No one seems to have mentioned it but just an FYI, those two "lesbians" were professional wrestlers. I recognized one of them as Looney Lane from some documentary on wrestling I saw a year or so ago.
I don't think they crossed the line at all. They've done so much worse than this in the past. I'll take any show where I get to look at halfway decent looking girls than a show where I have to see Mae Young strip.Originally posted by TheFightingFoetus
So...anybody else offended by WWE's RAW tonight, or am I the only person who thought they've crossed the line?
Well, first off, Jamal and Rosie aren't black. And one of the chicks was a brunette, but I nitpick so I'll move on. You obviously haven't watched any previous RAWs. The Island Boys have been assaulting everyone in the WWE for the last few months, from hot lesbos to The Big Show. It's not new, it's already been done and in worse fashion.Originally posted by TheFightingFoetus
If you didn't see RAW, basically what happened is, they had this lame storyline about some "Hot Lesbian Action", in which they kept showing these two girls being extremely friendly, and then after a while, they bring them into the ring with Eric Bischoff. He entices them to do a bunch of stupid lesbian stuff, that I guess appeals to kids who've never seen this before.
After they go through all of his motions, he has two giant black wrestlers assault these two blonde chicks from behind, and they beat the crap out of them for no other reason, than to get off on beating these girls.
Now see, here's where you pissed me off. WWE is NOT responsible for what kids are watching past 9:00pm. They shouldn't be responsible for what kids are watching any time of the day, but people seem to think that they are. I think that's crazy. The kids you speak of, growing up without parental supervision, shouldn't be watching television. If a parent is so concerned with what their children will watch in their absence, then they need to get rid of the TV. If not, then they aren't concerned and therefore are not good parents.Originally posted by TheFightingFoetus
They yuck it up, and I'm watching, thinking "well, here's where the hero comes out, and mete's out some justice."
But it never happened. They just show these guys all leave the ring, having a blast, and I'm thinking, "what about the kids growing up, without parental supervision?"
Is this new? Haven't they been doing this forever? Why are we getting offended now? I TOTALLY DISAGREE with the stereotypically racist thing because like I said Jamal and Rosie aren't black. Had two hulking white boys walked in the ring and demolished some lesbians, would we be reading this thread right now? WWE has been roughing up girls forever. It's part of the business. Don't be a hypocrite. Violence is violence. If you are watching WWE, you JUST CAN'T get all riled up over what happened tonight. The Dudleys put Mae Young and every other woman, including Lillian Garcia, through tables. To tell you the truth, watching an 80 year old woman getting powerbombed through a table off the top turnbuckle is way more shocking than watching two obvious young slutties get splashed from the top turnbuckle.Originally posted by TheFightingFoetus
What exactely is going wrong with society, when we're now packaging violence against women, in the most stereotypically racist form imagineable, and telling viewers that some people get off on violence against chicks? And look, the bad guys get to laugh as they leave, without anybody to stop them.
Great stuff, WWE!
I think I made my point anyway. You can't consider one form of violence as more moral. If you are watching wrestling, as it is today, you are not in the position to judge what's good violence and what is offending violence.
You know what happened? It evolved. Folks realized that rather than watch two grown men fake punch each other as the stomp the canvas that there needed to be more. Now, don't get me wrong, I am a classic wrestling fan myself, but the bottom line is that we classic wrestling fans are the minority. Jim Bob and Chester Wheatcakes are the majority and that's what they wanna see. Do I like that fact? No, but honestly, with the likes of RVD, Chris Benoit, Brock Lesnar and so many others wrestling good matches every week on RAW, Smackdown, Velocity and Heat, I get my fill of good wrestling week in and week out.Originally posted by TheFightingFoetus
Whatever happened to putting on some good old wresting matches? What's with all this bullshit, and 5 minutes of lesbians in a ring, before their beaten from behind?
Sorry about how long this is, but I can't stand when people get on a soapbox about violence against women on a television show that is 100% violence all the time. From back when Miss Elizabeth got roughed up by Randy Savage, to Sensational Sherri being abused by Brutus the Barber Beefcake, violence against women in the WWE is not some radically new thing. It's been there forever.
I'm done now.
I haven't watched the stuff in nearly ten months now. So I only have a vague idea of what is goin on. Learned more in this post then what i've caught on tv by chance. I hate what wrestling has come to. I saw the other night that the one gay guy proposed to what used to be Billy Gunn. That was stupid. It won't be the same as it was now that stone cold is gone.....
or maybe they just need to shoot the writers. LOL
"I don't dream at night, I dream all day; I dream for a living." Steven Spielberg
I figured the two 'lesbians' were wannabe wrestlers, or something.
Were your parents able to watch you all the time? And what about the kids who have irresponsible parents, who don't care what their kids watch and see?Now see, here's where you pissed me off. WWE is NOT responsible for what kids are watching past 9:00pm. They shouldn't be responsible for what kids are watching any time of the day, but people seem to think that they are. I think that's crazy. The kids you speak of, growing up without parental supervision, shouldn't be watching television. If a parent is so concerned with what their children will watch in their absence, then they need to get rid of the TV. If not, then they aren't concerned and therefore are not good parents.
There *are* kids watching this stuff, and not all of them have parents, either. Even the most concerned parents aren't gods, and can't stop all of the outside influences from reaching their kids.
I view it as a cop out, that people use that "blame the parents" arguement. Which is why we now have teachers coming on television, to explain why elementary school kids are now referring to girls as bitches and ho's. (I teach children's art from time to time, and what those kids say, and how they act is just damn scary sometimes, in a children of the corn sort of way.)
It's too easy for companies like the WWE to peddle garbage, with no thought whatsoever to the content, beyond sex and violence, sex and violence.
Why should they change, when they know that millions of people can be manipulated so easily? Why bother trying to make gold, when the people will settle for coal?
Maybe if the WWE had shown some consequences for their actions, I wouldn't have made this thread. But no, not nowadays, we have to innundate society with the worst shit, which maybe won't affect us adults, but seriously, your living in a dream if you think that kids aren't seeing this, or that it's not destructive to them.
So, Jamal and his friend aren't Zulu's, but they aren't white, are they? They sure look like their from the islands to me...And no, their antics are probably not new, but I don't tune in that much.Well, first off, Jamal and Rosie aren't black. And one of the chicks was a brunette, but I nitpick so I'll move on. You obviously haven't watched any previous RAWs. The Island Boys have been assaulting everyone in the WWE for the last few months, from hot lesbos to The Big Show. It's not new, it's already been done and in worse fashion.
And assaulting the Big Show, no matter how, is different than glorifying a blind-side assault against two tiny women, who in the story, are enticed into the ring with one man, and then attacked by the other 2 from behind for jollies.
It's one thing to use violence as a means to convey a story, but when it's used irresponsibly, merely to tittalate people, I have a big problem.
So, if you tune into watch wrestling once today, than you have no moral authority to stand on?I think I made my point anyway. You can't consider one form of violence as more moral. If you are watching wrestling, as it is today, you are not in the position to judge what's good violence and what is offending violence.
Also, I can consider one form of violence more "moral". If another wrestler had ran into that ring, and beat the hell out of those jokers, then I wouln't have had as much of a problem here.
Violence is a tool in storytelling, but it has to be handled right. I'm not going to root for Dr. Doom taking over the world, but I will root for somebody kicking the crap out of him, or Saddam for that matter.
I think you may have just made my case for me...
Like I said, this whole thing is fake. I mean, I know they didn't just go into a Wal-mart, and say, "hey, would you lesbians like to do stuff on tv?" WWE Candid camera? No, I know this stuff is all scripted...
My problem is with the script. My question is only this, are we at the point in time, where we no longer want to see heroes step up and avenge evil acts?
That's all I want to know.
My arguement about the kids stands, but I do realise that it is on cable, and it is after 9, so I'm not going to say they should be censored, or anything like that.
I haven't watched wrestling since Ric Flair was young. that's a long time, my friends. so anything I have to say about lesbian action and beating up women "crossing the line" would sound preachy and old fashioned to you guys.
My personal "line" was crossed about fifteen years ago
And nobody had a problem last week when Bubba put Molly through a table? Or how about for that matter when the Dudley Boys put other women through tables?
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Don't hunt what you can't kill!!! - Shawn Michaels
I donít want to come off ďold fashionedĒ either but I think some good points were brought up.
My undergrad degree was in communication studies and my masters degree is in Instructional Technology. What doesnít all that mean? It means Iíve spent way to damn long in school, and Iíve spent whole semesters studying the effects of media on kids and young adults. Iíll tell ya, the whole topic gets really messy.
Is it bad for kids to watch that sort of crap on T.V? Is it bad for kids to buy comic books drenched in young male power fantasies with barely dressed female supporting casts with boobs big enough to clog a toilet? I think it all depends on what other influences the kids have in their life.
It is wrong to take the popular stance ďWell if you donít want to watch it, then just donít. But donít make an issue of it.Ē Itís like saying ďIf youíre in the dessert and you donít want to die of heat, donít look at the sun.Ē Well if the sun is affecting your environment, then it doesnít matter if you acknowledge it or not. It will affect you in some way.
Overall, the most important thing is to debate it and talk about it. If some of us think that they crossed the line (and I do), and some of us donít, thatís fine. Whatís important is that we respect our different personal ďlinesĒ and find a way to make both happy. I will say this though, if someone wants to debate the effects of this sort of crap on kids that donít have a good family infrastructure make sure you do your homework and that your kids pick their friends very carefully.
Personally, Iím sure that my wife would kick my ass if she found we watching two lesbians being beaten up my two big black guys. So I guess they can film then next show at my house. I can see it now, ďHoly crap, sheís got the remote and is bashing his head in! Look at the blood! Bring out the half naked lesbians!Ē