PDA

View Full Version : CBC: Maus Vol. 1 & 2



DJ Kenobi
08-04-2008, 02:05 PM
CBC: Maus 1&2

Perhaps no comic book has done more to defeat the mainstream stereotype that comics are only children’s literature than Art Spiegelman’s Maus. In the 1990s, Maus was hailed as a literary achievement--especially after winning the Pulitzer Prize in 1992--and was used as an example of how comics could be literature too. Now, in the 2000s, Maus is often cited as an example of how comics are neither literature nor filmic; instead, they are a unique visual-verbal blend. The comic book medium can do things that neither a solely text-based book nor a film nor a piece of fine art can accomplish.

Topic 1: Maus as a comic book.

How does Maus take advantage of the visual-verbal blend that makes comics unique?

To get the ball rolling… I find Spiegelman’s use of repetition to create links between the past and present as an area where the potential of the comic book form is clearly capitalized upon. This is something Spiegelman does throughout Maus. For example, on page 59 of Volume II, Vladek is describing the Belgian boy that had the bunk above him in Auschwitz. As Vladek says, “He had maybe a rash, and they wrote his number… Any time they could take him. All night he cried and screamed.” The panel accompanying the scream portrays the scream as “AAWOOWWAH!” The Belgian boy is so unsure of what the future holds and the fear of being taken at any time causes the boy to scream out, “AAWOOWWAH!” At the end of the same chapter, Art and Francoise are on the porch of Vladek’s bungalow and Vladek begins to moan from inside (II.74). For Art, Vladek has always moaned in his sleep. Vladek moans, “AAWOOWWAH!” The same exact phoneticized spelling and the same font as the earlier moan symbolizing both Vladek’s inability to escape his memories of the Holocaust, but also a reflection of his current situation in life. Vladek is also unsure of his future. Mala has left him, Art has no desire to stay in the Catskills with him all summer, and his health is not particularly great. In a film, the sound of the moans would differ with the character and the moans realistically could not be identical, also they would be fleeting. In a novel, actually spelling out the moan goes against convention and would not likely occur. Instead it would merely say, “He moaned.” But in Maus the moan is represented visually and uses typological cues to make the connection between the two instances of the moan. Furthermore, the comic book medium allows the reader more control over the pace in which the story is read/viewed/processed and lends itself toward flipping back to find the repetition.

Examples of this use of repetition can be found throughout Maus. Example: in the same chapter, the Nazi use of Zyklon B, a pesticide, to kill Jews and then pages later Art’s use of bug spray, a pesticide, to kill mosquitoes. This begs the question, why make this connection? What is Spiegelman pointing out here?

So again I ask, how does Maus take advantage of the visual-verbal blend that makes comics unique?


Topic 2: The animal aspect.

Harvey Pekar has stated that he is troubled by Spiegelman’s decision to make each ethnic group a different species of animal--and reflect the simplistic characteristics of these species as ethnic differences. Is the depiction of species/ethnicity in Maus really deterministic? Did the Jews not fight back because mice don’t fight back against cats? Is it more natural--and less horrifying--for cats to kill mice than vice versa? Does it make a difference that the Nazis believed that they were fighting a war against another species instead of other humans? (This is indicated in Volume One’s epigraph, which is a quote from Hitler.)

Then again, is Spiegelman’s use of different animal species the only way to portray the unthinkable? We are so far removed from the reality of the Holocaust and its horrors that one might question whether any artistic creation can truly represent the Holocaust, even if the characters are represented as humans rather than different types of animals. Perhaps by constantly reminding the reader that this is an illustrated account--not the real thing--Spiegelman is saying that he cannot truly represent the Holocaust. But does this ultimately soften the horror for the reader (such as the soldiers killing children against walls, I.108, or Auschwitz, II.72)? Does the use of animals remove the atrocities from the realm of human experience?


Topic 3: The Ending

Does the end of Volume II of Maus give us a cathartic moment? In Bedford/St. Martin’s Glossary of Literary Terms, catharsis is described this way:

Meaning "purgation," catharsis describes the release of the emotions of pity and fear by the audience at the end of a tragedy. In his Poetics, Aristotle discusses the importance of catharsis. The audience faces the misfortunes of the protagonist, which elicit pity and compassion. Simultaneously, the audience also confronts the failure of the protagonist, thus receiving a frightening reminder of human limitations and frailties. Ultimately, however, both these negative emotions are purged, because the tragic protagonist’s suffering is an affirmation of human values rather than a despairing denial of them.

On the last page of Volume II, we see Vladek reunited in his story with Anya. Vladek says, “More I don’t need to tell you. We were both very happy, and lived happy, happy ever after.” This would seem like the trademark cathartic ending. However, we know by this point that they did not live happily ever after. Further complicating this is that Vladek’s storybook ending is quickly followed by his mistaking of Art for Richieu and then his and Anya’s gravestone.

Does this ending give us a catharsis? Should there be a catharsis for the reader? Should we be allowed to walk away from a tale of the Holocaust with any feeling of happiness, relief, or hope?


These are three possible starting points for our discussion of Maus. If you have topics that you would like to bring up during our two week discussion of Maus, please feel welcome to do so.

CBC guidelines (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showpost.php?p=928573&postcount=1)


Reminder: Two weeks from now we will start our second book in PJ:CBC on August 18th. The book will be City of Glass by Paul Auster, Paul Karasik, and David Mazzucchelli.
http://www.amazon.com/City-Glass-Graphic-Paul-Auster/dp/0312423608/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217880213&sr=8-2

fatmancomics
08-04-2008, 09:27 PM
On topic 1 I agree with you that Spiegelman has done a good job of using the medium to go back and forth and there are plenty more examples of that in the book but I won't waste time pointing them out.

On topic 2 I have to admit that the use of animals may have "dumbed" it down a bit for me. I can see why Spiegelman would use animals, particularly mice, since it is an easy way to convey the helplessness that these people felt during their ordeals along with his own criticism of the Jewish culture. Every other race depicted, with the exception possibly of the French, was an animal that in the real world towers over a mouse so the mouse is defenseless against them. But I also noticed that Art can't help but be amazed that there was little resistance as well as the fact that so many Jews took advantage of each other during such a time and that might also be a reason for picking mice as the depiction of his people. It seems to me that sometimes he's saying that he doesn't respect them (and we know that he does not admire his father for sure) any more than he can respect a mouse.
But the "dumbing" down I mentioned before has more to do with the violence in the book. Even the areas where the book has very graphic depictions of death I couldn't help but be detached because it wasn't (visually) humans that I was looking at. I read the Complete Maus so I don't know if the comic Spiegelman did about his mother's suicide was included in the editions the rest of you read but that comic was more jolting to me and I think it was mainly because the characters were depicted as human.
However I do feel that, had I read this book before I saw movies like Schindler's List, it would have been more jarring since I would not be as desensitized as I am now.

On topic 3 I don't think it was cathartic; at least not to the reader. Again, my edition had a few pages where I got to see Spiegelman confessing his guilt over having done this project after his father died so, if it was cathartic, it was cathartic only for the writer. The fact that his mother killed herself, the fact that his father burned her diaries and we never got to see her side of the story but we got to see how much he hated his father while he was still alive were present until the very end so the "happy ending" seems more like a fantasy that Spiegelman needs in order to deal with his guilt than what his father trully feels.

Ugga Bugga
08-06-2008, 04:43 PM
Maus I and Maus II, ought to be required reading for anyone interested in the visual storytelling that comics can achieve in a way that no other medium can in fact convey.

The use of animals in any other medium would seem out of place,

Once engrossed in the story, it becomes simple to look past the animalization of the characters to see them as individuals. Yet, making each race a distinct species helps to instantly catagorize each character in an instant way, in the way that Spiegelman wanted. Very effective.

The use of mice, as one of the smallest creatures, and perhaps most helpless was very apt. One must understand, at the time these atrocities took place, the Jews of Europe and elsewhere in the world, had no country of their own. They were simply dispersed into other people's cultures, trying to survive. While the world knew that the situation was bad, many countries closed their doors to the Jews. The world had a "its not my problem" attitude.

I believe that it is impossible to read this without understanding that it is written by the child of a survivor. What many people don't understand is the psychological effect this event has had on the next generation.

There are support groups, and conventions dedicated to the children of survivor's and their issues. Writing this book was obviously meant to be catartic for Spiegelman. Trying to understand his father, and what made him the way he was, was the mission in my view.

I don't think that he hated his father, in any way shape or form. he loved him, and loved him deeply, which is why he went to such great lengths to understand his story. He was annoyed and aggravated by his Dad. However, there is a deep love and respect inherent in the pages of Maus.

Crimson Spider
08-07-2008, 02:48 AM
When said aloud, "Maus" sounds very close to "mouse." Given that the writer used mice in representing his main characters, I would assume that was intentional. However, we have no real way of determining the accuracy of this assumption.

Having not read the books, I'm afraid that will be the extent of my contribution.

DJ Kenobi
08-07-2008, 01:02 PM
...so the "happy ending" seems more like a fantasy that Spiegelman needs in order to deal with his guilt than what his father truly feels.

A happy ending is all in knowing when to stop telling the story. I don’t necessarily think that the happy ending of Vladek and Mala’s reunion is a fantasy for Spiegelman since if the comic had been a more traditional tale of surviving the Holocaust it would have ended with their reunion. However, Maus is only a tale of the Holocaust in part. It is at least equally a story of the relationship of a father and son living after the Holocaust and dealing with the lasting trauma. Under these circumstances, I think the last page of Maus is an excellent visual representation of this theme.

Vladek’s narrative of the Holocaust exists solely for him in the past and it ends when he is reunited with Mala. Everything after that is not part of the Holocause for Vladek, just as he felt that his relationship with … at the beginning of Volume 1 should not be included because it had “nothing to do with Hitler.” However, Maus is also the story of Art, and in many respects the story of Art presented in Maus is everything that happens between these 2 panels, between his parents’ reunion and Vladek’s death.



When said aloud, "Maus" sounds very close to "mouse." Given that the writer used mice in representing his main characters, I would assume that was intentional. However, we have no real way of determining the accuracy of this assumption.

"Maus" is the German word for "mouse," so I think we can comfortably assume the connection is intentional.

Tied to the word connection and the animal aspect is Spiegelman's research. In Volume II I believe (don't have the books in front of me right now), Spiegelman says that he borrowed the idea of portraying the Jews as mice from the Germans. German political cartoons leading up to and throughout WWII portrayed the Jews as vermin. This is a relatively common theme throughout the history of political cartooning during times of national duress. After 9/11 Al-Qaeda and the group's potential allies were often portrayed as rats or vermin by American political cartoonists, to show how sturdy this theme in political cartooning has proven. When Spiegelman chooses to portray the Jews as mice, he is using the iconography used leading up to and throughout the Holocaust, but at the same time, he is also parodying this representation. The discussion with Franciouse about whether she should be a mouse or a frog, the wearing of a mouse mask by Art in Chapter 2 of Vol. 2, the fullness of the characters who are not controlled by their animalistic representation... all of these point out the absurdity of the metaphor and its inability to accurately reflect the complicated reality of the situation.

fatmancomics
08-07-2008, 06:13 PM
Hmm... About the relationship with his father: Yes, I agree that he loved him. He loved him enough to tell his story and to show the world just how much his father has affected him. The insane amount of grief that he feels after his death is also proof of this. But it is possible to love your father and hate him at the same time. I love my father to the point of getting in fights with other relatives if they bad mouth him but there are still things that he did and said to me that I will forever hate him for. It's common to have resentments towards both your parents and Spiegelman is no different. He showed us that he resented his mother for her suicide and he showed us that he resented his father for his behavior (probably caused by his experiences during the holocaust) throughout the whole book.

About the happy ending: I think what I meant to say is not that it was made up but that placing their reunion at the end of the book fulfills the fantasy of the happy ending that Spiegelman might need in order to cope with both his parents' deaths. Vladik, for any redeeming qualities he may have had, still had so many flaws that his own son admitted that he probably could never live with him without going insane. Anja, as seen in the comic dealing with her suicide was also a nuisance to Spiegelman and, even though we see that he loves her by how angry he is that he can't tell her side of the story when Vladek confesses to burning her journals, Spiegelman still resents her for the guilt she has heaped on him forever via her suicide. "You murdered me mommy, and you left me here to take the rap!!" are his final words in the suicide comic.

Crimson Spider
08-07-2008, 06:41 PM
I was merely trying to make a joke. I wanted to join in and had no real input because I never read the books, so I thought an attempt at being funny would count as a contribution. I guess that didn't come across the way I intended it to.

fatmancomics
08-07-2008, 11:44 PM
I was merely trying to make a joke. I wanted to join in and had no real input because I never read the books, so I thought an attempt at being funny would count as a contribution. I guess that didn't come across the way I intended it to.

Kinda tough to get away with a joke with this subject matter. Why not go to your library and check out a copy, read it, and then join in on the discussion? I read it in three days and didn't have to put everything else aside to do it.

DJ Kenobi
08-07-2008, 11:50 PM
I was merely trying to make a joke. I wanted to join in and had no real input because I never read the books, so I thought an attempt at being funny would count as a contribution. I guess that didn't come across the way I intended it to.

Curse my inability to catch comedy on the internet! :p

Crimson Spider
08-08-2008, 07:04 AM
Kinda tough to get away with a joke with this subject matter. Why not go to your library and check out a copy, read it, and then join in on the discussion? I read it in three days and didn't have to put everything else aside to do it.

No library I know of has this book or any other graphic novels.

Ugga Bugga
08-08-2008, 10:39 AM
Hmm... About the relationship with his father: Yes, I agree that he loved him. He loved him enough to tell his story and to show the world just how much his father has affected him. The insane amount of grief that he feels after his death is also proof of this. But it is possible to love your father and hate him at the same time. I love my father to the point of getting in fights with other relatives if they bad mouth him but there are still things that he did and said to me that I will forever hate him for. It's common to have resentments towards both your parents and Spiegelman is no different. He showed us that he resented his mother for her suicide and he showed us that he resented his father for his behavior (probably caused by his experiences during the holocaust) throughout the whole book.

About the happy ending: I think what I meant to say is not that it was made up but that placing their reunion at the end of the book fulfills the fantasy of the happy ending that Spiegelman might need in order to cope with both his parents' deaths. Vladik, for any redeeming qualities he may have had, still had so many flaws that his own son admitted that he probably could never live with him without going insane. Anja, as seen in the comic dealing with her suicide was also a nuisance to Spiegelman and, even though we see that he loves her by how angry he is that he can't tell her side of the story when Vladek confesses to burning her journals, Spiegelman still resents her for the guilt she has heaped on him forever via her suicide. "You murdered me mommy, and you left me here to take the rap!!" are his final words in the suicide comic.

I think this is good analysis.

There clearly is a lot of resentment. Vladek's and Anja's ****ed up life, ****ed up the son's life. But given the experience that V and A had, Spiegelman feels guilty for feeling the way that he does towards his parents. However guilt notwithstanding, he still feels that way, and needs to deal with it.

No amount of writing is going to totally make these feelings go away.

Regarding the "happy ending". In the midst of all the hell, there were victories. Things and events that made people keep fighting and going. By "ending" the book this way, he leaves us with a story of hope instead of despair, which I think was the intention.

But I do get the sense that there are plenty of more stories that could be included in a Maus 3, if Spiegelman was so inclined, though I doubt he ever will be. So maybe it isn't an ending, rather just a pause until the next story is to be told.

chia
12-07-2008, 11:44 AM
No library I know of has this book or any other graphic novels.

Buy it. You will not regret it.

j3tt
01-19-2009, 12:54 AM
Yea, Maus really tugged on the ol' heart strings when I read it. You totally forget that they're mice. What a tragedy.

Geekboy
10-07-2009, 03:03 PM
I know this is an old thread and all, but I just bought Maus after getting it out of the library about a million times.

I don't think the animal metaphor softens it at all. It makes the reader more easily empathize with the characters, if anything. If you've read Understanding Comics, McCloud goes into a whole thing about how cartoony characters are easier to identify personally with than a more detailed rendering thanks to you being able to replace the character with yourself since you're not seeing features that mark you as being different from them. I'm not a mouse or a cat, but I'm also not Jewish. For most people, it's easier to accept that everyone has been replaced by cartoons and place themselves in the roles of the characters they're seenig than it is to put themselves into a different culture's shoes. It's a difference between being general and specific. The animal metaphor let's Spiegelman be both.

Most people also have an instant affection for anything cartoony, so seeing a baby cartoon character's brains being splattered against a wall is perhaps even more unsettling than seeing a realistic drawing of the same event. Spiegelman's artistic shorthand also manages to give scenes like this enough detail to disturb you while leaving enough to the imagination to let you flesh it out into something more horrendous than anything any artist could ever draw.

Maus' ending is far from a happy one. At most it's bittersweet. The "happily ever after" is juxtaposed against a story that is anything but a fairy tale, showing how ridiculous the expectation that everything will work out in the end is. Vladak is emotionally crippled, Art's a mess, Anja commited suicide, . . . nobody in this tale comes out without scars. You're reading this book full of cartoony animals, so maybe the expectation that things will end happily is there, but it isn't what happened.

In a way, it's even a bit of a tease. As far as the story of the war and the Holocaust goes, their ending was a happy one. But then the sun rises on the next day, and the next, and the next. We're so happy they found each other, but we know how much pain and tragedy the rest of their lives would bring.

To me, Maus more than any other book taught me what a wonderfully personal vision of the world comics can express. A director may have a vision for their movie, but it will be interpreted by their cinematographer, camera operators, and editor (among many others). Art's vision for this book was interpreted by his hand, but that's about it. It is his creation from start to finish, which is something that no other medium can do quite so well.

The printed word relies too much on the reader's imagination, film is too complex to be so direct (unless it's a dude with a camcorder, but most of those kinds of art films are frankly unwatchable), and single images tell too little of the story to lead someone along the way a comic can.

I've ranted sufficiently for now, I think.

Maus is great. If you haven't yet, go buy it. Now.

Bach2099
02-27-2011, 12:34 PM
I just got Maus vol 1 and 2 in the mail, late birthday present for myself. Can't wait to get started on this story and hopefully add a bit to this conversation.

Ugga Bugga
02-27-2011, 12:43 PM
well worth the read. Having survivors in my own family, I loved reading about the experience of others. The scars of this sort of trauma lives on in further generations. It is well documented in this great book.

Pete Tha Creep
08-18-2012, 10:56 AM
I think the fact that he used the mice as depiction of the jews directly refers to Hitler categorizing the Jews as Vermin, which mice are counted to. In my version of the book, there's a quote of Hitler in the beginning,
where he is saying it should be "just and righteous to get rid of a race, which is reproducing like vermin" (rough translation by me)

I once read in a social study called "The Established and the Outsiders" from 1965, that this behaviour can be seen in oppressed groups within any society. ( very good lecture by the way )
That people who are treated as minor, or unworthy, begin to use the same descriptions for themselves.
Easy examples would be black people in Northamerica using the n-word for themselves, or the Punk movement in the seventies in Great Britain, where the unemployed youth began to claim the negative attributes of being loud, drunk and useless to their form of identification. ( generalizations possible )

Like somebody said before, i think that the choice for mice as characters relates to a certain disregard of Spiegelman to "the" jews, and the "selfvictimization" of the persecuted. Showing them in the way the Nazis thought of them, and made them think of themselves. I think it also shows the conflict that his generation must be in. How can they relate to what happened? How would have they reacted in the same situation?

I think that a very difficult psychological effect lead to the choice, which is much more subtle and varied than the obvious attributes and associations made with this species.