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Western Shootout aftermath

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  • Western Shootout aftermath



    This summer, I attended the Kubert School summer program for a week during the penciling / inking session and finished this piece (I did the tones when I got home though on the computer). I'm also working on the Kubert correspondence course and the first assignment is western themed, so I'm in that mode.

  • #2


    Just the inks and pencils. Any comments / constructive criticism is welcome.

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    • #3
      Lots to like here. Texture work on the ground and walls and the poses of the dead gunmen are spot on imo.

      I think the street is very narrow, but the signs say we're looking at the front of the buildings, which suggests mainstreet. It takes me out of the immersion. Maybe play around with different layouts of western towns and try to bring more variation in shapes and sizes, right now you just slapped texture on two long bricks

      thats all stuff that is not for realism, but entertainment purposes. Those variations give also opportunity for more complex compositions and additional backstory information.

      The character is somewhat androgynous, facial features say man, distance between eyes says woman, as says the hair, imo. The body is also showing a mix of proportions that is making me think super young boy or a woman. Don't know what you were going for here, just thought I mention it.

      last, a guide on where to crop your subjects.
      https://petapixel.com/2013/03/04/a-g...rtrait-subject

      And the hand looks like an afterthought, but the pose in general lets you not do much else. I would lose the hand completely with this pose, you wouldnt see it.

      ps, I like the way you hid your sig :d
      keep it up mate ,some solid work here
      "Censorship is legal vandalization of art" - Urban Dictionary
      |LHW Bottomfeeder|
      PJ Sketchblog
      petethacreepofficial

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Pete Tha Creep View Post
        Lots to like here. Texture work on the ground and walls and the poses of the dead gunmen are spot on imo.

        I think the street is very narrow, but the signs say we're looking at the front of the buildings, which suggests mainstreet. It takes me out of the immersion. Maybe play around with different layouts of western towns and try to bring more variation in shapes and sizes, right now you just slapped texture on two long bricks

        thats all stuff that is not for realism, but entertainment purposes. Those variations give also opportunity for more complex compositions and additional backstory information.

        The character is somewhat androgynous, facial features say man, distance between eyes says woman, as says the hair, imo. The body is also showing a mix of proportions that is making me think super young boy or a woman. Don't know what you were going for here, just thought I mention it.

        last, a guide on where to crop your subjects.
        https://petapixel.com/2013/03/04/a-g...rtrait-subject

        And the hand looks like an afterthought, but the pose in general lets you not do much else. I would lose the hand completely with this pose, you wouldnt see it.

        ps, I like the way you hid your sig :d
        keep it up mate ,some solid work here
        Thanks for the feedback!

        1. I thought the street looked to narrow too, so glad to have confirmation.
        2. I agree about the variation too. I should have varied the tone and textures and heights.
        3. as far as the androgyny goes, that was somewhat on purpose. I was thinking of a younger character, influenced by the comic Kid Colt or the movie Young Guns. I liked when Kid Colt was younger looking as opposed to the later comics when he started looking older. It was supposed to be male, but I see how it could be confusing or ambiguous. I hadn't really worked out the backstory, so it's undecided at this point.
        4. yes, that back hand could use some work. I wanted the palm of the hand resting on his other holstered revolver. I should take some reference photos next time. I think it works well in terms of rhythm and leading the eye through the scene though, so for that reason I'd like to keep it.

        Thanks for the cropping guide and I really appreciate you taking time to give thoughtful and helpful comments!

        Comment


        • #5
          The thing that I noticed first is that the buildings are very, very elongated. When foreshortening, things will be way narrower than you'd expect. The windows in the buildings are probably so big that it would be impossible to manufacture them today, let alone in the 19th century. Check out this tutorial by Thomas Romain:





          Here's the link to the whole page:https://kotaku.com/tips-for-drawing-...nds-1759168924

          Comment


          • #6
            The background looks like a bad high school stage set. It looks flat. There is barely room for anyone to walk under that overhang on the right. No one would build an overhang at such an extreme angle. That walkway should accommodate 2 or 3 people walking side by side. Think about the function of objects and backgrounds to get the size right.
            Jack Kirby Centennial Tribute Book is free to download.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by SebastianSz View Post
              The thing that I noticed first is that the buildings are very, very elongated. When foreshortening, things will be way narrower than you'd expect. The windows in the buildings are probably so big that it would be impossible to manufacture them today, let alone in the 19th century. Check out this tutorial by Thomas Romain:
              You and Romain are correct as far as the Z axis goes (forward/back) but, new world, urban sensibilities aside, I submit the bigger problem is the "X" axis (side to side.) That's not a "street" as much as a narrow walkway between buildings. A "street" has sidewalks and lanes for parking, traffic and turning. If Mr Yellow is 6" tall then two Mr Yellows on their side equal the standard 12 foot lane width. If the "street" starts where indicated, we'll barely see the buildings at our left and we won't see any buildings on the right. Any "street" behind Mr Yellow will be along the "X" axis.

              (D'oh! Ignore "all bldgs" note, thought I erased it)

              Donny may be in the "Old West" but as Pete notes, great big signs say Main St. We still need space for stagecoaches, wagons, horse traffic, sidewalks...


              Get sidewalks above the ground. Don't forget bodies are subject to perspective as well. Holsters are perpendicular to the ground, not parallel. Cowboy boots are scalloped opposite to what you've drawn. A Hat brim is a figure 8, build out from there. Hipster, skinny clothing won't be invented for another 150 years. While the Buntline Special existed, it did so largely as a trophy piece after a failed marketing ploy. No gunslinger that wanted to live would use a gun that long in a street fight. The slowest gun in the west would kill him before he could clear the holster.

              PaulMartinSmith

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              • #8
                Nice crits people.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Symson View Post
                  The background looks like a bad high school stage set. It looks flat. There is barely room for anyone to walk under that overhang on the right. No one would build an overhang at such an extreme angle. That walkway should accommodate 2 or 3 people walking side by side. Think about the function of objects and backgrounds to get the size right.
                  oh yeah. good point. I agree with you about the overhang on the right. thanks for suggestions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SebastianSz View Post
                    The thing that I noticed first is that the buildings are very, very elongated. When foreshortening, things will be way narrower than you'd expect. The windows in the buildings are probably so big that it would be impossible to manufacture them today, let alone in the 19th century. Check out this tutorial by Thomas Romain:
                    Thanks for pointing that out and showing the tutorial. You're absolutely right regarding the elongation and perspective.

                    Though, in my opinion, in the tutorial I actually like the incorrect version better than the accurate version. I think for storytelling purposes, it's a little clearer what the buildings look like, though the buildings on the right side definitely look too elongated. It's also a bit cleaner with less details. Perhaps somewhere in between the correct and incorrect version. After all, this is comics and I think reality sometimes can be stylized for artistic reasons.



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Smitty View Post

                      You and Romain are correct as far as the Z axis goes (forward/back) but, new world, urban sensibilities aside, I submit the bigger problem is the "X" axis (side to side.) That's not a "street" as much as a narrow walkway between buildings. A "street" has sidewalks and lanes for parking, traffic and turning. If Mr Yellow is 6" tall then two Mr Yellows on their side equal the standard 12 foot lane width. If the "street" starts where indicated, we'll barely see the buildings at our left and we won't see any buildings on the right. Any "street" behind Mr Yellow will be along the "X" axis.

                      (D'oh! Ignore "all bldgs" note, thought I erased it)

                      Donny may be in the "Old West" but as Pete notes, great big signs say Main St. We still need space for stagecoaches, wagons, horse traffic, sidewalks...


                      Get sidewalks above the ground. Don't forget bodies are subject to perspective as well. Holsters are perpendicular to the ground, not parallel. Cowboy boots are scalloped opposite to what you've drawn. A Hat brim is a figure 8, build out from there. Hipster, skinny clothing won't be invented for another 150 years. While the Buntline Special existed, it did so largely as a trophy piece after a failed marketing ploy. No gunslinger that wanted to live would use a gun that long in a street fight. The slowest gun in the west would kill him before he could clear the holster.
                      Hey, much appreciated feedback. Yes, the X-Axis. The street IS really narrow and measuring with bodys on the horizontal is a great idea.

                      Thanks for the draw over too:
                      1. I really love how you drew his right shoulder / sleeve. Nice, elegant folds on that one.
                      2. Great tips on the hat. That helps a lot.
                      3. And the boots, you're right about the scalloping. Good look.

                      4. I might not totally agree about the holster, because his leg is pushing forward and the holster ought to follow the contour of the upper leg. I could be wrong on that though.

                      5. and regarding the barrel. Yes, it is a bit long. I knew there were longer barrel Colt SAAs, but I did it mostly for stylistic purposes (it looks cool) and I wasn't sure about historical accuracy. Though, in researching your comments about the buntline special, I ran across this an article with this quote:

                      Naysayers may counter, "This is all speculative. Show us one single contemporary description of Earp ever using a so-called 'Buntline Special.'" Fair enough. After the O.K. Corral shooting, a hearing was held to determine if the Earp party should stand trial for murder. Tombstone butcher Apolinar Bauer was called to describe the incident on October 26, 1881, when Wyatt Earp "buffaloed" cowboy Tom McLaury. Bauer was specifically asked to describe the gun Earp used. In sworn testimony he answered, "It seemed to me an old pistol, pretty large, 14 or 16 inches long, it seemed to me." A Colt .45 with a 10-inch barrel measures exactly 15 inches overall. Now, let us return to Stuart Lake's notes to read how the first mention of the guns in question reads. There, in outline form it says "76 had met Ned Buntline, extra long guns, 1-Wyatt, 1-Bat, 1-Bill Tilghman, 1-Bassett, 1-Neal Brown - Specials - Walnut handles. "Ned" carved in. Colt's .45s, 10" barrel, 4" oversize." Here is a major revelation. Initially, Stuart Lake held the barrels of the "Specials" to be 10 inches in length. The description here matches the 1881 description by Bauer. This match is not approximate, it is exact.
                      ...
                      While a 12-inch-barreled Colt is cumbersome, one with a 10-inch barrel is remarkably comfortable to carry and shoot. Indeed, of the Revolver-Carbine sizes sold, the 10-inch is the size most conductive to being used as a sidearm and, when attached to its shoulder stock, a long-range "brush-popper." Colt records indicate such a model being shipped to S.H. Hart on May 12, 1882. I believe that until and unless the lost Charlie Hoxie gun surfaces, the 10-inch-barreled Hart revolver (serial number 28,830) is the closest we will ever get to seeing what Wyatt Earp's pistol was like. Why? Because S.H. Hart was a gun dealer in Tombstone when Wyatt Earp was gaining his renown.
                      http://home.earthlink.net/~knuthco1/...linesource.htm
                      Article originally published in Guns & Ammo magazine (December 1997) and reprinted courtesy of the author.

                      Indeed, though, in a gunfight he would have had to have it drawn already to stand a chance. That being said, overall I probably drew it too big in general scale as you noted in the drawover...

                      I'm new to the Western genre but I'm enjoying it. The grittiness of the stories, the gun fights and simplified technology are really fertile ground for storytelling. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and providing tips and for pointing out so many things I missed!

                      Last edited by Donny Yi George; 09-15-2018, 07:36 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Donny Yi George View Post
                        I might not totally agree about the holster, because his leg is pushing forward and the holster ought to follow the contour of the upper leg. I could be wrong on that though.
                        Just as we flip pages over and look at them from behind to check our drawings, so, too, can we check our perspective by flipping, spinning, rotating a scene in our heads.

                        If we spin the scene 90° and pull back slightly, we can now see both cowboy and reader. We know the reader is quite close to the cowboy because the cowboys feet are beyond the readers peripheral vision. At this range, if the cowboy lifts his leg at a 45° angle, the reader can no longer look down into the holster BUT he cannot look up into the holster either. To look up into the holster, the leg must lift another 10°-15°.



                        If you want to look up into the holster we need something to prop up the cowboy's foot: a boulder, coffin, strongbox or we need to drop the horizon down to the knees. Absent a reason for him to lift his leg at a steep angle, we're looking down into the holster

                        PaulMartinSmith

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Smitty View Post

                          Just as we flip pages over and look at them from behind to check our drawings, so, too, can we check our perspective by flipping, spinning, rotating a scene in our heads.

                          If we spin the scene 90° and pull back slightly, we can now see both cowboy and reader. We know the reader is quite close to the cowboy because the cowboys feet are beyond the readers peripheral vision. At this range, if the cowboy lifts his leg at a 45° angle, the reader can no longer look down into the holster BUT he cannot look up into the holster either. To look up into the holster, the leg must lift another 10°-15°.

                          If you want to look up into the holster we need something to prop up the cowboy's foot: a boulder, coffin, strongbox or we need to drop the horizon down to the knees. Absent a reason for him to lift his leg at a steep angle, we're looking down into the holster
                          I still say because the way the volume of the leg is coming forward, the holster being "hinged" near the hip would follow the contour of the leg and there'd be a tilt to it. So I got my buddy Taskmaster to pose for me. While it's not the same angle as in my drawing, you do see the backward tilt of the holster and some of the bottom of the holster.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There's already an amazing amount of critique in this thread, so I won't belabor the points already made. The one thing that I didn't see pointed out yet (my apologies if it was) was the people on the ground. When you're drawing scenes like this, it's always helpful to include a grid on the ground to help you size and space the people around. A couple of them would be very small or very tall based on how they're drawn now, and I don't think that was intentional. If you do a grid, it'll help you estimate the size better. You'd be surprised how much foreshortening you'll use in a piece like this.

                            Also, just because I recommend this every time I'm on the topic of perspective, there is an amazing tutorial set on Deviant Art about Perspective that absolutely blew my mind when I went through it. Betsy breaks it down and explains the concept in a really fantastic, easy to grasp and run with way, I'd highly recommend running through it:
                            https://www.deviantart.com/betsyillu...tive-488662055

                            Keep on rockin, mi amigo!
                            Update: Finally got around to cleaning up some of the thumbnail sketches and using better handwriting. People tend to groan when the subject of perspect... 01 Here's the Thing About 1 Pt Perspective
                            Aarpie! Art
                            My DevArt Account

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Donny Yi George View Post

                              I still say because the way the volume of the leg is coming forward, the holster being "hinged" near the hip would follow the contour of the leg and there'd be a tilt to it. So I got my buddy Taskmaster to pose for me. While it's not the same angle as in my drawing, you do see the backward tilt of the holster and some of the bottom of the holster
                              Your character is viewed through the human eye, the doll is distorted by a camera lens.
                              Your character is "human", the doll is a plastic object.
                              Your character is 6 foot tall, the doll is 6 inches.
                              Your character is several feet away, the doll is a few inches away.
                              Your character's hips face the viewer, the doll's hips face away.
                              Your character has a narrow stance, the doll has a wide stance.
                              Etc
                              Etc
                              Etc

                              Nothing in the photo compares to the drawing or the discussion. If you want them to compare you'll need to start with: a photographer that's 6 inches tall, a camera thats 1/4 inch tall and a planet 660 miles in diameter (half the distance between San Francisco and Denver)

                              Your perspective remains boo-booed.
                              PaulMartinSmith

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