre at best.. His work is just crazy now.

                          I'm saying all of this not to entice you with the idea of getting rich.. I've studied my ass off and I got better sure.. but am not rich.. so no.. it's not a magic formula for wealth.. but.. I can tell you 100% without a doubt.. if you put in those crappy hours studying and doing the structure and form drawings and learning those boring things.. You will be able to take from your mind and apply it directly to visual life.. in the same way that that musician.. who learned chopsticks, twinkle twinkle, itsy bitsy spider.. whatever.. is now able to play Mozart. I love art.. and I think learning art for expression is an amazingly freeing thing.. and being able to bring it to people isn't something I take lightly. Should you continue in the direction you're going.. I don't know that you're ever going to arrive at the destination you seem to want to be at. To me.. and maybe others.. you seem like you have a certain level of understanding.. and you have the desire and even the skill if I'm being honest.. but you seem to not understand that gap. That gap isn't filled in from simple answers or us pointing things out.. it sincerely is from doing the boring shit. It sucks. I won't sugar coat it.. there's nothing as crappy as copying another artist or drawing some fat naked dude or doing a still life of your wrist watch and a rotting banana. However.. there is also no other way to gain the invaluable knowledge gleaned from any of that. Sorry.. but thems the breaks.
                          I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it. ~Pablo Picasso

                          my deviantart
                          my sketchbook

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by yomark View Post
                            Thank you. That helps me understand the context of the comment. And again: that observation that my figures appear "skinless" has come up before (probably no surprise to you all)
                            There's a video (youtube I think) where an artist (I'm pretty sure it was David Finch) talks about exactly this. What lines do you put in and leave out. He does some drawings and talks about the main idea. Just one of the things to take away.. outside of some of your faces, your figure work seems to be lacking a layer of fat or skin. Both of those obscure the details, leaving what are affectionately known as surface details. Usually, muscle insertions or maybe only the deepest separations between muscles will be visible. That's why OG suggested that exercise. Surface detail and form.

                            Some basic info..
                            The average person is going to have a body fat content at least 20 something %.. mostly.. higher than that.
                            As someone who has been bodybuilding, I can tell you with absolute firsthand knowledge.. the level of muscle definition you're showing isn't visible until you get into single digit fat content. I've personally been down as low as 9%.. and no.. you couldn't see ever fiber of my deltoids.. I am always in and around military places.. and my friend that's a 210 lb first sgt in the USMC with extremely low bodyfat.. ya can't see his muscle fibers.

                            I will say.. 1 time in the gym.. out of all the days I spend there.. I saw a guy who was so lean you could see his muscles sliding and all kinds of other weird craziness... and.. you still couldn't see all the muscle fibers. (on a guess.. he was ~6% body fat)

                            What's my point in all of this? That knowledge I just laid out.. if you had listened to me and others.. a year or two ago.. and just swallowed your pride and done the basic exercises and studies.. you would know that. If from nothing else but sheer observation!
                            The other side of this is, studying anatomy does teach us where and how skin and fat deposits effect the shape and structure of the face and body. Some of your faces have fat deposits in very bizarre places. It tends to result in strangely bloated looks or other .. just.. weird faces. I think you have the capability to bring that in and create something with it but if you don't study and just do the crappy parts for a while, it'll keep being awkward.

                            NOW.. All of that aside! What I said before about horror drawings. I mean that. If you stay raw and untapped.. the stuff you're doing is unintentionally freaky.. but you could really capitalize on that. In that sole circumstance, I think learning the "proper" way.. might honestly hold you back. That isn't meant as a dig or insult.. It's like.. if someone told Charles Schulz to learn anatomy before drawing Peanuts (Charlie Brown). What you're doing does not work for mainstream art. I think you get that.. but man.. if you go all out freaky with it.. I really think it would be something else..
                            I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it. ~Pablo Picasso

                            my deviantart
                            my sketchbook

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MLaw View Post
                              YOMARK- I think the crux of this.. I can't think of many (or any) members who haven't tried to give you a hand. Maybe breaking things down into their basic shapes doesn't motivate you to draw.. but let me ask you this.. Do you think I really like drawing fruit, naked dudes, matchbooks, watches, and whatever else I can get my hands on? (I do enjoy drawing the nekkid ladies but that's another topic). It's like music.. nobody wants to sit and learn the different chords, or notes, or whatever.. and nobody wants to learn Chopsticks or Mary had a little lamb or any of that stuff.. They do it because it helps you learn.. what you learn.. you take and turn into your own thing. Let me ask you this.. if you could spend 2 miserable crappy weeks.. every minute you're not otherwise engaged drawing specific exercises or doing studies.. if you knew for a fact it would improve your art forever.. wouldn't you do it? What's 2 miserable weeks compared to being able to do exactly what you want to with your art?
                              Dave Rapoza is the poster child for this thinking. He said basically "I want to do art for Magic and D&D".. So he did some research and decided to spend 1 full year in studies.. doing nothing but busting his ass.. all day every day. Learning, doing studies.. whatever. If someone told him that pissing upside down would make him a better artist during that time period.. guess what he was going to be doing the next few days? Now... the guy is a artist that has worked on most of the major blockbusters as a concept artist or poster artist. He went from being a petty shoplifter to a millionaire (presumably.. he's very well off now if you hear him talk). His art... most haven't seen his older stuff.. I was in Crimson Daggers so I did manage .. and it was mediocre at best.. His work is just crazy now.

                              I'm saying all of this not to entice you with the idea of getting rich.. I've studied my ass off and I got better sure.. but am not rich.. so no.. it's not a magic formula for wealth.. but.. I can tell you 100% without a doubt.. if you put in those crappy hours studying and doing the structure and form drawings and learning those boring things.. You will be able to take from your mind and apply it directly to visual life.. in the same way that that musician.. who learned chopsticks, twinkle twinkle, itsy bitsy spider.. whatever.. is now able to play Mozart. I love art.. and I think learning art for expression is an amazingly freeing thing.. and being able to bring it to people isn't something I take lightly. Should you continue in the direction you're going.. I don't know that you're ever going to arrive at the destination you seem to want to be at. To me.. and maybe others.. you seem like you have a certain level of understanding.. and you have the desire and even the skill if I'm being honest.. but you seem to not understand that gap. That gap isn't filled in from simple answers or us pointing things out.. it sincerely is from doing the boring shit. It sucks. I won't sugar coat it.. there's nothing as crappy as copying another artist or drawing some fat naked dude or doing a still life of your wrist watch and a rotting banana. However.. there is also no other way to gain the invaluable knowledge gleaned from any of that. Sorry.. but thems the breaks.
                              Thank you. Well-articulated and, I assure you, well-received. (and quite funny in parts!)

                              I guess I have to take a long look at at "why" I'm so resistant to discipline. Again, I'd hoped taking a class would help me there, but maybe that's the "easy" way out?

                              It's been over ten years that I've been posting here (at the time, concurrently with the now-defunct DrawingBoard). I recently came across a drawing I did ten years ago, and was struck with the level of improvement over those years (not to toot my own horn). My point is, this gave me some confidence that I'd not had for some time, and (I believe) allowed me therefore to be more receptive to everyone's advice here.

                              I AM slow to change my behavior, that doesn't mean I won't……just that I might frustrate outside observers in the meantime.

                              Thanks again for your advice (I'll look Dave Rapoza up), and I take it (I hope) in the tone it's intended. You're a good PJ friend! I'd give you rep, if I had that power.
                              Last edited by yomark; 02-17-2017, 01:56 PM.

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