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Sample Pages from my Graphic Novel

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  • Maulsmash
    replied
    Yeah, the idea is to not overcomplicate things or recreate the wheel...however, like in all creative rules, there are times to break those rules, but you do have to understand why those rules are there first. (I use rules loosly here)

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  • Jim
    replied
    Originally posted by Maulsmash View Post
    This is advice often given in design in general, especially interface design and development(day job). Less harsh alternative spin Is to design to the lowest common denominator.
    This is true. Though I also seem to spend a lot of time pointing out to people that they're assuming their audience are all thicker than they are. I'll send a piece of work off, and someone will say 'I'm not sure people will recognise X' or 'I don't think people will know what X is meant to be', and I say 'But did you get it?'. 'Yes'. Well... are you really that special that only you can figure it out?

    Sometimes it's good to put stuff out there that requires some interpretation. Probably not so much with interface design.

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  • Maulsmash
    replied
    Originally posted by D.C. View Post

    Hey, I had Klaus Jasen at SVA as well!

    The thing that always sticks in my mind from him is akin to yours but it boiled down to "Assume the reader is a moron." You can have a complicated story but the storytelling itself needs to be so clear an idiot can follow it.
    This is advice often given in design in general, especially interface design and development(day job). Less harsh alternative spin Is to design to the lowest common denominator.

    Leave a comment:


  • Maulsmash
    replied
    Originally posted by Rene A. View Post
    "Have the humility to ask for feedback, but don't take it as gospel", from a text message I got back from Gary Vee when I screen shot some of my work and texted it to him, although not sure if it was really him replying. Lot's of great feedback here. It's up to you how you apply it.
    Really good advice.

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  • Spiffychicken
    replied
    Originally posted by D.C. View Post

    Hey, I had Klaus Jasen at SVA as well!

    The thing that always sticks in my mind from him is akin to yours but it boiled down to "Assume the reader is a moron." You can have a complicated story but the storytelling itself needs to be so clear an idiot can follow it.
    Lol, a more blunt way to put it, but same idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rene A.
    replied
    "Have the humility to ask for feedback, but don't take it as gospel", from a text message I got back from Gary Vee when I screen shot some of my work and texted it to him, although not sure if it was really him replying. Lot's of great feedback here. It's up to you how you apply it.

    Leave a comment:


  • D.C.
    replied
    Originally posted by Spiffychicken View Post
    A long time ago I had a cartoonist named Klaus Jansen as a teacher. The greatest thing he taught me was this:

    You should be able to draw a 3 page comic with no words at all and hand it to someone who’s never read a comic before. If that person can’t get the jist of the story, you have failed as a storyteller. I’ll never forget that.

    My point is, you’ve got it backwards. In comics, the images come first not the words. The words aid the pictures not the other way around. Even if it’s a wordy comic, the images are still doing a hefty amount of the storytelling lift.
    .
    Hey, I had Klaus Jasen at SVA as well!

    The thing that always sticks in my mind from him is akin to yours but it boiled down to "Assume the reader is a moron." You can have a complicated story but the storytelling itself needs to be so clear an idiot can follow it.

    Leave a comment:


  • crazyjedichicken
    replied
    battlewraith makes a great point but the problem I have with the pages provided here is these pages are visually boring and confusing and the few bits of text or dialogue are boring as well . The reveal of the mechanical man for example , the visuals don't tell me its impressive and the script doesn't tell me anything, yet the audience is clapping? l have a very off beat taste in comic art but storytelling is story telling. Show don't tell is a great phrase for artists, but for cartoonists (writer, artist) maybe it should be "if you don't show, you have to tell" ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Maulsmash
    replied
    Originally posted by Spiffychicken View Post

    I came across animator's notes for KOTH once. One of them was a note to never make Peggy sexy. I also saw some for Rick and Morty, about head and nose shapes. Thought those were pretty cool.
    yeah, I used to have stacks of character sheets and notes from various shows from classes, notes like that are pretty common.

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  • Spiffychicken
    replied
    Originally posted by Maulsmash View Post
    Another teacher in my character design class worked on King of the Hill and other animated shows.
    I came across animator's notes for KOTH once. One of them was a note to never make Peggy sexy. I also saw some for Rick and Morty, about head and nose shapes. Thought those were pretty cool.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bryan E.Warner
    replied
    Originally posted by battlewraith View Post
    It says sample pages in his original post. I think that was something that threw people off--usually when people post sample pages here they post samples of sequential pages. These are literal samples from different parts of his book.
    So they are random images...Thanks..

    Leave a comment:


  • battlewraith
    replied
    It says sample pages in his original post. I think that was something that threw people off--usually when people post sample pages here they post samples of sequential pages. These are literal samples from different parts of his book.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bryan E.Warner
    replied
    Are these sample pages...just saying cause all in all it does not make sense...like random images...

    Leave a comment:


  • battlewraith
    replied
    Alright, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I think the OP may be right. This might simply be the wrong audience for this work. Given what we know about the project, he doesn't have the skill, time, or interest in doing what most of the people here would consider a proper comic book narrative. Ok, so what does that mean? The idea that he has to EITHER do a novel OR conform to a certain narrative style strikes me as false. He's self-publishing, not trying to break into the industry. So my advice would be to make it more of an artbook or illustrated storybook. His graphic design work was pretty good--use it to jazz up some of those panels. If a section is boring or complicated, just put in connecting narrative blurbs. It could be an illustrated pastiche of all kinds of visual elements. I think there are a lot of people that like that sort of thing, but it's not what you usually see on PJ.

    Show don't tell is great advice. It's something people should be able to do, but it shouldn't be elevated to a dogma. I went through that GI Joe Silent interlude piece. Masterfully done. Absolutely clear. I had no problem following the sequence of events. And I couldn't care less. Ninja abducts woman who escapes with the help of another ninja. Utterly forgettable. Ideas matter. Words are the gateway to complex ideas. I would rather read the OPs book, with all it's flaws, than 150 pages of stock, genre action shenanigans. Ghost in the Shell was one of my favorite mangas. Shirow would write footnotes in the gutters about microchips, or bullet ejection ports, or whatever. He might have little chibi versions of the characters commenting from the sidelines. Straight up telling people things-when it's appropriate-enriches the work.

    Ironically, this work reminds me a lot of the French painter Henri Rousseau. Rousseau was a self taught painter who was derided by the mainstream for his work looking childish or primitive. Rousseau obviously did not listen to their critiques. One day Picasso found one of Rousseau's paintings in a bin of used canvasses for sale. He and the other early modernists thought Rousseau was a genius and celebrated his work, which is why people know who he is today in contrast to any number of accomplished French painters that have faded into obscurity.

    "One of the problems that I have with some of the more visually dynamic comics is that it becomes difficult to get engrossed in the story itself. Because I am a writer I want the reader to concentrate on the story, dialogue, and characters and not get distracted by the optics."

    Taking this statement at face value, as opposed to whining or some sort of excuse, maybe this guy legit doesn't respond to visual art the way I do. Maybe there are people like him that are turned off by typical comics for this reason--they could be out there and they could be the audience for this work. Good luck dude.

    Leave a comment:


  • Maulsmash
    replied
    While we are sharing...
    I went to school for animation and one teacher was a blacklisted Disney animator and later worked on Anastasia and other none-Disney films. Another teacher in my character design class worked on King of the Hill and other animated shows. They were both pretty honest about how brutal and cutthroat the industry can be and both always said (among most my teachers) you can not take it personal. You cannot fall in love with your own work to the level that you become defensive and no longer hear the value in criticism. All in all it limits your progress. I am paraphrasing, but that is my take on their advice.

    Leave a comment:

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