2 Batman Thumbnail Pages

[brodywms]

Hello everyone. I am new here on the forums and would like to get as much constructive feedback on my work.

These are 2 thumbnail pages of Luke Barnett's Batman and Robin Story, "Wounds Darker Than Their Wings". These are only roughs, about 3"x5" so the penciling isn't as clean as it would be. These are pretty loose as far as detail goes as well.

I'm very new to comic art and cartooning, and am still in the beginning stages of learning perspective and having a tough time with it. I'm trying to be dynamic, but cant fully grasp the perspective issues, or exactly what I am doing wrong.

Please, rip these apart, do draw-overs, etc. I am amazed by the talent that exists here on this forum, and I only hope that by learning from all of you, I will get better.

[ajkarp]

What you call loose seems more rigid and stiff. (heh heh SETTLE DOWN BEAVIS)

[ajkarp]

Sorry about that last post. I'd like to start over. First of all, welcome to Penciljack ! I'm by no means an expert, but i'll try to help.

Thumbnail drawings are meant to be small pre sketches. They are made small so big design issues can be worked with an economy of marks. Consider the flow of the page. You want to direct your readers eyes around the page with your arrangement of darks and lights and lines and pattern.

Whatever you do, don't stop drawing. You'll be surprised how quickly you'll improve if you just keep at it.

[Caimano]

I don't know the Batman Robin story you choose, but from what I can see:

Page 1

Panel 1: I like the establish shot idea and i like the tilt idea too, but the everything is too "closed" nto the panel and there are a lot of tangents (they are considered mistakes) like the wheel of the car with the panel gutter at te bottom and the building at the top. Give to this panel more importance, make it bigger it has to be a good "overture" of your page.

Panel 2 and panel 3: I don't know if it requested by the script, but i find them too redundant...simlar position, same size...if you want o keep it just try to do an extreme close shot in the second...just an idea.

Panel 4: nothing to say, but try to chang a bit the "frontal" camera shot...because you used "frontal" in all the panel until now...a more worm or bird eye view could be an idea

Panel 5: don't understand very well, but it seems fine

Hope it helps

[Cody Andreasen]

Yeah, I'm having a little bit of trouble working out what's happening exactly.

The biggest thing I notice is that you're getting too tight and detailed within your thumbnails and it's hampering the dynamism of the pages/panels.

I would say, keep it loose...really loose. Don't worry about putting in all your shading and costume details and think more about how your page is operating as a whole.

Basically...I agree with ajkarp.

[brodywms]

Here is another attempt at getting better at the perspective on the first panel of the 2nd page. I understand what you guys are saying about being more loose and less details. It has been a challenge for me because I come from a portraiture background where I was doing things at sizes such as 19x24, 24x36 etc. So to go from that down to doing a full page of panels in a 3x5" space, its been a tough transition. Hopefully going in the right direction with this. To answer you questions about the two panels being the same. It calls for a close up of batman with a damaged cowl, then the next panel on him looking across the car to the passenger side without showing robin, as the injuries aren't supposed to be revealed until the next panel. Also the last panel is supposed to be a shot from batman's perspective, heading into the bat cave.

Thanks again for the help.

[Symson]

Welcome to Penciljack. i'm sorry i have to give you some lumps first time out.

PAGE ONE

The first panel has proportion and perspective problems. The storytelling is poor throughout. The main reason is evident here; not thinking about what you're drawing and what needs to be communicate. The Batmobile cannot possibly take up two lanes of a highway.

There should not be two close-ups of the same person back to back. There should be a medium shot to clearly show Batman is driving an snot had the awkward cropping of information.
Then you can follow with a close-up to show the detail of the mask damage.

Robin doesn't look ilk the is in a car or sitting down.

I don't know what id happening in the last panel.

PAGE TWO

I'm guessing this is a flashback. You need to communicate that visually with a soft cloudy panel border.

Anatomy is poorly excited and his cape look alike it coming out of his behind.

Second panel Robin looks like he is on a sidewalk with a grid in from of him.

[brodywms]

Thanks Symson. The idea wasn't to have the batmobile taking up two lanes, but rather this being like many bridges, having one side for one way traffic and a totally separate bridge section for the other. Also, I attempted to redraw the second page panel with Robin. Yes it is a flashback, but was unaware it needed to cloudy to show that, so thanks for pointing that out.

Also you mention perspective and proportion problems in the first panel of page 1. However you dont point out what they are. It would help be better if you explain those.

[Symson]

Your ideas have to be clearly communicated. Every line you put down has to communicate to the reader storytelling information.

Based on what you drew the striped line indicates two lanes. One lane would not have that line. Since there is no other bridge in this panel, you can't expect the reader to guess there is another bridge.

The vocabulary of comics requires that a flashback be communicated by doing something to the panel, just as in movies or television they use a soft focus or iris effect.

Since you write that these are thumbnails I didn't go into detail about the perspective and proportions. I would prefer to see what you do when yo do the final pencils or layout. I wouldn't want to be judged on my thumbnails, but since you are making a request I will comment.

You write that you are beginning to learn perspective. It looks like you are doing isometric perspective rather than 2 point perspective. There seems to be no common horizon line.

You don't seem to know how to hook up the various limbs to make a cohesive body. You're not thinking about forms. They just seem to be lines. In your second Robin redraw, the cape still looks like it's coming out of his butt, when it should be flowing from his shoulders.

I would say at this point you need to spend more time learning perspective and anatomy. Take some figure drawing classes to help with proportions and getting the human form correct

I hope this helps.