the romance factor

[Fallenangel]

*sighs*:
assumptions in regards to what I meant
pretty much everywhere where you said "if you mean"
you were way off on what I meant.

So.... you did a poor job at communicating your ideas, and if you don't care enough to respond or at least show me were i was "wrong" in understanding your ideas...well...that's again makes this discussion pointless.
You believe in something just because it's insert here any possible reason, that doesn't mean that your belief, is the true representation of reality.

I'm being irritable
it's jack to do with you; ergo not personal
be well.

What?



Dude, if you have ideas/opinions or whatever, and you choose to share those ideas with other people, you should at least have the respect for those who do not agree with you.
Simply saying "you don't understand me...that's not what i meant...and etc." in response to everything, is...well...stupid.

I only keep writing here because i don't want people (especially kids) here on PJ to be influenced by this "love story".
Because i already seen enough of those "i love what i do...and you can't say i'm doing something wrong because...blah, blah, blah" cases over the past few years, and frankly i'm getting sick of it.

To end this on your level of response i would say: "Good day to you sir!...I said good day!"

Cheers,
Fallen.

[qrowdad]

I took Whune to mean when you are in the zone and relaxed you love what you are doing and you do better work, when you are doing better work you enjoy the challenges of making art and get better and that much closer to it being professional quality.

Also when you make art that you are passionate about dare I say it "love" what you are doing it shows and it's infectious like someone who has a really heartfelt smile or laugh, it makes you smile or laugh too.

There are tons of artists who are technically amazing but their work has no soul, If your work conveys real "love" for what you are doing it communicates on a more satisfying level. I am happier with my own work when it feels genuine, not forced like so much commercial work I have to do to make a living.

I say 'rock on' Whune -follow your bliss and go make something amazing!

[Fallenangel]

Again in my opinion you are mixing different things.

I took Whune to mean when you are in the zone and relaxed you love what you are doing and you do better work,

EDIT: I don't know what you meant by "zone" so i tried to respond to it as far as i understood it.
It is called the "comfort zone", you simply do the things that you personally like you do them when you like it and how you like them. Of course you would like it more than doing something "out of your personal comfort zone" - something that you can't relate to or simply do not know how to draw.
It is even logical that things that are in your "comfort zone" would look better (especially to you)...you simply spend more time on them, drew them more times and etc.

On of the trademarks of most professionals is consistency, a real professional's work in my opinion shouldn't rely on such things as "comfort zones", "favorite music playing in the back ground", "feeling good/not feeling good" etc. if you can draw a face it shouldn't matter if you like it or not, you simply know how to draw it. Also, you should be able to always produce your "better"/"best" work, or at least to try and produce the best work you can.

when you are doing better work you enjoy the challenges of making art

There are enjoyable challenges and there are simply things that one has to do. I don't know how someone can enjoy studying bone structure and anatomy or doing 200 hand studies every 2 days?!

and get better and that much closer to it being professional quality.

The professional quality of your art shouldn't depend on how "happy or whatever" you are in this specific moment in your life.
If it does depend on something other than your skills and knowledge, you are not a professional, because it means that if someone would take/you'd loose that "Love" you"ll loose the ability to produce "professional quality art".

Also when you make art that you are passionate about dare I say it "love" what you are doing it shows and it's infectious like someone who has a really heartfelt smile or laugh, it makes you smile or laugh too.

I absolutely agree with you here. But it looks better (especially to you as it's creator) because you drew this thing more (it is in your comfort zone), you practiced drawing this/in this style more, you spend usually more time on stuff that you like than you don't like and etc...

There are tons of artists who are technically amazing but their work has no soul, If your work conveys real "love" for what you are doing it communicates on a more satisfying level. I am happier with my own work when it feels genuine, not forced like so much commercial work I have to do to make a living.

Show me an example of those who are technically amazing but supposedly do not have a "soul"...?
btw the definition of what is really a "soul" in a piece of art is a personal matter. You can show me a blank canvas and say it has a "soul" that's why i like it, and on the other hand you'd say to me that Boris Vallejo's paintings don't have a "soul" and you don't like them.

It is again your personal belief and interpretation of what you like/don't like based on what you consider art, it has nothing to do with quality, skills, and professionalism of the artist.



I"ll say it again, "Passion" and "Love" are crucial for an artist, but for some that is the only thing that matters, when for others it is simply one of many things.

There is nothing wrong with producing art just in the way you like it, drawing what/how you like it, there are people who simply "love" art, and they "love" making it. However, in most cases (unless you're some kind of an art genius) "love" on it's own would not make you in to a real professional.



Cheers,
Fallen.

[Wassy]

"The Zone" and "Your Comfort Zone" are (usually) two different things.

The Zone, also called "flow", is when you're bang on whatever you're doing. Everything clicks and you're rocking it out. This is an actual state of mind that has had scientific studies. If you know certain patterns or tools can get you into a flow state, it's a good practice. Most professional artists I've talked have harped on the importance of having a process that works for you. Sounds like a comfort zone, but it's not.

The Comfort Zone is exactly what you described above; only doing the things you want. I have a weird relationship with my comfort zone. It's comfortable, but I get my best work from challenges and am more motivated by challenges. So its uh... an uncomfortable comfort. Or something.

[Fallenangel]

"The Zone" and "Your Comfort Zone" are (usually) two different things.

The Zone, also called "flow", is when you're bang on whatever you're doing. Everything clicks and you're rocking it out. This is an actual state of mind that has had scientific studies. If you know certain patterns or tools can get you into a flow state, it's a good practice. Most professional artists I've talked have harped on the importance of having a process that works for you. Sounds like a comfort zone, but it's not.

The Comfort Zone is exactly what you described above; only doing the things you want. I have a weird relationship with my comfort zone. It's comfortable, but I get my best work from challenges and am more motivated by challenges. So its uh... an uncomfortable comfort. Or something.

Actually i'd appreciate if you'd elaborate about "the zone" a bit, because a process of producing art that works the best for you, doesn't have anything to do with your current state of mind....if it is, i want to know how to achieve this and how it works.

Frankly i find it quite hard to even understand what they mean by "love"/"zone" or whatever other abstract concept that can be used instead. I don't think they meant "the zone" in the meaning that you explain above.

[Diesel]

Fallen - I think there is a distinction here that is generally being missed. I took Whune's post as an expression of where he is on the artistic journey of his life and what he recognizes as differences between his journey and others' journeys. I see many similarities in his journey and experiences with ones that I have had myself. I don't get the sense that he is trying to claim his journey is the one that all artists take, that all artists will at some point be in a similar place in their journeys, or that his perspective on artistic journeys is true for everyone's journey. It's my impression that he is just sharing his current vantage point on his unique journey and some people will find similarities to their own journeys... others will never trod even close to the path that he has taken nor experience the viewpoint that he has on his own and others' artistic journeys. I think it's worth celebrating that he feels he has had a breakthrough in his understanding of himself and his journey. I agree with Socrates' statement that "The unexamined life is not worth living." (note: you don't need to agree. You can not agree and we can both be right because it's right for our own lives to agree/disagree with Socrates' statement).

Thank you again to Whune for sharing his journey and perspective. Thank you to Fallen for reminding us that we all have very unique perspectives and journeys on our artistic paths: personal, professional, and conjoined. For those youngsters out there reading this please know that your journey will be unique. I wish you well on your path - may it be joyful and may the challenges that you face only provide you with great satisfaction when you get past them, whatever they may be.

Cumbaya!

[Fallenangel]

Diesel
I don't object him presenting his personal experiences and paths in life.
However if all he has to express or offer, is his own personal opinion on a personal set of his own beliefs, it shouldn't be posted here in the Tips and Tech section, at least not in the manner it was written and presented here. (yes this is also only my personal opinion)

On a more philosophical note: ...it's totally not the place for it but....
If something is right/true for our own lives, it doesn't mean that we both are right about it.....

For those youngsters out there reading this please know that your journey will be unique. I wish you well on your path - may it be joyful and may the challenges that you face only provide you with great satisfaction when you get past them, whatever they may be.

Amen.

[Wassy]

Actually i'd appreciate if you'd elaborate about "the zone" a bit, because a process of producing art that works the best for you, doesn't have anything to do with your current state of mind....if it is, i want to know how to achieve this and how it works.

Frankly i find it quite hard to even understand what they mean by "love"/"zone" or whatever other abstract concept that can be used instead. I don't think they meant "the zone" in the meaning that you explain above.

I don't think they meant "the zone" = "love" either, but you stated above that "the zone" and a "comfort zone" were the same thing, and they aren't. When someone says they are "in the zone", it's almost always referring to "flow".

Also, the zone/flow isn't specific to producing art. It's a mental state where you're the most open to learning/creating/achieving. Here's the wiki page on it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29

Flow is a state of mind, but if you're attentive to your process, you can decipher how to get there and work at peak efficiency. Use the problem-solving method to figure out which tools, which habits, which procedures, etc. get your best work output.

I also think your state of mind will always be critical to your work, whatever it is. Can you work completely and utterly without your mind?

[Fallenangel]

I don't think they meant "the zone" = "love" either, but you stated above that "the zone" and a "comfort zone" were the same thing, and they aren't. When someone says they are "in the zone", it's almost always referring to "flow".

Also, the zone/flow isn't specific to producing art. It's a mental state where you're the most open to learning/creating/achieving. Here's the wiki page on it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29

Flow is a state of mind, but if you're attentive to your process, you can decipher how to get there and work at peak efficiency. Use the problem-solving method to figure out which tools, which habits, which procedures, etc. get your best work output.

I also think your state of mind will always be critical to your work, whatever it is. Can you work completely and utterly without your mind?

Made some sort of a correction to my "comfort zone post"...
Thanks for the info though i gotta do some research on it myself cause i really don't "trust" wiki as a credible information resource...and i don't like discussing something that i don't understand.

But like i said, the OP was talking about "love", only qrowdad started using "the zone" concept and i don't think he meant "zone = flow" there.
However, if he did mean "the zone = flow", it is still far from explaining how this state of mind, has to do anything with concepts of "love" or "passion" that they keep using.

I didn't say that one can work without mind , but in my opinion if one wants to be a professional he must learn to overcome all those pesky states of mind like: fear, fatigue, looser thinking and etc. some of them are good and some of them are bad...
If you'd let all those things control yourself and your art it would be very hard for you to become a professional that can produce for instance a set of 20+ pages per month.

You still can be an artist though, even if you can't/don't want to produce 20+ pages per moth or a custom painting for a client ....

[Wassy]

I agree. But I would consider being able to overcome unproductive states of mind a state of mind in and of itself. It's knowing the best ways you can get yourself to a calm state of mind.

And that's as zen as I'm getting for today, kids!