Strip Jam Official Discussion Thread [Archive] - Page 7

Wild&Uncouth

08-06-2009, 12:56 PM

Ok. If this is happening, then could you paste this spellchecked dialogue into the page?

Panel 1
Anchorbird and Jack Mcfinney stand in an opening inside the ruins. They are surrounded by church members with guns drawn on them.
1. Church Peeps: Move along, non-believers.
2. Jack: Stick close to me, lad. we'll be alright.
3. AB: Sure. Hey Jack, crazy question but... you're not from Colthoria, are you?

Panel 2
Mcfinney walking looking back over his shoulder at AB
4. Jack: Seems a strange time to get ta know each other, dontcha think?
5. AB: figured we might not get the chance later.
6. Jack: Yar right, lad. I came here on April 18, 1942. During The Doolittle Raid.

Panel 3
AB and McFinney are forced into one of the nearby buildings at gun point. Anchorbird's eyes are wide as he remembers.
7. AB: Doolittle? My... father was... shot down... during that raid! Yes! Captain... Sims. Dave Sims! I remember!*

*I staggered this whole line of dialogue with pauses and bits of punctuation to convey that AB is really working hard to get this information out. I moved the "I remember!" line to the end, as it made more sense to marvel at his accomplishment after it's accomplished.

Panel 4
McFinney stops in the building, shocked by AB's last statement. The guard raises his rifle up to smash McFinney.
8. Jack: Your father is Davey Sims? My god, I was his co-pilot. we were shot down en route to China. I woke up here. Josie fou—

Panel 5
The guard cracks McFinney across the back of the neck with his rifle. Jack's knife doesn't fall out of it's holster, as it was taken by the guards, during a thorough and regulated search. A search held Under the guide lines of the Geneva convention.
9. Guard: Keep moving, dog.

Panel 6
AB kneels down next to McFinney.
10. AB: Jack, my memories are coming back. I could be wrong, but I think I knew your son on Earth. We need to find Josie...
11. AB: ...but first I'm gonna get us out of here. When this kicks off stay close. Things might get messy.

Aceschock

08-06-2009, 12:58 PM

I'll Take panel two.

Greenskyzero

08-06-2009, 12:58 PM

ScottEwen

08-06-2009, 12:58 PM

Ok. If this is happening, then could you paste this spellchecked dialogue into the page?

Done and done.

ScottEwen

08-06-2009, 01:01 PM

sweet christmas! this is nuts. why put that page in when we've discussed for the last four pages that it doesnt work. I'm not leaving because of any of this, you guys are right the page doesnt work, its fine. approving it now Just seems like trying to keep me happy or something. I'm not some diva running off cause my page didnt get approved.

I'm not putting the page back in to make you happy, I'm putting it back in because I like where the story's going. It's true that too much flashback stuff was happening, but now that the story's moving along I'd rather just keep it going in the direction it was headed. Also, the page was already approved and sent to Steve McBride, at this point I don't wanna have to go back and revise pages or take pages out, it's approved and let's move on.

Tell you what, I'll leave the final decision up to you, Joel. If you want the page deleted I'll do it, if you want to draw it, that's fine too. Or we can leave the page in and farm out the panels. Up to you.

Aceschock

08-06-2009, 01:01 PM

I retrack my panel.(If your goin ta do it, joel:))

Wild&Uncouth

08-06-2009, 01:01 PM

I'm just trying to be helpful, but I have to say that I'm with Joel on this one.

I still don't feel the page works.

ScottEwen

08-06-2009, 01:03 PM

I'm just trying to be helpful, but I have to say that I'm with Joel on this one.

I still don't feel the page works.

Fair enough. Like I said, I'm leaving the final decision up to Joel.

Aceschock

08-06-2009, 01:04 PM

Joel?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????

Greenskyzero

08-06-2009, 01:06 PM

give me an hour ill post a new rough and we can start this fight all over again.

Aceschock

08-06-2009, 01:08 PM

What do you want ta do man. The ball is in you court. You can make the basket!

[Now, I know I haven't had any sleep..I'm soundin like a cheerleader]

Aceschock

08-06-2009, 01:08 PM

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee -hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

ScottEwen

08-06-2009, 01:09 PM

give me an hour ill post a new rough and we can start this fight all over again.

Thanks Joel. Sorry about all the controversy surrounding the page, hope there's no hurt feelings about this.

I sent a PM to Steve letting him know to hold off on his page for the time being.

Aceschock

08-06-2009, 01:09 PM

That's it Joel. It's all good, now I'm Going To Sleep.

Greenskyzero

08-06-2009, 01:15 PM

no hurt feelings here at all. at no point during any of this did I have hurt feelings.

Wild&Uncouth

08-06-2009, 01:32 PM

I'm super-happy you're taking another crack at it, Joel.

caseycp

08-06-2009, 01:37 PM

I'm actually smiling right now reading this thread. A few seconds ago, I was all tense, wondering "what's going on?!" I'm smiling now because i realize that everyone chiming in on this curfuffle shows how passionate we all are about this project. Sounds cheesy, I know, to use a word like "passionate" about this thing that's basically Scott's webcomic-jam experiment that he's let us all be a part of...but it's true.

Guess what I'm saying is, garsh...i love you guys.

ScottEwen

08-06-2009, 02:01 PM

Sounds cheesy, I know, to use a word like "passionate" about this thing that's basically Scott's webcomic-jam experiment that he's let us all be a part of...but it's true.

I love how passionate everyone is about it too, to be honest. When I started the Strip Jam I had no idea what was going to happen.... I really expected it to sit there for weeks with a few people participating until it wound down to a halt and I ended it. A lot of the smaller strip jams were like that... I'd have spots for eight people and I'd have to end it after six people because no one was interested.

Then the Strip Jam exploded and became this thing with a month-long waiting list, and Anchorbird has exceeded my expectations. I'm surprised every day not just by how good it is, but by how much people care about it. I just wish other people were reading it besides the people who draw it, but I don't think it's got much of an audience.

Greenskyzero

08-06-2009, 02:17 PM

my second attempt is up now

ScottEwen

08-06-2009, 02:20 PM

Looks good to me, Joel. The only thing I'd suggest is to draw up a character design for William.

Wild&Uncouth

08-06-2009, 02:35 PM

That's grade A bad-ass, Joel.

The Moon Tyrant's head is addressed spectacularly!
I like how McFinney blames AB immediatley for the mess they're in. That's hilarious.
The 'dolittle' line was delivered so non-chalantly by McFinney. it was perfect.
AB picking up in it was very subtle as well. "Why does AB know what that means?!" The mind ponders...
Josie is back in it, and she has a bundle-of-nerves assistant.
Awesome. It's awesome! Thank you for taking another crack at it!

TOO FnCKING COOL, Joel.

And like Scott already mentioned, we just need a character design for William.

I'll send you my grammar/spellcheck right now!

I'm glad this all came back around into the green zone! We're doing it, guys!

bravado-bomb

08-06-2009, 02:38 PM

I'm so confused... I need an adult.

Seriously though, I'm glad that got all worked out before I started reading everything. I just had to read 10 pages of the thread to catch up and I haven't even read my private messages from scott yet. I'm at work and can't really spend much longer, but as far as I know, Joel did another page which I haven't looked at yet, so I'm just waiting until that's all clear, right? Okay good. Back to work, I'll check in when I'm home and see if anymore of my online world was turned upside down, put in a bag, and beaten with a large stick.

I love you all... but I love you most of all Scarecrow.

caseycp

08-06-2009, 02:45 PM

Joel: awesome new page.
Tense. Mysterious. You brought Josie back, and managed to drop a hint about the Dolittle raid. Nice work.

Who is William????

Wild&Uncouth

08-06-2009, 02:52 PM

Grammar/spellcheck message is sent.
Joel's page is approved by me, Scott.

ScottEwen

08-06-2009, 02:53 PM

Me too. Maybe in the interest of keeping this moving I should just give Steve McBride the go ahead rather than waiting another 12 hours.

Wild&Uncouth

08-06-2009, 02:56 PM

Greenlight Steve.
Joel's page is pretty much flawless now.

ScottEwen

08-06-2009, 03:00 PM

Okay, PM'd Steve again. Joel's page is approved.

Wild&Uncouth

08-06-2009, 03:42 PM

Sweet.
*cracks open a beer*
*glug* *glug* *glug*

SeanRM

08-06-2009, 03:53 PM

Great page Joel!

I can't wait to see what comes next.

bravado-bomb

08-06-2009, 07:49 PM

Alright I'm officially on it. GreenJoelSkyLolarZero, you're the king of layouts sir.

Aceschock

08-07-2009, 07:45 AM

I like your page joel, it's awesome.

caseycp

08-07-2009, 04:01 PM

Wild&Uncouth

08-07-2009, 04:08 PM

BTW, Scott, if you check out the stripjam thread Spidey has backed out of his panel, so you can delete his placeholder as well.

DAMMIT.

ScottEwen

08-07-2009, 07:27 PM

Scott: can you please delete my last Anchorbird placeholder post? I'm going on vacation the third week in August and I don't want a deadline looming over my head.

I figure i'd back out of my spot now, so I wont be tempted to throw a thumbnail down after Turtle Boat posts his.

No problem.

BTW, Scott, if you check out the stripjam thread Spidey has backed out of his panel, so you can delete his placeholder as well.

DAMMIT.

Okay, NickGuy's up. NickGuy, I swear, if you bring back the Red Snulk in your panel, or introduce any new lame characters, you're banned from the strip jam.

Wild&Uncouth

08-07-2009, 08:22 PM

Harsh.

I'm assuming you mean for just this one panel. He's free to to do whatever he wants next panel, right?

colesla

08-08-2009, 01:22 AM

I'm disappointed that you didn't go, Spidey. I was excited for your panel.

caseycp

08-08-2009, 02:56 AM

Anchorbird page is up.
I had to cram to get it done tonight as I have to catch a flight to L.A. tomorrow at 7am.

Holy crap, that's only 5 hours from now...oh well, sleep is for wussies.

godwin

08-08-2009, 09:11 AM

Casey I friggin love the look of this page. makes me want to see it animated. Have a great flight.

ScottEwen

08-08-2009, 09:21 AM

Harsh.

I'm assuming you mean for just this one panel. He's free to to do whatever he wants next panel, right?

No, I was just joking. I really just don't want a repeat of the Red Snulk panel.

NickRocks

08-08-2009, 11:28 AM

Okay, NickGuy's up. NickGuy, I swear, if you bring back the Red Snulk in your panel, or introduce any new lame characters, you're banned from the strip jam.

well, red snulks body was never positively identified...;)

J/K lol

Aceschock

08-09-2009, 04:08 AM

Scott I'm totally lost with the strip jam, man. Could you send me a pm with the whole damned story so far? Or an update of the info for the last post?

Wild&Uncouth

08-09-2009, 05:21 AM

Eric, don't press Scott for that info. It's readily available within the jam itself.

Besides, where is this coming from exactly? You're not even up in it for another six panels. That's plenty of time for you to research the stripjam on your own.

I can provide you two things- Scott's recap of panels 1-80 (http://www.scottewenart.com/stripjamrecap.png). and then his recap for panels 81-160 (http://www.scottewenart.com/recap2.html).

Everything after that you have to just read on the page starting on Page 17 (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88413&page=17).

ScottEwen

08-09-2009, 08:55 AM

Karl, I wouldn't use links that include page numbers because depending on your settings, it'll send you to a different place in the strip jam. For instance, in my settings there are only 11 pages in the strip jam thread, so that link just sends me to the last page.

Here's a link that sends you where the story picks up after the last recap:

http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1030250

And yeah, Eric, I can't really send you a recap of the strip jam in a PM because it took me days to write the last two recaps and at this point the recap would be the length of a short story. Best just to read the two recaps that have already been written and pick up the story after that.

Turtle Boat

08-09-2009, 10:16 AM

in the new page by greenskyzero, does the lleudist guards have guns or weapons of any sort?

Greenskyzero

08-09-2009, 10:52 AM

they have guns. I should probably draw one for ref.

Aceschock

08-09-2009, 11:29 AM

This comes from me wanting to not miss my next deadline and not knowing where in the strip I am.

Aceschock

08-09-2009, 11:59 AM

Besides, School is the word of the day! School! I'm sorry Scott (I should of thought of you in school, before I posted), and Karl, Thanks I'm caught up! That strip is crazy!

NickRocks

08-09-2009, 12:14 PM

ok, almost done with my panel.

Wild&Uncouth

08-09-2009, 01:02 PM

My memory of dates is a little fuzzy but Nickguy, how many days have you been working on this panel? It seems like you're well over two days now, even without the people who dropped out before you.

The stripjam seems like it's done nothing but grind to a halt over the past two weeks. It's BORING.

Why don't we get those sprees anymore where like, 3 people post panels in the span of 24 hours? That needs to happen more often.

It seems like these days someone takes 48 hours to post something. then the next two people take 48 hours a piece only to quit at the last minute, then the next person takes 48 hours to maybe post art on time. What a pain in the ass. People need to quit immediately if they're not going to do anything.

Finished art isn't a requirement of the stripjam, people. It can be stick figures. It just needs to further the story. I find it infuriating when people opt out because it really shouldn't be an option. Drawing a stripjam panel should be the easiest thing in the world to do. Continue the story! That's the only requirement.

HURRY UP, PEOPLE!

Wild&Uncouth

08-09-2009, 01:13 PM

Nickguy, that was brutal! Point-blank. Ouch.

NickRocks

08-09-2009, 01:14 PM

hahah well i wanted to do a invincible style punch through the gut...cant you see Luigi's crying? lol

ScottEwen

08-09-2009, 03:31 PM

My memory of dates is a little fuzzy but Nickguy, how many days have you been working on this panel? It seems like you're well over two days now, even without the people who dropped out before you.

Nah, he was about six hours under the deadline.

It seems like these days someone takes 48 hours to post something. then the next two people take 48 hours a piece only to quit at the last minute, then the next person takes 48 hours to maybe post art on time. What a pain in the ass. People need to quit immediately if they're not going to do anything.

Finished art isn't a requirement of the stripjam, people. It can be stick figures. It just needs to further the story. I find it infuriating when people opt out because it really shouldn't be an option. Drawing a stripjam panel should be the easiest thing in the world to do. Continue the story! That's the only requirement.

HURRY UP, PEOPLE!

Yeah, I know what you mean. But to play devil's advocate... at the beginning of the jam I was doing my panels in about a half hour (or less) because they were so quick and easy, but now it's getting tougher and tougher to finish up by the deadline. I'm having to read the last couple pages of the strip, come up with an idea, write it, read the strip again to make sure I didn't conflict with anything, then draw it and color it, which takes a lot longer now that I'm trying to cram TONS of story into my panels and have to draw multiple characters. When I was doing one quick panel every 6-8 posts, it was easy. Now that I'm doing a huge panel every 10-20 posts, it's way harder.

Y'know, I know this is the "Never-Ending" Strip Jam, but maybe at some point if the story seems like it's nearing the end, we should just wrap up the various plot lines and start a brand new strip jam. What does everyone else think?

NickRocks

08-09-2009, 03:51 PM

a strip jam wipe? wasnt that what the bomb on asgard was supposed to be? lol

ScottEwen

08-09-2009, 03:59 PM

a strip jam wipe? wasnt that what the bomb on asgard was supposed to be? lol

It could have gone either way, as the people who went after that panel could conceivably have started a brand new story with no connection to the first; it was just sort of decided to carry on the story and characters after the bomb blew up.

Of course, if we were to start a new storyline, it's inevitable that someone would introduce characters and settings from the first strip jam, and we'd be right back into the original story. So I don't know how successful a reboot would be.

I'm just thinking of the people who don't participate because they don't understand what's going on, or the ones that do participate anyway and then get yelled at because they did something wrong.

ScottEwen

08-09-2009, 04:02 PM

It seems like these days someone takes 48 hours to post something. then the next two people take 48 hours a piece only to quit at the last minute, then the next person takes 48 hours to maybe post art on time. What a pain in the ass. People need to quit immediately if they're not going to do anything.

Oh by the way, I give positive reputation on every panel in the strip jam, but one thing I've started doing is giving rep to people who drop out if they do it right away without letting their time run down. I'm hoping that encourages people to pass if they know they're not going to have time rather than let us all wait 48 hours for nothing.

Turtle Boat

08-09-2009, 04:03 PM

a new strip jam? meaning back to the punchlines and laugh out loud moments? that sounds ****ing awesome actually. the strip jam used to be alot like the neverending picture thread if you think about it.

NickRocks

08-09-2009, 04:06 PM

yeah id be in favor of a new strip jam...however, make sure from the beginning you say something like this is NOT a never ending strip jam...say something like...100 panels? and after 100 panel placeholders its the end?

and we really should get someone to like...compile the current panels and arrange them into "pages"

NickRocks

08-09-2009, 04:07 PM

oh and theres no need to end the neverending strip jam, IMO. just create a new, finite strip jam.

ScottEwen

08-09-2009, 04:11 PM

Or we could start a new short-form strip jam, like the (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89818) Invisible (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91733) Jams (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92152) or the Backwards Jam (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92547). Those were more of the "laugh out loud" style of Strip Jams than the story-heavy ones like Anchorbird and the way the NESJ is now. I'm just hesitant to do a new one because of how little interest there was the last couple times...

bravado-bomb

08-09-2009, 04:13 PM

Hey everyone. So my power got shut off last week for a late payment. I recently let my brother move into my apartment, and the power bill went from under a hundred a month to 400. Ridiculous! Kid needs to stop blasting my AC. Since my power is off, I"ve pretty much been sitting there in the heat, no computer/scanner access. I had to text WildandUncouth to skip me in the anchorbird thread. Sorry about that. I was really excited to go after Joel and had a couple great ideas. I have very limited internet access, so I'm just on here to apologize and then throw another placeholder on. PG&E is turning my power back on in the morning so I'll see you all soon.

colesla

08-09-2009, 05:08 PM

Mario is dead and Luigi pulled the trigger. I almost feel guilty for setting that up. Almost. Thank you NickGuy for doing the dirty deed.

Wild&Uncouth

08-09-2009, 05:22 PM

Scott, if you're going to end the NESJ you should do it at panel 200 (which is currently held by you). You would force a massive wrap-up of the current crazy storyline.

One thing I do find frustrating is that we're in a major wrap-up stage of the stripjam anyway. We've consolidated the timelines, we're eliminating multiple versions of characters, etc.

There are still opportunities for punchlines and laugh-out loud moments in the current stripjam. There are greater opportunities for people like Turtle Boat and Nickguy, who seem to thrive on these motifs exclusively, becoming present with each 'wrap up' panel we do in the stripjam. It would happen a lot quicker if people would just get busy on contributing instead of backing out over and over again.

If you start a new stripjam, that's totally fine. I'm finding less enjoyment in the NESJ due to the waning interest evident in the participation factor, in spite of the fact that we've finally gotten over the huge hump known as the seat-of-your-pants-time-travel-storyline, and people shouldn't be having nearly as many problems making shit up, doing setups for jokes, reveals, twists, etc.

If you start a new stripjam though, no one will be participating in the NESJ. They'll all flock to the new one. Or they'll be more interested in the new one, and when their turn comes up in the NESJ, they'll either pass on their placeholder or crap something out because it's not what they're entertained by anymore now that there is a new, hipper, more random joke-fueled jam.

So if you're going to start a new jam, even if it has an end date of a hundred panels, I say end the NESJ. It will only be neglected. 200 panels is a pretty good run.

ScottEwen

08-09-2009, 05:36 PM

Yeah, I wouldn't start a new long-form Strip Jam without ending the current one. Moderating the Strip Jam AND Anchorbird is work enough, I don't need a third one.

Aceschock

08-09-2009, 05:41 PM

I'm all for a new strip jam!!!

ScottEwen

08-09-2009, 05:43 PM

http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96029

I put up a poll. Please make your voice be heard.

SeanRM

08-09-2009, 05:47 PM

ScottEwen

08-09-2009, 05:49 PM

I have to agree with everyone that a fresh start with a new Stip Jam is probably the best idea. It would allow for a new setting and some different stuff.

At this point the NESJ is in the final throngs of the story (as Karl mentioned) so the potential to do really strange and fun stuff is dwindled a bit.

Yeah, also it seems like every other person involved in the jam complains that they don't understand what's happening. I feel like the "continuity" of the strip jam has really kept some people away, since in the beginning there were tons of people contributing, and it slowly dwindled down to the same few names over and over.

bravado-bomb

08-09-2009, 09:44 PM

Scott, you said this in the new pole thread in regards to the never-ending strip jam:

I did not foresee it continuing to be about the same core group of characters for the past year and having increasingly dense continuity to the point that no one understands what's going on.

It's funny how the never-ending strip jam seems to mirror almost every long running series at Marvel and DC. Maybe we should just reboot the strip jam? Ultimate Never Ending Strip Jam! Or maybe get really awesome with Strip Jam 2099! No? Maybe we should have a crossover event with one of the other community projects! Strip Jam vs Superman vs Goku. Now we can REALLY get the most out of the jam.

/sarcasm

Wild&Uncouth

08-09-2009, 11:05 PM

I just voted to end it, but I immediately regretted it and if I could cast my vote again I would vote to keep the NESJ going.

A few points-

1) Randomness. People who are complaining about their inability to insert randomness in the stripjam are limited only by their own creative limitations. Having plot does not nullify the potential for randomness.

2) Continuity- Scott mentioned that continuity has kept people away. I think the SIZE has kept people away. Once we hit 80 panels it became hard to access, yet people have still joined up (colesla, caseyCP, SeanRM, etc). I think Scott exagerates when he says TONS of people were contributing, and need I remind you that when all these people were contributing there were also 3 SOLID SNAKES in existence; Luigi, Joker, and Snake. Felix the cat was hanging out with Garfield and peanut butter. When I joined up, I was explicitly asked to fix a mistake in continuity (panel 80).

3) Rough Patch- I think we've hit a rough patch, and I say if the NESJ slows down to a crawl and goes through a really tough time SO BE IT. Old blood will bow out and lose interest. New blood will come in and revitalize, reestablish, and revolutionize the very idea of what we can do in the StripJam.

If someone wants a no-holds-barred, "The Completely Random Stripjam," then let them start one. Scott, if you, as a moderator and topic-starter, need to start it, then do so, but you don't need to run it. The whole point of it is chaos. A moderator will only get in the way. It's basically a "Let's Draw a Random Picture Thread." Those are in Break Room. It can go there.

The point of the NESJ is to keep the STORY GOING. We control the continuity. We control the story. There is not one thing that isn't fixable or workable within the confines of the StripJam.

Don't end it, Scott. The NESJ deserves much better than this.

Greenskyzero

08-09-2009, 11:07 PM

I dont know, I voted keep it going. its the never ending strip jam and although at times it is confusingn and hard to follow I like working on it. it's a nice break in the week to get sit down and draw some crazy over the top nonsense. I like the Major and the ridiculous cast of characters. if we finish the asgard storyline couldn't we in theory Jump a head a year and Just Have some of the same cast come back and be a more simplfied strip? a new adventure? Season 2 of the never ending strip Jam? maybe thats the best of both worlds

SeanRM

08-10-2009, 01:03 AM

I can definitely see what you guys are saying, and if we just move past the current story and get a fresh new plot going that will help alot.

I also wanna clarify that when I said;

...so the potential to do really strange and fun stuff is dwindled a bit.

It was not a call for chaotic madness. I don't want to see the thread de-volve into a game of "who can draw the weirdest panel". It was more of a request for fresh opportunities.

I wouldn't mind keeping Lauren and the Major and some of our SJ cast around for new adventures, but I do feel that things have stagnated plotwise a bit. (The "epic" quest for the time machine didn't help with that.)

I think things will get better from here on, whether we get a full restart, or just a new adventure. I still enjoy being a part of the NESJ, otherwise I wouldn't care so much about keeping it fun. ;)

I would like to note that if we decide to continue with a "second season" rather than starting from scratch - I would still vote that we pick it up in a new thread. Keep the old thread as an archive of "season one". A smaller page count might help keep new blood (or returning old blood) from being daunted.

Just start it with one of Scott's recaps of the previous adventure. (And maybe links to the previous recaps, so he doesn't have to try and recap the entire thread.)

Wild&Uncouth

08-10-2009, 01:41 AM

I would like to note that if we decide to continue with a "second season" rather than starting from scratch - I would still vote that we pick it up in a new thread. Keep the old thread as an archive of "season one". A smaller page count might help keep new blood (or returning old blood) from being daunted.

Just start it with one of Scott's recaps of the previous adventure. (And maybe links to the previous recaps, so he doesn't have to try and recap the entire thread.)

Sean, there is no 'second season.' There is only the never-ending comic strip. They've only gone back in time to stop an explosion. This has in no way put an end to anything.

If people are tired of these characters and don't want to deal with them anymore, then kill them off and introduce new ones. The onyl thing sis this- it all comes down to popular opinion. Characters have been killed off before, numerous times. They get brought back when other characters visit Asgard, or travel to the future, or are just miraculously sewn back together whole and are looking for the bathroom, no explanation given.

If we're to arbitrarily divide the StripJam into seasons then i would say that we're already in the fourth or fifth season.

Season 1- Luigi-as-Solid-Snake and the MOFL Briefcase
Season 2- Solid Snake in the Slammer/Government Conspiracy
Season 3- The Asgardian Stand-Off
Season 4- The Rise and Demise of the Star King
Season 5- An Uncharted Future. It's just beginning...

I think this whole discussion, while we are free to have it, is ultimately a waste of time. If people want to do other stripjams, then so be it. They can do it outside of the NESJ. There is only one Never-Ending StripJam.

And as much as people are piping up about starting a new jam, last time I checked, every time NickGuy finishes a panel he plants down a new placeholder immediately, as does everyone else who is actively participating. Actions speak louder than words here. If people were truly 'done' with this project, then they're certainly not showing it by continuing to lay down placeholders.

If people are too confused by the story, then maybe we should do synopses every 50 panels as opposed to every 80, but that's the only thing I feel may need to be modified. There will always be issues concerning continuity. A new jam will have the same problems, given it goes on long enough, no matter how random-joke inspired it is.

SeanRM

08-10-2009, 02:04 AM

Fair enough. :p

At the very least this discussion (pointless as it may seem) might help get regain enthusiasm. It definitely seems to be working in that regard.

I have to admit I find myself thinking of ideas that I might use for future panels/posts.

Wild&Uncouth

08-10-2009, 02:33 AM

I feel like the "continuity" of the strip jam has really kept some people away, since in the beginning there were tons of people contributing, and it slowly dwindled down to the same few names over and over.

I checked into this Scott. I wrote down the names of the first 50 and the last 50 placholders on the NESJ thread.

In the first 50 posts/placeholders, there are a total of 24 participants. Most of them only participated once- right at the beginning.

By page four it had dwindled down significantly to posts almost exclusively by you, NickGuy, godwin, CarlosArtWrx, TurtleBoat, jfronitrre, and Pop Ninja, with a couple of one-timers sprinkled in here or there (7+ participants).

In the last 50 posts/placeholders there are a total of 21 participants. The amount of one-timers/newcomers with placeholders is very small. AP Hilliard is in. CrazyDiamond is back after a very long departure from the jam (he contributed somewhere in those first 50 posts). CarlosArtWrx is back as well.

Regular participants right now consist of you, Nickguy, Taro Mochi, Colesla, GreenSkyZero, CaseyCP, Jocko, me, BBALLER, godwin, krazyricky1, bravado-bomb, and seanRM (13+ participants).

It seems to me that after looking at those stats, the stripjam currently is more prosperous than it was in the beginning. More people consistently contribute, and new people still join up and become regulars.

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 07:26 AM

Good points have been brought up on both sides. I left the poll open for seven days, so at the end of the week we'll see where the votes are and make a decision.

Aceschock, I noticed your page is finished on your deviantART. Just to remind you, once Rian posts his page on the blog, you can post your page, but postdate it for the day after. That way there aren't two pages going up on the same day. I noticed we had that happen a couple times in the last two weeks.

Oh, and I got the hi-res version of the art in my email. Thanks!

jocko

08-10-2009, 08:29 AM

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 08:32 AM

And where the hell stays the mayor with that kid im gonna need them.

..... what? :confused:

And who is that on the ground that Lauren lands next to?

Wild&Uncouth

08-10-2009, 09:13 AM

Got mine stripjam panel up . Don't know if you can see it but here whole right arm is only a bone now, there are some infections in here face and here eye's are all black . Trying to speed up the zombie infections because she needs to be full zobie in a matter of seconds.

Also i did the lettering digital so keep those translating books in the desk.

Jocko, The bomb was destroyed in GreenSkyZero's panel. You can see the explosion and the xorpses of MJ and the Star King.

You see Scott, it's not the continuity of the stripjam that confuses people. They're confused regardless.

jocko

08-10-2009, 10:10 AM

..... what? :confused:

And who is that on the ground that Lauren lands next to?

In you last panel the old mayor said to the mayor: .....you and lauren take the idot with the mountain dew and stop the bomb....

The other char is the lauren who is standing in asgard.

Jocko, The bomb was destroyed in GreenSkyZero's panel. You can see the explosion and the xorpses of MJ and the Star King

And that i f*cked up :( Thought it was just the snulk who was getting cut in pieces....

Greenskyzero

08-10-2009, 10:13 AM

it's the MAJOR not the mayor. J no Y

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 10:16 AM

In you last panel the old mayor said to the mayor: .....you and lauren take the idot with the mountain dew and stop the bomb....

First of all, it's the major, not the mayor. He's not the mayor of a town, it's a military rank. Anyway, yes, I remember, but this line of dialogue:

And where the hell stays the mayor with that kid im gonna need them.

What does it mean? I can't make heads nor tails of it.

The other char is the lauren who is standing in asgard.

I would suggest putting in some clue that it's Lauren then, because otherwise it looks like some Dragonball Z character. It looks like a male from behind with those huge muscular arms, and you can't see her tattoo or earrings or anything else that would give the reader a clue who it is. At the very least, maybe draw a little arrow pointing to her saying "this is Lauren."

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 10:20 AM

And where the hell stays the mayor with that kid im gonna need them.

Do you mean "where the hell is the major with that kid?" I'm thinking the verb "stays" is what's messing me up here. And then "I'm gonna need them" is another sentence, right? I'm reading it as "that kid I'm going to need" and then the word "them" throws me for a loop.

Greenskyzero

08-10-2009, 10:21 AM

scott I think it's supposed to read

"where the hell are the major and that kid? I'm gonna need them"

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 10:22 AM

scott I think it's supposed to read

"where the hell are the major and that kid? I'm gonna need them"

Yeah, re-reading it now I think that's what he meant. The odd syntax was really confusing me.

Wild&Uncouth

08-10-2009, 10:23 AM

Man, that zombie infection must really be messing with Lauren's head. She's not making ANY sense these days.
She just stopped the bomb, but she thinks she hasn't stopped it.
She's calling The Major 'The Mayor.'
It's crazy.

P.S. Jocko, if you go back to Panel 100, you will see a good ref pic of Cell Block D Lauren. She has heart earrings, a heart tattoo on her arm, and the back of her shirt says "CELL BLOCK D."

Greenskyzero

08-10-2009, 10:23 AM

although didn't sith lauren jump out of the fortress before they came up with the plan and the bomb is already destroyed, oh well.

Wild&Uncouth

08-10-2009, 10:24 AM

@Scott, I too thought it was a DBZ character.

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 10:41 AM

Well, let's hope CoachTech can figure out what's up. I notice he registered just to post that placeholder in the thread, and hasn't posted anything else on Penciljack nor has he even logged in since putting that placeholder in. His profile says his name is Adam Foster... anyone recognize that name?

If he doesn't reply, then it's up to me. I'm up to the challenge!!

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 10:53 AM

Heh... why is it whenever it gets to my turn I feel like I'm cleaning up a mess?

Wild&Uncouth

08-10-2009, 10:54 AM

Because the stripjam operates in varying degrees of messy and that's about it.

bravado-bomb

08-10-2009, 11:21 AM

I voted to start a new strip jam too but after reading all this I would change my vote to keep it going. Scott, when you're tallying that please move one over for me. I think if we can move some of the core characters to a new adventure things would be great. They can wrap this one up, which seems like it's heading that way.

My all-star line-up team of adventurers would include:

-JediZombieLauren (like she's managed to use her jedi powers to control the zombie rage or something like that)

-cell block D Lauren fully strapped with some firepower

-Ursala with her one size fits all super strenth robot gloves, a little confused with 2 moms on the same team.

-Sammy Senior, because every team needs some 'roided out guy who looks like Abe Lincoln

-Space Bee Arm Major as their leader, the undisputed coolest character to come out of the strip jam. (undisputed in my mind anyway)

They're all original characters too, except of course the jedi reference. Such a great team of badassness!

In other news, my power is back on!!! Now I just have to try and not have another multi-million dollar electric bill.

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 11:25 AM

Right now I'm leaning towards keeping it going and letting the story end naturally, if at all. You're right, Karl, the continuity isn't what's confusing people about the strip jam, they're just unwilling to read the story and figure out what's going on.

When I started the strip jam, my plan was to let it keep going until it got to a point where no one else was signing up to participate, and then I'd close the thread, pop in a final placeholder, and wrap all the plot threads myself the best I could in one giant panel.

I do like the idea, though, that the Strip Jam could be about the ever-continuing adventures of the Major and Lauren. They seem to be the two break-out characters, and I'd like to see more of them, even if it doesn't involve the MOFL suitcase or time machines. Let's just keep it going until no one wants to do it anymore.

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 11:27 AM

They're all original characters too, except of course the jedi reference. Such a great team of badassness!

The Major is not an original character, he's a Moebius creation. But he's so far removed from his original version he's almost an original creation.

bravado-bomb

08-10-2009, 11:31 AM

Right now I'm leaning towards keeping it going and letting the story end naturally, if at all. You're right, Karl, the continuity isn't what's confusing people about the strip jam, they're just unwilling to read the story and figure out what's going on.

I agree. There has been some of us late comers who have a grasp of what's going on. I mean, I speant an entire afternoon reading all the old panels before my turn just so I knew EXACTLY where we were. Colesla seems to really know what's going on too. It's just that here and there people make a panel without really reading much before it, or they do read it and still do something dumb. It's going to happen, oh well, but I really don't want to stop using these fantastic characters because of that.

NickRocks

08-10-2009, 11:32 AM

Sam is all awesome. i didnt think anyone would want to use him when i first drew him. abe lincoln in tighty whities and buccaneer boots was what i was aiming for.

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 11:34 AM

the major is all awesome. i didnt think anyone would want to use him when i first drew him. abe lincoln in tighty whities and buccaneer boots was what i was aiming for.

Okay, seriously, this comment is making me angry. How do you not know that the Major and Sam are two different characters?

bravado-bomb

08-10-2009, 11:34 AM

The Major is not an original character, he's a Moebius creation. But he's so far removed from his original version he's almost an original creation.

Oh crazy, I didn't know that. I'll look it up right now. Is the characters name actually The Major?

bravado-bomb

08-10-2009, 11:36 AM

Okay, seriously, this comment is making me angry. How do you not know that the Major and Sam are two different characters?

Seriously. Hasn't he been part of the strip jam for a REALLY long time!? No escuses man.

NickRocks

08-10-2009, 11:36 AM

Okay, seriously, this comment is making me angry. How do you not know that the Major and Sam are two different characters?

oh snap youre right! i was looking at the post above me while typing this.

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 11:37 AM

Oh crazy, I didn't know that. I'll look it up right now. Is the characters name actually The Major?

It's Major Grubert, it's from the Airtight Garage stories. I've never read them, but if you look at his first appearance in the strip jam (at least, his first appearance as himself, not as Sammy in disguise), that's how he looks in the comics. Then he became a space zombie with an arm made of bees and wore a leather jacket with no shirt and... well, he's not really Major Grubert anymore.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Spyderizzle/cj-panel.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/2430052508_a621d69269.jpg

NickRocks

08-10-2009, 11:39 AM

and thus began the asgard saga. ah memories.

bravado-bomb

08-10-2009, 11:43 AM

That character looks pretty badass too. But I'm pretty sure our Space Bee Major would beat the crap out of that major ANYDAY.

Technically we can find that out in the strip jam. They're both there! Plus The General is there too. All three majors in one fight to the death, hoo raaah!

ScottEwen

08-10-2009, 11:46 AM

So, if we are keeping the strip jam around, would anyone be interested in doing another short-form strip jam, the ones that are more packed with random jokes and nonsense?

Here are the ones we've done so far as examples:

Invisible Strip Jam 1: Batman and Robin (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89818)
Invisible Strip Jam 2: Ren and Stimpy (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91733)
Invisible Strip Jam 3: Marvel Superheroes (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92152)
Backwards Strip Jam: Superman and Lex Luthor (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92547)

Wild&Uncouth

08-10-2009, 11:47 AM

I voted to start a new strip jam too but after reading all this I would change my vote to keep it going. Scott, when you're tallying that please move one over for me. I think if we can move some of the core characters to a new adventure things would be great. They can wrap this one up, which seems like it's heading that way.

My all-star line-up team of adventurers would include... JediZombieLauren... Cell Block D Lauren... Ursala... Sam... Space Bee Arm Major...

Steve, I'm super-glad you're on board for keeping the Jam going, and your line-up is definitely cool, but as soon as I read your post I though to myself something and wanted to point it out- Your "dream team" is already operating within the NESJ.

How would we know that Ursala has mommy issues without the previous 180+ panels?
Or why there are two Lauren's?
Or why Space Bee Major has a robot arm and DHARMA duds?

Why take them out of context? They are already all together in the stripjam.
If you want to form a team of them, then you should explicitly dedicate a panel where someone suggests they are all a team.

"Let's go take down Beerock Robama! Who's with me?"
"My staff!" "and my AX" "And my Bee Arm!" etc.

We don't need to start a new jam to accomplish anything that has been suggested. We just need flexible, open-minded participants who actually pay attention to what other panels are attempting to do.

bravado-bomb

08-10-2009, 12:00 PM

I agree to all that Kkkkkarl. After I posted my dream team, I was thinking, "Wait, why don't I just make that happen!" I wasn't suggesting that a new jam would have to start with them. Just saying personally, I could care less about most of the other characters with maybe an exception here or there.

Between you and Spidey, the major is a godly epic character. Thanks for your contributions to that!

bravado-bomb

08-10-2009, 12:01 PM

PS:

"Let's go take down Beerock Robama! Who's with me?"
"My staff!" "and my AX" "And my Bee Arm!" etc.

...brilliant.

Wild&Uncouth

08-10-2009, 12:39 PM

DEATH TALLY - How many times have our characters died so far (zombies count) in the StripJam?

Mario
2 times
(shot in the face by JokerSnake in prison, shot in the face by Luigi in Asgard)

Sammy
3 times, possibly 4
(shot by Luigi, zombified in the destruction of Asgard, killed by Odin, his status 50 million years in the future is unknown)

Sam
3 times, possibly 4
(burned to death by Mario, zombified in the destruction of Asgard, killed by Odin, his status 50 million years in the future is unknown)

Luigi
2 times
(head bitten off by Yoshi, blown up in Asgard but not zombified)

Cell Block D/Sith Lauren
1 time, kind of
(KRAZYRICKY1's transformers panel. surprisingly, she has not officially died once)

Yoshi
1 time
(zombified in the destruction of Asgard)

Solid Snake
1 time
(accidental peanut butter overdose in prison- heh heh heh)

JokerSnake
2 times, possibly 3
(zombified in the destruction of Asgard, killed by Sith Lauren in his Red Snulk form, his status 50 million years in the future is unknown)

Penny Arcade Guys
0 times
(survived everything so far, good job, guys)

Beerock Robama
1 time
(blown up in Asgard but not zombified)

The Major/The General
1 time
(zombified in the destruction of Asgard)

W-Force/WuTang Samurai
3 times
(died on a mission, blown up in Asgard, stabbed in the head by ShyGuy Mel)

Michael Jackson
3 times
(zombified in the destruction of Asgard, skull-stomped by The Major, killed by Sith Lauren when she destroyed the bomb he was riding)

Star King
3 times
(cut down by the Wutang Samurai, worn like a boot and stomped to death by The General, killed by Sith Lauren when she destroyed the bomb he was riding)

Ursala
1 time, kind of
(KRAZYRICKY1's transformers panel. Officially, she has not died once. she's so innocent! kinda)

Death is only the beginning, it seems...

Wild&Uncouth

08-10-2009, 01:01 PM

Second and third string characters are as follows
Toadsworth - 2x
Midna - 1x
Dig Dug (Taizo Hori) - 1x
Genie - 1x
Kool Aid Man - 1x
M.O.F.L. Soldier (x14) - 1x
Felix the Cat - 1x
Kobun - 1x
Donkey Kong - 1x
MF Doom - 1x
Skee-Lo - 1x
Yoda - 1x
Vegeta - 2x
Han Solo - 2x
Samus Aran - 1x
Spike Spiegel - 2x
Shy Guy Mel - 1x
Amy Winehouse - 1x
Norse Heavy Metal God - 1x (kinda, KRAZYRICKY's Ursala daydream panel)

Wild&Uncouth

08-10-2009, 01:07 PM

That's a grand total of 76 deaths.
81 deaths if you count the unknown fate of Sam, Sammy and JokerSnake in the future as deaths, as well as the daydream deaths of Lauren and Ursala.
I am including all 9 members of W-Force dying twice (18 deaths).

81 deaths of varying degrees in 186 panels. That's an average of 1 death every 2.3 panels.
Not counting Sammy, Sam, and JokerSnake in the future it still comes out to 1 death every 2.4 panels.

That's a lot of killing, regardless.

Aceschock

08-10-2009, 01:15 PM

Heh... why is it whenever it gets to my turn I feel like I'm cleaning up a mess?

It's a messy job,man.

Aceschock

08-10-2009, 01:24 PM

If you start a new strip. I would not use any of the characters from the original, that way there is no confusion in what has gone before. My suggestion would be for the new strip is, Each contribtor comes up with a character (whatever they want to draw, NES, COMIC, CARTOON,OWN, whatever) and the strip has a little editorial control, but mostly it's a free for all. That is just an Idea.

colesla

08-10-2009, 10:18 PM

Colesla seems to really know what's going on too.

Thanks. I read through the entire thing every time I do a panel. I still miss some things but I try to make good contributions.

My all-star line-up team of adventurers would include:

-JediZombieLauren (like she's managed to use her jedi powers to control the zombie rage or something like that)

-cell block D Lauren fully strapped with some firepower

-Ursala with her one size fits all super strenth robot gloves, a little confused with 2 moms on the same team.

-Sammy Senior, because every team needs some 'roided out guy who looks like Abe Lincoln

-Space Bee Arm Major as their leader, the undisputed coolest character to come out of the strip jam. (undisputed in my mind anyway)

They're all original characters too, except of course the jedi reference. Such a great team of badassness!

In other news, my power is back on!!! Now I just have to try and not have another multi-million dollar electric bill.

I like all these people too, but I'm also pretty invested in the Sam, Sammy, Samus connection. Maybe its because I'm the one who revealed them to be the Samily (I think it was W and U who invented the word.) I wouldn't be upset if their part in the jam dwindled, but I still want to see them reunited. Of the four panels I've done, three have had Samus in them and two of them have been about their family ties.

ScottEwen

08-11-2009, 08:38 AM

My opinion on Turtle Boat's new thumbnail:

I think it's a bit too goofy. Anchorbird and McFinney being captured by a religious cult that clearly have no qualms about murder and believe Anchorbird is the nemesis of their king should be a serious thing. Anchorbird and McFinney are in real danger at this point and it seems like Turtle Boat's thumbnail downplays that in favor of silliness.

I cringed when I saw the church member pick his nose. I'm not saying Anchorbird can't have silliness in it, but that seems really juvenile and totally destroys any tension the scene might have had. Also McFinney's attack seems to be in vain... even if he kicks one of the church members in the face, they have all the weapons and they have way more people. If I were one of the church members I would just shoot McFinney at that point.

So, not saying you have to redo this page, but I would not shed a tear if you wanted to give it another pass.

Wild&Uncouth

08-11-2009, 09:36 AM

Goddammit, all these f*cking people dropping out and shit, now my AB page and my stripjam panel are going to wind up together. This is such bullhshit. They were MILES APART before everyone caught a mean case of the UNRELIABLES.

F*cking whatever.

Anyway.

My opinion on Turtle Boat's new thumbnail:

I think it's a bit too goofy. Anchorbird and McFinney being captured by a religious cult that clearly have no qualms about murder and believe Anchorbird is the nemesis of their king should be a serious thing. Anchorbird and McFinney are in real danger at this point and it seems like Turtle Boat's thumbnail downplays that in favor of silliness.

I cringed when I saw the church member pick his nose. I'm not saying Anchorbird can't have silliness in it, but that seems really juvenile and totally destroys any tension the scene might have had. Also McFinney's attack seems to be in vain... even if he kicks one of the church members in the face, they have all the weapons and they have way more people. If I were one of the church members I would just shoot McFinney at that point.

So, not saying you have to redo this page, but I would not shed a tear if you wanted to give it another pass.

It is a pretty hokey setup to futilely kick a guard. Not only would there be at least two guards on these guys at all times, guns trained (as in previous panels), but it's obvious that the direct motivation of the page is "McFinney needs to kick a guy" and then the "no-brainer-nose-picker" character was dreamt up.

I agree that the Lleuadists are vicious extremists, prone to eliminating anyone that stands in their misguided way. It seems odd that they would be caught with their pants down now, of all times. If McFinney was going to make a move, I would have thought he'd have done it back when he had his entire arsenal, and especially not while Anchorbird is still in custody.

Technically there isn't anything wrong with the page. Turtle Boat, please take my critique of your page as just that. I'm not asking you to redo the page, as I can totally add on to it, no problem. If you do want to retool it, let us know. I don't feel it's extremely necessary. It is totally possible for Lleuadists to have colds, and to have them all be cookie-cutter stoic shining fanatical examples of what a devote Lleuadist should be would be a generalization. It's just a tonal shift from characters being a serious threat to a being slapstick comedy. I don't dare suck comedy out of AB.

But McFinney's odd timing may have fatal consequences in the next page, though. He is acting foolishly, with all those guns trained on him and AB.

ScottEwen

08-11-2009, 10:09 AM

I'm adding three hours onto Turtle Boat's approval time because he posted it at a time when none of us were online to look at it, so now that it's up for editorial discussion, it's almost time for it to be approved. I'd like Turtle Boat to see these comments and consider revising his page before it gets approved, so now it'll be approved at 3:24 PM EST.

So now I'm writing my strip jam panel and I want to go over the current situation to make sure I have everything correct, and also figure out which plot thread I wanna do.

1. Past Lauren, Past Major, and Past Joker-Snake are standing over the smoking corpse of MF Doom when Future Sith-Lauren shows up, almost a zombie. Mario says what's going to happen is she'll try to attack Past Lauren and Luigi will save her. EDIT: Past Joker-Snake was turned into the Red Snulk, so he's dead now.

2. The General and Tycho are searching for Ursala, whom they are taking to find Luigi and have him take them to Beerock Robeema.

3. Space Bee Major and Gabe were going to stop the bomb with Lauren until she struck out on her own. Who knows where they are now.

4. Sam, Sammy, Monkey Joker-Snake, and a zombie are in the distant future of Alpha Hive 4815162342.

Wild&Uncouth

08-11-2009, 10:20 AM

That sounds about right.

One thing worth noting is that I think colesla and I concurred that Barack's name should officially be Beerock Robama, with the portmanteaus of "Bee" and "Barack" and "Robot" and "Obama."

Just to officially name him, I think that's the best version.

Also, Zombie Yoshi is with Luigi, and regular Yoshi was on the Rainbow Road with Sam and Sammy before Odin murdered the Sams. I don't know what his status is (or W-Force in the hot air balloon, for that matter- maybe they're dead again too, due to their proximity to the explosion?)

ScottEwen

08-11-2009, 10:38 AM

Something I realized drawing this panel....

this is only the third time I've drawn Lauren at all. The last time I drew her she looked like this:

http://www.scottewenart.com/mario6.jpg

How did I make it through the entire Asgard saga and Star Fortress story without ever drawing her once?

Turtle Boat

08-11-2009, 10:41 AM

i see your points. picking his nose might be a little silly, although i think it's funny as hell. idk, i really wanna keep that part, but if you guys feel it switches the mood too much then i will reconsider it.

but i'm gonna keep the part where mcfinney fights the guards. saying that one person can't fight bunch of thugs with machine guns because it's not realistic its basically throwing the whole action genre out the window. think the A-Team or jackie chan movies. This has been done numerous times before.

And if you think about it, mcfinney is supposed to be this secret agent type of fellow, so i think it's possible for him to get out of tight situations. Also, from my understanding, the guards would seem not so intent on killing them, because anchordbird and mcfinney are going to be used as sacrifices for the moon tyrant, so the guards need to keep them alive till they see the moon tyrant. another thing is, the drawing might look too goofy on the thumbnail, but i'll be sure to make it look darker or grimmer in the final page.

ScottEwen

08-11-2009, 10:46 AM

i see your points. picking his nose might be a little silly, although i think it's funny as hell. idk, i really wanna keep that part, but if you guys feel it switches the mood too much then i will reconsider it.

I think it does switch the mood a bit. Think of it like Star Wars... a movie that merges seriousness with comedy very well. There are jokes and even goofy stuff peppered throughout the movie, but imagine if they got to the scene where the Death Star destroys Alderaan, and then while everyone is reacting to what happened, Chewbacca farted.

That's kind of what this plays like. We're in a serious part of the story, and a part of the story where the main characters are in serious danger. Nose picking jokes are just out of place.

Turtle Boat

08-11-2009, 10:54 AM

damn, that's a good point. alright, so i'll change the nose picking, bt i'm probly not gonna meet the deadline because i'm at work right now. bt since the later part of the page is gonna be the same, (where mcfinney knocks out one of the guards,) you could go to the next person on line.

Wild&Uncouth

08-11-2009, 10:55 AM

TurtleBoat, if you're looking to revise the nose-picking part, might I suggest a couple "for instances?"

1) The guard could trip. It's dark. They're walking around ancient ruins with debris. He could be talking shit when all of a sudden he stumbles right into an opportunistic McFinney.

2) McFinney could do some Lleuadist wrangling simply by moving weird, faking he's tripped, etc. McFinney is definitely an opportunistic person (he's a survivor), so he could maybe have the Lleuadists in his immediate vicinity fooled into thinking they have him guarded, then he could Solid-Snake the situation, using Lleaudists as cover from other Lleuadists looking to shoot at him and AB, etc.

There are a couple things you could do to set up McFinney getting the drop on their captors, and depending on how well you write it, you could be setting me up for some cool shit to do.

Wild&Uncouth

08-11-2009, 10:59 AM

In the end, you're just looking for the right kind of fluffer setup for a fight scene, whether it be nose-picking or something else.

What kind of fluff you decide on dictates the tone of the fight that will follow.

caseycp

08-11-2009, 11:51 AM

Casey I friggin love the look of this page. makes me want to see it animated. Have a great flight.
Thanks Godwin. I hate the way the exported Jpeg always seems "washed-out" compared to the original art in Photoshop. So in anticipation of that, i really boosted the saturation. I don't know about the result, though...it looks a bit too cartoony.

caseycp

08-11-2009, 11:52 AM

hehe...fluffer.

Wild&Uncouth

08-11-2009, 11:55 AM

aaaaaaaaaa

Dammit. my computer at work is acting up again and won't let me paste text into my comments.

I just wrote a funny observation about bodé.

colesla

08-11-2009, 12:03 PM

I meant to put Zombie Yoshi in my panel next to Mario, but I forgot about him.

[QUOTE=Wild&Uncouth;1063454] then he could Solid-Snake the situation, using Lleaudists as cover from other Lleuadists looking to shoot at him and AB, etc.

Somehow, mentioning Solid-Snake in conjunction with Anchorbird makes me cringe.

Wild&Uncouth

08-11-2009, 12:06 PM

btw, you want to talk about funny- I think it's funny how Bodé isn't the stereotypical animal that you usually see in other stories. You know the kind I'm talking about- the kind that knows the differences between good and evil and will instinctively cause a ruckus when evil is around.

Bodé totally hung out with AB and Jack. They got captured. And now Bodé just stands around, like ANY OTHER MOUNT WOULD DO UNLESS PROVOKED.

Horses don't give a shit about whether or not evil has claimed you. They just want someone to take that uncomfortable bit out of their mouth and their saddle off their back, then be given some hay or an apple. Perhaps a sugar cube.

Wild&Uncouth

08-11-2009, 12:14 PM

Somehow, mentioning Solid-Snake in conjunction with Anchorbird makes me cringe.

I know! It's like- When was Solid Snake EVER in the jungle with no weapons, surrounded by enemies? Besides, McFinney's purple like the Phantom. Not blue like Snake!<---PATRONIZING GOOD-NATURED SARCASM

Open your eyes, colesla. There are definitely parallels.

Turtle Boat

08-11-2009, 12:21 PM

yea, bt mcfinney looks french...wait was he australian?

Wild&Uncouth

08-11-2009, 12:37 PM

McFinney has an Irish accent (it has not been explicitly stated he is from Ireland though, although it is insinuated that McFinney is from Earth circa WWII).

Wild&Uncouth

08-11-2009, 01:41 PM

Nice panel, Scott!
You always have such controlled, dyanimc inks. They're tight.

I love how we're keeping the "amuck" consistent with Taro Mochi's introduction to the word, even though it's misspelled. It's a StripJam injoke I don't get tired of.

ScottEwen

08-11-2009, 02:15 PM

I love how we're keeping the "amuck" consistent with Taro Mochi's introduction to the word, even though it's misspelled. It's a StripJam injoke I don't get tired of.

I know, I love it too. I'm also really glad it was introduced because it made an easy shorthand for me to say "she's not a zombie yet aaaaand now she is" in one single panel.

ScottEwen

08-11-2009, 04:24 PM

I just realized colesla's last panel (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1046372) was genius. In a few lines of dialogue he managed to dictate what would happen with the story for the next few panels.

I need to figure out how to have a character show up and say "here's what happens next" for every one of my panels from now on.

Wild&Uncouth

08-11-2009, 04:58 PM

Hey Turtleboat, in your AB script you wrote that Gruesmark notices chance and kicks guard instead of McFinney.

You mihgt want to edit that before someone gets confused. People get confused on here pretty easily.

ScottEwen

08-11-2009, 05:43 PM

DEATH TALLY - How many times have our characters died so far (zombies count) in the StripJam?

Cell Block D/Sith Lauren
1 time, kind of
(KRAZYRICKY1's transformers panel. surprisingly, she has not officially died once)

Now she has! She's a zombie, runnin' all amuck.

larq2525

08-11-2009, 07:57 PM

If you cross your fingers hard enough, my new Anchorbird page may be up tonight (a whole day early, even!). Most likely it'll drop sometime tomorrow, though. Just wanted to drop by and give the heads up that it's on it's way.

Went ahead and threw my next placeholder in the AB forum as well. I can't get enough of those anchors and birds. I've got a great idea for a one-off page that I was going to do next, but with T-Boat setting Karl up for an awesome fight scene, depending on how Karl's page ends I may have to try my hand at the chaos as well and save my other idea for next time. This spit is so exciting!

larq2525

08-11-2009, 08:00 PM

Oh, and Jesse, if you're floating around here, you gotta update www.jessemunoz.com/anchorbird with some new combined pages. I keep going there to see if you've stuck the new ones together and I always leave unfulfilled.

Wild&Uncouth

08-11-2009, 08:42 PM

Hey Rian, in the future could you please wait to drop a placeholder until after you've posted your page on the blog? Technically it is against the rules. Only two active placeholders are permitted.

I've always viewed the practice of two "in play" placeholders as a sort of reward system, where you get to jump back in once you've accomplished your previous page.

Sorry to harp on you, but you've been jumping the gun a bit in this regard and I don't want everyone else to think it's ok to get loose with their placeholder postings.

ScottEwen

08-12-2009, 04:48 PM

Rian, how's your page coming along? There's about five hours left until the deadline and I just wanna make sure it's close to being done.

larq2525

08-12-2009, 06:52 PM

I've gotta finish coloring my page, but it's almost done. I'm at work right now, but I should be home by 10:30 and I'll finish it up then. It may not be uploaded by midnight, but it'll be there before I go to sleep tonight. Gay-ron-teed.

ScottEwen

08-12-2009, 06:53 PM

larq2525

08-13-2009, 04:03 AM

Gads! It took me longer to finish those colors than I thought it would, but my new Anchorbird page is now up on the blog. It's currently just after 6am, so it's only about 6 hours late (not that I'm sure anyone's really counting since I'm probably the only AB contributer awake right now...).

Can't wait to get to work on my next rough. I'm pretty excited to see where Karl takes the story after Turtle Boat's sweet set-up, too.

Long live Anchorbird!

Aceschock

08-13-2009, 04:15 AM

Your not the only one man!

Wild&Uncouth

08-13-2009, 06:19 AM

Finished my NESJ panel, now I'm moving on to AB.

In case anyone is growing impatient, I was granted a one day extension by Scott on one of the two due dates. I chose Anchorbird, and it will be posted sometime before midday Friday.

I was hoping to have them both done today, but at work my dept's just got handed a crap-load of "HOT" projects, meaning that the managers want things done but sat on them for weeks or months before they realized they have to tell us about projects and provide information if they want things to be produced. It's rush job central for the next week.

What this means for me is that I didn't have a copious amount of time today to finish my NESJ panel— hence why I'm posting this in the middle of the night— and I probably won't have time to do too much at work today either.

Good news is my AB page is written. I just have to rough it out.

ScottEwen

08-13-2009, 09:38 AM

Aceschock, I noticed your page is finished on your deviantART. Just to remind you, once Rian posts his page on the blog, you can post your page, but postdate it for the day after. That way there aren't two pages going up on the same day. I noticed we had that happen a couple times in the last two weeks.

Man, c'mon. I asked you to do that for a reason.

ScottEwen

08-13-2009, 09:47 AM

Wild&Uncouth

08-13-2009, 09:57 AM

Great panel, Karl. The nudity concerns me a little bit... not that she's naked in your panel, but where this is going to go if she continues to stay naked in the story. Please be respectful of the character, guys, and remember that nudity is okay on Penciljack as long as it's artistic and not graphic.

Yeah, I reviewed the Penciljack guidelines to make sure what I did was allowed.

That's why I explicitly drew both Lauren's wardrobes spiraling around her- so that she can promptly get dressed again (hopefully in the Sith get-up).

But I know that you're not concerned with me. You're concerned with what others might do. I gotcha.

godwin

08-13-2009, 10:27 AM

I was hoping to have them both done today, but at work my dept's just got handed a crap-load of "HOT" projects, meaning that the managers want things done but sat on them for weeks or months before they realized they have to tell us about projects and provide information if they want things to be produced. It's rush job central for the next week.

.

I can relate to this. i worked for one sign company and the salesman would come in on a friday saying they needed a mock up to show a ( potential ) client. Meanwhile I am working on a 30.000 dollar project that's a done deal. the pisser was they knew they needed that mock up days before. My boss wold smile, grab them by the arm and lead them out of the office.

bravado-bomb

08-13-2009, 11:27 AM

@KarlSavagery

Best NESJ panel EVER!

Rock the funk on.

NickRocks

08-13-2009, 12:20 PM

oh.

my.

oh my.

I approve.

Aceschock

08-13-2009, 12:26 PM

Wild&Uncouth

08-13-2009, 12:35 PM

Sorry, Scott. I deleted it off the site til my deadline due date. Guess That's "Two" Against me. I 'll post it when it needs to be posted and not earlier in the future. Thought, it would be cool...but I see by the concern it is not.

No Schock, Scott wanted you to DATE it differently so it didn't fall under the same DATE as Rian's.

Scott already fixed it for you so that it appeared as being posted on August 13th. You didn't need to delete it.

Read your shit slowly, man! The disconnect is coming from you breezing over shit. Just read slower!

NOW POST YOUR PAGE BACK UP.

ScottEwen

08-13-2009, 12:38 PM

Sorry, Scott. I deleted it off the site til my deadline due date. Guess That's "Two" Against me. I 'll post it when it needs to be posted and not earlier in the future. Thought, it would be cool...but I see by the concern it is not.

Well, it's not a huge deal, but I'd prefer that only one page of Anchorbird goes up per day. The reason is that when you look at Anchorbird with an RSS reader, the newest page comes up first. This is potentially very confusing for readers who are following the RSS feed. Anchorbird is confusing enough already, I want to keep it as simple and easy to follow as we can.

Deleting the post off the blog doesn't really do much, either, since it will have already been sent to RSS readers. In other words, they will just be seeing your page twice. It's one of those things that, once it's done, you can't really undo it, but in the future please postdate your pages rather than immediately putting them up once the person before you does.

You can use the "postdate" feature to automatically have Blogger post the page for you the following day, just use that.

Aceschock

08-13-2009, 12:45 PM

Okay, I'll do that in the future.

ScottEwen

08-13-2009, 12:47 PM

By the way, this is for anyone who doesn't know how the use the "postdate" feature.

When you go to "new post" on Blogspot, at the bottom left corner is a little arrow that says Post Options.

Click on that and you can change the date to a day later.

Wild&Uncouth

08-13-2009, 12:54 PM

Oh, ok.
Sorry, Schock. I guess I misunderstood Scott as well (in the vein of I didn't know the ins and outs of post-dating, but understood that there should only be one post a day).

Now we know, and knowing's half the battle. The other half is comprised of a quarter red lasers and a quarter blue lasers.

BTW, I know my newest NESJ panel has certain eye-catchers (re: boobies), but I really have to give myself a pat on the back and point out my rendition of Zombie Yoshi. I'm really happy with the way he turned out! His gut are hangin' out! C'mon! That's awesome.

Aceschock

08-13-2009, 01:08 PM

okay now it will post tommorw....But it will still be there today.

ScottEwen

08-13-2009, 01:27 PM

Hey, for anyone who spends way too much time doing the flat colors for their Strip Jam or Anchorbird pages, I found this thread the other day: 90883.

I just tried out this technique on a page of Lightshade and it works really great. You can go from taking an hour to flat-color your pages to literally having it done in ten minutes.

colesla

08-13-2009, 05:02 PM

I don't want to be that guy, but let's face it. I am that guy. Karl, would you consider censoring your panel? You just raised the maturity level of the jam to a degree I'm not entirely comfortable with.

I know, I know. I can practically hear the comments now. No, I'm not gay and yes, I do realize that it was artistically done and not particularly dirty or smutty. I'm not trying to make demands here. Its not my right to say what does or doesn't belong in the strip jam but I'd consider it a favor to me if the strip jam didn't literally become the "strip" jam. (I know. Bad pun.)

Sorry to be that guy, but I don't see myself participating in the future if this thing includes nudity. Call me old-fashioned or a prude or whatever but that's who I am and that's how I live.

ScottEwen

08-13-2009, 05:20 PM

I know, I know. I can practically hear the comments now. No, I'm not gay and yes, I do realize that it was artistically done and not particularly dirty or smutty. I'm not trying to make demands here. Its not my right to say what does or doesn't belong in the strip jam but I'd consider it a favor to me if the strip jam didn't literally become the "strip" jam. (I know. Bad pun.)

Phil Clark and airbrushartist don't post in this thread, so I don't think anyone's gonna call you gay for saying that, but I kinda foresaw this coming. I debated today about whether or not to ask Karl to censor that panel and I decided to hold off unless someone complained about it.

The fact is, artistic nudity (i.e. life drawings, tasteful nudity) is acceptable on Penciljack as long as it's not graphic. The definition of "graphic" isn't well defined, but generally there need to be warnings in place because a lot of people check Penciljack from work. Putting "NSFW" or "nudity" in subject titles makes it so people who would get in trouble for looking at nude art at work aren't going to click on it. People don't expect there to be nudity in the strip jam and so might be taken by surprise to see tits.

I'm not sure whether or not Karl should censor the panel just yet (which would probably be easy, just put another piece of clothing in front of the nipples ala Shanna the She-Devil). I'm going to take this question to the Board Room and see what the other mods say.

Spidey

08-13-2009, 06:04 PM

Aww, don't censor it. Boobs will bring in more participants. As long as a bare chest is as risqué as it gets I don't see a problem with it. We're all big boys here, whether we act like it or not.

Does this mean new outfit for Lauren or is she going to stay naked? Stay tuned trusty viewers! Only time (and bballer's decision) will tell!

bravado-bomb

08-13-2009, 06:57 PM

@Scott

I just tried that plug-in for flatting. SOOOO EASY! I mean you have to have a clean art style for it to really be worth it but it really saves some time. There were a couple spots that weren't perfect that I'd have to fix, but I'd rather do a few minutes of that than 1-3 hours of flatting, depending on the page.

I remember seeing something like this posted on deviantart forever ago that I may have mentioned to Karl in passing, but it looked way more confusing than this one and not nearly as effective. I seriously downloaded the one you linked to, dropped it into my plug-in folder, and flatted a clean black and white illustration in about 5 minutes including the little touch ups here and there. That illustration originally took me about 30-40 minutes to flat. You've just improved my life by leaps and bounds. Thanks man!

Wild&Uncouth

08-13-2009, 07:38 PM

This is the only thing I will say about this request for censorship. I am against censorship as a whole, although I do understand and can sympathize why it's used at times to keep things "appropriate" for certain audiences.

Colesla, I can't do this favor for you.

The Never-Ending StripJam is the Calvin-Ball of drawing games. There are no set-in-stone rules besides 'keep the story going.' We are only limited by the rules we must adhere to put forth by the Penciljack Forums. All of the content of the 188 panels posted so far (including my latest) falls within the rules set forth by Penciljack.

Penciljack's Etiquette and Guidelines thread (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/announcement.php?f=16&a=23), which I read before I decided to leave Lauren's chest exposed, states—

Tasteful nudity or comic violence is not discouraged. This doesn't include deviant or puerile displays of gratuitous or implied sexual intercourse or violent images and will be edited at the discretion of the moderators... ...Thread titles need not warn anyone as it ends up calling attention to the thread and will be edited to avoid that.

We're all adults here. Colesla, you're the evil(or opposite) version of me. I'm Karl. You're Carl. We're the same age. I'm comfortable with nudity. You are not. I can't believe I didn't see this coming. (tongue in cheek, people, I'm being friendly here). But yeah, we're all adults.

When you asked me to censor my panel I cringed. Here are my reasons why:

1) Censoring my panel is besides the point.
Whether or not Lauren is censored, her nudity has still made it a "strip" jam. Lauren's still nude in my panel, whether there's a piece of cloth in front of her or not. That means the next person, in this case BBALLER, has to do something with her nude-ness, OR he can opt not to draw her and instead draw one of the other characters doing something (lord knows there's a lot going on).

BBALLER doesn't have to draw bare breasts, nor should he feel forced to. But whether he draws her or not, there's still a nude woman. The only way for there NOT to be nudity is if I totally redid my panel and drew her completely clothed (which I won't do).

2) It sets a precedent of censorship that is not natural to the concept of the stripjam.
We've all wished at times that Scott has just deleted or denied the submission of a completely bullshit panel. To his credit, he never has. The stripjam has remained completely pure, despite all the dumb stuff that's happened. It all gets woven into newer dumb shit.

As much as you don't want to contribute to a jam with the ever present threat of dirty nudity, I don't want to contribute to a jam with the threat of censorship looming over my head, with big black bars ripping across people's drawings. Not just for nudity, mind you, but for all the graphic violence as well.

Penciljack's rulebook addresses nudity together with violence. The stripjam has been SUPER-VIOLENT. I did the math not too long ago. Someone dies on average in the stripjam once every 2.7 panels. Yoshi's guts are hanging out in my newest panel. Why does that get a pass while two harmless breasts don't?

Why aren't these panels censored?
Sam gets off on vibrating cell phone (http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa186/makothebeast/scan0002-4.jpg)
Lauren's nipples visible through her dress (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l48/NickGuy_2006/Snakeforstripjam.jpg)
Yoshi chomps Luigi's head off (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Popninja/pjsj02.jpg)
Sometimes a banana is just a banana? (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Spyderizzle/cj-panel-3.jpg)
The Major gets snapped into like a slimjim (http://www.scottewenart.com/mario18.png)
Vegeta gets halved (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3393/3568637436_9d3b7656bd_o.jpg)
Wutang Samurai murdered in the head (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/SeanJKS/PJStripJam6-7-09.jpg)
Lauren slices several zombies clean in half (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3328/3641812485_8ff0c2e5bd_o.png)
Mario gets shot in face (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l48/NickGuy_2006/stripjampanel.jpg)
Star King stomped to death (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/ShogunJL/neverending2lettered.jpg)

Every one of these examples are just as graphic as my latest panel, and some of them are not NEARLY as tasteful.

Everyone should check out Penn & Teller's BULLSH*T show's 5th season episode entitled "Breast Hysteria." If you have a Netflix account it is available to 'Play Now' online. They're just breasts, people. They serve larger functions besides sexual ones.

Finally— My MOTIVATION.
Weren't we JUST voting not even three days ago about whether the StripJam should end? I seem to recall that happening. I have to be honest— I don't want it to end, and I don't feel like I have a lot to lose by doing exactly what I feel like doing in the stripjam. It might very well be my last panel for all I know. Making my subject matter more risqué (to some) might also renew waning interests of other participants, btw. I've got my thinking cap on.

Also, Hello People! Lauren is a F*CKING GODDESS.
She's 25 million years old (none of that time was spent as a zombie), she mastered the Sith arts despite having no force powers, she took out a humungous horde of zombies when she sacrificed herself on board the Star Fortress and in doing so saved Sam and The Major, then she finally brought us 25 million years back through time to sacrifice herself AGAIN to save Asgard from destruction at the hands of Michael Jackson and the Star King(which The General is unrightfully taking credit for).
And what was Lauren doing during her final breaths as the zombie infection claimed her life? All she could do was think and worry about whether or not she saved her friends.

Show some respect, people.
Lauren is better than every single one of us.
Did you kill Amy Winehouse? NO! Lauren did.

I really hope you continue to participate, colesla.

bravado-bomb

08-13-2009, 07:54 PM

I'm with Karl. That is one of the best looking pages we've had so far, regardless of the boobs. Not to mention one of the OTHER best pages of the strip so far was when Karl drew her taking down all the zombies. Karl's awesome... don't censor awesomeness, that's crazy talk! I really hope you keep going either way colesla, I love your panels too. We don't have to have Lauren KEEP being naked. Someone just get her in a new badass costume and we're good to keep on rockin'! The only thing that even crossed my mind when seeing the nudity was me wondering if there were kids looking at this who are really young. But to be honest, with all the violence and swearing, parents shouldn't really be letting there kids read this anyway. I don't care if Mario is in it! If a kid has managed to make it this far reading the strip, then I'm sure he's mature enough to handle a little tasteful nudity.

PS: Karl, clicking on your links of death made me giggle like a little kid. Joel's page of the general wearing the star king as a sneaker is PRICELESS. Good times.

ScottEwen

08-13-2009, 07:55 PM

Devil's advocate mode here:

Karl, I personally agree with everything you've said, as breasts don't offend me at all and I am 100% against censorship.

However. I am a moderator of Penciljack, and one of my main duties is to uphold the rules of the site, which means sometimes I have to censor stuff. Right now your panel is sort of in a grey area for me, where I'm not sure whether it's acceptable or not. The reason why is that, if it were posted in the "Finished Art" lab with a "NSFW" warning, it would be perfectly fine, but the Strip Jam does not have a NSFW warning, nor is there any indication that someone might see nudity in reading the Strip Jam.

Again, you or I may not care about seeing boobs, but employers often do, and people who surf Penciljack from work might often avoid the NSFW threads because they don't wanna get fired. I don't want the Strip Jam to have to start having warnings on it, and I certainly don't want to have to start linking images that are too graphic to be displayed in the thread. I'd rather all the images be visible when you're scanning the thread so you don't have to click on stuff.

If the other mods seem to think it's okay, I'll trust their judgment. Honestly I never know how to react when nudity comes up here because I almost feel like I'm not sure what's "tasteful" and what's not. I've been called out a few times for drawing nude art that I've thought was tasteful but that other people thought was over the line. I don't consider myself a good judge of what's "too far."

Just to be clear, I'm not saying you have to change it at all, but I am concerned that this panel is going to start taking us into more "mature" area where I do have to start censoring stuff.

Wild&Uncouth

08-13-2009, 08:10 PM

I hear you, Scott. I understood your position before I wrote my big to-do. I even addressed it directly in an earlier draft but it got cut out.

Penciljack's NSFW guidelines are a different issue than colesla's preternatural edginess around human mammary glands. I know it's ultimately up to you and the other PJ mods. If they censor me? That will suck.
But you talk about the warnings. I haven't seen any threads labeled NSFW, but admittedly, i don't stray too far outside NESJ and AB. Labeling a post NSFW seems like the same thing as that bit I quoted in the guidelines—

...Thread titles need not warn anyone as it ends up calling attention to the thread and will be edited to avoid that.

Why exactly are blood and guts 'Safe For Work?' The bigger question is of course about the double-standard of "yay to violence"/"nay to nudity" shame spiral debate that continues to rage on and in our Christian-founded country, but I digress. But to go along with that, I'm assuming it's SFW if you're caught looking at blood and guts— you're dismissed as sadistic and juvenile. Yet if you're caught looking at a drawing of breasts, you're a pervert getting off in the workplace(?). How does that work?

I'm not about to talk up my own work nor compare myself to these classically-trained masters of the arts, but should John Collier's Lady Godiva (http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/85042/1/Lady-Godiva.jpg) be labeled NSFW? What about Salvador Dali's 'Female Seated Nude?' (http://buydalipainting.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/female-seated-nude-circa-1960.jpg)

Really, the way I see it, The Never-Ending StripJam should have been labeled NSFW a long time ago. It's f*cked up.

(but then again, when I write **** or ****kity ****, or how about f u c k (HEY! IT WORKS!) it gets censored, so who knows?)

ScottEwen

08-13-2009, 08:22 PM

But you talk about the warnings. I haven't seen any threads labeled NSFW, but admittedly, i don't stray too far outside NESJ and AB. Labeling a post NSFW seems like the same thing as that bit I quoted in the guidelines—

...Thread titles need not warn anyone as it ends up calling attention to the thread and will be edited to avoid that.

Yeah, that's something I'm not quite clear on either. About a year or so ago, nudity was not allowed at all on PJ. At some point the mods decided tasteful nudity was okay as long as it didn't go too far. However, every single time someone posts a naked drawing on this site, someone inevitably says "you should link that or put up a warning," and then the entire thread devolves into a discussion about what's acceptable on PJ.com and what's not. Every. Single. Time. Therefore, when I see a thread that says "Girl with Big Boobs (Nudity)," I leave the warning on there because maybe then people won't complain. It seems like a dumb rule to allow nudity but then not allow warnings about the nudity, because all it does it get people riled up. I'm in favor of the warnings.

The big question is, and it's the double-standard that continues to rage on and on in all capacities, is this—
Why exactly are blood and guts 'Safe For Work?' I'm assuming it's because if you're caught looking at blood and guts, you're dismissed as sadistic and juvenile, yet if you're caught looking at a drawing of breasts, you're a pervert getting off in the workplace? How does that work?

Also a good point. I don't censor graphic violence either unless someone complains, but generally no one does. I can count on one hand the number of times someone has said "that's too gory, it should be linked," but showing nipple will get someone chastised without fail. I don't know why that is either.

I'm not about to talk up my own work nor compare myself to these classically-trained masters of the arts, but should John Collier's Lady Godiva (http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/85042/1/Lady-Godiva.jpg) be labeled NSFW? What about Salvador Dali's 'Female Seated Nude?' (http://buydalipainting.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/female-seated-nude-circa-1960.jpg)

The first one would be fine, but that second one would definitely cause a 5-page flame war about whether it's art or pornography, and end up getting the thread shut down.

Wild&Uncouth

08-13-2009, 08:27 PM

The opening to Ghost In The Shell is one of the most beautiful sequences of animation I have ever seen. It's of a naked cyborg being born. That's the context in which I viewed Lauren's "resurrection."

Anywho, I hope I'm not censored. And I hope colesla understands my position and continues to contribute.

I don't think it would be too fair if my panel gets censored because of what people after me might draw. My panel is not inappropriate.
If someone after me crosses the line into inappropriate territory then they should be the ones who get censored. Am I wrong with that rationalization?

Besides, my panel isn't nearly as filthy as that perverted twisted painting by that f*ck Dali, right?
Painting spread minge?
What's his deal?
Probably weened to early.
Pervert.

Also, Scott you may want to label your PJ Artblog thread NSFW, because I just found this image!!!
http://www.scottewenart.com/bridgman/003.jpg

*GASP!*
I could've gotten fired for looking at that!
WARNINGS! WE NEED MORE WARNINGS!!!
SAVE THE CHILDREN!

Sorry, now I'm just being obnoxious. I'm finished.

Aceschock

08-14-2009, 02:43 AM

I could understand censoring it if it was graphic, Sex, and all that jazz. But, **** man..........(sorry SASA ghost got out of my head) It art. This is nothing more than what you would see in an art muesum. I say Leave it be!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 07:23 AM

ScottEwen

08-14-2009, 07:30 AM

Scott, I just logged in and saw the edit to my posting, and while I feel it's still completely unnecessary and now adds unwanted attention to my panel (I feel like I'm about to see something extremely distasteful and dirty with that warning you put up), if that's the compromise I have to make. Then fine.

Did you put those NSFW's up on any other panels?

I didn't want to have to add warnings, but someone in the Board Room suggested I do that and I thought it was a fair compromise and keeping with the rules of the site. It will also hopefully keep anyone else from complaining about it.

There aren't any other panels with nudity so there's nothing else that needs warnings. There are panels with violence but nothing that gory that needs warnings.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 07:40 AM

Yeah. sure. ANyway. I put my own spin on the warning to match my feelings on the presence of any warning at all.

dfbovey

08-14-2009, 08:11 AM

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 08:19 AM

We've loosened the rules here to allow the posting of tasteful nudity, I hope people appreciate that and that they also understand that it's also a common courtesy to give a warning. As has been mentioned, people do view Penciljack from work. And not every employer would be understanding or share the same views on nudity when it comes to the work place (tastefully done or not).

I respectfully disagree. Just like the PJ etiquette and guidelines state - Thread titles need not warn anyone as it ends up calling attention to the thread and will be edited to avoid that.

The tag draws unnecessary attention and skews the context. That common courtesy angle is a bunch of hooey. People shouldn't be websurfing at work anyway. I don't know of a single employer who's like, "Oh yeah, totally wander around the internet on my dime. It's cool." People are covertly looking at non-work-related internet sites at work all the time, and they do so with the discretion needed to pretend like they're not when a boss walks by.

dfbovey

08-14-2009, 08:21 AM

It doesn't matter if you disagree or not.

ScottEwen

08-14-2009, 08:22 AM

Also, Scott you may want to label your PJ Artblog thread NSFW, because I just found this image!!!
http://www.scottewenart.com/bridgman/003.jpg

I just saw this because you edited your post and I didn't see it before.

To be fair, I was not a moderator when I posted those images in my sketchblog. If someone complained about it I probably would add a warning.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 08:25 AM

Scott, you can remove the rest of my placeholders on NESJ. I'm done.

ScottEwen

08-14-2009, 08:26 AM

Scott, you can remove the rest of my placeholders on NESJ. I'm done.

C'mon, Karl, don't be like that. You're blowing this way out of proportion.

dfbovey

08-14-2009, 08:26 AM

Wow, what a baby. Carry on...

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 08:27 AM

If anything deserves a NSFW tag, it's the entire NESJ THREAD, not my posting.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 08:29 AM

Wow, what a baby. Carry on...

Don't you know anything? THis is the first step in causing a commotion and getting attention. You throw a fit and threaten to quit. It works surprisingly well. Then you start negotiations. Duh.

dfbovey

08-14-2009, 08:40 AM

I'm one of the people that kinda helped push the forum to loosen up on the no nudity rules that were in place. Because I don't see anything wrong with it myself as long as it's done tastefully. In the past, your work would have either been posted as a link or removed completely.

I hope you can at least appreciate that you are now allowed to post an image like this in line here. I also hope that you can tolerate the small concession and not bitch too much about having a warning to go along with it.

Just relax.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 08:47 AM

Oh, now you're the good cop?

Here's the bottom line- This thread is not safe for work. It depicts brutal slayings of a number of beloved characters. A character dies on average once every 2.7 panels.

If all this were animated the point would really be made that this stuff is appallingly graphic. You wouldn't want to see people getting their heads shot off in a series of moving pictures.

There is extreme violence, gore, and now one panel of nudity. This entire thread is NSFW.

Also, a NSFW tag on the thread doesn't do anything. Outside of the NESJ contributors, I bet there's barely a handful of people that read this thing.

I think the "Common Courtesy" should be placed in the Thread's TITLE, not on my post. My post is pretty much in line with everything else that's been posted.

That should be Scott's small concession on behalf of all the readers and contributors. A warning belongs in the title. Not on my post.

dfbovey

08-14-2009, 09:03 AM

I'm not here to play good cop or bad cop. One way to get on my bad side though, is to show disrespect to moderators the way you have in this thread. Going back and editing a post in a very antagonistic way, provoking confrontation is very troll like. I've come down much harder on people who have acted this way in the past. And out of respect for Scott I've been very lenient on you to this point.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 09:35 AM

Any comment meant to provoke can be considered "trollish." Calling me a baby is trollish.

The huge deal out of a small thing stems out of this- The Never-Ending StripJam has contained graphic violence, strong language, and anatomically suggestive things (bulging packages, nipples seen through dresses) since the beginning.

The Never-Ending StripJam deserves the tag, not my post. I don't deserve the wrap on the knuckles. We just need to do what's long been over-due- Mark the thead as NSFW. Because it is not safe for work.

No egos here. This is common sense. All the content in this thread is equal to and/or greater than that of a Savage Dragon comic book. Blood and boobs abound. Savage Dragon sits on the 16+ shelf in some comic book stores. So should the NESJ.

This ins't even a concession. You moderators lose NO FACE over this. You're just updating your rules and regs.

EDIT- I just realized this post reiterates the exact same points as I just made. Ironically, i was driving to work in between the two posts, and I guess recited the same thing to myself during the drive. Besides the point, of course.

ScottEwen

08-14-2009, 09:41 AM

I don't deserve the wrap on the knuckles.

Karl, I don't know why you're looking at this as a wrap on the knuckles. Nobody's chastising you for posting a nude picture, nobody's saying you shouldn't have done it. I'm fine with it, dfbovey's fine with it, so are all the other mods.

It was just a simple NSFW warning. Nobody's trying to oppress you or censor you, it's just a simple thing to make sure people who don't want to see tits aren't going to see them.

Anyway, the point is moot now because I added a NSFW warning at the beginning of the thread and deleted it from your post. I hate to do that because it's making it seem like you won by throwing a tantrum, but honestly I'd much rather have the warning at the top of the thread than on every individual post that someone complains about. I'd rather not have any warnings, but I have to make compromises too.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 09:49 AM

I apologize for the 'tantrum.' dgbovey's imposing presence threw me off. It seemed like he was now speaking for you and scolding me, and it was very off-putting.

I didn't 'win', btw. I think it was an oversight on all our parts that this thread wasn't labeled with an NSFW tag earlier.
I hate that my panel was the calayst, but once it happened, I had to stick to my guns. I operated in the rulebook, and the requirement of a NSFW tag was nowhere in the rules I read. (I didnt even know what NSFW meant until about a week ago, btw. Literally RIGHT before all this blew up). Once we clearly defined it's proper application, I only wanted fair treatment under the entire umbrella of NSFW.

We all won? Let's say that. Well all won.

dfbovey

08-14-2009, 09:58 AM

Your tantrum started before I ever responded to this thread.

When a moderator edits your post and you spit in his face by re-editing it with the comments you did, it's a smack in the face to the people who put a lot of effort and time into running this site and who organize projects like this one. It's disrespectful. I took personal offense to it, and you put Scott in an awkward position when you did it.

ScottEwen

08-14-2009, 09:58 AM

Karl, you're right that the rules and guidelines are outdated. They say that warnings are not necessary and will be deleted, but they clearly are necessary if you've seen any threads with nudity in them. People get worked up over nipples.

It's not a perfect science and most of the time the moderators have to use their discretion to decide what's acceptable and what's not. To me, none of the panels in the strip jam require NSFW warnings except for yours, but that's my opinion and it obviously differs from yours.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 10:03 AM

P.S. Scott, I am sorry for this morning's posts. I had just woken up was not pleased with what I saw. I overreacted a bit on my NESJ post. Then my comments were (rightly) deleted, but now I definitely felt like I was under attack and being censored. It took me a groggy couple of posts before I could rationally type things out without making overly-provocative statements.

I was concerned for the impact of my artwork, and I felt a NSFW tag at the beginning of my post, with those big spaces before the art, really brought unnecessary attention to such a juvenile aspect of the subject matter.

A NSFW tag on an individual's post within a thread is comparable to a recording of a man saying "THIS SONG HAS STRONG LANGUAGE" right before you listen to a music track. The warning should be on the cover, not on the page.

So once again, I'm sorry. I know you mods are just trying to do what you think is best.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 10:23 AM

ANCHORBIRD

My new page rough will be up around 1pm Pacific Time.

KRAZYRICKY1

08-14-2009, 12:02 PM

WOW!
Karl awesome page, your art has been excellent thus-far in t the strip jam, and yes I stand by you on this even though you have disliked my efforts in the past. For the people that or after him, please follow the guidelines with your post and respect the character (Cause there is nothing negative about Karls). thx

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 02:31 PM

Thanks for the support, KRAZYRICKY1. I've never had anything personally against your stripjam panels. It's only when you confuse the continuity that I get perturbed, and that's a pet peeve that's applied to everyone. I'm glad you liked my newest panel!

In other ANCHORBIRD news, my rough for page 41 is now UP for review!

jessemunoz

08-14-2009, 02:43 PM

Nice work Karl!
Now thats an anchorbird page!

ScottEwen

08-14-2009, 05:38 PM

Great page Karl.

larq2525

08-14-2009, 06:03 PM

Oh man, Karl you set me up perfectly for the next Anchorbird page I wanted to do. Can't wait until your page is officially approved so I can work up my rough and script.

ScottEwen

08-14-2009, 06:05 PM

Oh man, Karl you set me up perfectly for the next Anchorbird page I wanted to do. Can't wait until your page is officially approved so I can work up my rough and script.

I don't have any problem with Karl's page. SeanRM hasn't said anything yet, but I'm fairly sure there aren't going to be any major changes if you wanted to go ahead and get started.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 06:31 PM

The best part about when it's my turn is I don't have to send out a grammar/spellcheck pm!

larq2525

08-14-2009, 06:54 PM

I don't have any problem with Karl's page. SeanRM hasn't said anything yet, but I'm fairly sure there aren't going to be any major changes if you wanted to go ahead and get started.

I just wrote the script and e-mailed it to myself. When I get home from work I'll rough it up.

godwin

08-14-2009, 06:59 PM

Just catching up with the discussion thread, wow Karl. Great panel, great page, great stirring up s###.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 07:14 PM

Just catching up with the discussion thread, wow Karl. Great panel, great page, great stirring up s###.

I wish I could say "Aha, oh I do try," but it comes naturally, which I am equal parts proud and ashamed of.

That's why I like the Wild & Uncouth moniker. It's not because I think I'm bad-ass. It's the definition of my last name, and it's perfect for me because I have a TERRIBLE time being civil and have to check myself constantly.

I just sent out apology letters to dfbovey and Scott because of the way I handled things this morning.

larq2525

08-14-2009, 09:19 PM

Just posted my new rough in the AB forum. Hope everyone likes it. I figured it's about time that the Moon Tyrant (or at least part of him, in this case his body) should become a bit more threatening.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 09:37 PM

Well, that was certainly not what i was expecting, Rian. I was hoping that the body might be just a 'vessel' meaning a hollow container. Hence, the sun orb G'nik has could go on top of the body and then something would happen.
Technically it cold still work, but it's just weird that the body has a mind of its own. That means that the Staff, the Head, and the Body all have personalities.

Eh.

It can work. I just hate seeing King G'nik be IMMEDIATELY mistaken. But it is a challenge now to get the body to the king.

My gripe about the dialogue itself is the "Church of Lleuadism" comment at the end. It's corny. It seems out of place for me. Not only is the body capable of thought and action, it's got a kooky sense of pop-culture-infused humor?
Once again though, it's manageable up to a point. Maybe the body is repressed and is all about having malicious fun.

Now that I think about it though, if this is the case then basically the Moon Tyrant's three parts could be rationalized as being the three Bones.

Staff = Phoncible P. "Phoney" Bone (world domination)
Head = Fone Bone (polite and agreeable)
Body = Smiley Bone (comic relief)
That's... frigging weird, to be quite honest.

I have gripes. But they're nothing that can't be written around.

Plus, it's really f*cked up in a sadistic and goofy way that we keep peeling back layers of the Moon Tyrant and each time we do it it's like, "Yup. THings are worse. This guy is a force to be reckoned with and he is terrible." He's a monster, and he continues to be monstrous in horrifying ways.

So yeah. Rian, I had preconceived notions, but really your page is fine. If there's anything "wrong" about it, it would be the "hipster" dialogue of the body. But once again and again and again, we don't know exactly where the dialogue is coming from. Euh City is a Metropolis, and there may be pop culture such as this in the city, and the body may be able to read the soldier's brain and spout out some witty banter. It's all manageable, really.

I'm just pissed because I want it to be easy for all the characters, and you just made it hurrrhhhd.

Wow.

larq2525

08-14-2009, 10:05 PM

I knew the final line of my page was cheesy when I wrote it, but I couldn't help myself. When I thought of it it made me smile, and it was just the kind of catch phrase I needed to go with the big reveal of the Moon Tyrant's Body's new head. I think it fits in a very fun, yet foreboding way. Sure, it's based on a phrase in common use in the real world, but if you'd never known that before (i.e., if you were from the world of Anchorbird), it would just sound kind of creepy and menacing, considering who it's coming from, and it's not out of context or anything.

I took a lot of things into account when coming up with this page. First of all, the concept that was discussed here quite some time ago about the body being an underling. On one of Jesse's pages the Staff Head tells the Stone Head to be quiet, and ever since then I've thought it'd be cool to see what the body's personality would be like. I opted to make him a bit of a maniac as you noted, which I think will make for some fun stuff to come down the road. It's sort of like the Staff was always keeping him in line and now he's free to do things his own way...the messy way.

Also, there was another line of discussion here a while ago about whether or not the Moon Tyrant was menacing enough to be this all-powerful destroyer of worlds, and I figure that if he's going to live up to that reputation, he'd better start being a lot more intimidating rather quickly.

Another aspect of the threat level that I've sort of addressed here is that now there are potentially four places for trouble to originate for our main characters. Gruesmoon, the MTB (Moon Tyrant's Body) I just introduced, the stone which used to be the MTB's head (and which seems to have a devious agenda of it's own based on mine and Casey's last pages), and the horde of Lleuadists themselves. Now we not only have a big cast of good guys, but an equally imposing cast of bad guys. And this allows for there to be a lot more suspense because bad shit can be happening in many places at once. For example, right now there's a fight about to begin on the beach between Gortnoq's crew and the all new, all evil MTB, and simultaneously McFinney is trying to make his escape from the Lleuadists.

My original idea for this page was to have the MTB wander out of the jungle, stumble upon the mohawked Lleuadist/guard's body, and remove his head to use for it's own, but when I read your rough I was presented with a way to make that concept so much cooler and more dark. Though I did think it'd be fun to see the MTB walking around with that one damaged eye-stalk hanging out of the mohawked guy's head, I think my page is more effective the way that it's now written.

Technically the MTB could still be a vessel... [radio edit] ...in any case, I did make Gortnoq surprised that the body could move on it's own, which means that I'm not completely contradicting what you did in your page. I kept it in mind when I was writing mine that I had to adapt my concept to what you'd just written. I just really wanted to amp up the story a bit, and I'm dying to see Gortnoq fight his way out of his current situation with that machete of his.

That's my two cents.

Wild&Uncouth

08-14-2009, 10:31 PM

i'm with you, rian.

Do me a favor though, and remove all that stuff you just wrote about when you revised your post. About the sun orb "down the road" stuff.

I just don't want that influencing people's pages.

larq2525

08-14-2009, 10:43 PM

Do me a favor though, and remove all that stuff you just wrote about when you revised your post. About the sun orb "down the road" stuff.

I just don't want that influencing people's pages.

Done and done.

Aceschock

08-14-2009, 11:44 PM

Karl and Rian, Your pages are great...I think they both work very well. Awesome job Guy's

larq2525

08-15-2009, 12:36 AM

Thanks, Schock.

ScottEwen

08-15-2009, 08:52 PM

http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1053217

I wrote the script for my panel but it's late in the evening at this point and I'll have to draw the roughs tomorrow. But I posted it so Karl or whomever else can read it and catch any inconsistencies at this stage. Also this draft is waaaay too wordy but there's nothing I feel comfortable cutting. If anyone else has any suggestions I'm all ears.

Wild&Uncouth

08-15-2009, 11:13 PM

the only thing that's wordy is the exposition at the end as the High Priest dude gives the lo-down on the MT's physiology.

You could cut that shit down to four or five lines and it would all fit fine.

There are always tighter, shorter ways to say things. Twitter trains you for that shit. 140 characters or less!

SeanRM

08-15-2009, 11:32 PM

Great pages Rian and Karl!

Scott, it only seems wordy at the very end, and I can't really think of much you could do to snip it down without losing stuff.

The only thing I might suggest is snipping "The Moon Orb?" from the beginning of the High Curate's speech. It's a bit unnecessary, since the point of the reveal is that it isn't his head, and we can get that from AB's dialog before it and the next thing HC says.

Taro Mochi

08-16-2009, 01:43 AM

Turtle Boat

08-16-2009, 01:51 AM

what the, so mcfinney's kick to the guard's face fizzles out into nothing? that kinda kills the momentum of the action. I mean, if he's going to get beat up like that immediately, then what's the point of him trying to escape? At least show a little struggle and a whack to the back of his head or something like that.

Aceschock

08-16-2009, 03:29 AM

Wild&Uncouth

08-16-2009, 08:08 AM

Strip jam panel done...........sleeeeeeppppppppppppp!!!!!!!!
It's not the best panel in the world, but it's done. That's going to be my first and last never ending Strip jam panel.

Nice effort, Schock.
Your panel mostly makes sense.
The only things that don't jive are-

If Lauren's making everyone merge all their past/present/future forms, then Luigi shouldn't be glowing because there's only one of him.

On top of that, The General IS The Major from way in the future, so if Lauren just blended everyone together then she shouldn't be looking for him because he would be blended with the two Majors.

Not like you're particularly interested, of course. But I thought I would put that out there.

Nice modified Lauren design, though. It's like Sith Lauren took some fashion tips from Power Girl and Vega. And Tycho(?) running away horrified from my panel is pretty funny!

Wild&Uncouth

08-16-2009, 08:23 AM

what the, so mcfinney's kick to the guard's face fizzles out into nothing? that kinda kills the momentum of the action.

It didn't fizzle out into nothing. There was a fight between the panel borders and in the gutters, and it ended with them being completely restrained, McFinney a little worse for wear. I think it works better when left to the imagination if the fight ended with them still captured. It would be a redundant fight sequence.

Plus, if you're talking about the momentum of the story, I feel it's picking up. McFinney's kick lent itself to a momentum I was building with the subplot on my page, my cutaway lent some build up to your page's cliffhanger, and Rian's page built upon mine by starting up another subplot of intense suspense.

The suspense going on at the ruins is not being driven by a fight sequence. It's being driven by what these crazy Lleuadists plan on doing to AB and McF, and just when you think it can't get any worse, THEN something happens.

Plus, the failed escape attempt classifies as a humorous reveal now. Yeah, McFinney's bad-ass, but his action-star mentality got him a bloodied nose this time around, he endangered AB, and they're still in dire straits. That's pretty funny. Hell, McF's not perfect!

The momentum of the action is still in full swing. Don't let any preconceived notions tell you differently.

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 08:49 AM

Turtle Boat: yeah, what Karl just said. I don't think you need to see McFinney get a rifle butt to the nose because seeing him being all bruised and bloody, and Anchorbird saying "Got any more bright ideas?" lets you fill that stuff in yourself. Plus it makes me laugh.

The point is, there's no way McFinney kicking a Lleuadist in the face would have resulted in anything but McFinney getting the shit beat out of him by the other Lleuadists and being restrained. I feel like my first panel illustrates that well and also explains why McFinney did it to begin with.

SeanRM, the reason I put the High Curate saying "The Moon Orb?" in that expository panel was because I wanted it to be given that name and I'm not sure it's been called that before. If it has, I'll remove it, but seeing Karl call King G'nik's orb the Sun Orb gave me the idea that this thing should be its twin.

I'll try to cut down the dialogue in that panel, though, and last night I realized I could probably combine the first couple panels to cut down.

Rian, another thing that occured to me last night was that Gortnoq said "Dear Solar Lord" in your panel. Given that there are two suns on Colthoria, it makes sense that there would be two sun gods that the people worship. It might be a nice touch for him to say "Dear Solar Lords" instead. Up to you.

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 09:04 AM

Another pass at this dialogue. I think I've gotten it to a point that I can fit it all in now.

Panel 1: ANCHORBIRD and McFINNEY are tied to poles in the middle of the ruins. McF has a black eye and bloody mouth. The HIGH CURATE holds the Moon Orb up in the air while the Lleuadists cheer.
(1) AB: Any more bright ideas?
(2) McF: Sorry, laddy... I'm a wee bit rash sometimes. Me mam always said I act first and think later.
(3) HC: For centuries, we have awaited the return of our lord, our king, our GOD. And now...
(4) HC: He! Has! RETURNED!
(5) LLEUADISTS: Solas! Solas!

Panel 2: The HC turns back to AB.
(6) HC: And so, my friends, has the Samsara.
(7) L: Boo! Kill him! End his miserable life!
(8) AB: Hey, listen guys, I think you have me mistaken for someone else...

Panel 3: The HC pokes AB's tattoo while AB winces. His tattoo glows.
(9) HC: No, Samsara, I do not think we do.
(10) AB: Ow! Hey, watch it!
(11) McF: You already have the Moon Tyrant's head! What more do you want from us?

Panel 4: The HC tosses the Moon Orb onto the ground.
(12) HC: The Moon Orb? Ha... A mere conduit for the Vessel's thoughts. He serves the Moon Tyrant, his personality determined by the Copa he chooses to wear. He can't survive for long without one, but once severed, it cannot be reattached. It's worthless now.

Panel 5: Close up on the HC.
(13) HC: But enough talk. Now to begin.

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 09:06 AM

ok I might be a little late with my finished anchorbird page. Got a little sick. Couldn't see straight for a while. Still a little dizzy. :) Almost finished with the inks. I should be posting it between Sunday night and Monday morning. Maybe around 4am PST. Hope this is okay. Sorry for the delay.

That's fine, if you're too sick to finish though and need us to pitch in and take on some of the art duties, let us know. No penalties.

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 09:08 AM

Strip jam panel done...........sleeeeeeppppppppppppp!!!!!!!!
It's not the best panel in the world, but it's done. That's going to be my first and last never ending Strip jam panel.

Thanks Scott, but Strip Jam just isn't my thing.

Thanks Schock! I understand with so much backstory it can be confusing to try and figure out how to handle the story, but you did admirably, and although there's some stuff that doesn't make sense, you did a far better job than some of the people do who have been around since the beginning.

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 09:39 AM

Sorry for the crudity of this, but I'm at my girlfriend's house and I don't have my sketchbook nor a scanner. So I had to draw this with my Wacom, and I can't do that very well.

Anyway, here's the setting for my panel. There's a circular platform the High Curate is standing on. The poles surrounding it are torches, high enough off the ground that the other Lleuadists can't touch Anchobird and McFinney who are tied to them, but close enough to the platform that the High Curate can poke AB's tattoo with a stick.

The High Curate starts on the ground in the first panel and walks up the stairs. By the time he throws away the Moon Orb in panel four he's at the top.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/ScottEwen/ruins.jpg

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 10:43 AM

Turtle Boat

08-16-2009, 11:53 AM

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 11:56 AM

The reason why i say it fizzles out into nothing is, i'm planning to draw mcfinney kicking the guard to look really intense, and the last panel of my page will just give a shot of the guy cringing with all types of shit coming out of his mouth. As a reader, i'll be anticipating what's gonna happen next in this side of the action, meaning sequential fighting scenes. if the momentum of the action is just cut off like that, then idk, i'll wish there was more to the action then that.

and i really gotta disagree with mcfinney not being able to break out from the lleudists. dude, i just saw a movie with chuck norris who's leading a group of vietnamese orphans in a freaking pickup truck fighting against a helicopter and twenty random vietnamese soldiers with heavy artillery. The point is, in an action genre, you have to throw believablility out the window.

I haven't been treating this story like it's action genre up to this point, I've been doing a science fiction story. It's very unbelievable to me that McFinney would be able to fight off all the Lleuadists with no weapons and the number of people on their side. Plus, I have zero interest in having them break out of the Lleuadists' grip right now. I want them to be captured because that's way more interesting to me than them being on the run.

Sorry, but I'm not drawing a fight scene. I think my version works much better.

Turtle Boat

08-16-2009, 11:58 AM

eh. i'm not rly at authority to tell you to change your page anyway. :/ guess we gotta agree to disagree.

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 12:08 PM

About a print version. Since my half-page will be #42, that's 21 finished pages that we'll have. That's getting close to enough pages to make an actual comic into. So I started looking around at different print-on-demand publishers to see what prices would be.

For a 32-page full-color comic at Lulu, each copy would cost about $10. They specialize more in printing books, so that's understandable, but it's way too much.

At Ka-Blam, it would be $3 for a 32-page comic, but if we waited until we had 56 pages, it would be only $4. That seems a better deal to me, but we'd have to wait until we had about a hundred finished half-pages.

There's a magazine print-on-demand site called MagCloud, but they have no info on pricing on their website. I emailed them and I'm waiting for a price.

Wild&Uncouth

08-16-2009, 01:34 PM

and i really gotta disagree with mcfinney not being able to break out from the lleudists. dude, i just saw a movie with chuck norris who's leading a group of vietnamese orphans in a freaking pickup truck fighting against a helicopter and twenty random vietnamese soldiers with heavy artillery. The point is, in an action genre, you have to throw believablility out the window.

TurtleBoat-

Anchorbird isn't a movie and McFinney isn't Chuck Norris. They don't exist in a world where all believability is thrown out the window in order for it to be enjoyed. That's the "it's good because it's so bad" action genre. Commando is in that genre, as an example.

Not to classify Anchrobird, but if anything it is an Action-Adventure Strip.
I don't know if you've been reading or have even heard of the current DC project called Wednesday Comics (which in turn is heralding the old days of comic strips such as Tarzan, Prince Valiant, Flash Gordon, etc), but that's what Anchorbird is shaping up to be.

I strip that is all choreographed fight sequences does nothing but detract from the storyline, which is the hook of the whole thing. The story.

We're not trying to best each other with the fight sequences we're drawing. We're trying to depict high-risk situations and end each 1/2 page with good cliffhangers, giving the next person a series of options for interesting story progression and awesome plot twists.

If Scott felt that it was time for AB and McF to kick ass and run away for another series of pages then he would have don it.

However, they were just on the run for 9 pages in a row, no breaks except to see Gruesmark merge with the MT, before they finally ran into the Lleuadists. Is it more interesting for the storlyine to make all the Lleuadists losers who can't take out one special ops guy and a waste-of-space chosen one? Or does it lend itself more for them to stay put and be at the Lleuadists mercy, and the reader gets to bite their nails hoping the guys are ok, and learn about the Lleuadists?

You are concerned that there is not an awesome amount of action, considering your page depicts it. Your 2 panel fight sequence better be pretty brutal looking if you're lusting after the action that much. Because it's a good cliffhanger that lends false hope because of what we've done, and now you have to commit an play to that angle. It's a good angle. Cliffhangers like this happen all the time.

McFinney is brutally kicking a guy, then you have the panel with the closeup of the unlucky Lleuadist, wracked with pain after a boot to the face. We as readers will go, "OH! DAMN! McFinney's bad-ass!"

2 pages later we see that McFinney isn't a superman. Which he shouldn't be. There's nothing wrong with that.

It's an action-adventure strip, man. Don't be so plot-hurt over a good plot twist.

Wild&Uncouth

08-16-2009, 01:47 PM

About a print version. Since my half-page will be #42, that's 21 finished pages that we'll have. That's getting close to enough pages to make an actual comic into. So I started looking around at different print-on-demand publishers to see what prices would be.

That's really cool that you pulled up this info. I've been waiting for the 64 page mark, making a 32 page comic.

To be honest I don't know if I can continue past this point anyway. Not that I want the story to wrap up, and I'd still like to write 1/2 pages, but I just can't commit to be drawing these pages for that much longer. So if I was going to step out and let someone step in and take my spot, it would be after page 64, and I could buy a comic of what we all just did.

In fact, I always viewed a full comic as being a good goal for us. We're doing a make-it-up-as-you-go storyline, and it's actually been compelling. A 32 page comic is a nice product to have after all our labors.

I don't know the fate of Anchorbird, and I'm not saying I will definitely bow out after page 64.

What I am saying is my vote is for a 32 page comic.

larq2525

08-16-2009, 01:47 PM

Rian, another thing that occured to me last night was that Gortnoq said "Dear Solar Lord" in your panel. Given that there are two suns on Colthoria, it makes sense that there would be two sun gods that the people worship. It might be a nice touch for him to say "Dear Solar Lords" instead. Up to you.

Makes sense to me.

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 01:52 PM

Cool. Right now I'm really concerned about my half-page because I don't want to draw the roughs up until we can figure out what to do about the fact that the High Curate contradicts himself on Joel's page. I can't come up with any ideas to fix this except to scrap what I have and start over.

Wild&Uncouth

08-16-2009, 01:55 PM

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 01:58 PM

ALSO, Scott,

I don't know what you should do with the Moon Orb.

When you wrote that it wasn't worth anything, I was willing to roll with it, despite the fact that the Moon Orb opened it's little eye and zapped Anchorbird, and Gruesmark ordered Anchorbird to get the Moon Orb to King G'Nik. So maybe robbing the orb of all it's importance is too conflicting a development?

It doesn't have to be a third personality. It can just be a conduit of sorts. But it seems it is an object of importance.

You may just have revise your script to include it.

Well, what I was thinking is that the Moon Orb has special properties that the Lleuadists don't know about. So it ISN'T worthless, they just don't know it's not just ANY Copa. They throw it away which sets up Anchorbird to retrieve it later.

See, my explanation for how the Moon Tyrant works was that the Vessel is the body, and it the MT's servant. The staff with the mask on it is the Moon Tyrant, and requires the Vessel to carry it around. But apparently it can attach itself to a body (Gruesmark), so why it would need a body to carry it around is anyone's guess. And since the Vessel can attach another head (Copa) to itself, seemingly giving it a different personality, it makes sense to me that the Body is not the Moon Tyrant, just the Moon Tyrant's right-hand man.

However, the Lleuadists referring to the Moon Orb as the Moon Tyrant's head throws a wrench into all that.

larq2525

08-16-2009, 02:01 PM

Ah Jesus, I just re-read some of the previous pages and I saw this in Joel's page:

1. Church leader- my brothers, the head of our lord has been delivered to us. When our king arrives to reclaim it, we shall be rewarded beyond our wildest dreams!

The High Curate's dialogue in my page directly contradicts what he said earlier. I was at Panera when I wrote this so I couldn't check the previous panels to make sure it didn't contradict. How can I fix this? I was all proud of myself for coming up with a way that Rian's page would make sense, but now mine doesn't make sense.

I know this is coming a bit late considering that Joel's page was approved a while ago now, but his dialogue actually seems to make less sense than yours. I mean, the Moon Tyrant is the head that was on the staff, right? So when the "church leader" on his page says it's the Moon Tyrant's head, that's not really true, right? It's the head of the slave body. My recommendation would be to have Joel change the dialogue on his page to read "Moon Orb" instead of "the head of our lord".

You'd have to change your page a bit as well in that instance though, Scott, because you have the High Curate stating that the Moon Orb is useless now when Joel has him say that the Moon Tyrant will come looking for it, which makes it sound important. Also, when Gruesmark first knocks the Orb off of the slave body he tells AB to take it to King G'Nik, which once again makes it seem important and not disposable.

So basically, I say we should change the term used for the orb on Joel's page and alter your page slightly to make the church leader still think that the orb is important.

My two cents.

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 02:04 PM

I know this is coming a bit late considering that Joel's page was approved a while ago now, but his dialogue actually seems to make less sense than yours. I mean, the Moon Tyrant is the head that was on the staff, right? So when the "church leader" on his page says it's the Moon Tyrant's head, that's not really true, right? It's the head of the slave body. My recommendation would be to have Joel change the dialogue on his page to read "Moon Orb" instead of "the head of our lord".

You'd have to change your page a bit as well in that instance though, Scott, because you have the High Curate stating that the Moon Orb is useless now when Joel has him say that the Moon Tyrant will come looking for it, which makes it sound important. Also, when Gruesmark first knocks the Orb off of the slave body he tells AB to take it to King G'Nik, which once again makes it seem important and not disposable.

So basically, I say we should change the term used for the orb on Joel's page and alter your page slightly to make the church leader still think that the orb is important.

My two cents.

You make sense, Rian. That's probably the best course of action, I just hate to make Joel change something that was already approved. But it's a dialogue tweak so it should be very easy to fix. I'll think about it a bit today and try to figure out how to reword the dialogue on my page to still explain the Copa stuff but not make the Moon Orb unimportant.

Wild&Uncouth

08-16-2009, 02:04 PM

Panel 3: The HC pokes AB's tattoo while AB winces. His tattoo glows.
(9) HC: No, Samsara, I do not think we do.
(10) AB: Ow! Hey, watch it!
(11) McF: You already have the Moon Tyrant's head! What more do you want from us?

Panel 4: The HC tosses the Moon Orb onto the ground.
(12) HC: The Moon Orb? Ha... A mere conduit for the Vessel's thoughts. He serves the Moon Tyrant, his personality determined by the Copa he chooses to wear. He can't survive for long without one, but once severed, it cannot be reattached. It's worthless now.

Panel 5: Close up on the HC.
(13) HC: But enough talk. Now to begin.

Actually, after looking at your script, the conflicting Moon Orb statement isn't until your last two panels.
AB asks what the Lleuadists want now that they have the MT's head.

The HC never answers AB's question, and instead talks about how the orb is nothing.

You can have the HC actually say what they plan on doing to AB. He can talk about the importance of having the Moon Orb AND AB. Or h can talk about the importance of the orb only.

Just a thought- The Moon Orb (or any of the obs) can be the CONTROLLER/SHOCK COLLAR for the Vessel. Maybe the MTStaff needs the orb as a direct link for it to communicate and control the Vessel. Without the presence of this orb on the Vessel's shoulders it just likes to run wild and is completely savage and uncontrollable. The Vessel putting the guard's head on was just one of the many heinous acts it likes to commit, and the only way for the Vessel to verbally communicate is by having a 'head.'

I'm just spit-balling here.

larq2525

08-16-2009, 02:08 PM

And since the Vessel can attach another head (Copa) to itself, seemingly giving it a different personality, it makes sense to me that the Body is not the Moon Tyrant, just the Moon Tyrant's right-hand man.

This doesn't have to be the case, but this was my take on the whole slave body/swapping heads thing when I came up with it:

Putting the guard's severed head atop it's shoulders doesn't change the slave body's personality. It was always a bit of a murderous lunatic, but when the staff head was around it made the body it's bitch and influenced it's actions. The body is still working toward the same basic goal as the staff head, but now that it's on it's own it can cut loose do things it's way (which includes speaking out of turn and being real creepy).

If it worked out your way and the new head is what made the slave body devious, wouldn't that mean that the guard in service of the king was secretly a serial killer, hence bringing his personality with him to the body? That could be the case, but it seems unlikely to me. Kinda sounds like Dexter, but swap out the Miami Police Department for King G'Nik's guards/soldiers.

larq2525

08-16-2009, 02:10 PM

Just a thought- The Moon Orb (or any of the obs) can be the CONTROLLER/SHOCK COLLAR for the Vessel. Maybe the MTStaff needs the orb as a direct link for it to communicate and control the Vessel. Without the presence of this orb on the Vessel's shoulders it just likes to run wild and is completely savage and uncontrollable. The Vessel putting the guard's head on was just one of the many heinous acts it likes to commit, and the only way for the Vessel to verbally communicate is by having a 'head.'

I'm just spit-balling here.

That's more of what I had in mind. Again, not the way it has to be, but you just pretty much reinforced my opinion with that idea, Karl.

Wild&Uncouth

08-16-2009, 02:10 PM

Also, about Joel's dialogue (because I am also hesitant to make people change up their already approved pages because technically WE'RE the ones who should be adaptable, not the people already working on their finished art)-

I understood it that the Lleuadists don't know 100% how the Moon Tyrant works. There's a certain amount of misinformation that the Lleuadists operate under, and them knowing the in's and out's of the physiology of the Moon Tyrant is a bit of a stretch.

That being said- if this is still the modus operandi of the Lleuadists, then that sets up a possibly horrible misunderstanding if say, the Vessel shows up to the ruins, the Lleuadists all begin to worship him and say "here's your head, oh lord" and then the Vessel starts tearing the Lleuadists apart one by one, because he's a flipping monster who wants nothing to do with the Moon Orb.

Wild&Uncouth

08-16-2009, 02:13 PM

Also, Gruesmark already bested the Vessel once, and now the Staff is in control of Gruesmark, so if the Vessel resists the Staff, that's a bad-ass MT vs. MT fight building up.

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 02:13 PM

I understood it that the Lleuadists don't know 100% how the Moon Tyrant works. There's a certain amount of misinformation that the Lleuadists operate under, and them knowing the in's and out's of the physiology of the Moon Tyrant is a bit of a stretch.

Yeah, I know. I just didn't want to have the High Curate start explaining the way the Moon Tyrant operates, knowing that it's not true, because other people in the jam might take it as gospel. I wanted to just come up with a way that makes sense and have it explained here, so that in the future it can remain consistent. If I were a reader, I would have no idea what's going on with the Moon Tyrant, since every part of it removed from the whole seems to become a brand NEW Moon Tyrant.

larq2525

08-16-2009, 02:15 PM

If we do decide to go the route of the Lleuadists not knowing exactly how the MT works, we should make sure we sprinkle in some hints of that so that it's not just confusing to the readers. I've got no problem with that course, though.

ScottEwen

08-16-2009, 02:42 PM

That's really cool that you pulled up this info. I've been waiting for the 64 page mark, making a 32 page comic.

To be honest I don't know if I can continue past this point anyway. Not that I want the story to wrap up, and I'd still like to write 1/2 pages, but I just can't commit to be drawing these pages for that much longer. So if I was going to step out and let someone step in and take my spot, it would be after page 64, and I could buy a comic of what we all just did.

In fact, I always viewed a full comic as being a good goal for us. We're doing a make-it-up-as-you-go storyline, and it's actually been compelling. A 32 page comic is a nice product to have after all our labors.

I don't know the fate of Anchorbird, and I'm not saying I will definitely bow out after page 64.

What I am saying is my vote is for a 32 page comic.

64 pages seems like a good place to put together a print version. We would need to do a cover, though. Do you think one person should be responsible for the cover, or should we do it like one of the Fusion Jams and have one person pencil, one person ink, and one person color so it's more of a collaboration?

Sorry to hear you might not participate after 64 pages, but I understand it's time-consuming. That's why I've dropped down my participation as well. I would not want the story of Anchorbird to end after 64 pages, because honestly I think there's a LOT of untapped potential in this comic for neat stories, but we could wrap up the Moon Tyrant story around that time.