Fat In The Middle

[Popninja]

The quick solution he is to take the [top] 3 people from the light heavy and put them in the heavies. End of problem, the LH doesn't have an issue getting use people into it. The top 3 LH have worked hard to get to that level and could hold their own against the heavies.

I agree with this. The top 3 in the LHW division are all primed and ready for the heavyweight division, especially considering that...well, I'll be quiet about that.

[ArmstrongArts]

Lol, I know where you are going with that Pop.

[ChrisMcJunkin]

I agree with this. The top 3 in the LHW division are all primed and ready for the heavyweight division, especially considering that...well, I'll be quiet about that.

Considering what...? I'm missing something.

Fine if you all really REALLY want to move the top 3 LHW up to HW right now I wouldn't argue against it.

[Juggertha]

I'm curious what Pop was going to say too.

Perhaps we can have a competition to finish Pop's sentance?

[scmarooney]

The quick solution he is to take the top 3 people from the light heavy and put them in the heavies. End of problem, the LH doesn't have an issue getting use people into it. The top 3 LH have worked hard to get to that level and could hold their own against the heavies.

I agree completely with this solution to the original question posed. I think I suggested something similar over in the Heavyweight thread a few days ago . In fact, if the mods think this is a good idea, they ought to just move up the top two Light Heavy matches and call them Heavyweight matches. You could either keep all 4 in the Heavies, or move the winners, permanently to Heavy and have the match-losers as 1 and 2 in the Lightheavy division the following month, with the winner of that match moving up (then you get three moving up, plus it looks pretty certain Morganza is going to be a heavyweight starting next month too.) That should flesh out the heavies a little more.

I also think that Oscar would be a great mod in any division and should definitely be kept in mind for that position should one of the other mods need a break. He's done a great job with the Thunderbrawl2 matches, and I think he could light a fire under some of the competitors from month to month.

[spidey976]

Right now the problem is that the heavies and lightweights are under populated, and if I was being honest I think that the Heavies are the real issue right now.

The heavy weight division is the jewel in the PUMMEL crown, or at least it should be. However, we have ALWAYS had trouble keeping guys in it for any length of time because ... well ... many of the guys who have been in the TOP tier are professional who have to come and go because of work and family commitments. A lot of the time it ends up being a commitment to their own work as artists that pulls them away. Whether it is Alex with Brace Falcon or Dave with Dust, guys go and chase the dream, and I respect that. What we also have had is a lot of guys who weigh in Heavy, compete for a month or two, and then NEVER come back. The same thing has happened to some guys that faught their way up, but with much less regularity. Lets face it ... the Heavyweight division should NOT be easy to get into. If it is then we have dropped our standards.

Now I will say this. As the Heavyweight commissioner I have NOT been cracking the damn whip here, but I shouldn't have to. We are adults here, and if you are going to compete you SHOULD be able to police yourself. With that also said I think that ANY movement up should be done by someone EARNING it with a victory, not because we hand it to them. SO where does that leave us ...

I think that if the PUMMEL community thinks it is necessary that we do something about the HeavyWeights then the WILDCARD matches should come back at LEAST between the LHW and HW division. Now if we do that I would consider doing it for NEXT month, BUT if we are I think that the ranked matches for the top 4 LHW and the 4 HW that are STILL in the division should be CANCELLED and the WILDCARDS should take their place. Now to ANYONE who complains that "Oh the ranked matches should still happen because if you can't draw two pieces ... blah blah blah" ... Honestly, I think you need to pull you head out of your butt. EVERY time we suggest something like this tonnes of guys whine that the ranked matches NEED to happen ... and in the end the SPECIAL event doesn't fly. I also think that we need to have ONE topic in case someone doesn't bring it that month. That way we get at least a few matches in.

Now I agree with ArmStrong ... either we do this ... or we stop bi&^hing about it. However, I WON'T keep doing the same mistakes over and over. It is frustrating and useless.

[turnbolt]

Dropping folks into light won't work simply because they will advance back to middle again...

Lightweight is an entry division for a reason. The lights come in new and raw and get polished and shined and go to middle.

Moving a few light heavies to heavy will work because they can't go anywhere else... but the light thing... we just have to come up with a way to encourage more participation and keep growing PUMMEL.

[ArmstrongArts]

ya the lightweights will take care of themselves. kinda. they can always challenge a middle of light heavy if they are looking to expand their horizons and take on someone different.

[AceOfHearts]

when i saw fat in the middle. I thought it was a commentary on the lifestyle of artists. especailly when i saw Armstrong posting. :P

[ChrisMcJunkin]

Concerning the idea of the WILDCARD match...can you or one of the other commissioners lay this out for me to understand? There have been other similar special tournaments in the past that I didn't take part in because I didn't have a clear understanding of what they were. The one where Bovey was the only one to show up for his match...I read some bit about it at one point, was unclear of the reward, and never looked back at the thread. I didn't get what Thunderbrawl was exactly until I started seeing the various rounds of character matches but had already decided I didn't have the extra time for it (but really wish I had had the time to take part now seeing how much fun it's been).

The main reason I'm asking here is because I'm in the number 2 spot in the LHW right now. I need to understand how this will effect me come next month if it is greenlit. What would I have to do in order to compete in this special tournament, who would I be competing against, and what would be the reward (I'm assuming advancement to the HW)?

[ChrisMcJunkin]

One other thing, considering consecutive no shows. I think it'd be a good idea as a penalty for a 2 month suspension and then having to reenter Pummel a class below.

I know stuff happens to everybody and whatnot but I think the no shows are potentially the most harmful thing to the competition atmosphere in the long run.

And if a consecutive no show decides to drop out and reweigh in later they should have a class subtracted from their vote in. If they reweigh in at HW, put them in at the bottom of LHW. If LHW, put them in with Middles, etc.

That way there would be much stronger consequences for not showing up. I just don't get the idea of being a week out from the deadline and not having started something. When I first joined up I thought just the idea of losing 4 spots in rankings would be more than enough to keep people from no showing. I've just been kind of surprised at how little that seems to effect some competitors' drives.

Also, I did really like the idea that for Thunderbrawl that Spidey had people send him their entries rather than it being posted in the forum. I think a lot of people in Pummel wait to the last minute to post their piece for fear of showing their hand. If the entries were sent to the commissioners then I think that may do away with the last minute postings. If people new they could draw their entry the first week, send it off and be done without worry of showing their hand, then I think a lot of the no shows would start earlier and actually get their piece done instead of procrastinating and not.

I know this stuff has been discussed a lot and my apologies for being the one to bring it up again but I just hadn't seen these specifics talked about.

[Juggertha]

I'd be fine with people sending me their entries. Especially the Light Heavies.

[ChrisMcJunkin]

I'd be fine with people sending me their entries. Especially the Light Heavies.

That's cool! I figured the commissioner for each division could maybe accept the entries. Probably would be cool to mention that over in the LHW thread so everybody knows. Thanks Juggs!

[Popninja]

And if a consecutive no show decides to drop out and reweigh in later they should have a class subtracted from their vote in. If they reweigh in at HW, put them in at the bottom of LHW. If LHW, put them in with Middles, etc.

Kinda defeats the whole point of a re-weigh in, doesn't it? May as well just drop them down a weight class, just on GP. If they were a heavyweight and no-showed a lot, then just drop them down to LHW. The only problem is that I can imagine you would get folks who would just say "**** it" and drop out altogether. But then, they aren't really contributing anyway, so who needs them?

I definitely stand behind stronger penalties for just blowing PUMMEL off. I get that it's just for fun and all, but I think if you commit, then you should be held accountable for not showing for your matches. There are too many people, myself included, who come up with excuses on the deadline day. It's shameful, and I'm guilty of it too. I used to be a real stickler over deadlines, but I've slacked off major over the last couple of years. Fun or whatever, if you sign on to participate, you should respect it and take it seriously.

[Orphangrinder]

The only problem is that I can imagine you would get folks who would just say "**** it" and drop out altogether. But then, they aren't really contributing anyway, so who needs them?

I agree -- it's certainly reasonable to have some sort of "discipline", like a suspension of a few months or something, but I'm currently putting together some pieces to weigh in so that I can compete against artists around my level and challenge myself. Whatever weight-class I end up in, if I got dropped down a weight class, I'm suddenly competing against inferior artists, and my whole motivation to compete is gone. Furthermore, it's not really fair to the middleweights who suddenly have to compete against a LHW, and have no chance at all of winning.

In short, in whatever arena, beating up on scrubs is no fun, and being the scrub that gets beat up on is no fun either.