Sample Pages from my Graphic Novel

[Trenor]

I think it might be finished. I just need to figure out how to publish: https://trenorart.webs.com/apps/phot...bumid=15923738

[humble-tomato]

generally you get more feedbacks if images are posted, not linked. Try imgbox.com and after uploading there, click the image to open in the browser and right click to "Copy image address". Come back here, put that address in between [IMG] and [/IMG]. Like this [IMG]youraddress[/IMG]

[Joseph Dredd]

Parts of it look absolutely phenomenal! Other parts of it look kind of flat and boring, imo, but that's only because you use the same camera shot for every panel.


One of the great things about using 3d models, which I'm assuming you did, is you can move the camera anywhere and everywhere until you find the most powerful, dramatic shots possible. Camera pointing down at the characters from a sweeping bird's eye view! Camera pointing up at the characters in a dramatic Spielberg shot!

If I were you, I'd watch some youtube videos on essential camera angles for film and re-tool some of the panels to have more impact.

[Trenor]

Parts of it look absolutely phenomenal! Other parts of it look kind of flat and boring, imo, but that's only because you use the same camera shot for every panel.


One of the great things about using 3d models, which I'm assuming you did, is you can move the camera anywhere and everywhere until you find the most powerful, dramatic shots possible. Camera pointing down at the characters from a sweeping bird's eye view! Camera pointing up at the characters in a dramatic Spielberg shot!

If I were you, I'd watch some youtube videos on essential camera angles for film and re-tool some of the panels to have more impact.

I did not use 3d models. I used a copy and paste method. One of the problems that I have with some of the more visually dynamic comics is that it becomes difficult to get engrossed in the story itself. Because I am a writer I want the reader to concentrate on the story, dialogue, and characters and not get distracted by the optics. For example, I love Bill Sienkiewicz's work but I sometimes have problems deciphering what the heck is going on in the story.

But I do see what you are saying and I was expecting that critique. Using copy and paste made it possible to paint in such detail without repainting every panel. It was a tradeoff situation because if I had done it any other way the quality of the art would have diminished or it would have taken me the rest of my life to complete.

[Trenor]

generally you get more feedbacks if images are posted, not linked. Try imgbox.com and after uploading there, click the image to open in the browser and right click to "Copy image address". Come back here, put that address in between [IMG] and [/IMG]. Like this [IMG]youraddress[/IMG]

I tried to post the pics directly before but it would not work. A moderator told me that this site has been experiencing technical problems and to try the link method. But I will try your suggestion. Thanks.

[Maulsmash]

I have to agree about the overall flatness. A lot of parallel shots are visually boring, breaking it up with a few dynamic visuals will help draw the reader in.

[humble-tomato]

I tried to post the pics directly before but it would not work.

You never post images directly. Nobody does or can. [IMG] method is only way and what everybody does here.

[Smitty]

Because I am a writer I want the reader to concentrate on the story, dialogue, and characters and not get distracted by the optics.

Then write a novel and leave comics alone. Comics #1 rule: Show, don't tell. If we can't follow your story without the words, your comic is a failure.

To post an image you need a proper address. If you write a letter to your mother and address it to "Mom" the letter comes back as undeliverable because there are 3 billion people in the world; you have to narrow it down. Address it to "Mom, 123 Main St, Apt A1, East Gumfuddy, IL. 12345-6789" and she'll get the letter because there's only one spot on Earth that fit's the address given.

There are billions of addresses on the web, you have to narrow it down. Don't use the address of your site or your photo album, use the address of your image. Go to your site, click on an image, copy the image address (Control+click-copy image address on a Mac. Right click? on PC?) and paste that address between img tags [img][/img] and get...



Your biggest problem is working digitally. This has nothing to do with working on a computer it refers to the fact that you employ disparate, unconnected bits of information that have nothing to do with one another. Your work needs to be analog which has nothing to do with hand drawn it means an uninterrupted stream of information where each panel leads to the next.

Looking at your album, nothing leads from one panel to the next, nothing leads from one page to the next. There's a panel of people, a panel of a pig, a panel of people, a panel of a pig. So? Who cares? They have nothing to do with one another. We know this because your pictures say they don't. You clearly state that the people and the pig have no connection to each other. Gun fires at nothing, pig falls down. Why? The gun and the pig have nothing to do with one another, we know because you said so. Guy squats with pig on his right. Why? Whatever he shot was to his left. You've told us repeatedly the people and the pig have nothing to do with one another... and now they're connected? How? Don't tell us how, SHOW us how.

I suggest you take a bath in silent movies. Learn to tell a story without words. Think of words, not as the icing on the cake but, as the candles; nobody eats the candles.

Just for fun, check out Larry Hama's "Silent Interlude" With the exception of the title, credits and a few computer screens, it's wordless.

[Trenor]

"Then write a novel and leave comics alone. Comics #1 rule: Show, don't tell. If we can't follow your story without the words, your comic is a failure."


Writing a novel leaves out the visual elements, which would be a shame. I not only wanted to control the narrative but the visual elements. Rather than describe I wanted to show.



"Your biggest problem is working digitally. This has nothing to do with working on a computer it refers to the fact that you employ disparate, unconnected bits of information that have nothing to do with one another.
Your work needs to be analog which has nothing to do with hand drawn it means an uninterrupted stream of information where each panel leads to the next.
Looking at your album, nothing leads from one panel to the next, nothing leads from one page to the next. There's a panel of people, a panel of a pig, a panel of people, a panel of a pig. So? Who cares? They have nothing to do with one another. We know this because your pictures say they don't. You clearly state that the people and the pig have no connection to each other. Gun fires at nothing, pig falls down. Why? The gun and the pig have nothing to do with one another, we know because you said so. Guy squats with pig on his right. Why? Whatever he shot was to his left. You've told us repeatedly the people and the pig have nothing to do with one another... and now they're connected? How? Don't tell us how, SHOW us how."


The samples provided in the link are from random pages that I felt gives the best overall picture of the different things that are happening throughout the story, rather than just a few interconnected pages that only give a limited view one particular scene. If you want to see how everything connects you would have to read the entire thing. If you are referring to how the panels connect in the page itself we are just going to have to agree to disagree on that one. I was very conscious to be mindful of the flow because one of the pet peeves that I have against most comic formats is when the scenes jump around too much and there is no sequential flow. The scene that you refer to with the pig makes much more sense in the context of the entire story.

[Trenor]

And as for not making every panel visually splashy, I will take that into consideration but it is also true that I am not trying to do spiderman or superman here. This is for a different demographic.

[humble-tomato]

I was very conscious to be mindful of the flow because one of the pet peeves that I have against most comic formats is when the scenes jump around too much and there is no sequential flow. The scene that you refer to with the pig makes much more sense in the context of the entire story.

We don't need to read entire story to see the panel to panel doesn't flow. It's not about scenes jumping around. It's not about camera angles if you want that approaches. A lot of great movies have flat shots/horizons. I like some aspects of your work too but It is very true your panels in that pig comic are very disconnected to each other. In that regard, the flow was very weak because of the disconnections.

[Trenor]

We don't need to read entire story to see the panel to panel doesn't flow. It's not about scenes jumping around. It's not about camera angles if you want that approaches. A lot of great movies have flat shots/horizons. I like some aspects of your work too but It is very true your panels are very disconnected to each other. In that regard, the flow is very weak because of the disconnections.

Can you show me in what page are you talking about? Or are you saying its every single panel? And do you mean disconnected because of the angles?

[Trenor]

I went back and checked my panel progression while imagining that I was looking at these pages for the first time, and as far as I could see what was happening could not have been any clearer -- although it also helps that I know the full context of the story. For example, a guy opens a door; he turns on the light; he puts his hat on the hanger; he enters the room. If I went any more sequential than that I would be accused of being boring.

I was fully aware that what I have been working on for the past four years was unusual - which is intentional because unusual is what I am into - but I did not realize that it was this unusual. It is true that I am not a Marvel DC guy and am not interested in trying to imitate any of that. I am not knocking any of that; it's just not what I am into, anymore. There seems to be an issue of personal taste going on.

Nevertheless, this conversation has been constructive because it is now clear to me that I do not fit into the comic scene, which makes sense because I was not trying to do a regular comic book. (Also, user "Smitty'"s hostile tone was also off-putting. I don't mind a little constructive criticism but that came off like an attack.)

I will leave my comments up for a little more so that the people who I have responded to will be able to see it and then I shall take my leave. peace.

[Maulsmash]

If you take a breath and step away from being defensive and taking it personal, I think you might be able to understand and at least consider the value of the critiques being offered to you.

[humble-tomato]

Can you show me in what page are you talking about? Or are you saying its every single panel? And do you mean disconnected because of the angles?

I mentioned it's the pig comic page in my post. I have a problem with your robot stage comic too. Same issues. Very disconnected panels.

I shall take my leave. peace.

Certainly your choice. But if your intention of coming here is to get TRUE & UNBIASED critiques, this is THE place. And Smitty's posts are the finest at that. Sure it can be off-putting to see your work getting dissected. But if you truly want to see how your work is perceived in other people's eyes, you gotta see the real meanings of the critiques behind the harshness.