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Thread: perspective center of vision question

  1. #1

    perspective center of vision question

    I've been going through the book "Vanishing Point" by Jason Cheeseman-Meyer. I've been doing the exercises on the computer in Manga Studio. There are instructions in the book for using 2 point perspective with multiple 3 point perspectives that are all connected by one cone of vision. When I tried the exercise my work didn't look that good at the end.

    To experiment I used Google sketchup to make an image that had 2p and 3 point objects and tried going through the same steps to see if everything matched up. The Center of vision of the two 3 point objects that had different vanishing points didn't match up.

    Vanishing Point is the only book I have on perspective that talks about using multiple sets of 3 point vanishing points in one image. Is there another book that explains this? I feel like I'm missing something or doing something wrong.

    This is a link to the manga studio ex 4 project that was based on the sketchup image if anyone wants to look at it.
    http://tank.windwireless.net/~crsntl...practice06.zip

  2. #2
    Ma-Ma's not the law... I'm the LAW! [SUPPORTER] 50%grey's Avatar
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    I think you are overthinking this one.

    First the best book on perspective is Perspective made easy

    http://www.amazon.com/Perspective-Ma...2645006&sr=8-1

    The main things to think about is..

    1) Forgot about Horizon line, think of yourself as a camera and the line in the middle of that camera is what normally people call the horizon line. Where you put the camera will dictate how you view that scene.

    Put the camera low, you will be looking at there feet. Put the camera high, and you will be up on a ladder shooting from above. If you use one or two point perspective you will have to back the camera up to have your subject in full view of the camera.

    Now if you want to get close to your subject but still shoot from below, or above. That is where you use 3 point perspective. You are aiming up, or down at them.

    2) Know what each perspective does, one point perspective is for when you are looking at one side of an object from the front. Two point perspective is when you are looking at the corner of an object, and three point perspective is used to broaden a scene ( what you call a wide cone of vision). It allows you to get your camera close to a subject, and shoot from below or above.

    There is also curve-linear perspective, or what people call 5 point perspective. Mainly this is used for a fish eye lens effect or to fix one to three point perspective because the earth is not flat it curves. Basically it fixes distortion in a drawing.

    Then there is what I call the cheat perspective or Isometric projection. All it does is say the vanishing points are so far out that ALL lines become parallel. you see this allot in strategy games, or backgrounds behind a character that are in a very small space. Just make every line parallel, and you don't have to worry about calculating vanishing points, it is very boring tho, so don't use it much.

    3) Know that you can have multiple vanishing points, and they don't have to go to the middle of the camera (what people call the horizon line).

    You can also use one, two, and three point in the same scene.

    The point of this is, if your objects contact with the ground plane then ALL those objects will recede to the camera line. If your objects are off the ground such as flying, jumping, floating etc.. then they can go to another horizon line above, or below the original one.

    You can obviously use one, and two point perspective in the same scene, because the perspective of the object dictates how you are looking at it.

    If I'm looking at that chair from the corner then it's 2 point perspective, and If can see one side of that TV completely from the front then I know it's 1 point perspective.

    In 3 point perspective, you generally want to have anything on the ground be in 3 point perspective, but you can also use one point perspective for frontal shots. If the object is off the ground tho, you can shove 1 or 2 point perspective in the same scene, but remember they go to a separate horizon line.

    4) You will have to know how to cheat perspective abit, otherwise you will go crazy figuring it out.

    Main thing is knowing where your camera is, and how to use each perspective.

    This is important with characters in a scene.

    So say you want to shoot a full shot of 2 characters talking with the camera shooting from below.

    You have to start asking yourself questions. Do I want to be close to the subjects? , or do I want to move the camera farther away so I can see more of the scenery?

    If you want to move the Camera close to the subjects, but still keep them in full shot then you will have to use 3 point perspective.

    If you want to have the camera farther away allowing you to catch more background information then can use 1 and 2 point perspective.

    Both of these shots can be cheated when Lining up characters in perspective.

    All you have to do is find exactly where the camera is then take a major point on there body, and make that the reference point.

    So say the bottom of there chin is where the camera is level with , then all characters of equal height's chins will line up on that camera line no matter where they are in the scene, as long as they are in contact with the same ground plane as the reference character.

    If your camera line is so far above your characters that none of there body parts touch it, then you can take the height of there head, and measure how many heads it takes to reach there original head.

    You use that head measurement for every character of equal height in the scene not matter how far away, or close they are to the camera.

    We have to talk about one other subject, and more a rule of thumb then anything. In perspective to combat distortion in 2-3 point perspective it is best to have to at least one vanishing point inside the picture plane ( that is essentially your cone of vision), and have one vanishing point way out of the picture plane. This is the answer to your original question.

    Whew, that is allot of stuff haha, and I didn't even go over how to casts shadows in perspective.

    Anyway that perspective made easy book is definitely a good book to get, although It doesn't go over why you want to use everything. These are techniques I picked up by using a camera.

    One thing you might want to do is go in a 3d modeling program, and make a camera then move it around so you can see how exactly everything works.
    Last edited by 50%grey; 08-06-2011 at 12:53 PM.
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  3. #3
    very nice. usefull too
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  4. #4
    Thanks for the help. There were a lot of useful tips in there.

    It probably isn't necessary for most things but still want to understand the cone of vision better.

    I remembered that the perspective info on handprint talked about it too. Its pretty dense though. I have a hard time with it.

  5. #5

    Cone Of Vision!

    Quote Originally Posted by coreyh2 View Post
    Thanks for the help. There were a lot of useful tips in there.

    It probably isn't necessary for most things but still want to understand the cone of vision better.

    I remembered that the perspective info on handprint talked about it too. Its pretty dense though. I have a hard time with it.
    A good description of the cone of vision can be found in "Basic Perspective" and Creative Perspective" by Robert W. Gill. They are probably out of print, but you might be able to find .PDFs floating around the net.
    These books were written for architects, so bear that in mind.

    CyberLord

  6. #6
    Ma-Ma's not the law... I'm the LAW! [SUPPORTER] 50%grey's Avatar
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    Corey, I just found two excellent perspective books that are taught while you read a comic much like the Scott Mcloud Books.

    He has a huge section on Cone of Vision calculations

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0823005674
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0823026655
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  7. #7
    I found the books CyberLord mentioned on amazon. I ordered it but don't have it yet.
    http://www.amazon.com/Perspective-Cr.../dp/0500286078

    I did my best to read through the handprint info and understand the cone in general better. I'm still working on actually using it. I wish I had tutorials showing how to draw complex objects with them. I can attach rotated boxes together. I still need to work on the simpler stuff a bit.

    How is that "Extreme Perspective!" book? I was curious about the "comprehensive library of perspective grids on DVD" part. I'm not planning on using curvilinear perspective for a while though. Vanishing Point covers that also. Its why I bought it originally. Its a bit advance though.

    thanks for the help

  8. #8
    Ma-Ma's not the law... I'm the LAW! [SUPPORTER] 50%grey's Avatar
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    There amazing Corey, just read through the first one.

    Both have massive sections on cone of vision taught while you are reading a comic.
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