Ninja Turtles

[The P.R. Man]

exrensively = thoroughly

Raph is also proficient with swords as well, I remember one of the archie series future versions of Don and Raph, (the only survivors, as Leo and Mikey had been killed by some cyborg shark) were going back in time to warn their past versions about something or other. Donnie had given up training all together, and Raph was carrying Leo's swords in addition to his own Sai's. he also had an eyepatch and a cool ballcap.

my thoughts, Raph killed the other two and told Donnie, "look bitch, you're gonna keep your mouth shut or i'll give you a colinoscopy with that damn staff"

there was some kind of female fox chick there too who I thought was kind of hot at the time. that cyborg shark was cool too.

[basil81]

What if we were to factor out the weapons completely? In a purely hand-to-hand scenario, who would win?

[DDeal12]

Please define the term "extensively" as you would like to use it in this debate.

Extensively meaning thoroughly with pro instructors over the past several years.

What if we were to factor out the weapons completely? In a purely hand-to-hand scenario, who would win?

To basil's question, I think this one is tough. I don't know of any references to their hand-to-hand fighting abilities so the most I can do is hypothesize. I know Leo is the most extensively trained being a leader and as mentioned previously in the thread, Splinter's favorite, so I would think he is skilled at hand to hand fighting. I'm not really sure about the other three but what does everyone else think?

[turnbolt]

What if we were to factor out the weapons completely? In a purely hand-to-hand scenario, who would win?

Factoring out weapons completely would bring it down to Leo and Raph... They train the hardest and probably have the most general skill... It's a tough call because Raph does train hard and does LOVE to fight... Leo has a shot if he remains calm and fights very technically, but Raph will come hard and if he knocks you out before his temper causes him to make a mistake then yikes!

This could go either way... but if we were talking statistically who would come out on top in the most simulations of this fight (a la "Deadliest Warrior")... Leo always has a shot... but if I were betting... statistically I would have to give the edge to Raph.

I see Raph winning the final fight between him and Leo about 65% of the time.

[turnbolt]

I completely agree with turnbolt that Donatello would win in a fight. I've trained extensively with all four of these weapons, Bo-staff the most, and I have to say that his weapon is the most well suited against the other three.

Here is the order I would put them in based off of their weapons:

Donatello- his weapon is both simple and versatile. It can withstand attacks from the sword, nunchuks, and sais.
Raphael- Sai's are a great defensive and offensive weapon. The prongs of the sai can be used to hook weapons, for instance Mikey's nunchuku or Leo's swords from the hilt. Also, with the sai against the outside of your arm, it is great for blocking weapons like the sword (this technique was originally used by ninjas who kept the sai's up their sleeve which led to samurai thinking they were made of steel).
Leonardo-The sword is a tricky one. While it is somewhat long range, I wouldn't say it's the best weapon of the bunch as it isn't great for disarming (unless you plan on chopping someones hand off ) and only good for swinging and blocking.
Mikey-His weapons are just too short range. Unlike Raph who has many ways to utilize the sai even though they are short range, Mikey is really just left with swinging the nunchuku in different ways.

In terms of who would win in the fight factoring in both their weapons and level of skill, I would still go with Donatello. He is a logistic thinker as well as a skilled fighter. I would knock Raph down to third tied with Mikey. Like I said, the sai is a great weapon if used with technique and finesse but Raph is a bit of a berserker. Leo is smart and a very skilled fighter but factoring in his weapon, I'm putting him in second overall.

Lucid and well put! I completely agree! This is exactly what I would have said if I could have said it this well.