Jeph Loeb Hulk

[AlexT17]

I thought this story was pretty freaking amazing when I was reading it one at a time. Then I was researching and read a review stating that the book is all action and no storytelling. In order to disprove this theory, I read the first arc straight. And I have to say that the reviewer was true. The story has abosolutely no story at all, Jeph focuses more on continuous action over the mystery and suspense that is the Red Hulk's identity. Thor was an unnecessary character to introduce and the end of #4 and as the star player of #5. Jeph Loeb clearly cannot write Tony Stark/Iron Man for sh*t. Or anyone else in this series for that matter.

I think that Brian Michael Bendis could write a better story (and that's coming from someone who very much dislikes his work).

[SHAMWOW!]

i think u almost lost me...when u were equatiing loeb as freaking amazing... this the same guy who teleported supergirl in mere nano seconds before darkseid omega beams hits her so that darksied thinks he disintegrated her... the guy who had lex luthor stab batman and say i know who killed the waynes or something like that... or who wasted a batman/superman vs ultimates like characters only to turn out to be make believe characters created by joker thru batmite ..and now loeb destroying what was once the greates incarnation of the avengers themselves the ultimates..

[Popninja]

To his credit, Loeb has done some really good work. He and Tim Sale gel very well and he seems to do some really great work with Sale. Also his Hush run with Jim Lee was very well written...imo.

I don't know what's going on with him now, what he's going through, or what, but something is definitely not right with Loeb's writing at the moment.

[NickRocks]

Yeah, I mean the guy lost his friggin son only a couple years ago, he doesnt seem to be the same guy since, and all this bashing he gets is, IMO, really rude and insensitive of alot of fanboys. His son liked to write humorous stories, I think that Loeb is just honoring his son that way, in writing tongue-in-cheek stuff that his kid would like to read. (note i said i think:idk whats in the guys head lol)

Jeph is a great writer with a good track record. He will bounce back.

[lost-spartan]

I think his new color book collab with Sale will really be the test of if he's just been in a funk of doing forced big company stories that just don't fit his tone of writing or if he's really lost a step.

[AlexT17]

He is a great writer but I don't really like his recent work. Ultimates 3, Hulk and every other title Marvel is throwing at him. Strange how he was doing good when he was back at DC but sucks at Marvel. That does bring some questions to mind.

[NickRocks]

I still have yet to read Ultimates 3, but the way everyone keeps hating on it gives me a nasty little feeling that im going to really dig it.

[Dri]

I just bought the pencils only Ultimates 3 and thought it was decent when earlier on (like issue 2) I wrote it off. How does one follow up Ultimates 1 and 2?

Joe Mad while having a likeable style told a average story which didn't help Jeph's writing. (Blame it on his hiatus). Having read it though there were reasons for lackluster dialog (won't spoil it for those who haven't read it) but in the end I didn't mind it those flaws. I just had to drop expectations that it was the Ultimates that Millar and Hitch presented. Besides if McGuiness is on board I expect more of the same tone. More cheesy and super heroic.

[AlexT17]

Besides if McGuiness is on board I expect more of the same tone. More cheesy and super heroic.


Actually, just recently, they announced that Frank Cho, who has a style similar to McGuiness', will be doing what will be title 'NEW ULTIMATES". Mark will come back and do several six issue miniserieses, one named ULTIMATES BLACK, which focuses on the black ops aspect of the Ultimates which included Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Mangeto's kids.

[Popninja]

I just bought the pencils only Ultimates 3 and thought it was decent when earlier on (like issue 2) I wrote it off. How does one follow up Ultimates 1 and 2?

Does it have the writing in it or is it just the pencils, like the Rough Cut stuff Marvel was doing a few years ago? If it's just the pencils, that would be worth buying.

[Dri]

Does it have the writing in it or is it just the pencils, like the Rough Cut stuff Marvel was doing a few years ago? If it's just the pencils, that would be worth buying.

It's $24.99US with all dialog and finished pencils which I preferred over the coloured one. Well worth it if you are a fan of Joe Mad. I wish they sold more penciled stuff like that from other artists.

Upon looking at it I wish it was inked and coloured. Tim Townsend would rock on those pencils.

[50%grey]

Cool didn't even know they put this out. We were all hoping for a collected penciled version.

Just bought a copy on Ebay. It is Hardcover as well so that is groovy.

[50%grey]

Actually, just recently, they announced that Frank Cho, who has a style similar to McGuiness',

That is the first time I have ever heard that comparison hehe.

[50%grey]

I Just noticed that Hulk 7,8,and 9 are also out.
Grabbed them up on ebay for about 7 bucks all with Arthur Adams covers. SWEET!

Honestly I don't even care if the story sucks at this point. Just having Adams draw covers and interiors is good enough for me!

[Popninja]

Yeah, Hulk #9 was officially my last Marvel comic...

...unless they get Adams to do something else. Other than that, I'm done with Marvel.

[NickRocks]

It's $24.99US with all dialog and finished pencils

they did the first issue of ASBAR that way. it was really cool.

[AlexT17]

That is the first time I have ever heard that comparison hehe.

Actually, Frank Cho and Arthur Adams have styles distinctive to McGuiness. That's probably why they were hired to do covers and interior for King Sized Hulk and Hulk 7-9

[50%grey]

Frank Cho draws nothing like Ed. There in totaly diffrent styles completely.
That would be like saying Adam Hughes draws in the same style as Arthur Adams. MADNESS!

[Popninja]

Actually, Frank Cho and Arthur Adams have styles distinctive to McGuiness. That's probably why they were hired to do covers and interior for King Sized Hulk and Hulk 7-9

Um...no. I could post an Adams Hulk next to a McGuinness Hulk and they wouldn't be remotely similar except that they are both drawing of the Hulk.

Same with Cho. That's like saying Joe Linsner's style is similar to Erik Larsen's style.

[Dri]

Frank Cho draws nothing like Ed. There in totaly diffrent styles completely.
That would be like saying Adam Hughes draws in the same style as Arthur Adams. MADNESS!

Tend to agree with 50 here but ppl see things different. As much as I like what Frank Cho (cheesecake) and Ed have to offer, their tone just doesn't suit the book. I wish Frank Quietley could figure into the Ultimates but I guess he's exclusive to DC.

[NickRocks]

Um...no. I could post an Adams Hulk next to a McGuinness Hulk and they wouldn't be remotely similar except that they are both drawing of the Hulk.

Same with Cho. That's like saying Joe Linsner's style is similar to Erik Larsen's style.

mcg hulk
http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/0807/WWHX_3.jpg

Adams hulk
http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com/HULK08_ADAMS.jpg

Cho Hulk (or the best one google could find)
http://www.incredible-hulk-library.com/superhero-library/Img/Gallery/she-hulk-vs-red-hulk-wallpaper-2-l.jpg

[Dri]

Cho's Hulk is not as good as Ed's or Art's. Just sayin'.

[50%grey]

Everyone in the Marvel U is always trying to beat up the Hulk.Those BASTARDS!

Leave him alone you creeps..

[50%grey]

So I finally got my copies of 7-9. It is not a continuation of the storyline Ed worked on,it's a sequel to Giant sized Hulk,

The Arthur Adams section deals with the Wendigo,and the Cho section deals with She Hulk getting revenge on the rulk for beating her up.

Arthur Adams section was cool art wise,but the story was dumb. The Cho section is beyond bad,and probly the worst stuff he has done for Marvel. Looks like he just phoned it in.

[lost-spartan]

The Cho section is beyond bad,and probly the worst stuff he has done for Marvel. Looks like he just phoned it in.


He probably had to just to keep on schedule, even doing just half a monthly book. :(

[50%grey]

Just received the Black and White version of Ultimates 3. Very very nice product,hardback and has all the covers and alternative covers in black and white as well.

Mads pencils are beautiful on this,shame they didn't opt for an inker.

Anyway must buy for any MAd fan. I love the style he used for it.His faces are much more realistic then battle chasers.

[lost-spartan]

How clear do the pencils read in the b+w 50%? Did they have to darken them any for everything to show?

[50%grey]

They look very clear.You can see all the pencil strokes inside the blacks as well.

I'm sure they darkened them a very slight amount the same way we tweak our scans when posting pencils tho.
You don't lose any detail as far as the backgrounds are concerned.

I would like to see some more volumes like this.

[lost-spartan]

Cool cool. I'm gonna have to grab myself a copy for sure now.

[50%grey]

Back on topic it looks like Ed and Jeph will continue the original storyline as of Hulk #10.
I thought they moved Ed to some other project,but I guess not. I really like him on the hulk tho,so hope he continues with it.

[50%grey]

Heh, Just read the hulk annual,and WOW Jeph WTF. who exactly are you writing this stuff for.

Are there no editors out there that can tell him he is turning in complete doo doo.

[Huerta]

I noticed Loeb started writing lighter/fun stuff after his son died. Lots of people hate it but if you look at it like a kids cartoon, it works.

[50%grey]

I noticed Loeb started writing lighter/fun stuff after his son died. Lots of people hate it but if you look at it like a kids cartoon, it works.

The annual is pretty adult tho. Lets put it this way The Hulk gets busy with one of the girls from the ultimates in a local motel,hehe.

[Popninja]

Well, isn't that what Marvel is today? Adult fare? Look at the latest Wolverine issue. They don't make these with broad appeal anymore.

[spidey976]

Loeb has taken it on the chops the last few years ... with the deaths of Sam Loeb (his son) ... and Micheal Turner (a close family friend who had become like a big brother to his daughter). I think he could use some time off. The Red Hulk story line has potential .... it just isn't living up to it yet.

[50%grey]

If he wants to do more lighthearted stuff Marvel is sticking him on the wrong projects.

[Huerta]

I disagree. Whatever book he works on has an old-school cheesy feel to it. It's cool and pretty refreshing from all the dark stuff.

[50%grey]

I disagree. Whatever book he works on has an old-school cheesy feel to it. It's cool and pretty refreshing from all the dark stuff.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you are fighting this battle alone because I don't know of anyone that thought Ultimates 3 was good..

He can do old school cheesy and still pull out and incredible story . Batman/Superman is shining example of what he can do in that genre.

The fact is if you put anything he is doing today next to the stuff he was doing for DC,and there is a huge dip in quality.
This man is responsible for some epic storylines in comics.

Ultimates 3 bombed,and Ultimates 4 was canned. Red Hulk seems to be doing better ,but the last 3 issues have been so bad that alot of people are starting to quit the book.. His old fans are turning on him,and he is becoming a joke on any messageboard.

Like Spidey said Jeph needs a break because he is a shadow of his former self.



At least that’s how I felt after reading this issue. Let me explain...

Jeph Loeb has penned many great comic books, but sadly The Ultimates 3 doesn’t even come close. Everything that Millar and Hitch did with this team seems to have been forgotten. I understand changes to the mood of a book are expected when a new creative team signs onto an already established title. What we have with this series is a total atmospheric overhaul. Everything that Millar and Hitch put into the ambience of this series was thrown out the window. The grittiness and realism that made this book shine aren't there anymore. There is no sense of suspense, no bigger picture. This book has been reduced to a flashy soap opera. So far though, the only thing that has been present in every issue are splash pages and sex. We get it: super heros like to get their swerve on too. However, it seems like we’re just being beaten over the head with it. First the sex tape, then Quicksilver and Wanda’s insinuated relationship is made completely obvious, and on top of that apparently Wolverine and Magda hooked up back in the day. That’s ‘cool’ and all, but can we get on with the story?

Why all the violence and sex anyway? I mean sure Madureira gets to draw more boobs, but at the cost of what? The quality of the story? Someone needs to tell Marvel that it wasn’t the sex, violence, or censored cusses that made the Ultimates a good read. It was the characters. Millar did take 616 classic characters and wrote them into a more mature world, but the relationships and battles that took place in his run weren’t just written for the hell of it, it all added to the characters. We saw this team of virtually indestructible super people face, cope with, and learn from things ranging from spousal abuse to an alien invasion. In this mini-series though, it seems like everybody on the team has turned into short tempered children.

So far the only thing about this book that has improved is the art, and even so it’s because the colors aren’t as dark anymore. The pages seem a bit more polished since a noticeable amount of brightness was added. Other than that, there really hasn’t been an improvement since the first issue. The writing is still awkward and spastic, and the art is too hectic to fit these characters. The Ultimates have been reduced to a less interesting version of Dragon Ball (for the young ones out there, you know this show as Bleach). Lots of yelling, fighting, and filler.

I’m pretty sure that I won’t be picking up The Ultimates 4, but I will be picking up the rest of this series (“**** you too wallet!”) just because it’s easier to get rid of a complete set on eBay. Maybe I’ll gift it off to someone I hate, but as far as I’m concerned The Ultimates ended with Volume 2.

[NickRocks]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you are fighting this battle alone because I don't know of anyone that thought Ultimates 3 was good..

i have yet to read it but im sure ill like it.


Like Spidey said Jeph needs a break because he is a shadow of his former self.

people say that about frank miller and its not true.

[50%grey]

I don't think people say that about Frank. All star bats is a best seller.

[NickRocks]

I don't think people say that about Frank. All star bats is a best seller.

speaking of, I heard that bo schreck got laid off from DC? is this true? if so, whats going to happen to ASBAR?

[50%grey]

ASBAR has nothing to worry about, it comes out like once every two years. :p

[lost-spartan]

ASBAR has nothing to worry about, it comes out like once every two years. :p

Maybe Lee could takeover as editor of the book. He'd only get one book out every 3 years, but he doesn't mind doing lots of things other than being a penciller. ;)

[Huerta]

ASBAR is worse than Ultimates 3.

And fans can say what they want. they complain about everything and anything when something doesnt go their way.

[NickRocks]

I love asbar, so im sure ill love ultimates 3.

[spidey976]

i have yet to read it but im sure ill like it.



people say that about frank miller and its not true.

Heck I don't think Miller needs a break ... I just think that we don't know where ASBAR is going ... and the delays are killing it ... which Lee has admitted are his fault ... though I don't think Lee and Miller mesh. However, and this is only my oppinion based on limited evidence, I don't think Miller has done his best in terms of his art in years. Now Nick and I disagree ... but I think DK2 looks like an exercise in Photoshop gradient tools and weak struture and line work ... where TDKR is just a classic.

I think Loeb just needs a break ... he should take some time and mourn ... in the end come back strong. I know the guy will never be the same personally ... and that is suppose to happen when you lose someone ... but eventually I think he will move on professionally.

[AlexT17]

[QUOTE=50%grey;986003]y.
This man is responsible for some epic storylines in comics.

Ultimates 3 bombed,and Ultimates 4 was canned. QUOTE]

Jeph is actually writing something called "New Ultimates" with Frank Cho.

[Popninja]

ASBAR is worse than Ultimates 3.

Only in scheduling. Hats off to Joe Mad for doing what I thought would be impossible. Every other aspect, story and art, ASBAR is way better than Ultimates 3.

[Huerta]

I dont know. I stopped when he kept saying goddamn and it was just off too me.

Now, All Star SuperMan is the shiz.

[NickRocks]

assm was alright, quietly outshone morrison, imo. on asbar its the other way around.

[hellblazer72]

i thought ultimates 3 was pretty good..it was vastly different than 1 and 2 but i think that was the point..it probably would have been better if they would have went with 12 issues like it was orginally planned...the endings to the 2 mysteries seemed forced in 5 issues and the 3rd was only hinted at and never developed...i'll have to try and track down a copy of the pencils only book

[Huerta]

assm was alright, quietly outshone morrison, imo. on asbar its the other way around.

Yeah. I just dont like Jim Lee anymore. He's not shitty at all, his style just doesnt do it for anymore and hasnt for awhile.

[NickRocks]

I just read Ultimates 3....holy crap.






















it was AMAZING!!!!!

so what it wasnt like the first two ultimates at all? Joe Mad's art was ****ing DELICIOUS to look at, i felt like i was ruining his artwork with how hot and sweaty it was making my hands! dude came back and BROUGHT IT HARD!!!!!!!

the story also was not bad, it was Jeph Loeb having superhero fun. people say he wasnt himself, this was pure classic Loeb! Cap masquerading as Black Panther, Venom being a robot...everything that made people go "WTF IS THAT DOING IN THERE?" in the previews was explained.

This WAS an ultimates story, and a damn good one to me, too. The ending made me go "oh snap!" out loud. Id love to see this continued, but i heard the bitching of the conservative fanboys made them cancel it. :( i just hope joe mad gets on another title soon, and brings that colorist with him!

[Popninja]

I just read Ultimates 3....holy crap.

it was AMAZING!!!!!

so what it wasnt like the first two ultimates at all? Joe Mad's art was ****ing DELICIOUS to look at, i felt like i was ruining his artwork with how hot and sweaty it was making my hands! dude came back and BROUGHT IT HARD!!!!!!!

the story also was not bad, it was Jeph Loeb having superhero fun. people say he wasnt himself, this was pure classic Loeb! Cap masquerading as Black Panther, Venom being a robot...everything that made people go "WTF IS THAT DOING IN THERE?" in the previews was explained.

This WAS an ultimates story, and a damn good one to me, too. The ending made me go "oh snap!" out loud. Id love to see this continued, but i heard the bitching of the conservative fanboys made them cancel it. :( i just hope joe mad gets on another title soon, and brings that colorist with him!

To the bold parts of this quote:

Yes, it was.

Yes, he did.

No, it was not.

No, it was not.

I hope so too, but this time with an inker.

[Huerta]

I can tell MAD! stop trying towards the end in Ultimates.

BAttle Chaser issue with the Black gooey monster is his best sequential work.

[lost-spartan]

I wish he'd get back to BC, but 8 years later it's just a lost cause at this point. Has MAD ever said that the 3 year exclusive was the begining of him returning the comics full-time or was it a one time deal for Ulitmates that Joe Q managed to get from him??

[Chris Major]

I don't think Joe Mad has anything left to prove to anyone. He can take his time and work on whatever he likes now.

I still hate him for creating something as ridiculously objectifying as Red Monika. But that's beside the point. His art rocks, period.

[NickRocks]

Ok so on topic of this thread...

Yesterday I went into my local Barnes and Nobles (I go there ALOT) and I saw the TPB of Loebs Huolk 1-6. so since id only read one issue out of that run, i decided to sit down and read it.

While I didnt like it as much as I liked Ultimates 3, I still enjoyed it.

Jeph Loeb to me, hasnt lost his mind. He's not a bad writer. Right now, though, he's just writing comics to the extreme.

Allow me to explain. First there was Ultimates 3, where he pretty much took the characters that millar wrote and pushed them all to extremes. Hawkeye was revengeful, Cap was a solider stuck in the past, Iron Man was a drunk, Thor was....well he was thor.

Then with Hulk, he seems to simply be writing a funny comic. whether you find it funny or not isnt really the point, Jeoh is writing what HE FINDS FUNNY. Hulk smashes Iron Man with a freaking jet plane, and later in the issue Iron Man comically states "oh. the. HUMANITY" as the Holicarrier Gold *thought that little banter was particularly amusing too* smashes into the ground.

The Hulk talking stupid again is, again IMO, Jeph writing what he finds funny. He doesnt really worry about hulk acting like WWH *and obviously marvel editors dont mind either, so i dont* so he writes Hulk the way he wants to. Everyone in this comic acts in a goofy way. Thor shows up and gets beaten *one part i dont agree with...Rulk would NOT be able to wield Mjolnir in outer space* and as hulk bounces away, he says something like "thou hast incurred my wrath!" as he looks right at the reader. Funny.

McG's art is solid as ever, although id like to see a different inker aside from Vines on him, just to see what it would look like.

Anyway, thats my take on it so far. Id give it a solid 7 out of 10.

[50%grey]

McG's art is solid as ever, although id like to see a different inker aside from Vines on him, just to see what it would look like.

Mark farmer inks a couple of those issues,AND they are about to release there 2nd run which is Defenders vs the offenders

Thought the first 6 weren't to bad,MUCH better then ultimates 3 which is just garbage,

7-9 are crap tho,and the Hulk Annual is the cherry on the crap pie.

[Popninja]

Mark farmer inks a couple of those issues,AND they are about to release there 2nd run which is Defenders vs the offenders

Thought the first 6 weren't to bad,MUCH better then ultimates 3 which is just garbage,

7-9 are crap tho,and the Hulk Annual is the cherry on the crap pie.

Let's not forget to point out that, sans scripts, all of these comics are glorious art books.

[50%grey]

Some of the art was awesome. All the Joe Mad,Ed McG,and Arthur Adams stuff.

Other stuff wasn't so hot..like the phoned in Mike Cho sections,and Marko's awful sequentials.

I don't get Marko. Amazing digital painter,but as soon as he has to be confined to pen and ink his stuff falls apart.

[gadgetwk]

the red hulk stuff is...okay. i dont think its near as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but its definitely not loeb's best. dude can write a great mystery (see: dark victory, hush, etc) but he's lacking with this one cause he keeps focusing on goofy action. the idea of a red hulk is kinda lame in my opinion, but what's even lamer is a-bomb.

his ultimates was absolutely horrible. i couldn't even take the artwork, and this is coming from a guy who got into comics because of mad's artwork. it was way too flashy, the painted, no ink look was too much. the whole thing, artwork and all, was more marvel u proper than ultimate universe. it had good ideas (cap as panther, ultron as the villain, tony sex scandal) but some of it was overdone (such as grifter...i mean hawkeye's pissy personality).

[Chris Major]

Well, in his defense, Hawkeye did get his wife and three kids blown away by Black Widow in Ultimates 2... so I guess he's not over that yet.

Would you have?

[gadgetwk]

i do realize that, but he just didn't seem like the hawkeye from the previous volumes. even with that weight on his shoulders. i think my main problem with him was just the character designs.

i hated the art more than i hated the writing, i'll admit.

[AlexT17]

Has anyone picked up the latest issue of Hulk? I want to know what happened but I don't want to buy it because I've sworn myself from reading the book.

[NickRocks]

this book keeps getting better and better. Hulk 16 was awesome. Rulk's monologues about his father...i like the way loeb revealed that rulk was ross in 600 on the double page splash. he didnt come out and say it, but all the clues are there. leonard samson as the double crosser? all the heroes against rulk? I cant wait for issue 17

[NickRocks]

so this book strolls right into FOTH, and man things are getting AWESOME

[jbwill84]

I read through this whole thread and I feel obligated to post.

I liked Loeb when I was a kid. I don't have the heart to go back and reread those stories because I'm afraid it's just childhood nostalgia. Ultimates 3 hurt my feelings it was so bad. Rulk makes me cringe.

It's not so much that Loeb's writing is bad that bothers me, it's that he just completely disregards some good work that writers have done with characters in the past, just so he can shoehorn said characters and events into his story. That's the nature of superhero comics, sure, but Loeb dials it up to 11.

[Random Hero 7]

i think it aint that bad, i have seen better, but i also have seen worse. its one of those things where someones good on one title but not another. i.e. i like JOHN ROMITA JR on the amazing spider-man, but wasnt that big of a fan on his hulk run.