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  • #16
    Hmmmm, seems like we had this discussion a little while back in another thread ? (Kind of like "deja-vu all over again"). I don't remember what the mods decided, but I think the status quo sort of remained. Dave Bovey and some others checked in and it was generally agreed (or seemed to be?) that a PUMMEL-wide reweigh-in would be a logistical nightmare, and might mean the end of PUMMEL as a going concern due to the chaos that would ensue.

    Last month there were 54 participants (a quick count) in PUMMEL (And not everyone showed up for their matches). I believe if we had a reweigh-in with even 3/4 of that number (75% of 54 is 40.5) it would be a total mess. I went over to take a look at the most recent weigh-ins and there is, on average, 22 votes for each weigh-in. That's not even half the number of votes most PUMMEL ranked matches get (my match with g0b1in last month got 45 votes). If there are suddenly 40-45 reweigh-ins in that area, I can easily see some people being weighed in with less than 10-15 votes, which is bound to make some people extremely unhappy (especially if they end up in a radically different class than they had been previously). I think unhappy participants will equal a lot of people dropping out, since this thing is supposed to have some element of fun to it.

    And that doesn't even address how you rank the classes once the reweigh-in is completed. With the intial seedings (where the weight classes didn't exist BTW) my understanding is that it was based upon votes recieved, and you were placed on a ranking-ladder from there based on the # of votes you got. Would you use win-loss records, or a random class seeding (and imagine going from top dog in your class to bottom of the list in the same class randomly)? And what happens with the inevitable competitor who was in a higher/lower class and now finds themselves in a division they never competed in before, where do you place them, at the top, or bottom? And what about people returning to PUMMEL, do they all have to reweigh-in, or do they get a pass and go with the initial weigh-in?

    There have been several cases of competitors re-weighing in, and at least one I can remember where things didn't turn out as he hoped so he took his ball and went home (quit/retired from PUMMEL). I can see that sort of thing happening en-masse in a PUMMEL-wide reweigh-in.

    Just one guy's opinion, but I think that keeping the existing structure is much easier than throwing everything out and starting over. One of those "better the devil we know than the one we don't" sort of things?
    HW(ret.):W42/ L29/KO16

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    • #17
      Those are some VERY good points, man. Really glad you took some time to think about the outcomes.
      My Deviant Art page
      My PUMMEL stats
      PUMMEL stats: 61 wins | 58 losses | 31 KOs
      2 Time Heavyweight Champion
      Light Heavyweight Commissioner

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      • #18
        I think overall there is one division too many. Combine lights and middles and call it welterweight. No one moves down so no one is pissed that they are now in a lower weight class. And if you need more heavies have like a draw off anyone can compete from any weight class and the top 4 make it in to the HW division. You'd have a large welterweight division, still a pretty big lhw which could also better renamed cruiserweight(since we're renaming stuff lol), and have 10 or so heavies.
        jessemunoz.com
        deviantArt | Twitter

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        • #19
          fudge... then I have to re-do my snazzy banners
          My Deviant Art page
          My PUMMEL stats
          PUMMEL stats: 61 wins | 58 losses | 31 KOs
          2 Time Heavyweight Champion
          Light Heavyweight Commissioner

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          • #20
            I think Jesse's idea is extremely workable. I will redo your banners if you can't be bothered to type in some fonts. :P

            Also I recommend a unique, weight-appropriate font for each new banner! :P
            Light Heavy W-38 L-15 KO-18
            deviant art
            tumblr
            PJ blog

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            • #21
              I think Jesse's idea is extremely workable. I will redo your banners if you can't be bothered to type in some fonts. :P

              Also I recommend a unique, weight-appropriate font for each new banner! :P
              Light Heavy W-38 L-15 KO-18
              deviant art
              tumblr
              PJ blog

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Spidey View Post
                I think the problem is that this system makes every champp automatically move up after 3 wins. Why can't he just stay at the top of his weight division and rule with an iron fist?
                I like this idea. Or making the championship match have the top 3 or 4 fighters.
                Marcelino | LightHeavy | Rank:
                Wins: | Losses: | Knockouts: | Months Champion:

                Middleweight
                Wins:23 | Losses:22 | Knockouts:12 | Months Champion: 3

                dA

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                • #23
                  It just seems to me like there are maybe more guys coming in that could possibly go into the Light Heavies but end up middles by only one vote. I know that happened to me and it's happened to others. I think it's safe to assume that's probably why it's filling so much.
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                  • #24
                    Oh *yawn* are we gonna hash this out every other month. We could just cut and paste the last thread into this one so I won't have to re type all the same stuff.
                    PuMMeL : Wins 9 --- Losses 11 --- KO 7

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Spidey View Post
                      I think the problem is that this system makes every champp automatically move up after 3 wins. Why can't he just stay at the top of his weight division and rule with an iron fist?
                      Originally posted by marcelino View Post
                      I like this idea. Or making the championship match have the top 3 or 4 fighters.
                      I don't like this idea. I was actually working up a response to the original post last night but never got around to posting it. I think 3 title wins is more than enough, taking anywhere from 3 months plus to obtain after spending months upon months actually fighting through the class to get to the top.

                      I also don't see how this would benefit the problem at hand as it would keep the LHW and Middles at the size they are now and then as more people got voted into those categories they would just continue to increase in size, becoming more bloated, because people wouldn't be able to move up to the next category.

                      My entire reason for working my butt off each month on my pieces is to get to the Heavyweight division. If you take that away, you'll take away any desire I have to continue competing.

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                      • #26
                        It doesn't seem that unbalanced. 5 LW, 10 MW, 10 LHW, 5 HW matches. Basically a normal distribution. Maybe the commissioners could suggest a re-weigh for people who are obviously misclassed after a couple of fights. Or maybe the new fighters from each division should have a placement match for their first month to see how they rank?
                        Stats
                        Middleweight ►ω:10 λ:9 κο:6◄

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                        • #27
                          Well I also don't want to make it easy to move up. Once everyone is a heavy, then what?

                          I've been thinking more about what Spidey said and that seems to make sense. Who says you should move up to the next division just because you're at the top of your current one? Maybe a re weigh-in after three championships?
                          Marcelino | LightHeavy | Rank:
                          Wins: | Losses: | Knockouts: | Months Champion:

                          Middleweight
                          Wins:23 | Losses:22 | Knockouts:12 | Months Champion: 3

                          dA

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by marcelino View Post
                            Well I also don't want to make it easy to move up. Once everyone is a heavy, then what?
                            I don't agree with the assessment that obtaining three title bouts is an easy task. The second part doesn't make sense because by your logic (that being that the weight classes are such a breeze to shift between) because if it were so then everybody would be a heavyweight by this point. The vast majority of people are in the class that they were originally voted in. Others have moved up by working their butts off for a consistent period of time.

                            Originally posted by marcelino View Post
                            I've been thinking more about what Spidey said and that seems to make sense. Who says you should move up to the next division just because you're at the top of your current one?
                            The rules of Pummel say just that. This isn't something that was just decided recently and is now being reevaluated. This is the first time I've seen this topic broached, don't put it across as though the 3 wins=escalation thing isn't a set in stone piece of Pummel.

                            Originally posted by marcelino View Post
                            Maybe a re weigh-in after three championships?
                            I think that'd be a pretty bold slap in the face to someone who has earned their allotted number of Title Bouts and I'd be hard pressed to imagine someone wanting to return to the competition if their reweigh-in caused them to be thrown back into the bottom of their class or one below.

                            But hey that could be a good way to trim some of the fat off the middle. Rather than adding to the Heavies and Lights you could just invite people to exit from the LHW and MWs. That's thinking outside the box.

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                            • #29
                              I think the point is that after you've won 3 title matches in your class, you should be able to weigh in at the higher level.
                              My Deviant Art page
                              My PUMMEL stats
                              PUMMEL stats: 61 wins | 58 losses | 31 KOs
                              2 Time Heavyweight Champion
                              Light Heavyweight Commissioner

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                              • #30
                                I just got to the LHW's and it wasn't like I did it in a week or two....I had to fight my butt off to get there (here).If a person can hold the top spot for 3 months straight then I think he should be able to move up...besides...what's really the pont of the competition if not to move up? It's not like we're getting money or a comic contract or anything...that's really one of our only rewards for doing this (not counting bragging rights).
                                If the 2 middle weight classes are getting bloated....then so what? That just means we all get to watch that many more great artwork posted on the boards...and more of us are actually pushing ourselves as artists to get better at what we do....
                                DANN
                                Heavyweight Pummel Stats: Wins: 27 / Losses: 11 / Knockouts: 16

                                www.dannphillips.com

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