Open Projects Forum Discussion

[Spidey]

The one thing that, according to me, made it worth doing the assignments was that you could count on some THOROUGH and GOOD critique. I'll gladly drop Loston's name.

Not just Loston alone. Most of the time Loston's in depth crit inpired following posters to do the same. What I liked the most about CM is everybody's different take on a project, especially the design ones. I also wouldn't mind helping mod the CM forums.

[Ra Havok]

mod the CM forums.

Let's team-up!

[Spidey]

Team Discovery Channel!
I actually wouldn't mind at all, but obviously completly up to Terry when the CM is up.

[G-man_2000]

I wanted to drag some thoughts over here from the Incomplete thread and have them open for discussion (*gasp*, the thread title)

1) Incorporating the Writing Lab somehow. This has been discussed before but a conclusion was not reached.

2) This forum is for fun and exercise, but the projects must still be worth while and well crafted to elicit better participation.

3) I've brought up voting of any kind once before and it didn't go over well. I'm all for nominating a script writer and then getting feedback, yay or nay, a simple poll, but no competition for Who Writes What or Who Draws What.

4) One project at a time. This is good to keep interest at a maximum but participation would be a minimum. Which is more important to you guys? Honestly, it's not like the door's being beaten down to start up projects so cracking down and telling people "Great idea, when the current project is done, it's all yours" is not going to break my heart.

That's all for now.

Maybe some more reference materials, don’t have to be near prefect like Bruce Lee did for Conan, but a little more than one sketch would help.

[xadrian]

Maybe some more reference materials, don’t have to be near prefect like Bruce Lee did for Conan, but a little more than one sketch would help.

Could you give me an example of something that lacked reference?

[Deunen]

There was a lot of reference material available for the Indiana Jones project. There aren't alot of refrences for the Ironman project but that particular project is kind of loose and I look at it as a work in progress /just for fun. If you need a particular reference, I've noticed if you just ask people will definetly help you out. I've only been involved with the Indy and Ironman projects so I don't know how the others were handled.

I back the idea of having the Writing Lab involved. I say just let them worry about the story side of things. Maybe have Xadrian speak for the Fusion section, throwing in opions/ideas. I would imagine the Fusion section worrying about assigning the jobs, getting pages done. I think this would spark more interest in the Writing Lab because there would be hope that a particular story would get drawn.

[Bruce Lee]

One of the things about these jams that will always be the rub is participation. There's always going to be the risk of someone dropping out, disappearing off the planet (or at least the web), or finding themselves too busy with other things to complete their share of the workload. It's a given. This isn't work for hire or for publishing, so the likelihood is to be expected. That said, I think there are many things that can be done to improve participation.

One thing would be to simplify the jam. Fewer pages, fewer designs, fewer people involved. That will help keep the chaos down, and things rolling along. Another thing to consider is to give the editor of the jam the right/power to refuse talent. (ie: make it known that the editor has the ability to do so, with provocation. If someone failed to get their work in on a previous jam, then the editor/co-ordinator of the jam should have the right to refuse an individual's participation on a current jam. I'm not saying this should be something that is automatic, but it would be something of a motivator in getting the work turned in on time, and would help keep current jams moving along at a good pace.

Another thing to do is to keep communication going. On the Conan jam, I frequently called for "meetings" (pow wows) via yahoo messenger chats. This kept everyone in the loop on where things were. Though this sort of thing isn't necessary, it's probably a good idea to keep in touch with all the participants as to their progress.

To keep things moving along, an editor might assign a series of deadlines. Maybe the page layout is due in a week to be subject for approval, followed by finished pencils due for approval the following week. If the penciller's first deadline is blown, that may be a good indication that the second deadline is going to be blown too, so it's probably a good idea for the editor to hedge his bets. He should already be planning a back-up replacement penciller, to take over should the original penciller blow his second deadline. To save time, the editor could already ask the potential replacement to be working on his or her layout. A layout isn't that much work to ask of anyone (at least it shouldn't be a big investment of time), so even if the original penciller comes through and makes his original deadline, the potential replacement penciller is only out one layout. It's no great tragedy. But having that layout ready will really be a leap out of the starting gate should the original penciller fail his or her duty.

A deadline is a deadline. It should be enforced, or it means nothing. Without enforced deadlines, things WONT get done in a timely manner. Simple fact.

The last thing I'll bring up is: subject matter. Let's face it, the more popular the subject matter, the better your participation is going to be on these projects. It's common sense. Before starting these jams, it's something to consider right off the bat.

Anyway, I hope to find some time to launch a new jam sometime in the near future. Right now, work is keeping me busy, and I don't have the proper time to dedicate to such a project. That's me being realistic. Before anyone attempt to participate, they should evaluate their schedules and weigh whether or not they have time enough to accomplish the tasks that might be asked of them. Even if a jam might be the coolest jam ever, if you don't have the time for it, you shouldn't kid yourself. THERE WILL BE OTHER JAMS AND OPPORTUNITIES TO PARTAKE IN THE COOLNESS. You'll only be holding others back if you go in thinking you can somehow get it done in spite of your current responsibilities. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE TIME, DON'T SIGN UP! It's something that should be taken into considered by everyone who is thinking of participating. Be REALISTIC.

Later all,

Loston

[penciljack]

About the critical mass:

The one thing that, according to me, made it worth doing the assignments was that you could count on some THOROUGH and GOOD critique. I'll gladly drop Loston's name.

So, unless there are people that are willing to give themselves a 100% when it comes to letting the 'students' know where they stand, I don't think Critical mass could ever be a success.


By the way, I'm all for in-depth C&c. I think everyone knows this. I wouldn't mind helping out if Critical mass were to be defibrilated.

This really isn't the forum for this, but IMO our mistakes with the first few iterations of Critical Mass was precisely that we held up moderator criticism as some sort of "prize." That's not going to happen in the future. We're going to focus on simpler projects and not take any sort of "school" approach. Plus, it's going to be more member oriented as opposed to moderator oriented.

[penciljack]

1) Incorporating the Writing Lab somehow. This has been discussed before but a conclusion was not reached.

Part of the appeal of many of the "original" Art Jams was that the participants could "pick" what they got to draw, within reason. That was good, to an extent, but you pretty much knew which Jams were gonna get the most participants.

I think we will involve the Writing Lab somehow, and we'll probably rethink our "focus" for these projects a bit. For example ... can a "project" not feature a single writer, inker, penciller, letterer and colorist? Do we have to have one each per every page?

3) I've brought up voting of any kind once before and it didn't go over well. I'm all for nominating a script writer and then getting feedback, yay or nay, a simple poll, but no competition for Who Writes What or Who Draws What.

I'm not sure how I feel about voting yet. But I agree I don't like the idea of competitions. I think that's counterproductive in a forum that is deliberately ant-competition and is instead collaborative.

One project at a time. This is good to keep interest at a maximum but participation would be a minimum. Which is more important to you guys? Honestly, it's not like the door's being beaten down to start up projects so cracking down and telling people "Great idea, when the current project is done, it's all yours" is not going to break my heart.

I don't want to limit the projects in this manner. My heart's desire is to see a forum FULL of ongoing projects. I think we just need to fine tune our project subject matter and our processes.

I think I've said it before, and though I don't want to drag a current project down, I'll say it again - we probably want to avoid the overuse of "alternate universe" or "redesigned" characters. For example, this "Iron Men vs. the Zombie Jedi" thing was probably something we should have avoided. As Loston hinted, having to work out too many noodly details can suck the fun and momentum right out of a project.

[Bruce Lee]

This really isn't the forum for this, but IMO our mistakes with the first few iterations of Critical Mass was precisely that we held up moderator criticism as some sort of "prize." That's not going to happen in the future. We're going to focus on simpler projects and not take any sort of "school" approach. Plus, it's going to be more member oriented as opposed to moderator oriented.

I've got to say that I'm very curious to see if your new incarnation of CM fairs any better than your past versions. To call the past versions of CM "mistakes" though, is absolutely unfair, I think, and feels a little like a jab thrown my way. In my opinion, the board was very much a success, even if you might think differently on the matter, Terry. People learned something, and fun was had. I don't know how anyone could ask for more than that. It's your dog and pony show though, and you know what you're after in terms of "success." I wish you whatever success you feel was missing.

Loston