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  • #16
    Originally posted by Beastie View Post
    I know where you're coming from, Flip, it just makes me sad that artists (as a group in general) are frequently given 'opportunities' to work without being paid. It does not appear to be an arrangement that arises too often with other professions.
    You know, without coming down on either side of Benflip's program, I'd say that it actually is an arrangement that comes around in just about every field where there are far more people trying to get paid to do the job than there is pay to go around. Actors, musicians, athletes, etc -- at the lower levels, they're all eager to work for no pay other than "exposure".
    http://www.brandonpalas.com

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    • #17
      I'll have to consider it. I'll have to sit down and actually time how long it takes me to pencil a page. As of now I really have no idea whether I could do 22 pages in 30 days while working 47 hours. If I can then it might be worth a go. =)
      ~ Jeromy

      Pummel: Light Heavy Weight - Wins: 4 Losses: 2 KO: 3


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      • #18
        To sell your 'Journeyman' a bit more, you may want to let people know what your print runs and market share are like. Exposure for a 100, or even a 1000 print comic is wholly different from 10,000 or more. In addition, you may want to clarify when a Journeyman becomes a Freelancer. As far as I can see by your definition, a freelancer is "established, published artist with credible work experience in the comic book industry." So if an aspiring exposure-getter does do one issue with you, would that consider him/her a "freelancer" for the next issue? Or does he/she need to do 2 or more consecutive issues before you pay? "After completion of their assignment" leaves a lot of wiggle room.

        While I appreciate your openness in your offering, there's still enough vague information to cause me alarm.

        And Mase, I've never heard of any intern position where they thrust you into the limelight. Radio interns get a little radio time, but they don't run the show. They're mostly in the background, learning from the sidelines...as with most intern positions. Medical interns don't do surgery. Even Marvel interns (from the stories I've read) don't go straight into writing scripts or do the managing editors job from the get go. They have to learn the ropes first. This posting is asking someone to draw an entire comic (or multiple comics) for free with no concrete determination as to when or if one will ever get paid.

        And benflip, I apologize for causing such a ruckus, but we get quite a few solicitations from 'publishers' who want to further their company on the backs of free artist labor, but even then, they usually have the decency to offer some sort of pay, even if it is a laughable back-end. I'd suggest rethinking your stance on 'journeyman' artists if you want to be considered a reputable publishing house.
        Check out Film Grouch!

        Wanna be uncool? Unhip? Unhung? Join the Monkey Revolution!

        Amadarwin's unauthorized, unscathing, unfinished biography.

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        • #19
          No reason to apologize. I appreciate that some will not see the value in the program. Enough have already expressed an interest in it to validate the concept. I can’t guarantee future print run quantities or that participation in the program will guarantee a wild and successful career in the comic book industry. We all manage our own careers and must invest the effort and energy required to reach any measurable level of success. That’s true for artists, writers, publishers – anyone. The reality in this industry is that many try at all levels, but very few actually make it, including publishers. We intend to fully support our creative contributors, whether they are an industry recognized freelancer or a journeyman. Time will tell whether or not we are considered reputable.

          Thanks!
          Flip

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          • #20
            Hello all,

            My name is Rob Rhine. I’m the creator and artist of The Maniacal Smile @ Fierce Comics, as well as the print director and Journeyman reviewer. First, I would like to thank everyone who has taken the time to reply to our post on the Journeyman program. This is quite an exciting program we’ve built and, with your posts regarding concerns and suggestions, we will make it even better. I cannot speak for all artists on this forum, but I do know from the MANY years I spent trying to break into the field that this program would be something I would be interested in. Not just because I am biased, but because I feel that I would draw no matter the amount I was earning and would kill for anything that would make me stand out. Not to say that I would continually do things for free, but as a way to break into the industry, doing an issue is worth a shot in my opinion.

            With this program, a Journeyman gets something that’s as difficult, if not harder to attain in this industry than a nominal or laughable paying gig… EXPOSURE. The word might not mean much to a lot of people, but take it from me - it is the most crucial thing needed aside from actual talent in whatever form of art you create. Through the program, you the artists, colorists and letters (which are definitely artists btw) gain insight into how to work under deadlines and with other people in the field, but above all else, your work will be seen nationwide at no cost to you other than your natural talents. I have self-published Maniacal Smile and it is quite a costly affair. Taking part in the Journeyman program will help you determine if you are indeed up to the task of getting an issue done in the timeframe given, if you work well with others, and if you can make your sequential art seamless from page to page.

            In short: weigh the pros and cons in your own mind. If you feel that this program doesn’t offer you what you feel would be worth your time, don’t apply. If you feel that after many years of practice and earnest trying you are ready for a shot at exposure, guidance, and a possible freelancer agreement with an up and coming publisher who knows you by name, Journeyman may be for you.

            Punch and pie.
            Rob Rhine

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            • #21
              Thanks, Flip and Rob, for your amiable responses. That alone speaks to the quality of the outfit you're trying to run.

              I didn't want to give the impression that your program was valueless, only that it has a good risk of not benefiting the artist at all. I wanted to point out the holes left with the vague wording and simple omissions in hopes you may rethink your stance, or at least bring more clarity to it. I still stand firm in my belief that if you are willing to pay an 'established' artist for a page, you should be willing to pay any artists for a page. After all, if you think their art is worthy to be printed, you wouldn't be talking to them to begin with. Exposure is a great thing, don't get me wrong, but gap between great exposure and barely any exposure is very wide, which could result in the artist getting screwed by semantics. Face it, exposure from a burgeoning publisher compared to, say, Marvel, or even Kitchen Sink Press, is vast. So worst case scenario, not only would the artist still be broke, but the exposure he gets would be worthless or of nominal value...at least he gets to put a credit on his resume, right?

              In sincerity, I hope the Journeyman stipulations work out for you (and more so for the artists willing to chance it), but unless it becomes more artist friendly, I'll have my reservations. With that, I wish you luck, and I'll stick my nose elsewhere.
              Check out Film Grouch!

              Wanna be uncool? Unhip? Unhung? Join the Monkey Revolution!

              Amadarwin's unauthorized, unscathing, unfinished biography.

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