Ask Loston (Dr. Stupid Jr)...

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston, is the guy on the Forum named Batfan (?), who said that he followed you over here to PJ ....actually THE Batfan who is in Ripley's believe it or not for the biggest collection of Batman memoriablia?

I think he is probably the same fellow, but you should really ask Lee "THE Batfan" Johnson about that. I do know for sure that he's a true Batman fan and collector, with a real love for the coolest character in comicdom, a generous and stand-up fellow.

Loston, another Bat fan

[sdowner]

...with a real love for the coolest character in comicdom...
Dear Loston,
Why does your friend call himself "Batfan" if he's got a real love for Razor Fist, who is objectively the coolest character in comics?

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/razorfistii1.jpg

Your puzzled fan,
Steve-O

[Bruce Lee]

Dear Loston,
Why does your friend call himself "Batfan" if he's got a real love for Razor Fist, who is objectively the coolest character in comics?

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/razorfistii1.jpg

Your puzzled fan,
Steve-O

I think Batman is actually cooler, because he doesn't need an assistant to help him wipe his backside for him. Razor Fist no doubt has trouble in that department...:x

Loston

[TheMayor]

Maybe he uses a bidet.

[The Batfan]

I think he is probably the same fellow, but you should really ask Lee "THE Batfan" Johnson about that. I do know for sure that he's a true Batman fan and collector, with a real love for the coolest character in comicdom, a generous and stand-up fellow.

Loston, another Bat fan

Loston your toooo nice a fella your a awesome artist and a fellow batfan in my book. bathill ya never know who ya might run across on a forum ;)

[Bathill8]

Loston your toooo nice a fella your a awesome artist and a fellow batfan in my book. bathill ya never know who ya might run across on a forum ;)

Never thought I'd "run into" a legendary fan of the man! Thanks Loston, for you subtle clarification, my friend! ;)

[Human Kaleidoscope]

I'm just curious....you ever get to create much of your own stuff in your field, Loston? You know...characters you can call your own and such. I understand illustrating reqiures a lot drawing someone else's material, but I was just wondering anyway.

[Brian Germain]

Hey Loston I have idea on this one too. Something I have done when not able to get time to use my brush is this with a uni-ball pen try starting at the slight wider and and going toward the taper with a slow to fast flicking motion and raising of the pen from the paper at the wider end since you are moving slower the pen has a chance to bleed out slightly and since you move the pen some of that pbleed is carried with it bringing you to the finer point when the pen finally gets up to speed I would suggest practicing this alot first on scrap copies. Also if all else fails an extremely slow way of doing this is inking with a magnifying glass and an extremely thin tip deleter or copic pen.


Well, if you're accomplished enough with the brush, that would be the best way to go. Since you have had limited success freehanding such lines with a brush so far, you might try practicing those lines using a ruler to guide your brush. You'll need to lift up one side of the ruler about 45 degrees off the paper when you practise this technique so that the metal part of your brush can slide alongside the ruler as you put down the line.

If that still isn't working for you, then you can try using a disposable pen and a ruler. Use a thicker point pen (I recommend a Medium size Faber-Castell Pitt Artist Pen) and a ruler, quickly practice dragging your the line, pulling the line away from your body. You should get a decent thick to thin ratio that way. You may need to go back and add a little to your line at the back, just to get the triangular tapering look right, but it can work pretty well. This is probably the easiest way to tackle those "zap" lines on Byrne's page.

Hope that helps.

Loston

[midLfinger]

Loston, I was wondering if you had any advice for using perspective in drawing a round room (like a football stadium). Usually rooms have straight lines that can be drawn to a vanishing point. Round rooms are tough for me.

[Bruce Lee]

I'm just curious....you ever get to create much of your own stuff in your field, Loston? You know...characters you can call your own and such. I understand illustrating reqiures a lot drawing someone else's material, but I was just wondering anyway.

That's the worst part of being everyone else's monkey--you don't get to create much of your own stuff. But I do have some pulp characters I have co-created with writer Micah Harris. I hope you'll see them in the future. I've also co-created many of the characters in LORNA RELIC WRANGLER, which will be debuting through Image Comics in the Spring. :) Eventually I hope to do a project with Jeremy Dale that will involve my Mogarr character. Just now though, we're both too busy to work on that. Hopefully sometime in the future, that will change.

Loston

[Ugga Bugga]

How badly does Mogarr fear Mogarr Hunter. I reckon very badly.

[Bruce Lee]

How badly does Mogarr fear Mogarr Hunter. I reckon very badly.



http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/korintic/jibletsugga3.gif

[Anubis2kx]

This is a very insightful and educational thread. Keep up the great work Loston!!

[alfred183]

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere. My question: What was your drawing regimen like when you started to get 'good'? Did you do a certain amount of time for sketching, anatomy, fruit etc?

Also, Biel or Alba?

[CoreyPledger]

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere. My question: What was your drawing regimen like when you started to get 'good'? Did you do a certain amount of time for sketching, anatomy, fruit etc?

Also, Biel or Alba?

Toughie, but I'd have to say Biel.

[Bruce Lee]

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere. My question: What was your drawing regimen like when you started to get 'good'? Did you do a certain amount of time for sketching, anatomy, fruit etc?

Also, Biel or Alba?

You know, alfred, there's a bit of a misconception that we artists have in regards to skill, producing pro work and so forth. Based on my experience, an artist just doesn't become 'good' after a set or specific amount of time or amount of effort. We all move at our own pace, and hopefully we get better every single time we draw something. I know that's not necessarily an answer that entirely satisfies your question though, so I will try to relate my personal experience on the matter.

Before attending the Joe Kubert School of Graphic Art I rarely finished very many pieces of art. I didn't draw all that often--maybe a few times a month, maybe. Sometimes I drew for a few hours, and sometimes only for a few minutes. At the Kubert School, I spent 13 hours a day drawing. Every day. It was an incredible change for me, but it was necessary to keep up with all the homework assignments from 10 classes a week. Some classes gave you a single page to draw, but others sometimes gave you two or even three pages, due the following week. Sometimes it was just pencils, sometimes pencils and ink, and sometimes full color. With the exception of life drawing class, almost all the classes assigned at least one page of work due the following week, so the only way to get the work done was to go straight home and work late to get it done. You tried to finish as much as you possibly could on an assignment in one night or in class (provided you were allowed the work time during a class period) in an effort not to fall behind. It was a grueling pace and grind, but it was all in preparation for becoming a freelance artist. Pros have deadlines to make, and the only way to make deadlines is to learn how to manage your time wisely and put you nose to the grindstone and GET IT DONE.

With every finished piece of art, comic page, painting, etc., skill was being gained--skill in drawing, time management, speed, and even skill in finding the best way to solve artistic difficulties. The sure volume of artwork was key in artists gaining experience. There's nothing like actual experience. No amount of information in a book will give you as much knowledge and know-how as on-the-job training.

When I left the school I went into roleplaying gaming illustration, working for games like DEADLANDS, BATTLETECH, STAR WARS, GURPS, etc. The assignments always varied, and I often took on two or three projects at the same time--frequently for different companies, with each assigning their own deadlines. Usually these deadlines were reasonable, but rarely were they extended deadlines, and often they were tight. I sometimes found myself with 72-100 or more drawings to produce in pen & ink! Sometimes these were manageable quarter page illustrations, sometimes half page illustrations, but often many were full page illustrations. I worked fast to meet deadlines, doing the best job I could in the time frame I was allotted. Never was any of it my BEST work. There wasn't any time for that, and here's the reality check: there rarely ever IS time for such things where deadlines are concerned. If you don't produce, you do no one any favors. If you miss deadlines, it costs companies money and you cease to be a commodity, no matter how talented you are. The trick was to do the best you could manage, and try to get better despite the deadline pressure. Not easy, but that's the whole ball game. Apparently I did good enough work to garner a rep as being "good and fast". In truth, I doubt that I was either, but compared to much of my competition, I guess I stacked up well enough.

I learned on the job. I experimented with different inking tools, zipatones, duo-shades, inks, drawing tools, drawing methods--you name it, I tried it out. I met with many great successes as well as failures, but I kept trying to get better. I'm STILL trying to get better all these years later. I'm still never satisfied with my art. The day that I begin patting myself on the back too much is the day I become no good to anyone, as far as I'm concerned. There is some difference between having confidence in your work and being narcissistic, and I hope I never fall into the trap of the latter. Drawing has become easier for me over the years. This is true. But it wasn't always easy, and sometimes it is still difficult at times. I have days when everything I draw winds up in the waste basket. Sometimes I find myself struggling with the simplest things, but the seemingly difficult things might offer only the slightest of challenges. That's art for you. That's life too. The best advice I can give anyone who wants to become a pro or get better at art is to simply draw. Draw often. Draw a lot. Pay attention to the real world--not just to comics, books and animation. The real world is where the solutions to all your drawing problems can be answered.

Next!

Loston

P.S. Biel or Alba? Is that all the choice I get? ;)

[Saturn Lad]

Here's an interesting quotation regarding the amount of practice and time needed to master a skill:

The emerging scientific picture is that 10,000 hours of practice is required to achieve the level of mastery associated with being a world-class expert in anything. In study after study, of composers, basketball players, fiction writers, ice skaters, concert pianists, chess players, master criminals, and what have you, this number comes up again and again.

Now how long is ten thousand hours? It is equal to roughly 3 hours of practice a day, or twenty hours a week, of practice for ten years. Of course some people never reach mastery, which is not really explainable yet. But, no one has found a case in which true world-class expertise was accomplished in less time. It seems that it takes the brain this long to assimilate all that it needs to know to achieve true mastery. -Daniel Levitin
An interesting point regarding the practice is that it needs to be progressive as well, continually challenging yourself with new goals and more complicated techniques.

[richster99]

[QUOTE=Bruce Lee;1062807
P.S. Biel or Alba? Is that all the choice I get? ;)[/QUOTE]

okay, how's Biel or Alba or Simpson or Tandy sound?

[Bruce Lee]

okay, how's Biel or Alba or Simpson or Tandy sound?


Tandy? Yeah, Jessica Tandy is wicked-HOT...

http://www.christilling.de/pics/driving.jpeg


....but she's dead though....:skull:

[k0b13]

How do you transfer thumbnails to regular comic drawing paper? Sorry if this has been asked before.

[cabbage300]

Hey loston, could you do a tutorial on composition? Not so much page composition but more for a pin up, or a a pummel piece say. It's something i've been having trouble with and could use some advice. Cheers

[Bruce Lee]

Hey loston, could you do a tutorial on composition? Not so much page composition but more for a pin up, or a a pummel piece say. It's something i've been having trouble with and could use some advice. Cheers

It would be very difficult to do a single tutorial on composition, as it's too broad a subject to cover. Arranging objects within a space is something that you can learn, but it takes some time, trial and error, experience and developing an understanding regarding depth of field, spacial awareness, contrast, etc.

When I was given this subforum board, I was asked to not turn my LAB TECH board into my own personal critiquing forum or to do anything with it that would resemble the old CRITICAL MASS board that I once co-moderated. This is something I agreed to do, so I can't critique your drawing here. I think it's okay for me to answer some questions about art and so forth in a thread like this, but I don't want to break my promise. If you are truly concerned with the layout of your pummel drawing though, I recommend putting it up on the SKETCH & WORK IN PROGRESS board. Ask for assistance there, as it's the designated area for getting critiques on WIP artworks. You would then get the advice of many of PJ's artists, and I might also be able to assist with feedback or even an overlay.

Loston

[Bruce Lee]

How do you transfer thumbnails to regular comic drawing paper? Sorry if this has been asked before.

Most people redraw the layout shapes onto the drawing board while eyeballing their thumbnails. That's the traditional way of doing things. However if you wanted too, you could blow your thumbnails up with a photocopier to the appropriate size needed for transfer. You could also do this by scanning your thumbnails into Photoshop, enlarging them and printing them out (if you have only an 8.5X11 printer, you'll have to print the 10X15 full size blow-up image out in two sections). Then you could either lightbox the thumbnails onto the board, or use the graphite "carbon copy" method I explain here in my "MAKING A CARBON TRANSFER" thread:
http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90255

Loston

[k0b13]

Thanks man. :-)

[cabbage300]

Hey Loston, thanks for replying.
When i said a Pummel piece i just meant it as an example of a non sequetial page (
Not so much page composition but more for a pin up, or a a pummel piece say. ) i wasn't referring to a specific piece i had done. Do you know of any good books that tackle the subject? I feel like it's really holding me back:confused:
Thx again

[Bruce Lee]

Cabbage,

Photography is all about finding good composition, so I recommend buying a few books on the subject. Many photography books deal primarily with the matter of composition, so that might be the best place for you to start. Here's some books on Amazon that might be of interest to you:

Here's some books that might prove to be useful to you:

PHOTOGRAPHY: THE ART OF COMPOSITION--
http://www.amazon.com/Photography-Art-Composition-Bert-Krages/dp/1581154097/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251482626&sr=8-1

THE PHOTOGRAPHER'S EYE--
http://www.amazon.com/Photographers-Eye-Composition-Design-Digital/dp/B002BL3HWY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251482681&sr=8-2

THE ELEMENTS OF PHOTOGRAPHY: CREATING & UNDERSTANDING SOPHISTICATED IMAGES--
http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Photography-Understanding-Creating-Sophisticated/dp/0240809424/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251482769&sr=8-1

Loston

[Bruce Lee]

Thanks man. :-)

No worries. :)

Loston

[cabbage300]

Thanks Loston, you're right photography hadn't even occurred to me :)

[MilkManX]

Thanks! I just learned a ton by reading this thread.

[Bruce Lee]

Thanks! I just learned a ton by reading this thread.

Excellent! :) So far, I think this has been a very successful thread, so I appreciate the comment, Milk. :)





Next question please! :pj:

[pigeonmilk]

I have serious issues when drawing womens faces and expressions, they tend to come out looking more manly than anything.

Any tips?

[thebigone]

Hi Loston,

Maybe you could help?

For some time now I wanted to change my screen name, but I don't know how or if I even can do it. Can I do that?

Any chance you could help?

B-Seeing ya'.

[ScottEwen]

Hi Loston,

Maybe you could help?

For some time now I wanted to change my screen name, but I don't know how or if I even can do it. Can I do that?

Any chance you could help?

B-Seeing ya'.


May I change my username?
In some cases, you may be granted a username change if you ask nicely. However, you only get one name change - ever - so use it wisely. If you simply MUST change your username, take the time to think it through and ensure it's the name you want to stick with for the rest of your time here at penciljack.com. The "staff" here simply doesn't have enough time to spend with frivolous name changes.

Only administrators can change your user name.

[Spidey]

Doesn't drawing sometimes make you hungrier than doing really hard physical labor?
I get that a lot. It's like using my brain drains my stomach more than when I use my body. It's like all the concentration requires a lot of resources from your body or something. I always wondered if other people got that too.

[jdmakescomics]

Doesn't drawing sometimes make you hungrier than doing really hard physical labor?
I get that a lot. It's like using my brain drains my stomach more than when I use my body. It's like all the concentration requires a lot of resources from your body or something. I always wondered if other people got that too.

I remember Dustin Nguyen mentioning getting that on one of his Deviantart journal entries.

I notice it too. Can't be healthy to need to load up on food after sitting still and moving only my arm for hours on end.

[Spidey]

I had to look that journal entry up. It was almost an year back about holiday season time. I totally agree with him about how I don't notice how much food I'm stuffing down my throat. I lucked out by having high metabolism and not having to worry about fluffing up, but it's still a major distraction.

[thebigone]

Thanks Scott. :)

[thebigone]

Wait, I checked the "contols" and "faq" and I could not find an administrator. Do you think you can point me in the right direction, Scott?

[thebigone]

Forget it :) I found it at the bottom, thanks again!

[Bruce Lee]

Doesn't drawing sometimes make you hungrier than doing really hard physical labor?
I get that a lot. It's like using my brain drains my stomach more than when I use my body. It's like all the concentration requires a lot of resources from your body or something. I always wondered if other people got that too.

A lot of people think that drawing isn't hard work, but it's very physically demanding work. It's also mentally taxing too. While you may not walk away from your art desk as weak and wearing as someone who's been out digging a ditch all day, drawing demands a lot of energy. I tend to get pretty hungry after a full day or night's drawing. The key is to take breaks, stretch out your muscles some, and grab some carbs to keep your body motivated to get the work done.

Loston

[Bruce Lee]

I have serious issues when drawing womens faces and expressions, they tend to come out looking more manly than anything.

Any tips?

Play up femininity as often as you can. While it's true that not all women have "feminine" facial features, I think it's important to try to convey the differences between male and female when drawing characters. I'm not big on ambiguity when it comes to conveying messages in artwork. I'm much more into conveying clear messages, so I will go out of my way to play up the feminine aspects of a female, or the masculine aspects of a male whenever I can. I try to avoid giving women too strong of a jaw or too large of a chin, for instance. When drawing a male, I usually do the opposite, and play up the stronger jaw line and chin. While it's true that some women might possess strong jaws and larger chins, those sort of features often suggest masculinity rather than femininity. As an artist working in 2-D, it's good to understand that 2-D drawing has limitations, and to overcome these limitations, it's important to utilize familiar iconography to help get your artistic messages across. Whenever I can, I'll play up familiar aspects of femininity in faces. I play up eyelashes, for instance, and I approach drawing a woman's nose with the simplest shape and amount of line work possible. I will often make the nose on a female a little smaller than the nose I'd draw on a male character. I usually emphasize a woman's lips by defining them a little more as well. I wouldn't do that when drawing a guy--unless maybe I was drawing Tom Welling...;) . These sort of subtle things go a long way to distinguish the sexes.

As far as expressions go, I recommend that you keep a small portable mirror near your drawing area. Though men and women differ facially in terms of proportion and so forth, both sexes share the same facial muscles beneath the skin, so I recommend using your own face as a visual reference when drawing more complicated expressions. I also think it would be a good idea to start training your brain to observe people around you. Take notes. Do sketches. When watching television you might want to try to pay closer attention to the actor's expressions. Also pay attention to body language. People relate to expressions and body language. It's how we relate to each other, so if you want to tell stories with your artwork, you will need to work to master these things. In my opinion, expression and body language are both more vital than learning anatomy, perspective, etc.

If you want to know of a decent book on the subject of expressions that concentrates on the various facial muscles and all that, I recommend FACIAL EXPRESSIONS: A VISUAL REFERENCE FOR ARTISTS, by Mark Simon. It's a decent book on the subject:
http://www.amazon.com/Facial-Expressions-Visual-Reference-Artists/dp/0823016714/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252132205&sr=8-2

Hope that helps.

Loston

[BulTurp]

Hey Loston...im having trouble with shading/rendering costumes and clothes when inking sketches. I have mastered hair rendering but the other stuff seems a little confusing sometimes and i get stuck...

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston...im having trouble with shading/rendering costumes and clothes when inking sketches. I have mastered hair rendering but the other stuff seems a little confusing sometimes and i get stuck...

I recommend that you first determine your light source in your drawing. That's always a good place to begin. Once you do that you can begin to figure out where the light falls on your figures, and where it doesn't. If you need to, don't be afraid to seek out some photo reference with figures that are lighted/shadowed in a similar fashion. I recommend keeping your lighting simple to start with--nothing too fancy. Start off practicing with a light source directly overhead. This means all the shadows will occur on the down planes of the figure, and all cast shadows will fall under prominent features, such as under the chin, under the nose, pecs, etc. Practice first on a figure without clothes, then on a figure fully clothed. You can post your results on the PJ Lab boards for criticism and review. People here on PJ, myself included, will be glad to offer advice and suggestions. Give me a heads-up when you do via a PM and I'll be sure to chime in with some comments--maybe even a lighting overlay to help if you'd like. :)

Loston

[BulTurp]

Thanks...im rendering "The Hood" character at the moment, its inked and now i just have to apply shadows and such...Ive allways had troubles with shadows/rendering but had fun inking..lol...once i finish ill post for some critique and maybe you can show me some the correct way

[Ra Havok]

Hey Loston. What's up, man? :)

I've got a question. I struggle every time when drawings hands wrapped around the handle of a sword. (In all kinds of crazy angles, of course) Is there some sort of trick for it, a system? Some insights that you might share?
I just can't make it seem 'ok' when I draw it from my mind. So I always have to self-reference. Which isn't that bad, but ideally I would like to be able to draw it without ref.

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston. What's up, man? :)

I've got a question. I struggle every time when drawings hands wrapped around the handle of a sword. (In all kinds of crazy angles, of course) Is there some sort of trick for it, a system? Some insights that you might share?
I just can't make it seem 'ok' when I draw it from my mind. So I always have to self-reference. Which isn't that bad, but ideally I would like to be able to draw it without ref.

I know a few tricks, but I think you need to attack this bit of artistic weakness head-on. Reference images in books and on the web can only grant you so much information, but real world experience and familiarity will garner far more artistic knowledge than any quick formula or reference image. A reference image might solve your immediate problem, but you might still be left with the same artistic shortcoming afterwards. The luxury and convenience of using reference images often equates to a quick-fix solution if an artist doesn't stop and try to force themselves to take something away from the referencing experience. I think studying reference images might help you some, but there's a much better way to go. This might sound overly obvious, but I think that you should begin to tackle this problem by actually familiarize yourself with the act of holding a sword in your hand.

Is it possible for you to have access to swords or sword replicas where you live? Do you have access to martial arts wooden practice swords such as bokens or the Kendo bamboo shinai? If so, get a hold of one for your artistic use. If you don't have a sword replica, try holding a knife that has a comparable handle as a sword. If you don't have that, you can even use a carpenter's hammer.

Hold the handle of the sword, replica, or sword substitute in your hand, and with pencil and paper, start jotting down some notes regarding your visual observations. Pay attention to the way your hand grips the sword handle, and the way your fingers bend around the handle. With your free hand, write down or sketch some notes as you observe the handle in your hand at various POVs and angles. You can have a friend pose with the object in hand, if that's easier. Focus on things like the position of the thumb during the gripping, the way the knuckles jut outward as the hand weilds the weight of the object. Visual observation is crucial to learning human anatomy, and we both know the value of lifedrawing exercises, right?

I recommend making notes along during this observation period because I think that the physical act of actually writing stuff down will help your brain filter and process the visual information. Forget about short-cuts, formulas and art tricks. Teach your brain to soak up what you observe from everyday life and you'll overcome your artistic obstacles. :pj:

[Ra Havok]

Now it's official, Loston:You're simply the best! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob6RRcw3V3A) :D

[Aurelius]

I like your work and I have been here before (a long time ago with different nom de plume). I was always a fan of "Big" John Buscema, and his brother Sal Buscema as well. I was curious as to your opinions on Marvel artists (I was lead to this when I saw your post of an old Conan artwork by John Buscema on the "artist shining moment" thread). Do you like John Buscema's work over lets John Romita Sr. (I think they are both great by the way). Who do you think did better layouts? Line work or just plain artwork? Who was more dynamic? (I would say John Buscema!).

[Bruce Lee]

I like your work and I have been here before (a long time ago with different nom de plume). I was always a fan of "Big" John Buscema, and his brother Sal Buscema as well. I was curious as to your opinions on Marvel artists (I was lead to this when I saw your post of an old Conan artwork by John Buscema on the "artist shining moment" thread). Do you like John Buscema's work over lets John Romita Sr. (I think they are both great by the way). Who do you think did better layouts? Line work or just plain artwork? Who was more dynamic? (I would say John Buscema!).

I always enjoyed John Buscema's work. He had the draftsmanship of a Hal Foster mixed with the dynamic energy of a Jack Kirby, and there was no denying Big John's storytelling abiities. While I love Romita Sr's considerable drawing skill--few could draw a beautiful babe the way Romita could-- I feel that Buscema did better dynamics and overall layout. THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN was at it's best in the Silver Age era when Gil Kane was laying out the book with Romita Sr finishing up the art in the inks. Gil Kane's contribution to SPIDER-MAN has always been underrated in my opinion. Many fans and pros alike often forget that some of the most memorable Spidey stories were actually penciled by Kane and inked/finished by Romita. Romita's heavy-handed approach to the finishes made the artwork seem like Romita figures, but the dynamics beneath the inks were those of Kane on many issues. I love Romita Sr's Spider-Man penciling, but he was never as dynamic as Gil Kane (or John Buscema for that matter). In turn, I think it's fair to say that Gil Kane was never the draftsman or the inker that Romita was. It's a bit of the old "apples vs oranges" thing.

When Ditko left Spidey, Romita was the right guy to take over. The book was different after Ditko, but in my mind it wasn't necessarily different in a negative way. Spider-Man as a title and as a character evolved. Romita is largely responsible for defining the look of the modern Spidey that we love today, and his son continues the evolution.

John Romita and Gil Kane are both comic greats. Kane excelled at foreshortening and dynamic layout, and John Romita was great at draftsmanship, expressions, etc. John Buscema was good with layout, draftsmanship and dynamic poses. He could ink too, but rarely had time to do that. Most of the time John Buscema produced loose pencils or breakdowns, so his work was usually at the mercy of his inker. If his inker was good, the end product was pretty awesome. If the inker was mediocre, the end product suffered.

Of the three artists I liked Buscema the most. His work speaks to me as an artist. It was raw and powerful, and it was always visually interesting. Buscema redefined characters like Conan and Thor, and his run as an artist on AVENGERS is still extremely well-regarded. His skills as an artist even made the Silver Surfer seem cool to me, and I've never really been a Surfer fan. I miss John Buscema's comic book artwork. He was one of the all time great superhero and adventure artists.

[Aurelius]

Wow, thanks for the thoughtful reply. If you have time, what about Joe Kubert? You went to his school. What are your thoughts on his artwork? Did he ever teach a class you were in?

And, if I may, have you ever done a tutorial on clothing? I know Burn Hogarth had a book a long time ago, I just don't know how good it was.

Thanks again.

[Bruce Lee]

Wow, thanks for the thoughtful reply. If you have time, what about Joe Kubert? You went to his school. What are your thoughts on his artwork? Did he ever teach a class you were in?

Joe Kubert is an amazing artist. His work is very organic and always seems to work well with characters like Tarzan, Sgt Rock, Enemy Ace, and even superhero characters like Hawkman, a character that Joe defined. Joe is unique in the comic business. He's done it all. He started out erasing pages as a kid (he was eleven I believe) at Eisner's studio. In an age when most comic artists were doing pencils only, Joe was often providing pencils and inks. He was an editor and even an Editor In Chief at DC Comics. Most artists in the business of comics have experienced peaks and valleys in their career, but I think that Joe must have had only peaks. He's done everything there is to do at this point, and he's a master of his craft.

I wasn't in Joe Kubert's class. He is a third year instructor, and I only went the first two years at JKS. Joe did give me some invaluable advice when I was a student though. I had sent some samples out to various comic companies during my first year, and I actually heard back from one company: Millennium Comics, who were putting out a CALL OF CTHULHU comic. I received a call from Millennium about drawing an issue of that book, and I was naturally overjoyed. The problem was that I was still in school, and I wasn't going to have time to do both the school's homework assignments and the comic book work, so I talked with Joe about the situation. Joe recommend that I stay in school. He pointed out that I had things I needed to learn before going pro, and he was quick to mention that he'd seen a lot of small comic companies come and go. Many go up in smoke overnight. I stayed in school and declined the job, and I was sulking for a while, but later in my first year at the school I read that Millennium Comics had gone out of business. Joe was right, and I'd made the right choice staying in school.


And, if I may, have you ever done a tutorial on clothing? I know Burn Hogarth had a book a long time ago, I just don't know how good it was.

Thanks again.

No I haven't. Mostly because I could never do a tutorial that would cover enough information to satisfy anyone--myself included. The best I can offer you right now are these pages from an old art book that's no longer in print. They do cover several good examples of wrinkles and drapery folds:

http://www.lostonwallace.com/folds1.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/folds2.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/folds3.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/folds4.jpg

[Aurelius]

Hey thanks again for the thoughtful reply. You mentioned:


When Ditko left Spidey, Romita was the right guy to take over. The book was different after Ditko, but in my mind it wasn't necessarily different in a negative way. Spider-Man as a title and as a character evolved. Romita is largely responsible for defining the look of the modern Spidey that we love today, and his son continues the evolution.

I like Ditko, but he always drew stiff in my opinion. He had a flatness that I could never shake off. And Romita seemed just more fluid. If no one will ask any more questions, I have another.
I was looking over some old Jack Kirby drawings and then I saw a picture of him and I am not sure if I am seeing right.
Do the faces he draws end up looking like his own real face? Am I just seeing things?

[Bruce Lee]

Hey thanks again for the thoughtful reply. You mentioned:


I like Ditko, but he always drew stiff in my opinion. He had a flatness that I could never shake off. And Romita seemed just more fluid. If no one will ask any more questions, I have another.
I was looking over some old Jack Kirby drawings and then I saw a picture of him and I am not sure if I am seeing right.
Do the faces he draws end up looking like his own real face? Am I just seeing things?

When Ditko was on, he was fantastic. Most of the time his artwork was energetic and dimensional. He could even produce realistic figure work if he wanted. The work that he did for Warren Publishing on stories for EERIE MAGAZINE and CREEPY MAGAZINE were amazing. His an example of some of his beautiful wash work. The halftones he got with ink still astound me:

http://www.lostonwallace.com/ditkofly.jpg

As far as Kirby drawing himself as his characters, I think all artists do that to some extent. Kirby often said in interviews that he drew himself as his characters. Characters like Ben Grimm and the Hulk, Reed Richards, etc-- all have some physical resemblance to Jack Kirby. You'll often see it in the eyebrows or in the hair, if you look carefully. Ditko was guilty of the same thing. Here's an image of Steve Ditko from his high school yearbook compared to his Peter Parker. I think you'll see that Peter Parker looks an awful lot like Steve as a teenager:

http://www.lostonwallace.com/ditko.jpg

Alex Ross often uses himself as a model for heroes like Batman. Frazetta's male heroes often looked like himself too. This isn't something that's unique in comic artists or in artists in general. To some extent, we all do it.

[CoreyPledger]

Hey Loston

Long time no see. I've got a quick question, provided you have the time :)

See, I drew a character with 4 arms. Now, my anatomy is improving but I'm still trying to get the shoulders right. But my question has nothing to do with that. I want to take my character and do different age shots, but when I try to draw a child-version of one of my characters, it turns out looking like my character as a midget or like someone else with the same hair.

Any tips on aging you'd care to share?

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston

Long time no see. I've got a quick question, provided you have the time :)

See, I drew a character with 4 arms. Now, my anatomy is improving but I'm still trying to get the shoulders right. But my question has nothing to do with that. I want to take my character and do different age shots, but when I try to draw a child-version of one of my characters, it turns out looking like my character as a midget or like someone else with the same hair.

Any tips on aging you'd care to share?

Your problem in regards to drawing children is fairly common. Many artists struggle with that. The secret is in understanding how children's anatomy and facial features differ from those of adults. If you observe a photo of yourself as a kid in elementary school and compare that to what you look like now, I'm sure you'll be able to find a number of proportional differences in your own facial characteristics.

Here's a picture of child actor Bill Mumy as he looked who played Will Robinson on the tv series LOST IN SPACE. Below that is a picture of Bill Mumy as an adult. Notice how his face has changed in terms of proportion:

http://www.beatmag.net/vintage/issue21/features/images/mumy1.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tmz.com/media/2009/01/0123_bill_mumy_memba_reveal.jpg

Here are a few points to remember from Jack Hamm in regards to drawing children's heads that might prove helpful to you:

- The face is smaller in proportion to the rest of the head
- The back of the head sticks out farther and the neck is smaller
- Usually the ear is larger proportionately than the rest of the features
- The iris (color part) of the eye approaches adult size and in its small setting is nearly fully exposed
- The eyes appear to a little wider apart in very small children
- Eye lashes appear longer and the eyebrows are much thinner
- Early nose is usually upturned; center septum is flatter in babies
- The upper lip protrudes at first; mouth has more indention at corners
-The chin is less prominent and recedes
- Early cheeks are more rounded

Hope that helps a little.

[CoreyPledger]

Your problem in regards to drawing children is fairly common. Many artists struggle with that. The secret is in understanding how children's anatomy and facial features differ from those of adults. If you observe a photo of yourself as a kid in elementary school and compare that to what you look like now, I'm sure you'll be able to find a number of proportional differences in your own facial characteristics.

Here's a picture of child actor Bill Mumy as he looked who played Will Robinson on the tv series LOST IN SPACE. Below that is a picture of Bill Mumy as an adult. Notice how his face has changed in terms of proportion:

http://www.beatmag.net/vintage/issue21/features/images/mumy1.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tmz.com/media/2009/01/0123_bill_mumy_memba_reveal.jpg

Here are a few points to remember from Jack Hamm in regards to drawing children's heads that might prove helpful to you:

- The face is smaller in proportion to the rest of the head
- The back of the head sticks out farther and the neck is smaller
- Usually the ear is larger proportionately than the rest of the features
- The iris (color part) of the eye approaches adult size and in its small setting is nearly fully exposed
- The eyes appear to a little wider apart in very small children
- Eye lashes appear longer and the eyebrows are much thinner
- Early nose is usually upturned; center septum is flatter in babies
- The upper lip protrudes at first; mouth has more indention at corners
-The chin is less prominent and recedes
- Early cheeks are more rounded

Hope that helps a little.

I could hug you.

The idea to get 2 pictures of myself at different ages was perfect, it helped a lot. I've been flipping through that Jack Hamm book you suggested to me a while back, Cartooning the Head and Figure, but I haven't had the time to sit and read it all yet.

Thanks a lot Loston!

[Bruce Lee]

I could hug you.

The idea to get 2 pictures of myself at different ages was perfect, it helped a lot. I've been flipping through that Jack Hamm book you suggested to me a while back, Cartooning the Head and Figure, but I haven't had the time to sit and read it all yet.

Thanks a lot Loston!

No problem, man. DRAWING THE HEAD & FIGURE is an excellent book, so read through it a few times. You should get a lot of it.

Loston

[Lonrott]

I know you write comic book scripts and I have seen one of your scripts drawn. My question(s) is since you are an artist and a writer, how do you lay out a page? As a writer I want to write a page that is dynamic as possible with clean story telling. When you write a script, how do you try to lay out the page so it isn't this static 4-6 panel page after page. And as far as layouts are concerned, when do you think a vertical panel is appropriate (meaning one that goes from the top of the panel to the bottom or half the page)? How about circular panels?

[Bruce Lee]

I know you write comic book scripts and I have seen one of your scripts drawn. My question(s) is since you are an artist and a writer, how do you lay out a page? As a writer I want to write a page that is dynamic as possible with clean story telling. When you write a script, how do you try to lay out the page so it isn't this static 4-6 panel page after page. And as far as layouts are concerned, when do you think a vertical panel is appropriate (meaning one that goes from the top of the panel to the bottom or half the page)? How about circular panels?

Well, I actually don't consider my self to be much of a writer, to be honest. I'm an artist who understands the mechanics of script writing, and as an artist, I tend to see things visually. Therefore it's easy for me to see the page layout as I'm writing out a script. I sometimes find that I have to restrain myself a little in an effort to avoid dictating panel layouts to other artists. I think extra description is generally a great idea, but I always try to offer friendly suggestions instead of absolute demands when writing a script. Some information is crucial for the sake of the story though, and that can't be avoided. It is what it is.

As an artist, I feel like I'm qualified to suggest panel layouts, but I do believe that that sort of thing is primarily the job of the artist drawing the comic, and a writer should allow the artist to make as many of the artistic decisions as possible. If I wanted to draw the comic myself, I could, but that doesn't mean I should force my will on the artist I'm working with. They deserve to be respected for their abilities as an artist, and I don't think demanding that they use a circle panel or a long vertical panel is the right thing for me to do, most of the time. I'm not drawing it--I'm writing it, after all. It's good to show a little faith in your artist, giving them a chance to do their own magic.

I really think it's to every writer's advantage to get to know the artist they're working with. I do realize that it's not always possible to do that, but if you can it's to your advantage. Learning what the strengths and weaknesses of your artistic partner in crime is important. For instance, if I was working with an artist who's new to the game, I might be inclined to give more art direction in the panel descriptions. I might go so far as to suggest panel layouts like this:

Panel 2: This panel should be the largest panel on the page for dramatic effect. As it is an action panel, I recommend using dramatic foreshortening on the figures to add extra impact to the scene. Since this scene takes place at night, dramatic lighting might also be in order, but if you add shadows, make sure that the storytelling remains clear. Wally Wood-type double lighting might work just fine, but no silhouette lighting, please! Show the readers the goods.

The goons are still on the theater stage. The largest of the two hoodlums is carrying the strong box filled with the bank notes, and the two are about to make their exit, but they're too late!

Batman, with a look of determination on his face, swings in via his Batline from the left side of the panel and delivers a massive drop kick to the largest of the Joker's goons. Batman's kick should be depicted as landing solid, causing the goon to lose balance in a backwards tumble. As a consequence of this, the bulkiest goon will be dropping the
metal strongbox he was carrying on the previous page, so you should show the goon losing his grip on the box. The Joker's other goon should be seen in the background with a stunned look on his face. These thugs obviously weren't bargaining on Batman showing up!

Okay. That description above is very detailed. I'm asking for action and a lot of specific things in one panel, making suggestions on panel size, layout, lighting, etc. All of that written to serve as a visual guide for a novice artist who might could use a little visual direction. I'm providing lots of information to help the artist set the stage. I'm trying not to dictate, but I am freely making lots of suggestions that I deem to be beneficial.

In contrast, I might write the description differently if I knew the artist's work, and his strengths. For instance, if I were writing this scene for my friend, Jeremy Dale, who is already an experienced sequential storyteller, I might be less inclined to do the "hedge-betting" sort of script. The panel description would probably be a little less formal, and I might just leave out the suggestions in regards to lighting, foreshortening, and panel size requests. I would trust that he would know to do these things on his own. He might have his own way of laying out the action, and I wouldn't need to draw him a map. Giving him a little breathing room to make some of his own choices might actually benefit the comic's storytelling, so there's no need to write a script that is too rigid. Sometimes it's good to be flexible and trust your artist to do their thing. Most of the time, that will garner better results all around. Being an artist myself, my first inclination is to call the shots, but that's where a restraint is likely needed.

It's good to know who you're working with, because some artists would prefer a lot of description and dictation, and others won't. I feel like there should always be some room in the script for some compromise. Sometimes a story might not allow much wiggle room for an artist, but there might often be opportunities to give an artist a chance to have a little fun on their own. The flip side for an artist is to realize that his job is to make the script work without cutting too many corners. Success comes from working hard to achieve your goals, so skimping on the details won't benefit the story in the long run. Follow the script as closely as you can, and try to make it all work. If you have a better idea, contact the script writer and talk things over. Communication can make good things happen on a comic page.

Hope that gives you some insight, Lonrott.

[Ugga Bugga]

Bill Mumy????

[Lonrott]

It's good to know who you're working with, because some artists would prefer a lot of description and dictation, and others won't. I feel like there should always be some room in the script for some compromise. Sometimes a story might not allow much wiggle room for an artist, but there might often be opportunities to give an artist a chance to have a little fun on their own. The flip side for an artist is to realize that his job is to make the script work without cutting too many corners. Success comes from working hard to achieve your goals, so skimping on the details won't benefit the story in the long run. Follow the script as closely as you can, and try to make it all work. If you have a better idea, contact the script writer and talk things over. Communication can make good things happen on a comic page.

Hope that gives you some insight, Lonrott.

It does and thank you for the thoughtful response. Currently I am not working with an artist and just working on scripts. I would like to work on some comics projects but can't seem to get anything going. Are there any books that help in scripting? I don't mean how to write comic book, books. Are there any comics that have great layouts you recommend?

[Bruce Lee]

It does and thank you for the thoughtful response. Currently I am not working with an artist and just working on scripts. I would like to work on some comics projects but can't seem to get anything going. Are there any books that help in scripting? I don't mean how to write comic book, books. Are there any comics that have great layouts you recommend?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for, Lonrott. Could you please reiterate the question?

Thanks,
Loston

[Lonrott]

Sorry for the miss communication. I like your advice and recommendation. I agree that not all artists want direction or need it. From my end, I'd like to better visualize pages. Have better layouts in a sense. In theory, my question is how do I visualize a page better. I thought the only way to do that would be to look at some artists who are the masters of draftsmanship. So, my question was...are there any artist that inspire you in their layouts and you can recommend? I figured at the least in order to make it easier on artists, a writer should be able to visualize a page.

[Bruce Lee]

Sorry for the miss communication. I like your advice and recommendation. I agree that not all artists want direction or need it. From my end, I'd like to better visualize pages. Have better layouts in a sense. In theory, my question is how do I visualize a page better. I thought the only way to do that would be to look at some artists who are the masters of draftsmanship. So, my question was...are there any artist that inspire you in their layouts and you can recommend? I figured at the least in order to make it easier on artists, a writer should be able to visualize a page.

Ah. I thought you might be asking me that, but I wasn't sure, so let me jump right in and say that there are many artists whose page layouts inspire me.

Some of the best layout guys in the business would include guys like Alex Toth, Will Eisner, Jack Kirby, Gene Colan and Gil Kane. I could literally name hundreds of artists that I would consider to be masters of page design, layout, and dynamic storytelling. John Buscema, Steve Ditko, Berni Wrightson, Neal Adams, Wally Wood, Mike Mignola, Herge, Winsor McKay, Alex Raymond, Mark Schultz---there's just too many to list.

Check out these breakdown pages that Gil Kane did on an issue of Spider-Man back in the day. You'll notice how great all the figure work is on each page. In the action scenes, bodies are dynamic and are drawn in motion. The body language is always right on the money to convey the impact of the action. Gil Kane was not afraid to use POV shots to ratchet up the storytelling. These interesting camera angles mixed well with his amazing skills at drawing foreshortened figures to create some very exciting page layouts.

Check out the way Spidey delivers the swinging kick to the bad guy in the first panel of the page below. Notice how strong the composition is in that panel. It really has some impact because it actually goes AGAINST the flow of your eye movement. Spidey leaps and kicks from the right side of the panel and his body forms a strong diagonal that leans to wards the right. In contrast the bad guy's body is falling backwards, forming a diagonal on the left side of the panel as he reels from Spidey's kick. Traditional wisdom in regards to page layouts is that you should always keep keep the flow of a page moving left to right. Most of the time, I'd say that's the smart way to do panel layouts on a page, but in the first panel Kane goes against that wisdom, and I think this page is so much the better for him doing just that. By having Spider-Man attacking from the right side of the panel instead of from the left, Kane has created extra tension in this shot. He's deliberately made the viewer a little uncomfortable by going against the flow. This extra visual tension translates to visual impact. The calm left to right flow has been interrupted, and Spidey's kick just seems that much more powerful for it. Readers are forced to stop and say, "woah" when they see a panel like that. Kane's against the grain layout ratchets up the intensity.

In panel two Kane again goes against conventional left to right flow as the villain crashes into J.J. Jameson. The action stems from the right once again. It was important to show the power of Spidey's kick in panel one, and the aftermath of the action in panel two, so Gil Kane called upon his abilities to foreshorten figures, his sense of panel composition and decided to go against page flow to make these two panels on the page stand out from the rest. Probably because was important that the reader visually understand that Spidey caused J.J. to get clobbered during the fight. Notice once those major storytelling points have been made, Kane falls back into the conventional left to right panel flow in the remaining panels.

In the last panel on the page, you'll notice that Kane moves the camera into a tight close-up shot of the struggling figures, which produces another bit of unrest for viewers. It's sort of an uncomfortable and claustrophobic panel because of the zoom-in. That feeling of claustrophobia makes the readers a little uncomfortable. They now feel a little more worried about Spidey's situation. Gil is manipulating the readers feelings through the power of his layout, adding intensity and impact to the storytelling by thinking outside of the box. He was very gifted at breaking the "rules" and making it all work to his advantage.
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil2.jpg

Here are some more Gil Kane Spider-Man breakdowns for you to enjoy at your leisure. They aren't necessary pages that are in any kind of order, but pay attention to the strength of the dynamic figures, panel compositions, and the sense of movement that Kane utilized throughout. Kane's panels almost always interesting to look at, and were rarely ever dull. He was an exciting storyteller with guts.

http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil1.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil3.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil4.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil5.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil6.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil7.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil8.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil9.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil10.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil11.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil12.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil13.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil14.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil15.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil16.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil19.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil20.jpg

Every single time I look at the action on this page I'm in awe of the great figure work. It's pretty intense:
http://www.lostonwallace.com/gil21.jpg

For those people who aren't aware just how CRAZY-GOOD Alex Toth's sequential storytelling was, just check out this awesome BLACK CANARY story he did in the early '70s. It's ballsy. It's visually interesting, and you'll marvel at how minimalistic some of the panels are, and at how much impact Toth could get inside of a panel box. Toth didn't need to resort to drawing splashy pages with 1-3 panels to wow his readers. He did that with pacing, clarity and the strength of his drawing. His sense of composition, design and ability to show readers only what is necessary has always floored me. He was a true sequential art innovator:
http://grantbridgestreet.blogspot.com/2008/08/denny-oneil-and-alex-toth-black-canary.html


Gene Colan was one of my favorite sequential artists. I don't think he was capable of drawing anything but great page layouts. In the hands of Gene Colan, even the most mundane talking heads page would become a visual treat to look at. I recommend that you seek out examples of his work on TOMB OF DRACULA, BATMAN, DETECTIVE COMICS, WONDER WOMAN, NIGHT FORCE, DAREDEVIL, etc. Amazing stuff.

Hope all this has been helpful to you.

Loston

[Ian Miller]

Hey Loston, I'm glad you posted that Black Canary story! I've seen bits and pieces of it, but never the full story. I've known of Toth for a few years now, but I've only seriously appreciated his work for about a year. I've heard from a lot of people that his work is very difficult to understand at first. On the surface it looks cartoony and, as Image fans would point out, there aren't enough lines! But it wasn't until after I read Toth's critique of Steve Rude's Johnny Quest pages that everything just sort of clicked. Not just about Toth, but about comics in general.

Sure, Toth's work was simple and had a sort of cartoony quality to it, but I soon realized that his work had this naturalism to it that I have never seen anyone else able to accomplish. Everything felt so natural that it was evident that he did an incredible amount of research to make sure his characters and settings felt real. I've heard that he was a perfectionist, and was known to finish a page, then rip it up if it wasn't to his standards or if he "Drew too much". He was never satisfied with his work, and even after 50+ years in comics he was always striving to improve.

And his work was so SIMPLE! With just a few lines he could draw the best face ever, something that most artists drawing a hundred lines couldn't even do! His main focus wasn't on drawing pretty pictures with tons of cross-hatching, it was to tell the best story he could.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with Sidebar Nation, but it's a podcast dealing with comic ART, with every episode featuring an interview with an artist. A few months ago they did a tribute to Alex Toth featuring interviews with a ton of artists such Klaus Janson, Tim Sale, Mark Chiarello, John Paul Leon, and many more. It's definitely worth a listen, and it describes his work and artistic ideals in more detail.

Part 1: http://media.libsyn.com/media/sidebar/SiDEBAR_Ep_109.mp3

Part 2: http://media.libsyn.com/media/sidebar/SiDEBAR_Ep_110.mp3

[Lonrott]

Wow, thanks for the in depth response (as usual). It has been really helpful and I will come back to it again and again it seems like. Again, I appreciate the effort you took.

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston, I'm glad you posted that Black Canary story! I've seen bits and pieces of it, but never the full story.

That story was originally printed as a two part back-up story in ADVENTURE COMICS # 418 and 419 back in 1972. Back then ADVENTURE COMICS was an anthology book featuring a lot of second and third tier DC heroes who didn't have their own title. At that time SUPERGIRL ran as their feature story, and characters like Black Canary, Phantom Stranger, The Enchantress and Doctor Mid-Nite appeared in back-ups. I feel fortunate to actually have both of the issues that feature this Toth Black Canary story, and I did buy them just because of the BLACK CANARY story that Toth drew. That story is an amazing example of comic book storytelling! I acquired those issues only recently, but I'm extremely that glad I made the purchases. One of the SUPERGIRL stories was pencilled by Jose Delbo (with inks by Bob Oksner). Jose was one of my favorite instructors that I had at the JOE KUBERT SCHOOL, so it was an extra treat to see his work on SUPERGIRL! The team-up of Delbo and Oksner produced one of the prettiest versions of Supergirl I've ever seen in print!


I've known of Toth for a few years now, but I've only seriously appreciated his work for about a year. I've heard from a lot of people that his work is very difficult to understand at first. On the surface it looks cartoony and, as Image fans would point out, there aren't enough lines! But it wasn't until after I read Toth's critique of Steve Rude's Johnny Quest pages that everything just sort of clicked. Not just about Toth, but about comics in general.

Toth put the story first. He wasn't trying to dazzle people by creating pin-up poster art with big splashy figures. He was concerned about creating artwork that told a cohesive story with clarity. His artwork was always exciting without having to resort to extraneous rendering to pull things through. He provided all the visual information that was necessary, and it often appeared as if there wasn't a single line wasted anywhere. It's clear that he thought about each and every panel he drew, and where his concerns were. Story and clarity first and foremost. He was a storyteller through and through.


Sure, Toth's work was simple and had a sort of cartoony quality to it, but I soon realized that his work had this naturalism to it that I have never seen anyone else able to accomplish. Everything felt so natural that it was evident that he did an incredible amount of research to make sure his characters and settings felt real. I've heard that he was a perfectionist, and was known to finish a page, then rip it up if it wasn't to his standards or if he "Drew too much". He was never satisfied with his work, and even after 50+ years in comics he was always striving to improve.

"Genius" is a word that gets thrown around a lot in regards to accomplished comic artists. Toth probably deserves that title more than most. Kirby was an innovator. Eisner was an innovator. Toth was an innovator. Great artists come along every so often, but true innovators are a very rare breed. Comic book innovators changed the medium. They altered the way that artists told stories panel-to-panel. Toth's influence on the best of the best is undeniable.


And his work was so SIMPLE! With just a few lines he could draw the best face ever, something that most artists drawing a hundred lines couldn't even do! His main focus wasn't on drawing pretty pictures with tons of cross-hatching, it was to tell the best story he could.

I don't know that I'd say that it was "simple". I'd say that it was perfectly balanced. Just enough, never too much, and almost always on the mark. His execution was always excellent, because he was such a perfectionist. I think all artists who truly want to excel at what they do want to do things better each time they draw. There's a certain bit of insanity that comes from being an artist. There's a need to create things, and an artist is compelled to find an outlet to make that happen. The best artists always want to create better things each time, and strive to improve on what they've done before. Many artists are never satisfied with their own work because they do strive towards perfection.


I'm not sure if you're familiar with Sidebar Nation, but it's a podcast dealing with comic ART, with every episode featuring an interview with an artist. A few months ago they did a tribute to Alex Toth featuring interviews with a ton of artists such Klaus Janson, Tim Sale, Mark Chiarello, John Paul Leon, and many more. It's definitely worth a listen, and it describes his work and artistic ideals in more detail.

Thanks very much for that, Ian, but I've actually already heard those. I've had Sidebar Nation as one of my favorite bookmarks for a few years now. I love listening to their podcasts. The 2 part Mark Schultz interview is one that I really enjoyed. I liked the Wrightson interview also. Good stuff!

Thanks for chiming in, man! I hope you'll pop in and say howdy on this board more often. It's always great to hear from you, Ian!

Loston

[Bruce Lee]

Wow, thanks for the in depth response (as usual). It has been really helpful and I will come back to it again and again it seems like. Again, I appreciate the effort you took.

No problem at all, Lonrott. I'm happy to help! Feel free to ask ol' Dr. Stupid Jr a question anytime. :)

[CoreyPledger]

Hey Loston
Just popping in as per usual.

I'm going to start college soon, and I plan to take some life drawing classes, since everyone on this board preaches life drawing as the key to cartooning.

As soon as I get another job (starving artists ftw) I'm going to be getting a drawing table, and I wondered if there's anything in particular I needed besides four legs and an adjustable top that you might suggest.

Other than that man, I've been loving the work you've posted and I can't wait to see more.

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston
Just popping in as per usual.

I'm going to start college soon, and I plan to take some life drawing classes, since everyone on this board preaches life drawing as the key to cartooning.

As soon as I get another job (starving artists ftw) I'm going to be getting a drawing table, and I wondered if there's anything in particular I needed besides four legs and an adjustable top that you might suggest.

Other than that man, I've been loving the work you've posted and I can't wait to see more.

Corey,

Man, I'm happy to hear you're going to take some life drawing courses, because I think you're really going to enjoy that. I think the life drawing classes I had at Kubert School really helped me figure out human anatomy, foreshortening, body proportions, lighting, as well as things like body language, which I had always struggled with beforehand. I think you'll learn a lot, and have a blast as you watch your art get better and better! :)

As far as a drawing table goes, just make sure that it can be tilted at an angle around 45-60 degrees so that you can see your page clearly, and so that you won't have to hunch your back over too much when you draw. Also make sure that you have a large enough surface to draw on. The smoother the surface the better. Make sure you have some decent desk lamps too, because good lighting is extremely important to have when you're drawing for hours. An overhead light in the room won't cut it. You will also need a comfortable chair of some sort with good back support. Office chairs will work fine, but make sure that they're comfortable to sit in, are sturdy, and that the back rest is adequate. A good chair is a MUST. Protect you back!

They make trays that can be attached to art desks, and I recommend getting one. The trays are useful for holding art equipment/supplies like pencils, electric erasers, erasers, x-acto blades, pens, etc. They're very convenient to have when drawing at a desk. Another thing you might want to get is a small taboret to put next to your desk. They make handy art supply cabinets/drawers for equipment. I keep inks, white out, dyes, templates, Pitt pens, pencils, brushes and everything else in mine. If you prefer wooden pencils to mechanical pencils and lead holders (as I do) you should also think about getting a good electric pencil sharpener also.

Here's an image taken of my art desk. This was at my old studio at my old apartment, but you can clearly see how I have my desk set up with a tray attached. You can also see my two desk lamps, my taboret/cabinet and my comfy chair. Notice also that there's a light directly overhead on the ceiling, and that the desk was positioned close to a window to also allow in some natural light:

http://www.lostonwallace.com/studio4.jpg

You might want to look around online to buy your table. Dickblick.com has some decent tables, etc that seem to be affordable:
http://www.dickblick.com/categories/tables/

I liked the looks of this:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/studio-designs-4-piece-creativity-center/

And this:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/alvin-vista-combo-kit/

This also seemed cool:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/studio-designs-vision-craft-station/

On Amazon.com, this looks pretty tempting:
http://www.amazon.com/Vision-Craft-Station-Silver-Glass/dp/B002UQ4ZI0/ref=sr_1_34?ie=UTF8&s=furniture&qid=1273632436&sr=1-34

...and if there really is a Santa Clause, I won't to drop the hint that I could really appreciate owning this bad boy:
http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Drafting-Table-72-x36/dp/B002GON7W6/ref=pd_sbs_op_4

Hope that helps you, man. :)

[Lonrott]

Hello Bruce, just wanted to let you know I used one of those links with an artist I am working with. Thanks again.

[Ian Miller]

Hey Loston, I have a question for you about selling original pages, as I'm sure you've done many times before. I'm working on a book now and when I'm done I was thinking of trying to sell the original pages in order to make a little bit of extra income. As an unknown artist, I'm sure that people wouldn't go out and actively search for my original art, and there's a good chance that none of it could sell. It doesn't hurt to try, but would I have to establish myself first before I would get any bites on the original art? Also, if you have any stories about buying or collecting original art I'd like to hear them (If you couldn't tell I'm very interested in original comic art, and I bought my first original page a few months ago).

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston, I have a question for you about selling original pages, as I'm sure you've done many times before. I'm working on a book now and when I'm done I was thinking of trying to sell the original pages in order to make a little bit of extra income. As an unknown artist, I'm sure that people wouldn't go out and actively search for my original art, and there's a good chance that none of it could sell. It doesn't hurt to try, but would I have to establish myself first before I would get any bites on the original art? Also, if you have any stories about buying or collecting original art I'd like to hear them (If you couldn't tell I'm very interested in original comic art, and I bought my first original page a few months ago).

Ian,

You don't have to be a big name in the business to sell your original artwork. There are a lot of people who buy and collect original comic pages, illustration originals, etc. You might want to consider the following options:

You might first try to approach an original art representative like Albert Moy (www.albertmoy.com) to see if he might be interested in representing your work. Albert represents for many comic artists, including Bruce Timm, Darwyn Cooke, Jim Lee, Erik Larsen and John Cassaday. He's not the only comic book rep on the web though, so I recommend that you search around and seek a few out.

There is also selling your own original artwork on Ebay. I've done this for several years, and I've done pretty well at it. It hasn't hurt that I have done artwork for a lot of published licensing projects that feature popular comic characters like BATMAN, SUPERMAN, and SPIDER-MAN, but I have sold original comic pages from CAVEWOMAN and ELVIRA MISTRESS OF THE DARK and I've made some decent scratch. Ebay does have certain copyright rules though, that you need to check into. I sell all my artwork as ORIGINAL PUBLISHED ART, which gives me a distinction from "fan art", which I've seen removed from Ebay. Since I pretty much just sell the originals to the work I've done for printed books, I haven't had much in the way of troubles with that. Just keep your prices realistic. Don't sell too low, and don't expect too much. Keep it reasonable, and you might be able to make some sells. I do know that it's gotten tougher to sell things on Ebay than it once was. Batman stuff will always sell, I reckon, but since the economy tanked a while back, it's not so easy. If you're work's good, and your price is fair, you probably will have a decent chance though. Worth thinking about anyway.

You might also seek out a few websites that sell original comic art, etc. Chances are, they're also buyers of original art. Contact them and see if they might be interested in buying pages.

You can always put your original artwork up for sale on your own website, and sell via PAYPAL. A lot of creators do this. It may take a while to get some sales, but you can always advertise that you're selling art on message boards and other places on the web. You sometimes have to do a little hustling to get the ball rolling, but it's the only way to find out what the market is like.

As far as buying pages goes, I recommend that you buy pages because you enjoy owning/displaying the actual original artwork. I don't recommend buying pages for the sake of resale value, unless you're one of those guys who likes to wheel and deal. I collect original pages from artists I admire like Don Newton, John Buscema, Darwyn Cooke, Brian Bolland, Mark Schultz, Michael Lark, etc. As a pro, I study these works at great lengths. You can learn a lot about the artists' process from owning an original page. As a fan, I love to own the actual original page. There's nothing quite like owning an original comic page. There's the artwork itself to enjoy, the story balloons ( I don't usually buy pages that don't have balloons on them), and the wonderful inking to marvel at. I own one single Conan page where the script was taken from Robert E. Howard's original story, which was adapted by Roy Thomas. It was drawn by John Buscema and inked by Ernie Chan. It has Chan's signature on the page (I bought it from Ernie). The hand lettering is beautiful too. I own the original comic it came from, and I have fond memories of reading that comic as a kid. Howard dialogue, Vintage Buscema pencils & Chan inks from 1980, and classic hand lettering ( can't recall who lettered that story). What a treasure! I display it on a wall in my studio, because looking at it is inspiring. There are three other Buscema pages next to it--two more Conan pages, and an Avengers page. Everything in my personal collection of original art is a page that I personally enjoy, that I'm inspired by, and I'm honored to possess. It's all choice. I don't buy every page that shows up for sale--I wait to buy pages that are truly worth owning. I may buy 2 pages in one month, or maybe one a year, but I buy wisely. I buy pages I really desire to own. I don't buy a page just because John Buscema drew it. I buy a quality Buscema page. If you're going to spend some dough on an original, buy something worth a damn. That's my motto. ;)

[Ian Miller]

Thanks a ton for the info, Loston! I think at first I'll try the EBay route. Pricing artwork is such an abstract concept that I'd rather let the people decide, so to speak, and bid as they see fit. Then maybe if I get a median price range I can go from there and sell it outside of EBay.

I worked in a commercial art gallery in Manhattan for a year and a half and one of the most difficult parts of the job was working with artists to find a suitable price for their work. You have to factor in costs of materials, time and effort spent on it, and also the costs of shipping the work and preparing it for hanging. However, it also has to be reasonably priced so that it won't scare away potential buyers. Many of these artists were virtually unknown in New York, but since they were showing in NYC they decided to jack up the prices of their paintings. It got to the point where artists would try to sell, say, a small landscape for $9,000. And of course we'd have to work with them to bring the prices down because no one would be willing to pay that much for a piece from an unknown artist. Likewise, a comic art collector may be willing to spend $9,000 on a Jim Lee cover, but wouldn't even spent more than a few hundred on a new guy's work. Price a painting/page/drawing too high and, if it does sell, you'd make a ton of money. But there's also the chance it would never sell, and it's better to make a little bit of money than to make no money at all.

I'm familiar with Albert Moy's site, I used to browse through it daily if I had time to kill at the gallery. From what I saw, though, he works with big-name artists. Nowadays I check out original art on Comicartfans.com, which has links to EBay auctions and also user pages where original art can be sold. It's got tons and tons of artists, and I was thinking of looking in to it to try and get my pages on there.

[CoreyPledger]

Corey,

Man, I'm happy to hear you're going to take some life drawing courses, because I think you're really going to enjoy that. I think the life drawing classes I had at Kubert School really helped me figure out human anatomy, foreshortening, body proportions, lighting, as well as things like body language, which I had always struggled with beforehand. I think you'll learn a lot, and have a blast as you watch your art get better and better! :)

As far as a drawing table goes, just make sure that it can be tilted at an angle around 45-60 degrees so that you can see your page clearly, and so that you won't have to hunch your back over too much when you draw. Also make sure that you have a large enough surface to draw on. The smoother the surface the better. Make sure you have some decent desk lamps too, because good lighting is extremely important to have when you're drawing for hours. An overhead light in the room won't cut it. You will also need a comfortable chair of some sort with good back support. Office chairs will work fine, but make sure that they're comfortable to sit in, are sturdy, and that the back rest is adequate. A good chair is a MUST. Protect you back!

They make trays that can be attached to art desks, and I recommend getting one. The trays are useful for holding art equipment/supplies like pencils, electric erasers, erasers, x-acto blades, pens, etc. They're very convenient to have when drawing at a desk. Another thing you might want to get is a small taboret to put next to your desk. They make handy art supply cabinets/drawers for equipment. I keep inks, white out, dyes, templates, Pitt pens, pencils, brushes and everything else in mine. If you prefer wooden pencils to mechanical pencils and lead holders (as I do) you should also think about getting a good electric pencil sharpener also.

Here's an image taken of my art desk. This was at my old studio at my old apartment, but you can clearly see how I have my desk set up with a tray attached. You can also see my two desk lamps, my taboret/cabinet and my comfy chair. Notice also that there's a light directly overhead on the ceiling, and that the desk was positioned close to a window to also allow in some natural light:

http://www.lostonwallace.com/studio4.jpg

You might want to look around online to buy your table. Dickblick.com has some decent tables, etc that seem to be affordable:
http://www.dickblick.com/categories/tables/

I liked the looks of this:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/studio-designs-4-piece-creativity-center/

And this:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/alvin-vista-combo-kit/

This also seemed cool:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/studio-designs-vision-craft-station/

On Amazon.com, this looks pretty tempting:
http://www.amazon.com/Vision-Craft-Station-Silver-Glass/dp/B002UQ4ZI0/ref=sr_1_34?ie=UTF8&s=furniture&qid=1273632436&sr=1-34

...and if there really is a Santa Clause, I won't to drop the hint that I could really appreciate owning this bad boy:
http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Drafting-Table-72-x36/dp/B002GON7W6/ref=pd_sbs_op_4

Hope that helps you, man. :)

Took my a while to reply but all of those looked amazing, I REALLY liked the Freedom one (the Santa-hopeful one :D)

You are the best, man.

[Bruce Lee]

TI REALLY liked the Freedom one (the Santa-hopeful one :D)

Yeah--it's definately the grand piano of art desks!

You're welcome, Corey.

[serg]

Hello Loston. I have used your script Spider-Man: Shock Value for sequential practice.Here is the thread (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?103896-Spider-Man-Shock-Value&p=1161053) If you have time,can you give some comments on it,please.

[Bruce Lee]

Hello Loston. I have used your script Spider-Man: Shock Value for sequential practice.Here is the thread (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?103896-Spider-Man-Shock-Value&p=1161053) If you have time,can you give some comments on it,please.

I don't have a lot of time, serg, but I'll make some time for you. It might take me a couple days to provide you with a detailed critique though, so I'll most likely write as much as I can tonight, and then try to finish the critique tomorrow. No--I'm not planning on writing a book, but I will give you a panel-to-panel critique, and I'll be posting passages from the script along with my comments, so there is likely to be a decent amount of text. Hopefully I can provide you with some good advice. :)

[Ian Miller]

Hey Loston, I have a question for you I forgot to ask while we were chatting last night. What are your thoughts on drawing a page for production versus drawing a page with the mindset of having it be a finished piece of art? When you draw a page do you try and keep it as clean as possible or do you save the cleaning until after it's scanned to your computer?

For me, the story I'm working on is very text-heavy, and since I'm doing the lettering I've been cutting some corners by writing in the dialog and not drawing where I know there will be a gigantic word balloon. This helps save time and prevents me from drawing things that I know will be covered up. The actual physical art suffers, but it easily knocks an hour or 2 off a page since I have to pencil and ink less. Thoughts on this?

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston, I have a question for you I forgot to ask while we were chatting last night. What are your thoughts on drawing a page for production versus drawing a page with the mindset of having it be a finished piece of art? When you draw a page do you try and keep it as clean as possible or do you save the cleaning until after it's scanned to your computer?

For me, the story I'm working on is very text-heavy, and since I'm doing the lettering I've been cutting some corners by writing in the dialog and not drawing where I know there will be a gigantic word balloon. This helps save time and prevents me from drawing things that I know will be covered up. The actual physical art suffers, but it easily knocks an hour or 2 off a page since I have to pencil and ink less. Thoughts on this?

I find that it's always better to draw everything in the panel, because balloons might need to be shifted around or altered, so it's good not to leave unfinished areas in the panel. Usually many artistic shortcuts lead to more headaches down the road, so you're just better off biting the bullet and working through it. It's a good idea to work smart, but you need to complete the artwork in the panels. Hope that helps, man.

[Eric Henson]

Quick question: You recommended the book "The Art of Comic Book Inking" (which is excellent by the way), but do you have any great references for learning perspective/vanishing points/etc? I've have some formal art training but its all a blur to me now since the years have passed and I don't find correct perspective as easy as I used to.

Any suggestions?

[Bruce Lee]

Quick question: You recommended the book "The Art of Comic Book Inking" (which is excellent by the way), but do you have any great references for learning perspective/vanishing points/etc? I've have some formal art training but its all a blur to me now since the years have passed and I don't find correct perspective as easy as I used to.

Any suggestions?

The best book I've ever seen on the subject of perspective if Andrew Loomis' THREE DIMENSIONAL DRAWING book (1961). It is a revised edition of the SUCCESSFUL DRAWING book (1951), with 16 or so extra pages in it. Suffice to say that like all the other great Loomis books, it's out of print, but you can still find PDFs and scans of this book online. Occasionally they show up on EBay too, but usually for a hefty price. A book like THREE DIMENSIONAL DRAWING is worth its weight in gold though. It really is the best book on the subject of perspective that I have seen. It covers things like placing figures in perspective, multiple horizons, vanishing points, etc.

One of the most clearly written books on perspective is Ernest R. Norlings PERSPECTIVE MADE EASY. It is a basic fundamental sort of book on perspective, but it walks the reader through perspective extremely well. You can pick this book up on Amazon for around $9:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0486404730/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1XDW62VQ6DDDTPDSWQ23&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

David Chelsea's PERSPECTIVE! FOR COMIC BOOK ARTISTS is pretty good too. It has a bit of that Scott McCloud formula to it, but there's a lot of valuable info in it:
http://www.amazon.com/Perspective-Comic-Book-Artists-Professional/dp/0823005674

Hope that helps, Eric! :D

Loston

[paladis]

The best book I've ever seen on the subject of perspective if Andrew Loomis' THREE DIMENSIONAL DRAWING book (1961). It is a revised edition of the SUCCESSFUL DRAWING book (1951), with 16 or so extra pages in it. Suffice to say that like all the other great Loomis books, it's out of print, but you can still find PDFs and scans of this book online. Occasionally they show up on EBay too, but usually for a hefty price. A book like THREE DIMENSIONAL DRAWING is worth its weight in gold though. It really is the best book on the subject of perspective that I have seen. It covers things like placing figures in perspective, multiple horizons, vanishing points, etc.

One of the most clearly written books on perspective is Ernest R. Norlings PERSPECTIVE MADE EASY. It is a basic fundamental sort of book on perspective, but it walks the reader through perspective extremely well. You can pick this book up on Amazon for around $9:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0486404730/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1XDW62VQ6DDDTPDSWQ23&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

David Chelsea's PERSPECTIVE! FOR COMIC BOOK ARTISTS is pretty good too. It has a bit of that Scott McCloud formula to it, but there's a lot of valuable info in it:
http://www.amazon.com/Perspective-Comic-Book-Artists-Professional/dp/0823005674

Hope that helps, Eric! :D

Loston

That last one actually looks pretty good, think I might order it.

[Bruce Lee]

That last one actually looks pretty good, think I might order it.

Groovy. I wouldn't pass over the PERSPECTIVE MADE EASY book though. It's very inexpensive, and it's really comprehensive.

[Eric Henson]

The best book I've ever seen on the subject of perspective if Andrew Loomis' THREE DIMENSIONAL DRAWING book (1961). It is a revised edition of the SUCCESSFUL DRAWING book (1951), with 16 or so extra pages in it. Suffice to say that like all the other great Loomis books, it's out of print, but you can still find PDFs and scans of this book online. Occasionally they show up on EBay too, but usually for a hefty price. A book like THREE DIMENSIONAL DRAWING is worth its weight in gold though. It really is the best book on the subject of perspective that I have seen. It covers things like placing figures in perspective, multiple horizons, vanishing points, etc.

One of the most clearly written books on perspective is Ernest R. Norlings PERSPECTIVE MADE EASY. It is a basic fundamental sort of book on perspective, but it walks the reader through perspective extremely well. You can pick this book up on Amazon for around $9:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0486404730/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1XDW62VQ6DDDTPDSWQ23&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

David Chelsea's PERSPECTIVE! FOR COMIC BOOK ARTISTS is pretty good too. It has a bit of that Scott McCloud formula to it, but there's a lot of valuable info in it:
http://www.amazon.com/Perspective-Comic-Book-Artists-Professional/dp/0823005674

Hope that helps, Eric! :D

Loston

Amazing help, my friend. Thank you!

[Bruce Lee]

Amazing help, my friend. Thank you!

No problem, Eric. Glad to help, man!





Next!

[ntat]

I was hoping if you do another how-to tutorial, you might consider showing how to draw hair?

[The P.R. Man]

yeah, I suck at drawing hair. could'ja help a guy out Loston?

[Bruce Lee]

I was hoping if you do another how-to tutorial, you might consider showing how to draw hair?


yeah, I suck at drawing hair. could'ja help a guy out Loston?

I reckon I could rustle up a quick step-by-step or two featuring a few commonplace hairstyles. I'll see what I can do, guys. :)

Loston

[Bruce Lee]

Jack Hamm's book, DRAWING THE HEAD & FIGURE has some great pages on drawing hair. I doubt I could do a tutorial on hair that would be more informative than these six pages in Hamm's book. If you don't have Jack Hamm's DRAWING THE HEAD & FIGURE book, you're truly missing out!! I recommend that you pick it up immediately! I have HUNDREDS of artbooks in my studio, and the Hamm book is right up there with the Loomis volumes, and it's inexpensive! Only $10!! Buy it!! 'Nuff said!

For ntat, P.R. Man or anyone else struggling with hair, these links from Hamm's books are for you! They should help you out! :)

http://www.lostonwallace.com/hamm1.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/hamm2.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/hamm3.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/hamm4.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/hamm4.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/hamm5.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/hamm6.jpg

If this isn't enough, I'll be happy to put together a couple of step-by-steps for you guys also.

Loston

[The P.R. Man]

Hey Loston, not to keep being a pest, but what can you reccomend for drawing clouds?

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston, not to keep being a pest, but what can you reccomend for drawing clouds?

Well, I'll always recommend using reference images to help you draw anything that you are having difficulty with--even clouds. Besides that, when it comes to drawing clouds, I'll always suggest keeping things as simple as possible--especially if the clouds are merely to be used as part of a background scene, and aren't supposed to be a point of focus. If you become too involved in drawing all the little rounded shapes, etc, all that intricate detailing might actually do your drawing more harm than good, as it can steal attention away from the more important subject matters in your drawing.

It's also good to understand that there are several different types of cloud formations. Here are some of the most common:

Cirrocumulus:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Cirrocumulus_to_Altocumulus.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrocumulus_cloud

Altocumulus:
http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/images/atmosphere/clouds/wea00039_altocumulus_noaa_Ralph_Kresge.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altocumulus_cloud

Stratocumulus:
http://www.artistdaily.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/pleinair/stratocumulous.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratocumulus_cloud

Cumulus:
http://icons-ecast.wunderground.com/data/wximagenew/m/ma/8.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulus_cloud

Stratus:
http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/lemke/geog101/images/08p_stratus_noaa.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratus_cloud

Altostratus:
http://web.me.com/drsoos/iApps/cloud/files/altostratus-cloud.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altostratus_cloud

Cirrus:
http://www.alanbauer.com/images/Weather/Cirrus%20clouds-Horz.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_cloud

Cumulonimbus:
http://firmanbudi.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/cumulonimbus-cloud-akbhhf-sw.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulonimbus_cloud

When most people think of what a cloud looks like, a cumulous cloud probably comes to mind first and foremost. These clouds are usually puffy and cotton-like and can appear alone or in clusters. A lot of our weather comes from these clouds, so they are very well known and recognized.

Things to remember when drawing clouds:

-While winds may shear away at the bottoms of (cumulus) clouds, they really don't have perfectly straight bottoms. Often artists in comicdom will draw them with a straight-edged bottom, but that's not really accurate. It's a stylization. Clouds with their bottoms sheared away by wind look more like this:

http://www.carlwozniak.com/clouds/Graphics/New%20Pix/clouds13.jpg
http://points.donmcleer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/curved_roofline-2009-05-06.jpg

As you can see, there aren't any perfectly straight bottoms to those clouds. They are flatter on the bottom where the winds have clipped away at the base, but it's not a perfect straight plane.

-When you draw clouds, remember that clouds are supposed to be light, wispy and practically ethereal, so you shouldn't give clouds thick contour lines. Thin outlines is usually the best way to go. The thin contour lines will not only help to convey that they aren't heavy objects, but the thinner outlines also serve to make the clouds appear to be further away in the background.

-Less is more. It's better to draw a couple of clouds than to draw a few dozen. If you draw too many clouds these little shapes can draw the viewer's eyes, and they'll steal attention away from the more important parts of your drawing. Favor drawing a few over drawing many. Most of the time, it's better to draw one big cloud than it is to draw seven small ones. Keep that in mind.

-Easy on the details. It's not necessary to draw every curving bump and hump making up a puffy cloud. The outline of the cloud conveys the message pretty well without the need for too much extraneous detailing. A little goes a long way. If you're drawing a plane flying through a cloud or some situation where you might need to draw a little more detail, that's okay, but I always recommend the minimalist approach. Again, less is more.

Hope that helps some, P.R. Man.

:)

[The P.R. Man]

thats a huge help, I'm working on something that involves both clouds and hair, so this thread has been a lifesaver. ;)

[Bruce Lee]

thats a huge help, I'm working on something that involves both clouds and hair, so this thread has been a lifesaver. ;)

I just wanted to remind you that I do have a hair tutorial on drawing hair highlights already available on this board, guys:

http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?82126-Hair-Highlight-Tutorial

If you haven't checked that out, give it a whirl. Might find some help there too. :)

[NickRocks]

what do you do when (or if) you get that burned out feeling, like you're stuck in a rut artistically? Do you just read old comics?

[willesee]

Ive got some questions for you Loston if you have the time.
What kind of schedule did you guys go through while at the Kubert school? I know I try to do like figure drawing on Mons, Wed, and then other things like facial features, anatomy, and perspetive on other days. I could have sworn you wrote about having to do horse anantomy for a long time at one point, I just feel like I never get enough time to get better on any one thing because of switching from subject to subject day in and day out.

The Kubert School had two classes a day, five days a week. Each class was around 2 hours and 50 minutes long; 10 classes a week. Each class assigned at least one page of homework to do each week. It was not uncommon to have to do two, three or four pages for some classes. You might be doing pencilled, inked or even full color sequential page(s) or even a full painting for a class. Basically that meant that you had a LOT of work to do. You had to come home from school, eat, and basically go straight to your desk and begin doing your homework, otherwise it piled up high, and you'd get behind quickly. I think I spent (on average) around 13 hours a day at my art desk, including classroom time. It was not uncommon to work all night and go to school without sleep. It was tough, and a lot of the students couldn't and didn't hack it too well. I've been a professional artist since 1996, and I'd say that the Kubert School prepared me for the real world of drawing for a living very well. Drawing is often a lot of hard work, and paying your dues at the desk is essential for surviving in this dog-eat-dog world.


Also any tips on shading with crosshatching? I get the idea of it and I can do thinks like shade a ball, box etc, but the minute I get to shading a figure everything just looks off to me when i try to use the cross hatching styles that comic artist use. Thanks

You know, I don't really do a lot of crosshatching anymore. I've found over time that a lot of line work actually slows the work down, and is counter to what I'm trying to achieve on a page. I like to draw dynamic, action-oriented figures, and if you bog figures down with a lot of rendering, they seem to lose energy and become static. I'm much more about simplicity these days. I don't shy away from doing lighting, etc, but I try not to overdo the rendering of things. In my mind crosshatching rarely looks good on a human figure, and is better suited for use in backgrounds or on objects to create textures. Many artists using crosshatching on figures are striving to add extra dimension to the form, working to create some sort of halftone/graytone effect. Artists like Arthur Adams frequently use crosshatching effectively in their work, so I recommend that you check out a few of those guys to see how they're using the hatching effects. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the look of that, but artists like Adams can make it work because he also spots black well, and incorporates a lot of line weights and line variety in his forms. Without those things, I doubt his work would be as effective. I think that if you want to use hatching on a human figure, you should probably keep the line work thin and delicate, for the most part, to avoid visual confusing. Remember that hatching of any kind is about creating an area of gray in your drawing. Balance that out with enough spotted black and white negative space and you'll probably be okay. I recommend using hatching sparingly, and to worry more about drawing good figures to start with. Do that and you won't need a lot of rendering to see an illustration through. ;)

Hope that was helpful, willesee.

[The P.R. Man]

I could have sworn you wrote about having to do horse anantomy for a long time at one point,

thats sure something I'd like to see, having grown up with horses I cringe almost every time I see them depicted in comics, with thick necks, deformed legs, feet that are incapable of bearing weight, drives me nuts how people can take the time to perfectly render a western town and stagecoach, draw rediculously hot women and awesome guns and hardware, then their brains fall out in depicting their mode of transportation.

gonna stop and go calm down now. all wound up.

[Bruce Lee]

what do you do when (or if) you get that burned out feeling, like you're stuck in a rut artistically? Do you just read old comics?

Nope. I usually take a break from drawing for a little bit and do something else that I'm interested in for a while. I'll go watch a movie or do something physical like weight lifting, walking, etc. You see, Nick, a lot of times when you're feeling a little burned out in regards to draw, it's because you're creative battery simply needs to be recharged. For me, doing something else I'm interested in outside of drawing usually will do the trick. Watching movies, and pursuing other hobbies and interests works for me. When it comes to drawing it's important to draw upon life and life experience, and you can't do that if you don't have any actual life experiences. Know what I mean? Artists can't draw all the time. It's important to live a little or you will stagnate creatively.

[Bruce Lee]

thats sure something I'd like to see, having grown up with horses I cringe almost every time I see them depicted in comics, with thick necks, deformed legs, feet that are incapable of bearing weight, drives me nuts how people can take the time to perfectly render a western town and stagecoach, draw rediculously hot women and awesome guns and hardware, then their brains fall out in depicting their mode of transportation.

gonna stop and go calm down now. all wound up.

Here's a rough I did for a Headless Horseman commission:
http://www.lostonwallace.com/headless.jpg

The final image, was actually used on a Spike TV television show about the Headless Horseman:

http://www.lostonwallace.com/horseman.jpg

The spokesperson from Spike TV emailed me requesting permission to use the art on television, and asked me what I'd charge to allow them to use it. I gave her my fee, they paid it and I sent them the hi-rez file. According to the emails I received they wanted to use my artwork because I drew a "nice Horseman and a nice looking horse". I can't thank Jose Delbo, my former Kubert School instructor, enough for giving all those horse drawing assignments! He assured everyone in the class that knowing how to draw horses was important, and that we'd regret it if we didn't know how to draw them. He was right. Jose was always right!

Thank you, Jose!
http://josedelbo.com/about.html

[The P.R. Man]

Loston, (hijacking the thread yet again) could you give me some tips for drawing overwight people? I'm putting a couple in the project I'm working on, and they never seem to look quite right, plus, it bugs me the high ratio of overly muscled attractive people I always seem to see in comics, not that I dislike looking at attractive folks mind you, but it just doesn't seem realistic for every girl working at the gas station Spider Man's rescuing to have the exact same body as Mary Jane, and the Ad executive Superman's saving has the same broad shoulders and chisled abs that he does.

[Bruce Lee]

Loston, (hijacking the thread yet again) could you give me some tips for drawing overwight people? I'm putting a couple in the project I'm working on, and they never seem to look quite right, plus, it bugs me the high ratio of overly muscled attractive people I always seem to see in comics, not that I dislike looking at attractive folks mind you, but it just doesn't seem realistic for every girl working at the gas station Spider Man's rescuing to have the exact same body as Mary Jane, and the Ad executive Superman's saving has the same broad shoulders and chisled abs that he does.

It's hard to give you specific tips on drawing overweight people without first seeing your previous attempts at it, P.R. Man. I might could point out a few obvious things, but it's important to remember that everyone's definition of "overweight" seems to vary. When I think of "overweight" I think of someone who's too heavy for their body type, or someone who has amassed too much body fat. Someone who's amassed way too much body fat is "obese". Can you tell me or show me what you're having trouble with in particular?

[The P.R. Man]

I was thinking of ways the body is affected by the excess weight,also stuff like similarities in anatomy between overweight/obese people, or ways overweight people move in comparison to athletic people,
but in actually thinking about the question I think I jumped the gun, when I probably could figure out the question without posting it, I blame getting online before my brain has a chance to wake up.
come to think of it, my wife watches biggest loser all the time, and I suppose I could actually pay attention and find out exactly what I'm looking for rather than sit there and sketch hot chicks and guns while she watches it

I guess it's the guys who i first started to notice when I fiirst got into comics that kinda bug me the most, even though I still really like their stuff, and consider myself to be influenced by them. Tom Grummett, who's fat guys are just potbellied yet still have arms I could never hope to achieve, no matter how many cheeseburgers I lift a day, and Dan Jurgens, who made Shape look idiotic in Supreme power, Hypernion (granted, the guy WAS an idiot), like he just didn't give a crap drawing him. everybody's gotta look great, plus attractive people are more fun to draw and look at. wheras in comparison Eisner, (been on a big kick of reading his stuff lately) draws people of all body shapes, ugly, skinny, short, ect. so when someone really nice-looking comes along, they really pop out and look great by comparison.

hey, I just noticed all my friends are better looking than me. selfish bastards! they're USING me!

[Bruce Lee]

I was thinking of ways the body is affected by the excess weight,also stuff like similarities in anatomy between overweight/obese people, or ways overweight people move in comparison to athletic people,
but in actually thinking about the question I think I jumped the gun, when I probably could figure out the question without posting it, I blame getting online before my brain has a chance to wake up.
come to think of it, my wife watches biggest loser all the time, and I suppose I could actually pay attention and find out exactly what I'm looking for rather than sit there and sketch hot chicks and guns while she watches it

I guess it's the guys who i first started to notice when I fiirst got into comics that kinda bug me the most, even though I still really like their stuff, and consider myself to be influenced by them. Tom Grummett, who's fat guys are just potbellied yet still have arms I could never hope to achieve, no matter how many cheeseburgers I lift a day, and Dan Jurgens, who made Shape look idiotic in Supreme power, Hypernion (granted, the guy WAS an idiot), like he just didn't give a crap drawing him. everybody's gotta look great, plus attractive people are more fun to draw and look at. wheras in comparison Eisner, (been on a big kick of reading his stuff lately) draws people of all body shapes, ugly, skinny, short, ect. so when someone really nice-looking comes along, they really pop out and look great by comparison.

hey, I just noticed all my friends are better looking than me. selfish bastards! they're USING me!

My advice to you (or any other artist on PJ) is to try not to draw cookie-cutter or "stock" people. Drawing stock figures and poses is something that's unfortunately very common in the comic industry, and has been for decades. You ever notice that some artists draw the same sort of body types over and over again? Sometimes the same hair styles, the same flying poses, running poses, the same panel layouts, etc. It's always a lot more interesting to see an artist draw different sorts of faces and people. The extra effort an artist can make to make each character seem like an individual rather than a generic character is only going to add to the credibility of a drawing. Ever wonder what it would be like to have to draw Hank Pym, Steve Rogers, and Johnny Storm sitting at a table together? Many comic artists might be inclined to more or less draw these guys to look pretty much the same, as they are all blonde, lantern jawed, have muscular builds, and basically comb their hair the same way. These characters might just look like clones in the hands of a lazy artist doing cookie-cutter/ stock faces and bodies, but how much cooler would such a drawing be if it was easy to tell who was who? The sort of things an artist could do would be to vary the size of the characters, as well as their builds. Steve Rogers, being Captain America, should be bigger and more muscular with a thicker neck, wider shoulders, etc. An artist would probably want to make him Superman handsome, with the big squared jaw and chin. Johnny's physique would be muscular too, but he'd have less of a build--athletic, but no Captain America. You could play up the swirl in Johnny's hair, and make his face a little more boyish to emphasize his youth. He'd also be wearing clothing that's more hip than Steve Rogers. Hank Pym would have an athletic build, but maybe not as in shape as Johnny, and certainly not as much as Steve. Since Hank is a bit older, giving him a higher forehead would help make him unique. You might emphasize his cheekbones a little too, to show his age some, and giving him more conservative clothing might convey his age and his scientist background. The bottom line: it's the little extra care and attention to details like that that can make a huge difference. Such attention to details will make a drawing more credible, more interesting from a visual standpoint, and these same sorts of details can actually to keep clarity in the storytelling. It just pays to go the extra mile and do things right. Drawing "stock" imagery is just a bit lazy. Taking shortcuts rarely does you any favors where quality is concerned. At the end of the day an artist will know whether or not they did work to be proud of or just phoned it in for whatever reason.

[cs3ink]

Hey, figured you might be able to help. I'm a biztard (mentally challenged when it comes to business matters). I really wanna break into the card and commission game, but I'm UTTERLY clueless on how to go about this. I can produce the work, no problem (well, I can produce pin-ups and cards -- whether they're purchase-worthy or not the consumer will have to decide), but how to market myself is proving way beyond my mental faculties.

Thanks for your time.

Later,
Chip

[Bruce Lee]

Hey, figured you might be able to help. I'm a biztard (mentally challenged when it comes to business matters). I really wanna break into the card and commission game, but I'm UTTERLY clueless on how to go about this. I can produce the work, no problem (well, I can produce pin-ups and cards -- whether they're purchase-worthy or not the consumer will have to decide), but how to market myself is proving way beyond my mental faculties.

Thanks for your time.

Later,
Chip


A good place to start into doing commissions is to first, work up a small gallery of sample commissions you can showcase--three or four illustrations showing your commission skills. If you plan on doing superhero commissions, etc, you should put together a few superhero drawings. It's not a bad idea to scan an example of tight pencil commission, and also scan an inked commission to show would-be clients what they can expect for their money. I recommend doing at least one group shot commission sample too--like the Fantastic Four or something--to show that you're perfectly happy to do team shots. Once you have a gallery with some nice pieces, then you can start posting on you website, blog, or a forum that you're taking on commissions, and you can display your sample commissions along with the blurb. It's fine for an artist to state that they're available for commissions, but it pays to be able to show clients what sort of quality they can expect in return for their money. DeviantArt is a good place for drumming up commission business.

As for trading cards, I've never really done that. I do know that there are sketch card forums where artists and clients often hook up. You might want to check this place out. I don't know much about it, but you might be able to find out more info there:

http://scoundrelpublishing.com/spart/index.php?c=9

[cs3ink]

Thanks a ton for the advice, BL. There is simply WWAAYY too much I do not know about the business of comics and comic art. Sheesh, writing up my Xeric submission is nearly putting me into a coma.

[Eric Henson]

I have a technical question on doing a 2 page-spread. Can I just tape 2 11x17 bristols boards together (on the reverse side) and start drawing or do I need to cut the connecting sides down to the live area and then tape it?

--Thanks Loston!

[Bruce Lee]

I have a technical question on doing a 2 page-spread. Can I just tape 2 11x17 bristols boards together (on the reverse side) and start drawing or do I need to cut the connecting sides down to the live area and then tape it?

--Thanks Loston!


You'll need to cut the lefthand page on the right side and the righthand page on the left side at the vertical of trim line.


I think this might be of helpful for you to watch, Eric. Freddie Williams walks viewers through the creation of a digital template double-page spread template, and demonstrates where you'll need to cut:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=decJUMsGYEE&feature=player_embedded#!

http://freddieart.com/QuickTools/index.php?page=detail&get_id=19&category=4

[Web-Head]

Hi Loston,
You’ve always been the provider of sound advice so I’m hoping you’ll be able to help me out on this one too.

I’m considering putting together a sketchbook/ art book for sale at next years conventions but am a little concerned over copyright issues. The book would consist of work I’ve had published, creator owner stuff and a small fan art section. I’ve seen quite a few other artists produce sketchbooks and assume that they don’t go through the process of contacting every publisher one by one to ask permission?! Apart from being time consuming I can't imagine any publisher would give it the time of day and I wouldn’t expect a response… or is that how its generally done??

It also got me thinking more about copyright. My understanding is that despite the fact I’m not likely to sell more than 50 copies and it’s even less likely to make any kind of real profit, you’re still not supposed to publish fan art without permission… or is it just one of those unwritten rules that publishers generally don’t mind as long as its on a small scale…. for example, if everything was always to the letter of the law then no one would be able to do fan art commissions or sell fan art.

And to confuse things further, what about the more obscure characters that haven’t been active for years… and, say, 80's cartoon characters? I can imagine it being quite a task to research who the copyright belongs to in the first place.

Anyway, hope you’ll be able to shed a little light on the subject.

Cheers

Carl

[Bruce Lee]

Hi Loston,
You’ve always been the provider of sound advice so I’m hoping you’ll be able to help me out on this one too.

I’m considering putting together a sketchbook/ art book for sale at next years conventions but am a little concerned over copyright issues. The book would consist of work I’ve had published, creator owner stuff and a small fan art section. I’ve seen quite a few other artists produce sketchbooks and assume that they don’t go through the process of contacting every publisher one by one to ask permission?! Apart from being time consuming I can't imagine any publisher would give it the time of day and I wouldn’t expect a response… or is that how its generally done??

It also got me thinking more about copyright. My understanding is that despite the fact I’m not likely to sell more than 50 copies and it’s even less likely to make any kind of real profit, you’re still not supposed to publish fan art without permission… or is it just one of those unwritten rules that publishers generally don’t mind as long as its on a small scale…. for example, if everything was always to the letter of the law then no one would be able to do fan art commissions or sell fan art.

And to confuse things further, what about the more obscure characters that haven’t been active for years… and, say, 80's cartoon characters? I can imagine it being quite a task to research who the copyright belongs to in the first place.

Anyway, hope you’ll be able to shed a little light on the subject.

Cheers

Carl

Carl,

The short of it is this: Marvel Comics, DC Comics, etc aren't likely to make any kind of fuss about you self-publishing a sketchbook that features some of their characters to sell at conventions, provided it's a low print run, and that you acknowledge them as the trademark & copyright holder of each character in your sketchbook. Usually a statement like this can be used to acknowledge that you're not trying to usurp their rights:

SPIDER-MAN (TM) is a 2010 trademark and copyright (C) of Marvel Comics (Marvel Publishing, Inc.). No copyright infringement is intended, nor should be inferred.

Marvel, DC and other companies are very much aware that fans and creators benefit from the limited sales of sketchbooks and prints at cons, and they don't mind such things, just as long as you don't try to print massive amounts of copies. It's good P.R. and good advertising for companies like Marvel and DC to allow creators to use their characters--provided it's on a limited usage basis. Copyright laws are a little gray, but you are protected and are allowed to print a limited number of books, prints, etc without gaining permission from the copyright holder. That's a limited usage, mind you. If you seek to print massive amounts of product, you'll have to gain permission from the copyright holder to do so (and you'll have to pay a licensing fee). If a creator or fan printed up thousands of sketchbooks, or prints, or t-shirts with these characters, that would be conceived as an infringement, and a direct challenge to their copyright. These companies would be finding themselves in serious competition with sellers selling their own product! That would be considered a challenge to their copyright holder status, and they'd be forced to take action against the creator. The first action would result in a "cease and desist" letter, followed by an actual law suit if the creator continued to sell. It's a fine line. To be safe, I recommend selling no more than 50-100 copies of your sketchbook. Keep it a limited # of copies in production, and always include the companies copyright info & acknowledge that you're not attempting to infringe on it. You should be okay. Another thing you might consider doing, where your sketchbook is concerned, is to make sure that no copyrighted/trademarked character appears on the cover of your sketchbook. This shows some good faith on your part that you're not trying to use their characters as your main selling point, but rather your own artwork.

If you take steps to acknowledge the copyright and trademark holders, and keep your print runs low, you're good to go, and you won't be in violation of copyright law. If you get greedy and fail to acknowledge the copyright/trademark holders, you're asking for trouble.

Hope that helps, Carl.

[Web-Head]

Thats great! Many thanks for that Loston, appreciate the advice!!! :)

[Bruce Lee]

Thats great! Many thanks for that Loston, appreciate the advice!!! :)

You're most welcome, Web-Head. :)

[ArmstrongArts]

I have a new question for ya Loston. As far as what editor are looking for in a submission sample what type on finish on the art is preferred? The hatched rendering or grayscale rendering?

[Bruce Lee]

I have a new question for ya Loston. As far as what editor are looking for in a submission sample what type on finish on the art is preferred? The hatched rendering or grayscale rendering?

Good question. There's a lot of artists attempting to do the Finch/Yu/Charest rendering thing right now, I've noticed. That sort of thing is sort of trendy--flavor of the week kind of stuff. Next year, maybe nobody will be doing that sort of rendering. I generally avoid getting hung up on comic art trends, because they become dated very quickly.

To try to answer your question though, I think it's impossible to second guess what an editor may or may not find aesthetically pleasing. All editors are different, with their own personal tastes and have their own aesthetics, so it's best not to dwell on that sort of thing too much. When doing samples, I recommend that you try to be yourself, and draw things the way you think is best. If the editor has guidelines posted some place, then heed them. Otherwise, just do what you think works. If you're at the point where you feel confident enough to send in samples, you've probably already figured out what sort of approach works best for you anyway. It is smart to check out what the editor publishes, but that's not necessarily the only kind of artwork an editor might be interested in. I think most editors should be able to see quality when they see it.

I personally think that too much hatching tends to slow down the action in panels. Viewer's eyes tends to fixate on all that extra detail, so the page flow can often be interrupted if there's too much rendering to contend with. Not to mention that the extra rendering also is a little redundant in this age of digital coloring, and can even make the finally colored page look a little murky and cluttered. I think the hatching and rendering works better on black and white comics than on comics meant to have full color.

All that said, I'd hope that editors are more concerned with things like storytelling clarity than whether hatching is being used or not. I recommend presenting sequentials with strong drawing, good storytelling, with a minimal amount of rendering. Unless you're a master renderer like Arthur Adams, I suggest that you keep things simple, focus on story clarity, exciting layouts and compositions, lighting, etc.

My two cents.

[Bruce Lee]

I have a new question for ya Loston. As far as what editor are looking for in a submission sample what type on finish on the art is preferred? The hatched rendering or grayscale rendering?

Good question. There's a lot of artists attempting to do the Finch/Yu/Charest rendering thing right now, I've noticed. That sort of thing is sort of trendy--flavor of the week kind of stuff. Next year, maybe nobody will be doing that sort of rendering. I generally avoid getting hung up on comic art trends, because they become dated very quickly.

To try to answer your question though, I think it's impossible to second guess what an editor may or may not find aesthetically pleasing. All editors are different, with their own personal tastes and have their own aesthetics, so it's best not to dwell on that sort of thing too much. When doing samples, I recommend that you try to be yourself, and draw things the way you think is best. If the editor has guidelines posted some place, then heed them. Otherwise, just do what you think works. If you're at the point where you feel confident enough to send in samples, you've probably already figured out what sort of approach works best for you anyway. It is smart to check out what the editor publishes, but that's not necessarily the only kind of artwork an editor might be interested in. I think most editors should be able to see quality when they see it.

I personally think that too much hatching tends to slow down the action in panels. Viewer's eyes tends to fixate on all that extra detail, so the page flow can often be interrupted if there's too much rendering to contend with. Not to mention that the extra rendering also is a little redundant in this age of digital coloring, and can even make the finally colored page look a little murky and cluttered. I think the hatching and rendering works better on black and white comics than on comics meant to have full color.

All that said, I'd hope that editors are more concerned with things like storytelling clarity than whether hatching is being used or not. I recommend presenting sequentials with strong drawing, good storytelling, with a minimal amount of rendering. Unless you're a master renderer like Arthur Adams, I suggest that you keep things simple, focus on story clarity, exciting layouts and compositions, lighting, etc.

My two cents.

[ArmstrongArts]

Thanks loston that is pretty much what I was thinking. I have been trying to see more original pencils to get and idea what they look for and it has been mostly the non-greytone type. I feel you hit the nail one the head with how the art trends to the in style at the moment thing. I have been trying to stay away from swapping styles every week. It this point in my life I think my style is pretty set. I just question if it it the right thing. :)

[Bruce Lee]

Thanks loston that is pretty much what I was thinking. I have been trying to see more original pencils to get and idea what they look for and it has been mostly the non-greytone type. I feel you hit the nail one the head with how the art trends to the in style at the moment thing. I have been trying to stay away from swapping styles every week. It this point in my life I think my style is pretty set. I just question if it it the right thing. :)

The one thing I can say with great confidence in regards to editors and what they seek to publish is this: Styles and trends come and go, but good figure drawing and storytelling skills are always in demand.

[Orphangrinder]

Hi, Loston. I've been on a big Bruce Timm kick lately, and I see that you've done a lot of work in the Bruce Timm/DC Animated style (and you do a hell of a job of it!) I'm wondering if you could help me out with something I've been wondering about for some time:

How exactly does one go about learning to draw "on model"? When you come up against a new style that you have to learn, what is your process for learning it? Is there some trick to it? Do you have a strategy? Or does it really just come down to copying the model sheet enough that kinda becomes second nature -- "brute forcing" it, as it were?

I'd really appreciate any insight you can give -- I don’t even have any specific interest in drawing from others models, but I have enough trouble staying consistent with my own character designs!

[Bruce Lee]

Hi, Loston. I've been on a big Bruce Timm kick lately, and I see that you've done a lot of work in the Bruce Timm/DC Animated style (and you do a hell of a job of it!) I'm wondering if you could help me out with something I've been wondering about for some time:

How exactly does one go about learning to draw "on model"? When you come up against a new style that you have to learn, what is your process for learning it? Is there some trick to it? Do you have a strategy? Or does it really just come down to copying the model sheet enough that kinda becomes second nature -- "brute forcing" it, as it were?

Well, back in the day the artistic goals in comics was to draw characters to suit branding. In dulge me a little backstory:

Superman, Batman, Hulk and Spider-Man--these characters had an established look, and every artist learning to draw worked towards learning to draw a character to look a certain way. There was always individuals in comics, and no two artists every truly draw anything the same way. Jack Kirby's take on characters was certainly different from Neal Adams' take. No one would mistaken Ditko of Toth for another artist, nor John Buscema or Gil Kane, for that matter. But when you bought a comic back when I was growing up you had consistent looks to characters, and artists weren't encouraged to deviate to far from the house design. This was a time when artists tended to draw individual comic titles not for a six issue run, but for decades! Sal Buscema, for instance, drew the INCREDIBLE HULK for over 20 years. So anyone reading that comic new that the Hulk looked like Sal's Hulk. John Buscema drew CONAN THE BARBARIAN and SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN for 30 years, so his Conan was the standard of the day. Kurt Swan drew SUPERMAN for 30 years too, so his version of Superman was synonymous with that character. I grew up in this age of comics, and I was a self-taught artist. I learned to draw all the characters the way they looked in the comics. To me, drawing Superman to look like the familiar Superman in the comics was the goal. I applied the same devotion to character accuracy to everything. If I was drawing Bugs Bunny, I tried to do a Bugs that looked like the Bugs Bunny I saw on television, etc. So, from an early age, I trained my brain to draw anything I saw. I learned to draw everything via observation. I drew portraits the same way. I learned to draw trees by looking at real trees. I learned to draw cars from studying real cars. And here I am...

When I was first hired by DC to work on a BATMAN ANIMATED book , the licensing editor had liked the samples I'd produced, and was surprised to hear that I didn't have any of the BTAS comics or model sheets to work from. Before doing the samples I watched 3 taped episodes of the BATMAN THE ANIMATED SERIES, and I studied the drawing, and made mental notes. Because I'd learn to draw all my life using visual observation as my primary teacher, that was enough for me to produce work strong enough to get the job. Once I got the job, the editor gave me an official BTAS style guide, a HUGE stack of model sheets, and photo copies of storyboards, etc. From those, I learned to draw the animated style pretty well in about 2 days. I never copied from any of the model sheets. I don't use model sheets that way. I studied them for hours. Once I had done that, I'd then proceed to draw without them. The work I produced was not beholding directly to previously established art in the models. I could get it right or get it wrong on my own. Usually when I finished a drawing, I would THEN refer back to the model sheets to double check my work. Model sheets are GUIDES. THE AREN'T CHEAT SHEETS, and shouldn't be used that way. You aren't going to learn much unless you actually use your brain. Copying from a piece of paper won't teach you too much. Good observation though, can teach you to hone your brain into a sharp artistic instrument.

Anyway--that was the process I utilized to learn the animated style. But I have to tell you though--it wasn't that hard to learn. The girls, for instance were pretty much Dan DeCarlo's BETTY & VERONICA gals. I'd seen them in comics since I was a wee lad. It wasn't hard to learn something that I already knew how to draw! Timm borrowed a lot from other artists when he created the look of the BTAS show--DeCarlo's and Tex Avery's gals influenced all the Timm gals. They also have influenced Darwyn Cooke's gals, and my gals in LORNA: RELIC WRANGLER too.

I can't offer you any tricks, or shortcuts, or anything else like that. I learned to draw on my own, and in the process I developed some unusual art skills that many other artists don't seem to have. I can draw things almost anyway I want to draw them, whether it be realistic portraits, caricatures, whacky cartoons, or more stylized approaches. All I can say is that I learned to do it via visual observation. I trained my brain since I was 4 years old to deconstruct what I see, analyze it, and then be able to reproduce it. I don't need anything but a pencil and a piece of paper to draw things. I can draw "realistic" characters without needing reference of any kind. I understand perspective, lighting, foreshortening and many advanced drawing techniques because of a lifetime of drawing, and due to spending 2 years at the Joe Kubert School of Graphic Art. I learned to ink, color, letter, etc there. Experience + effort + desire to get better. I spend my time on PencilJack trying to leave feedback largely in hopes of preventing other artists from having to learn things the hard way, as I did. 24 years of trying to figure things out before I attended the Kubert School. I had much to "unlearn". I'll recommend to you and any other artist to take lifedrawing courses. Lifedrawing is the one thing that helped me the most. Even if you're a cartoonist, you should learn to draw the human form--and not the stylized form--but the real human form. Learning the human figure is invaluable. It will give you the keys to doing successful drawing of any kind. It will also help you develop your basic skills of proportion, etc. If you want to be a consistent artist, take some figure drawing courses. Nothing better to help you with that.

I hope I answered your questions, Orphangrinder, and I appreciate your post. Don't be a stranger 'round these parts!

Loston

[Orphangrinder]

Hey, Loston -- wow, thanks for the detailed reply! Wasn't exactly what I was hoping to hear, but the truth hurts sometimes, I guess. :) At least now I can stop chasing some mythical "method" and get down to the work of just grokking the model and its lines and shapes.

If you don't mind one more question -- when you're studying the model sheets, are there any aspects in particular that you pay special attention to? Proportions? Shapes? Line types?

Thanks again!

[Bruce Lee]

Proportions are extremely important--especially to keeping things looking "on-model". That's the majority of the ball game. Shapes are likewise very important as well. As far as line type goes, I don't pay that much attention to that sort of things when it comes to model sheets. The model sheets for the BATMAN ANIMATED SERIES, for instance, was prepared with animation in mind. Therefore the line weights were all static with the same consistent thickness throughout. But I was drawing kids books for DC, not doing animation cells, so I added my own line weights in for the sake of adding depth and dimension to the artwork.

Another thing that I study when it comes to model sheets is the attitude gestures of the figures. The best artists do body gestures, body language and expressions very well, and I usually try to pay attention to certain details like the shape of character's mouths, eyes, etc when they are emoting.

I also look to try to comprehend what the basic goals of the art are in the first place. The BTAS designs and models were very streamlined and minimalistic. The whole point of the streamlining of characters allowed animators and other artists the opportunity to play up the action better. Body parts could stretch and change if it helped sell the movement and energy in the drawing. That was the part of the BTAS that was the toughest---not the designs themselves--that was very easy. It was maintaining high energy in the anatomy and body language that is the secret to successfully executing the style. It forced me to be a better artist. After working on the BTAS and STAS books, I noticed that my artwork was becoming more dynamic across the board--no matter what style I worked in. I owe all of that to studying Bruce Timm's artworks and designs. The style itself is often very limited. It's very difficult to do birdseye and wormseye POV shots on characters drawn in this style and make them look good because the simplicity of head shapes, etc can sometimes look very strange at different angles. That is one of the biggest faults of the style, in my mind, but the strengths of the style far out weight the negatives. The energy and action the style allowed for is it's biggest strength. It's no wonder that the animation was so fluid to watch. Half of that came from the dynamic nature of the drawings themselves.

Weirdly enough, the BTAS stylings has helped me figure out how to draw other styles. I think that anyone can draw the BTAS style--but only a few can draw it well. That's the beauty of it. It tears the art down to the bare bones essentials. You can't depend on rendering and other such crutches to see you through. You actually have to draw dynamically to make it work well. If it's not dynamic, it's not going to work at all. The style is all about flow and energy. You have to raise your game to draw this stuff. I had to rise to the challenge back in the day, and I still find myself having to push things further every time I draw this way. Timm is a genius. He managed to maintain the minimalist approach of an Alex Toth with the energy of Frank Frazetta. No small wonder that this cartoons are so beloved even today.

http://www.lostonwallace.com/timm1.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/timm2.jpg

[CoreyPledger]

Howdy Loston.

It's been a while. I just recently started trying to figure out how to animate, I wouldn't suppose you'd have any tips for that? I downloaded a freeware program to start, it's called Synfig Studio.

Thanks regardless.

[Bruce Lee]

Howdy Loston.

It's been a while. I just recently started trying to figure out how to animate, I wouldn't suppose you'd have any tips for that? I downloaded a freeware program to start, it's called Synfig Studio.

Thanks regardless.

Animation was never my thing, Corey. I had a year of it at the Joe Kubert School, but I'm a novice when it comes to that. You should ask someone like Inkthinker about animation. He might be helpful to you. :)

[CoreyPledger]

I figured I should ask him but it only occurred to me after I shut my computer down.

I've spent the last year working on figuring out where exactly I would like to go with art, and animation is an avenue I haven't explored so I figured it would give me some direction.

Thanks anyway.

[K. Elamrani]

Hey Loston,

This is just something that's been bugging me for the longest time.

Like a lot of artists, I never feel satisfied with my work. Half the time, I look at other people's material, and ask myself...

"How long did that person take to draw that? It's so well done. That would have taken me days."

There are times I feel like some things like simple character concepts shouldn't take me an hour to do, especially when I look at the fluid sketches of such artists as yourself.

So I ask, how do you look at the time factor in the art you create? Do you judge yourself on how much time and effort spent, or would you take a drawing if it came out right after the first couple of lines.

Maybe this question is more about experience than anything else, and I just have a long way to go.

Kareem

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston,

This is just something that's been bugging me for the longest time.

Like a lot of artists, I never feel satisfied with my work. Half the time, I look at other people's material, and ask myself...

"How long did that person take to draw that? It's so well done. That would have taken me days."

There are times I feel like some things like simple character concepts shouldn't take me an hour to do, especially when I look at the fluid sketches of such artists as yourself.

So I ask, how do you look at the time factor in the art you create? Do you judge yourself on how much time and effort spent, or would you take a drawing if it came out right after the first couple of lines.

Maybe this question is more about experience than anything else, and I just have a long way to go.

Kareem

Sorry, Kareem, but I'm not exactly sure what it is you're trying to ask me here. ???

[K. Elamrani]

Ah, forgive me. I think I overcomplicated my question.

Basically, what do you think is more important: a drawing that takes a lot of time and effort, or a drawing that looks good because you got it right in the first few minutes?

I'm always thinking that I take too long when I draw these days.

[Bruce Lee]

Ah, forgive me. I think I overcomplicated my question.

Basically, what do you think is more important: a drawing that takes a lot of time and effort, or a drawing that looks good because you got it right in the first few minutes?

I'm always thinking that I take too long when I draw these days.

I don't think how much time you put into a drawing matters nearly as much as how well you plan the drawing and how well you execute it.

[Bruce Lee]

Ah, forgive me. I think I overcomplicated my question.

Basically, what do you think is more important: a drawing that takes a lot of time and effort, or a drawing that looks good because you got it right in the first few minutes?

I'm always thinking that I take too long when I draw these days.

I don't think how much time you put into a drawing matters nearly as much as how well you plan the drawing and how well you execute it. I don't think you need to stress and worry so much about the time factor involved, nearly as much as you should worry about maintaining quality in the drawing. A drawing will take as long as it takes. As long as the end results are good, that's what's important.

[Spidey]

Loston, I find myself strongly influenced by people who inspire me. Should I go with the flow and just let the inspiration take hold or should I strive to cement a style for myself?

[Bruce Lee]

Loston, I find myself strongly influenced by people who inspire me. Should I go with the flow and just let the inspiration take hold or should I strive to cement a style for myself?

I'd say worry about it when you actually get around to finishing a Marquis draw-off. Then you too might receive praises from Guy Davis.

SNAP!




And yes...

I am the Devil.

[K. Elamrani]

This is a random question I can't help but ask.

Loston,

I see your avatar and title is Bruce Lee.

Have you ever done some epic tribute drawing to the legendary martial artist? :D

[Spidey]

While your answer wasn't thoroughly insightful it did manage to make me feel guilty.

What's next? Are you going to draw a penis on my forehead?

http://net4baby.com/baby/images/stories/main/crying_baby.jpg

[Bruce Lee]

While your answer wasn't thoroughly insightful it did manage to make me feel guilty.

What's next? Are you going to draw a penis on my forehead?

LOL. Just kiddin', man. I swear I was. Sorry, man, but I just couldn't resist tossing that zinger your way. Forgive me. Hope I didn't really hurt your feelings--it was meant only in fun, I promise. :D

Would have really loved to have seen your Marquis though. That's for real.

To sincerely try to answer your question, Oscar...

Don't put too much pressure on yourself to be like other artists. Even if they are your influences, realize that you're your own guy, with your own path to take. I think style has to come about in a natural manner, via an instinctive evolution of an artists work output. I don't think you should try to force style, because I doubt that will work out well. IMO, comicdom/fandom often puts too much pressure on artists to be something they're not. "Flavor of the month" stylings come and go. What's hot one day, won't be as hot next month or next year, so that's also something to consider. I think it's counter-productive to the artistic creativity of an artist to try to be something they're not. Too many artists think they need to be the next Adam Hughes, David Finch, or Ryan Ottley to get work, or to have their work appreciated, but I don't think that's true. I say it's better to be yourself, to evolve at your own pace, and have fun drawing. The more work you do, the better you're going to get, and your style will come as your skills progress. People will notice good artwork, style be damned. Artwork of true quality and skill will always stand out in the crowd.

[alexcat321]

Nice thread you have here Loston, and I'm really upset I hadn't come here sooner. Gettin' to the point, here's a question for you from me, can you send me a free copy of Lorna? It'd be nice of you! *thumbs up*

[Bruce Lee]

Nice thread you have here Loston, and I'm reallu upset I hadn't come here later. Gettin' to the point, here's a question for you from me, can you send me a free copy of Lorna? It'd be nice of you! *thumbs up*

It'd also be nice if you would have ordered the book back in January, alexcat. LORNA could have really used your support.

[Bruce Lee]

Nice thread you have here Loston, and I'm reallu upset I hadn't come here later. Gettin' to the point, here's a question for you from me, can you send me a free copy of Lorna? It'd be nice of you! *thumbs up*

I'm sorry, but I can't afford to do that, Alex. :( It would have been great if you would have ordered the book back in January and showed it some support. That would truly have been nice of you, man. I would have appreciated that a whole lot.

[Bruce Lee]

This is a random question I can't help but ask.

Loston,

I see your avatar and title is Bruce Lee.

Have you ever done some epic tribute drawing to the legendary martial artist? :D

Years ago, I did, long before I ever came to PencilJack. I think my parents still have it hanging on their wall.

[alexcat321]

I'm sorry, but I can't afford to do that, Alex. :( It would have been great if you would have ordered the book back in January and showed it some support. That would truly have been nice of you, man. I would have appreciated that a whole lot.
Crud, well, I apologize for not having gotten it. I'm a last minute guy and it's still on my list of got-to-get-books. I'll be looking for a copy the next time I waltz into a comic store. I look forward to reading it! But another question, if not too much to ask, you know much about the animation industry? Being a big fan of animation, I would really like to become an animation director or something like it. Besides looking to become a well known comic artist, I also want to enter the field of animation.

[Bruce Lee]

I think you should be able to find it at a few comic shops still, and you might even be able to have your comic shop place a re-order for a copy through Diamond. Any comic shop worth a nickel will do that for a customer. The book doesn't have an extremely large print run, but there might be a few copies to be had on re-order, if you act fast. Other than that option, I could be persuaded to sell you one of my personal copies of the book. That, I could do. If you're interested in buying a copy from me, send me a PM and let me know. I'll give you a total (cost of book + shipping) and my PAYPAL info to send the payment to. I'll be more than happy to do that, but I just can't afford to give away my copies.

As far as animation goes, I do have some animation knowledge, having had an animation class at the KUBERT SCHOOL, but animation is certainly not my field of expertise. I have a few friends that are animators, but honestly I just don't know enough to probably be of assistance to you. You might try posting this question on the TIPS & TECH board. Inkthinker and a few other PJers will probably be able to answer your questions about animation much better than I could, alexcat.

Hope that helps.

[Bruce Lee]

I think you should be able to find it at a few comic shops still, and you might even be able to have your comic shop place a re-order for a copy through Diamond. Any comic shop worth a nickel will do that for a customer. The book doesn't have an extremely large print run, but there might be a few copies to be had on re-order, if you act fast. Other than that option, I could be persuaded to sell you one of my personal copies of the book. That, I could do. If you're interested in buying a copy from me, send me a PM and let me know. I'll give you a total (cost of book + shipping) and my PAYPAL info to send the payment to. I'll be more than happy to do that, but I just can't afford to give away my copies.

As far as animation goes, I do have some animation knowledge, having had an animation class at the KUBERT SCHOOL, but animation is certainly not my field of expertise. I have a few friends that are animators, but honestly I just don't know enough to probably be of assistance to you. You might try posting this question on the TIPS & TECH board. Inkthinker and a few other PJers will probably be able to answer your questions about animation much better than I could, alexcat.

Hope that helps.

[CoreyPledger]

In about a month, I'll be comfortable with bills enough that I think I'll buy a copy of your Lorna series, Loston.

[Bruce Lee]

In about a month, I'll be comfortable with bills enough that I think I'll buy a copy of your Lorna series, Loston.

Hope you can still find a copy, man. They might not be easy to find at this point.

[CoreyPledger]

Hope you can still find a copy, man. They might not be easy to find at this point.

I'll see what I can do.

EDIT:
Bingo.
http://www.brokenfrontier.com/reviews/p/detail/lorna-relic-wrangler

[K. Elamrani]

Loston,

I hope this isn't a stretch to ask this, but I've been having a really hard time with the human face lately. Every time I draw it I feel like I'm unable to get subtleties in the chin of the jawline. On top of that, I feel like I never have the correct distance between the eyes or from the corner of the eye to the edge of the face.

Here's an example to show some of the problems I'm having.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/Baraka/MichaelCalvin-1.jpg

Basically, I'm having trouble stylizing the face without making it look strange. Since you're an experienced illustrator, do you have any words of advice when it comes to tackling the human face? Perhaps some tricks of the trade you picked up as an artist over the years? My problem might just be that I don't draw enough faces from life.

Kareem

[Bruce Lee]

Loston,

I hope this isn't a stretch to ask this, but I've been having a really hard time with the human face lately. Every time I draw it I feel like I'm unable to get subtleties in the chin of the jawline. On top of that, I feel like I never have the correct distance between the eyes or from the corner of the eye to the edge of the face.

Here's an example to show some of the problems I'm having.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/Baraka/MichaelCalvin-1.jpg

Basically, I'm having trouble stylizing the face without making it look strange. Since you're an experienced illustrator, do you have any words of advice when it comes to tackling the human face? Perhaps some tricks of the trade you picked up as an artist over the years? My problem might just be that I don't draw enough faces from life.

Kareem

Well, right away I can see part of your problem. I often see this on people who are trying to draw manga or animated styles. Often artists draw the eyes to be too large for the heads they've drawn. I think this is the case with you as well. A good basic rule of thumb to consider when drawing a face is this:

Eyes on a human face should be one eye length apart from each other. That's extremely important to remember. Otherwise, the face will look weird. So, if you want to put large eyes on a face, you need to make sure that you widen the head at the top to allow for the spacing.

Using eyes lengths as a unit of measurement is a very good way to determine distances between facial features on the facJack Hamm talks about this in his book, DRAWING THE HEAD & FIGURE, which I highly recommend. He even provides a chart that illustrations the correct measurements. At a glance, this looks a little creepy (heh), but it's actually very helpful:

http://www.lostonwallace.com/eyespaces.jpg

Hamm's book also covers info on drawing all the features of the face, so find yourself a copy. They're $10 at most book stores. He also has a cartooning book as well, that's very good.

http://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Head-Figure-Perigee-Jack/dp/0399507914/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1302813181&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Cartooning-Head-Figure-Perigee-Jack/dp/0399508031/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1302813200&sr=8-2

[K. Elamrani]

Thanks Loston. That book looks like it will be worth it. I'll see if I can order it sometime this week.

[Bruce Lee]

Thanks Loston. That book looks like it will be worth it. I'll see if I can order it sometime this week.

No worries, Kareem. I really think that Jack Hamm book will provide you with a wealth of information. Glad I could help.

[The P.R. Man]

http://www.lostonwallace.com/eyespaces.jpg


wow, now I know what's going to haunt my nightmares for the next few weeks,

[Bruce Lee]

wow, now I know what's going to haunt my nightmares for the next few weeks,

Yeah--it's a very creepy image, but there are a number of artists both posting and lurking on PJ that should embrace this particularly bit of haunting. Facial proportions give many artists even more nightmares, and using the length of the human eye to measure things out to get the proper proportions really is effective. It works. Jack Hamm's book, DRAWING THE HEAD & FIGURE is filled with useful information that actually works. It's not a flashy book with a flashy cover. It won't teach you to draw manga and other stylized approaches, but it will help you learn to draw human heads and figures. In my opinion, it's one of the few books on the market that is actually helpful to both the novice and the veteran artist. Creepy but helpful images like the one above illustrate this point well. This book actually provides PRACTICAL INFORMATION, something that many art books often fail to provide.

[CoreyPledger]

Loston, I really miss your tutorials. I saved nearly every image, and they've been invaluable.

Ever think you'll get back around to it? I'd like to see you do one on general anatomy. :D

[Orphangrinder]

Hey, Loston -- thanks for mentioning Jack Hamm's figure drawing book. I've had most of the "classic" drawing books at one point or another -- even had Hamm's cartooning book when I was a kid -- but somehow, this one escaped me. It looks great, and I just ordered a copy.

[Bruce Lee]

Hey, Loston -- thanks for mentioning Jack Hamm's figure drawing book. I've had most of the "classic" drawing books at one point or another -- even had Hamm's cartooning book when I was a kid -- but somehow, this one escaped me. It looks great, and I just ordered a copy.

I think you'll enjoy the Hamm book. It really does have some great drawing tips, tidbits and useful information.

[Bruce Lee]

Loston, I really miss your tutorials. I saved nearly every image, and they've been invaluable.

Ever think you'll get back around to it? I'd like to see you do one on general anatomy. :D

Well, Corey--its like this: There are a lot of drawing books available today that already cover general anatomy, so I don't really have a desire to do those sorts of tutorials. I have done a few figure drawing tutorials in the past, but those aren't extensive. I chose to do a tutorial on the human ear only because it's an aspect of the human face that many artists fail to get right or fail to pay that much attention too. A lot of artists don't draw ears very well. I did the tutorial on drawing fists because that is an area where many comic artists sometimes struggle with as well, and I wanted to present a few shortcuts that might could simplify things.

I like to do tutorials, but I like to do tutorials that aren't readily available in art books. That's why I did the one on the "KIRBY KRACKLE" (AKA Kirby Dots), Superman's "S" emblem, etc. I'd like to eventually redo the THING tutorial, because a lot of artist struggle to understand how to construct that character--especially his rocky skin. Right now the tutorial that exists is unfinished, and only focuses on Ben Grimm's head and face. I'd like to revise that portion of the tut, and do sections on constructing his body, hands and feet also.

In the meantime, if anyone has anything specialized they'd like to see a tutorial on (something that can't be found in the average how-to drawing book) that won't require me writing pages of documentation, etc, I will entertain working up a tutorial. Suggestions are welcome.

[CoreyPledger]

Understandable. I only mentioned anatomy because, for me, sometimes it's easier to learn when it's coming directly from a person, rather than inferring certain details that I can't ask the artist about themselves.

But then again I guess I really should read more of all those books I bought.

[Bruce Lee]

Understandable. I only mentioned anatomy because, for me, sometimes it's easier to learn when it's coming directly from a person, rather than inferring certain details that I can't ask the artist about themselves.

But then again I guess I really should read more of all those books I bought.

You really should read them, yes. Heh. The whole point of buying them is to learn from them, right? ;)

[CoreyPledger]

You really should read them, yes. Heh. The whole point of buying them is to learn from them, right? ;)

My third grade teacher used to say the same. I just look at the pictures and giggle, same as 14 years ago. :P

I just left them at my friend's apartment and I haven't picked them up yet. Thanks for the tutorials you have done though, they're always helpful.

[CoreyPledger]

Another question, if you don't mind answering.

I've recently taken up learning simple animation (tough going so far) and I wanted to know if it would necessarily be a bad idea to keep learning how to draw and advance my 2D drawing, or if it would be best to go ahead and learn only from how the work would flow when animated, and even further if there's a difference between the ideas or is it that I'm inferring too much on the topic?

Thanks as always, Loston.

[Bruce Lee]

Another question, if you don't mind answering.

I've recently taken up learning simple animation (tough going so far) and I wanted to know if it would necessarily be a bad idea to keep learning how to draw and advance my 2D drawing, or if it would be best to go ahead and learn only from how the work would flow when animated, and even further if there's a difference between the ideas or is it that I'm inferring too much on the topic?

Thanks as always, Loston.

Keep learning to draw in 2-D. Even if you want to do 3-D animation, it's important to know how to draw figures, create body language, depth, lighting, etc, etc. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. Learn to do draw and to animate.

[alexcat321]

Loston, if I wanted to do a book or revisioning of a well known fairytale or folktale would I need to obtain the rights to them. Like for example, how Disney does their movies based off old fairy tales and the such. Would it just be okay to just make a book based off humpty dumpty for example and just not worry about it, or even the three little pigs? Just curious because I have something in mind.

[Bruce Lee]

Disney doesn't own the original fairytales, John, they have their own trademarked and copyrighted versions of them. They also have loads of money. It's best to tread lightly, so if you do your own fairy tales, you should make sure that you distinguish your fairy tales as being dramatically different. I wouldn't call your book "SNOW WHITE & THE SEVEN DWARVES or any of those titles that Disney has trademarked, for instance. Again, tread lightly. Disney loves to sue people over the rights to their properties, so try to find out as much information as you can on the laws, precedence, etc before you proceed further. Don't set yourself up for trouble if you can avoid it.

[alexcat321]

Thanks. I see where you're coming from, but I was only using Disney as an example because I was thinking of doing a dramatic revising of a fairytale or folktale that they've not yet done. I've also looked into the whole public domain copyright thing and it looks like most original fairy tales are in the public domain, so I should be safe if I decide to continue in this. But most definitely, I'm treading lightly and I appreciate your feedback, Loston. Thanks much.

[Orphangrinder]

Hey, Loston -- I just realized that I never replied to your very long and thoughtful response (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?81299-Ask-Loston-(Dr.-Stupid-Jr)...&p=1204665&viewfull=1#post1204665) to a question of mine. I feel like a total dick! So, thanks very much. There was a lot of interesting stuff in that post, worth spending some time and thought on. Recently, I've noticed in my own work that if I start with a simple, BTAS-inspired structure that works at that level, all swoops and straights-against-curves, it generates a much stronger drawing even when it's covered up with a more "standard" comic-book style. I still want to nail down that BTAS style -- or rather, something of my own with that level of simplicity and expressiveness -- but like you said, it's HARD!

[Bruce Lee]

Hey, Loston -- I just realized that I never replied to your very long and thoughtful response (http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?81299-Ask-Loston-(Dr.-Stupid-Jr)...&p=1204665&viewfull=1#post1204665) to a question of mine. I feel like a total dick! So, thanks very much. There was a lot of interesting stuff in that post, worth spending some time and thought on. Recently, I've noticed in my own work that if I start with a simple, BTAS-inspired structure that works at that level, all swoops and straights-against-curves, it generates a much stronger drawing even when it's covered up with a more "standard" comic-book style. I still want to nail down that BTAS style -- or rather, something of my own with that level of simplicity and expressiveness -- but like you said, it's HARD!

Simplicity is often difficult to achieve. It's an odd thing, but it is often true.

Drawing in a style that uses a minimal amount of lines can be risky. Less is more, but maintaining energy/life in the artwork is still critical. When I think of an artist who excelled at minimalist art, I always think of Alex Toth first and foremost, followed by Dan DeCarlo, and then I think of Bruce Timm. Simplicity is tough to do, but those artists make it seem so easy.

[SilverBulletKY]

Hey Loston, just saw that you have had the honor of having your work swiped by Granito. Congratz!

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston, just saw that you have had the honor of having your work swiped by Granito. Congratz!

Thanks! By the way, Shirley Jackson called--you just won the lottery! :skull:

[SilverBulletKY]

Thanks! By the way, Shirley Jackson called--you just won the lottery! :skull:

LOL sorry - What a joke though. I read his latest interviews. He thinks the comic world is going to give him a second chance because he's 'all controversial' now and people like that kind of thing.

[Bruce Lee]

LOL sorry - What a joke though. I read his latest interviews. He thinks the comic world is going to give him a second chance because he's 'all controversial' now and people like that kind of thing.

Yeah. I've read. He's very sad, that one. :(

[golgotha]

i have a question... do you have any tips, advice, or lessons on drawing clouds in ink. i usually make mine look like scribbles and was wondering if there is a tutorial on drawing background clouds in ink. thank you for all your advice.

[The P.R. Man]

I asked the same question awhile back, though not specifically about inking. i think its somewhere in this thread, id link it for you but i cant on my nook, sorry, :(

[DDeal12]

Someone might have already asked this but here goes...

When you first realized that you wanted to make art a career for yourself, what topics did you focus on first? Had you already learned to draw tons of different things or were you always drawing things that revolved around the same subject?

Thanks,
Daniel

[Bruce Lee]

Someone might have already asked this but here goes...

When you first realized that you wanted to make art a career for yourself, what topics did you focus on first? Had you already learned to draw tons of different things or were you always drawing things that revolved around the same subject?

Thanks,
Daniel

Daniel,

I was always drawing stuff, but naturally I mostly drew things I had an interest in. I loved cartoons, comic books, science fiction and monster movies so those are the kinds of things I drew as a kid. When I began taking art a little more seriously and thought I might make a go of it as a pro I started focusing on drawing people well. I began focusing on anatomy, proportion, likenesses, lighting, body language, foreshortening, etc--all at once. The Kubert School was a great help because we had life drawing class there. Drawing live models took me off the "comic book anatomy" path, and put me onto a path of drawing from life.

One of the best things that any artist can do is to get away from drawing only the things they enjoy, because the things you enjoy drawing are often fall under the category of comfort zone subject matter. Artists tend to already be pretty good at producing decent work within their comfort zones, but if you want to grow as an artist you have to start drawing things you're NOT comfortable with. Often those things involve things you don't have much interest in, or that you haven't much experience in drawing--at least not too often. For instance: if you're not good at drawing children, you need to draw children more often. If you suck at drawing horses, start learning to appreciate cowboy movies, and buy some books on horses. Start learning to draw past your weaknesses. If you want to be a well rounded artist, you can't cower from your weaknesses. You have to pin those down, and begin to transform your artistic shortcomings into artistic strengths. The only way to do that is through the experience ofdrawing and effort. Failure in artwork is often a very beneficial thing, providing you learn from how things went wrong. There's no shame in falling flat on your face in drawing if you walk away from the experience smarter and better prepared for next time. Failure is a great teacher. It can put you on the road to success, so don't be afraid of it.

[Bruce Lee]

i have a question... do you have any tips, advice, or lessons on drawing clouds in ink. i usually make mine look like scribbles and was wondering if there is a tutorial on drawing background clouds in ink. thank you for all your advice.

I might someday do a tutorial on drawing clouds, man. They're a lot tougher to draw than one might think. The best piece of advice I can give you is to keep the outlines as thin as possible, since clouds are supposed to be light and fluffy. Thicker outlines on heavy objects, thin outlines on light objects. Clouds being made up of water vapor means they should be be outlined with a thin, delicate line. Thinner lines on clouds also help to keep clouds from dominating a scene. Clouds that are overrended and outlined too thickly have a tendency to draw unwanted attention to themselves, thus stealing the show. Most of the time you want the clouds to stay in the background and be as unobtrusive as is possible.

Another thing to remember is that clouds come in a variety of sizes and all sorts of shapes. It wouldn't hurt to use reference images when drawing clouds, because doing that will help you to make them look more convincing.

A method that can work well is to fill the sky with a light halftone or color tone and then cutting out cloud shapes in white without using a black line to outline the clouds. This will produce a softer edge to the cloud and it will allow a cloud to stay ethereal and in the background. I did a similar technique to this on this sketch of Godzilla that was done on i-scribble:

http://www.lostonwallace.com/godzillascribble.jpg

With no visible black outline, the cloud automatically drops into the background without competing with too much with the subject matter for attention. I used to do this trick using zip-a-tone dot pattern films, cutting out the cloud shapes with an x-acto knife. It works pretty well, I think.

[Bruce Lee]

Next! :skull:

[Ace Corona]

Loston, how many hours a day and how many days a week should someone draw comics in order to get good enough to be a pro? What do you recommend as the minimum amount of time someone should spend drawing comics?

[The P.R. Man]

The industry standard is a page a day, some guys can do more, the quality of your work depends on however long it just takes to get good. Professionalism and ability to self promote has some bearing too id imagine.

[Ace Corona]

The industry standard is a page a day, some guys can do more, the quality of your work depends on however long it just takes to get good. Professionalism and ability to self promote has some bearing too id imagine.

Thanks P.R. Man, but that wasn't quite what I wanted to know. I wanted Loston's opinion on how many hours a day, and how many days a week an artist should draw if he wants to become a pro.

[Bruce Lee]

Loston, how many hours a day and how many days a week should someone draw comics in order to get good enough to be a pro? What do you recommend as the minimum amount of time someone should spend drawing comics?


There is no way to give you an answer like this because every artists is different. Some learn faster than others, and some are naturally better or more advanced than others. All I can offer you on a question like this is to say that the more your draw, the better you tend to good at it. Not everyone is cut out to draw comics, regardless. Only a few artists ever gain enough skills to turn pro, and become a pro requires skills and ability, a lot of willpower, moxie and determination, a little good luck and good timing. Etc. I am a fellow who believes that anything worth having is worth working hard for. If you want to be a comic book artist, work hard to become one. Draw as often as you can, pay attention to other artists and the world around you and strive to get better at both drawing and sequential storytelling. Keep in mind that CLARITY in your drawing and in your storytelling is essential for success. If a pro gives you some advice, pay attention. Most likely they've been around the track a few times, and they have garnered some experience. Be open to learning from that experience. Take advantage of such an opportunity. Do whatever you can to better yourself as an artist. Getting better might require you to take life drawing classes, to enroll in an art school, or to spend a lot of time figuring out how to do things better. Whatever the case, don't give up, and keep at it.

[Ace Corona]

Thanks for your advice, Loston. I'm taking a life drawing class next semester.

[Juggertha]

There are theories out there that say that I takes around 10,000 hours to master any given subject.

I'm not sure about being a master at that point, but sure as heck you'd better be decent after all that time.

[Ace Corona]

There are theories out there that say that I takes around 10,000 hours to master any given subject.

I'm not sure about being a master at that point, but sure as heck you'd better be decent after all that time.

To put that in perspective, when I was 19 I had to do 200 hours of community service. That was five consecutive weeks of 40 hour work days. One-thousand hours would be five times that amount of time, or 25 weeks. Multiply that by ten and you get 250 weeks of 40 hour work-weeks. So I guess we're looking at five years. Thanks Juggertha, that helps me put this into perspective.

[sirandal]

that 10,000 hours thing is popular to quote but bear in mind it cant just be aimless hours in pursuit of something. You need to be relatively focused and *instructed*. Of course that could be self-instruction via books, videos, etc. But I think you get my drift.

[Bruce Lee]

Anyone else have another question to ask?

[DDeal12]

Anyone else have another question to ask?

What are your favorite independent comics series? Are there some you don't pick up on a regular basis, just whether or not they look interesting?
also...
Have you ever bought comics just for their art, even if the story is just horrible?

[Zippy]

Weird Mystery or Tales of the Unexpected?

[Juggertha]

Anyone else have another question to ask?

What are the best ways for a freelance artist to get himself out there?

I mean, do you figure an online presence is best? Hitting the Con circuit? Advertising directly?

[brokenhill]

Yes . If a south going Zaks meets a North going Zaks head on who moves too the side?
Anyone else have another question to ask?

[The P.R. Man]

depends on if there are any starbellied sneeches around. they have stars upon thars.

[Bruce Lee]

What are your favorite independent comics series?

ROCKETEER. NEXUS. XENOZOIC TALES.


Are there some you don't pick up on a regular basis, just whether or not they look interesting?

I honestly don't pick up too many modern comics. I do pick up trades of BPRD and HELLBOY on occasion. I mostly collect comics from the 1960s-1980s these days. Every now and then a new series or many series will catch my fancy.


also...
Have you ever bought comics just for their art, even if the story is just horrible? Sure. I think every issue of the Warren VAMPIRELLA probably would qualify. Heh. Those Vampi stories were never all that much to write home about, to be honest. Most are just okay, but never were they truly astounding. I first bought issues of VAMPIRELLA in the 1980s. I bought them for the amazing artwork inside the covers. Artists like jose Gonzales, Rudy Nebres, and Estaban Maroto were a rare treat back in the '80s, because they were comic book illustrators--not just your typical run of the mill penciller. If Jose Gonzales did a Vampi story, he did 100% of the art chores--- the pencils and the inks. Often tonal rendering things with washers or with conte pencils, etc. That just wasn't something that was done at Marvel and DC at all. Warren artists did top notch work, and had more freedom to draw the way they wanted too, and the results usually lead to superior illustrative sequential pages. It was easy to buy those books for the art alone.

An example of a VAMPIRELLA opening page by Jose Gonzales:
http://www.lostonwallace.com/vampi.jpg

Today I wouldn't buy a comic just for the artwork alone, or just for the story alone. Comics are just too expensive as it is. I'd feel like I was wasting my money if I didn't get quality on both fronts. Gotta have good art and story to shell out bucks for it these days.

[Bruce Lee]

What are the best ways for a freelance artist to get himself out there?

I mean, do you figure an online presence is best? Hitting the Con circuit? Advertising directly?


You have to do everything, Ed, in this day and age. The competition is too fierce, and the jobs too few. If you want to be a successful freelancer you really need to have an online presence, to go to conventions and meet people, and to be persistent in trying to get work. Submit portfolio submissions whenever you can, and where ever you can. Visit online forums and take advantage of social media.

Think of it this way: If you want apples, you have to shake some apple trees. Waiting for apples to fall to the ground might eventually pay off....but you might starve in the meantime.

[Bruce Lee]

What are the best ways for a freelance artist to get himself out there?

I mean, do you figure an online presence is best? Hitting the Con circuit? Advertising directly?


You have to do everything, Ed, in this day and age. The competition is too fierce, and the jobs too few. If you want to be a successful freelancer you really need to have an online presence, to go to conventions and meet people, and to be persistent in trying to get work. Submit portfolio submissions whenever you can, and where ever you can. Visit online forums and take advantage of social media.

[Juggertha]

Yeah, I kind of figured that. i also figured I'd have to find out which was most effective for me. For example, I've thought about a collaboration in making my first full-length comic... partnering with a writer on here, but have tried to weigh the cost/time vs. potential reward.

I'm just figuring some paths have to be more productive than others - and for various reasons.

[Ace Corona]

Loston, what are the techniques you use when using an Ames lettering guide to do lettering by hand? I thought of asking this today when I had to make guidelines at the bottom of a panel on the bottom of the page, and it was kind of tricky. I use a Pacific Arc T-Square that is 30 inches long, and I was using Strathmore pre-ruled blueline bristol board and Staedtler 2H pencils.

[Bruce Lee]

Loston, what are the techniques you use when using an Ames lettering guide to do lettering by hand? I thought of asking this today when I had to make guidelines at the bottom of a panel on the bottom of the page, and it was kind of tricky. I use a Pacific Arc T-Square that is 30 inches long, and I was using Strathmore pre-ruled blueline bristol board and Staedtler 2H pencils.

You know, Ace--I actually learned to used that darned Ames lettering guide while I was at the Kubert School back in the '90s. It is a little tricky. I haven't actually used one since 1996, so I probably could use a refresher course myself. I know I have at least 2 Ames guides in the studio, but I'd have to go scavenging for them. Tell you what--if I find them soon, I'll do a tutorial or something. I just need to play around with the guide first to make sure I remember everything correctly. I don't want to give you bad info. In the meantime, there are bound to be several tutorials to use them online, so take advantage of google. There's probably even a few youtube videos on the subject.

Start with this one:

http://www.blambot.com/handlettering.shtml

[Ace Corona]

Thanks for your time Loston, I already know the basics, but that link might help others. I was just curious about whether you knew some advanced techniques for dealing with making guidelines at the bottom of the page, such as having a caption box at the bottom of a panel at the bottom of a page. I figured you might not have been doing hand lettering lately, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask. By the way, how do you letter? Is there specific software you use?

[Bruce Lee]

Thanks for your time Loston, I already know the basics, but that link might help others. I was just curious about whether you knew some advanced techniques for dealing with making guidelines at the bottom of the page, such as having a caption box at the bottom of a panel at the bottom of a page. I figured you might not have been doing hand lettering lately, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask. By the way, how do you letter? Is there specific software you use?

I don't typically do lettering these days, but I know how to do it by hand, and I'm not bad at it. I'm sorely out of practice though, because it's been years. I always draw my own sound effects by hand though. I dislike the look of digital sound effects because they're a little too mechanical and sterile, Imo. I find that it's easier to integrate hand drawn sound effects into the panel compositions, so I prefer that route. If you're not good at doing sound effects by hand though, I recommend using the font sound effects. At least it'll look more professional than poorly drawn ones. I prefer traditional lettering to digital lettering everytime--providing it's done well. An unskilled hand letterer can't do a well-drawn page any favors.

I have a SOUND EFFECTS BY HAND step-by-step tutorial here on my lab, if you'd like to check it out:

http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?92215-Sound-Effects-By-Hand-Tutorial

[Ian Miller]

Hey Loston, I couldn't really find any good info online for this, so I figured I'd ask you (And bump this awesome thread!).

I use Winsor Newton Series 7 brushes for almost everything I do, but my current brush has lost its point and really isn't doing what I want it to do. I've had it for close to a year, but I know they can last a lot longer, so I figure I haven't been cleaning and maintaining it properly. Do you have any advice for how to properly maintain natural hair brushes, and perhaps any advice on giving the brushes their point back (If that's possible)?

[amadarwin]

Think this'll work for ya.


Washing your brushes out with soap is desirable, but ever so often it's also good to use some shampoo/conditioner on the bristles, since good brushes have bristles made from animal hair. This helps to not only elliminate ink build-up on the bristles, but it also helps restore the brushes point, and help keep the bristles from fraying. I use a #2 & a #3 Raphael, Kolinski Red sable brush (8404). This is what I do to keep my brushes in good shape:

1) I never dip the brush in the ink past the half-way point of the bristles. This helps keep ink from getting under the metal cap that holds the bristles together. If ink gets under there, it can cause the bristles to fray or spread apart. You don't want that to happen!

2) I always keep a mayo-sized jar of water on-hand while inking so that I can dip my brush into the water every so often. This rinsing out of the brush helps to keep the ink from drying and hardening on the bristles. I'll wipe the bristles off with a paper towel, then redip the brush in the ink, and continue inking. I do this periodically so that the brush remains pliable while in use. This also helps prevent fraying in the bristles, naturally.

3) When I'm done inking, I'll rinse off the brush using warm water, and I'll gently rub some liquid soap onto the bristles, making sure that my rubbing loosens up any excess ink that might be left on the bristles. I'll then rinse the brush off again with warm water--repeating the procedure if necessary.

4) Afterwords, I'll reform the point of the brush (and as gross as it may sound, the best way to reform the point of an inking brush is by using your mouth), and then I'm done.

5) Every so often, fraying of the bristles will occur. When it does, that's when I break out the shampoo/conditioner. Like with the soap cleaning procedure, I use my fingers to rub in some shampoo/conditioner onto the bristles. This will remove ink build-up. I'll rinse the brush off with warm water, and finally, I'll reform the point.

6) If I'm really worried about fraying and don't think that a general shampooing/rinse will help the brush enough, I might leave the shampoo on the bristles for a whole day--maybe even two--without rinsing it off. I'm careful to apply the shampoo, reform the bristles to a point while leaving the shampoo in the bristles. I let the brush set for a day or so. The shampoo will harden, and this will help to re-train the hairs of the bristles so that they will continue to form a nice, desirable point. Once a day or so has past, I'll rinse out the shampoo, reforming the point afterwards. It should give you a "like new" brush, with a nice point suitable for inking.

Loston
http://www.lostonwallace.com

[Ugga Bugga]

Loston, who is your favorite seventies era magician from Canada?

[Ian Miller]

Thanks, Amadarwin, I guess I missed that! I'll try leaving some shampoo on a brush overnight and see if I can save myself $30-50.

[Bruce Lee]

Loston, who is your favorite seventies era magician from Canada?

Hmmm. Tough one. I guess it would have to be Douglas James Henning.

http://www.lostonwallace.com/henning.jpg

http://superradnow.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/doughenning-3.jpg

http://pumpkinjack.ca/Patterns%5C%5CMagicians/Original/dhenning.jpg

http://compumagic.com/magic/dh/images/WalkThruWall.jpg

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1392/5163249110_9ee2cd202b_o.jpg

[Bruce Lee]

Thanks, Amadarwin, I guess I missed that! I'll try leaving some shampoo on a brush overnight and see if I can save myself $30-50.

@ Amadarwin: Thanks for playing safety for me, Dave! Appreciate it, bud!

@Ian: Let your brush sit for three days, Ian, just to give the repair a fair chance. Lots of shampoo and conditioner, and make sure the point is reformed when you set it up to sit for the duration.

[Nickelhead]

I just found PJ about 2 weeks ago. I had one specific question for you and one "in general" question about the forum I figured you could answer.

Specific question is, do you have any tips/tuts for dealing with forshortening or perspective as it relates to the figure? Example of what I mean would be for instance a view looking down at a figure where it tapers smaller and smaller ( head is big, feet small) etc. For some reason to me, mine end up looking incorrect as if it were just a weird figure with distorted features.

In General Question: Does this forum only allow comic book type art? I do caricature/illustration type work and I didn't know if it fit in here. But I've always loved comic book art for its line work etc and want to incorporate some of that in my stuff.

Thanks.

[Bruce Lee]

I just found PJ about 2 weeks ago. I had one specific question for you and one "in general" question about the forum I figured you could answer.

Specific question is, do you have any tips/tuts for dealing with forshortening or perspective as it relates to the figure? Example of what I mean would be for instance a view looking down at a figure where it tapers smaller and smaller (head is big, feet small) etc. For some reason to me, mine end up looking incorrect as if it were just a weird figure with distorted features.

In General Question: Does this forum only allow comic book type art? I do caricature/illustration type work and I didn't know if it fit in here. But I've always loved comic book art for its line work etc and want to incorporate some of that in my stuff.

Thanks.

First off, welcome to PJ, Nickelhead!

-To answer your first question about foreshortening the figure, I do have one good tip. I'll post this Rocketeer drawing that I did a couple years back for the sake of visual reference:

http://www.lostonwallace.com/rocketeer.jpg

My tip is to always draw from foreground to background when you draw a foreshortened figure. In the case of the Rocketeer drawing above, I started out by drawing his left hand first, because it's the object closest to the viewer. Then I drew his left forearm, then his left bicep/tricep area, followed by his left shoulder. Then I drew his head (Helmet), then his torso, then his right arm, then his abdomen, etc. All the while, I kept in mind that as the objects that make up his body get further away from the viewer, then need to get smaller and taper. This might sound like an obvious tip, but you'd be surprised how many artists get this wrong. They start in the background or middle ground and then leap to the foreground or vice-versa. If you do that, you're stuck trying to make areas meet in the middle, which is tough to do. Often if you work that way, you'll find that you won't have left yourself enough room to draw in the middle parts of an arm, or whatever. By starting from the front and working backwards, one stage at a time, you give yourself room to plan and rework things if necessary. When I drew this Rocketeer piece, the dynamic foreshortening was not referenced. It's all from my head. It works because I understand human anatomy and I used the front to back method I just described. It sure makes drawing figures in perspective a lot easier when you work from front to back. Leaping around generally will spell disaster, so I don't recommend that.

As for as the anatomy shapes goes, it just takes practice to get the shapes right from certain angles. There are a few books on foreshortening the figure out there. If you like books with photos of models, this one is decent. A lot of photos of people stretched out on the floor, etc:

http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Foreshortening-Figure-Perspective-Second/dp/0471396966/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329607797&sr=8-1

This book is a good, general all-purpose anatomy book that's inexpensive and might be of some help too:
http://www.amazon.com/Human-Figure-Anatomy-Artists/dp/0140042431/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329607920&sr=1-2

The Human Figure book is an illustrated book, but the illustrations are accurate, and often show the human anatomy from different POVs and angles. Here's a few example pages from inside:

http://www.lostonwallace.com/anatomy1.jpg
http://www.lostonwallace.com/anatomy2.jpg

The best thing to keep in mind is that foreshortening a figure takes practice. The more experience you have doing it, the better you're likely going to be at it. Don't be afraid to study photographs for reference if necessary. Take a few photos of friends reaching out towards the camera, etc, and study the images. That'll honestly be helpful to you, I think. Of course nothing beats taking life drawing classes. That's the best way to figure out figure work in general.

-As for your second question, that's really one for the PJ SUPPORT & INFORMATION board. I could give you my ideas/opinions/understandings on the subject, but that wouldn't be an official answer as I'm no longer a moderator on PJ. That being the case, your question should really be addressed to this sub forum, Nickelhead: http://www.penciljack.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?16-Support-amp-Information

Anyway, I hope I helped you a little with the foreshortening question. :)

[Nickelhead]

Thanks. I'm pretty good with anatomy when I have reference I got my BFA about a year ago. But I think thats also what's hurting me because of such structured classic "academic" drawing now when I try to pull from imagination I find it harder. Any tips for improving imagination? lol I can nail references but unless I can teach my wife to fly it might be hard to set up some of the photographs. ;)

Appreciate you taking your time to answer. I read "David wasting paper" blog and seen your work and thought it was awesome so I tracked you down here.

[Bruce Lee]

Thanks. I'm pretty good with anatomy when I have reference I got my BFA about a year ago. But I think thats also what's hurting me because of such structured classic "academic" drawing now when I try to pull from imagination I find it harder. Any tips for improving imagination? lol I can nail references but unless I can teach my wife to fly it might be hard to set up some of the photographs. ;)

Appreciate you taking your time to answer. I read "David wasting paper" blog and seen your work and thought it was awesome so I tracked you down here.

Ah! Very cool. Glad to see you her on PJ!

[Lonrott]

I am not sure if you have spoke of this...but Alex Raymond vs Alex Toth? Which one do you like...and why? Just curious...

[Bruce Lee]

I am not sure if you have spoke of this...but Alex Raymond vs Alex Toth? Which one do you like...and why? Just curious...

I couldn't possibly pick one over the other. Both were brilliant.

[The P.R. Man]

hey man, I got offered a gig doing caricatures at a graduation party in a couple of weeks, and was hoping you had some brilliant tips you could offer me.

I've always enjoyed watching them done at theme parks, but other than doing realistic portraits have never really tried my hand at them. the rest of this month i'm imposing a crash course on myself.

been checking out Tom Richmond's blog HERE (http://www.tomrichmond.com/blog/tutorials/), but I know you've got a way of just beaming your experience directly into my brain, right? you've just been holding out on us all ^__^

gonna post a thread in the tips and tricks section as well, but I'd sure appreciate your insight

[Bruce Lee]

hey man, I got offered a gig doing caricatures at a graduation party in a couple of weeks, and was hoping you had some brilliant tips you could offer me.

I've always enjoyed watching them done at theme parks, but other than doing realistic portraits have never really tried my hand at them. the rest of this month i'm imposing a crash course on myself.

been checking out Tom Richmond's blog HERE (http://www.tomrichmond.com/blog/tutorials/), but I know you've got a way of just beaming your experience directly into my brain, right? you've just been holding out on us all ^__^

gonna post a thread in the tips and tricks section as well, but I'd sure appreciate your insight

Draw with markers or brush pens. Something that will give you nice, flowing lines with energy and spontaneity. Pitt brushpens, prisma colors and copics were well for Caricature work. I like to draw on bristol board, but ledger and marker paper works well too. Be sure to bring all the equipment you're going to need. Ask in advance if the client is going to supply you with
1) a table and chair
2) adequate light
3) food or beverage
DON'T ASSUME that the client knows to provide these things!!

Make sure you have a watch. Leave when you're supposed to, and stay later only if you are going to receive overtime pay. If you're in the middle of a drawing, make it your last one, and let people know it is. Otherwise, you'll never get home.

The idea of caricature is to exaggerate a person's features in an effort to poke a little fun at them. It's like a distorted portrait. Caricatures are supposed to be fun, and that's the idea. That said, here's something to consider...

...don't assume everyone has a sense of humor. A lot of people can't laugh at themselves. Often, people can be a little insecure about the way they actually look, so my advice is to not go too far with things. My personal experience is that most men don't mind it if a caricature artist has a little fun at their expense, but that's not always true of women. On several occasions I've found that women and young girls don't respond very well to humor at their expense, so when I draw a caricature of a female, I usually try not to draw anything offensive or unflattering. I'll usually try to flatter them instead. I'll exaggerate eyelashes, down play the size of a girl's nose, etc. While it is kind of a double standard to have, I find that it also is what makes people happy. At the end of the day, that's what a caricature artist is being paid to do, so try not to consider people's feelings just a bit. Keep the kids cute, the ladies pretty, and give the men hell.

You might be able to contact Bathill for a few pointers also. He's done a lot of caricature work, so he might have some pointers for you too.

[Ace Corona]

Loston, what years did you go to the Kubert school? The reason I ask is because I'm a year younger than you, and I'm trying to see what I was doing during the years you were there. Wishful thinking to see how my life would've been different if I would've went there.

If I could live my life over again starting at age 15 and I could win the Lotto at 18, I would've went to the school and made friends with you, and paid for your third year so you wouldn't have had to drop out.

[Bruce Lee]

Loston, what years did you go to the Kubert school? The reason I ask is because I'm a year younger than you, and I'm trying to see what I was doing during the years you were there. Wishful thinking to see how my life would've been different if I would've went there.

If I could live my life over again starting at age 15 and I could win the Lotto at 18, I would've went to the school and made friends with you, and paid for your third year so you wouldn't have had to drop out.

I went to the Joe Kubert School for two years--from 1994-1995 and 1996-1996. I did not attend the third year of school as I was already working professionally at that time.

[Fallenangel]

Hey,
Do you know of some tips/tutorials/books talking about dynamic/dramatic looking panels?

Thanks,
Fallen.

[Ian Miller]

Hey,
Do you know of some tips/tutorials/books talking about dynamic/dramatic looking panels?

Thanks,
Fallen.

I'm may not be Loston, but this is a great book (Written by a mentor of mine, no less!).

http://www.amazon.com/How-Draw-Dynamic-Comic-Books/dp/1887591958

[Fallenangel]

I'm may not be Loston, but this is a great book (Written by a mentor of mine, no less!).

http://www.amazon.com/How-Draw-Dynamic-Comic-Books/dp/1887591958

Thanks for the suggestion, gotta check this out :)

[Bruce Lee]

Hey,
Do you know of some tips/tutorials/books talking about dynamic/dramatic looking panels?

Thanks,
Fallen.

Check out any comic book drawn by Jack Kirby. He was a master of dramatic comic figures and panels. Strong compositions and dynamic storytelling. There was none better. Essential FANTASTIC FOUR books might prove to be very helpful to look at.

[Juggertha]

Any easy tricks for drawing a dog's leg (or any animal leg that's bent similar)?

[Bruce Lee]

Any easy tricks for drawing a dog's leg (or any animal leg that's bent similar)?

Well, Ed, the first thing I'd say is to forget about looking for shortcuts and easy tricks. Animals are complicated creatures, so there aren't a whole lot of easy tricks when it comes to figuring them out. When you want to draw any animal, it pays to learn as much about that animal as you can. Arm yourself with knowledge before you put pencil to paper. You'll do a lot less erasing that way.

There are hundreds of different dog breeds, and leg proportions vary greatly amongst the different breeds. A Welsh Corgi's leg proportions will be radically different from those of a Great Dane. Getting the proportions right is crucial. When it comes to separating different the body types of any animal, the proportions matter greatly. Cats, dogs, horses, deer and many other animals have relatively similar anatomy, but it's the proportions of the limbs, etc that are key.

Below is a PS image of a dog, with some particulars in regards to leg anatomy. I found a nice dog image on google to work from in an effort to not waste too much time. I'll follow the PS image with some observations and comments. Though I'm not by any means a dog anatomy expert, I think I might be able to point out a few things that will help you understand the basic leg anatomy of dogs just a little better.

http://www.lostonwallace.com/doganatomy.jpg

Dog legs aren't particularly easy to draw. If you haven't drawn a lot of dogs, you might even find them to be a bit confusing to understand at first. The front legs and back legs of a dog differ in appearance quite a bit. They differ in shape and function. A dog's hind legs have more curvature in the area of the thighs, and that curve sweeps back, and dramatically changes direction at the hock. This gives the back leg a much different look than the front legs.

THE HIND LEGS
One way to get a better understanding of the dog's hind legs is to first become familiar with the leg anatomy. Divide a dogs hind leg into three parts: An upper thigh, lower thigh, a lower hind leg. The top two thirds of the leg of a dog is the area of the thigh. The thigh can be subdivided into two separate areas--the upper thigh and lower thigh. The upper thigh starts from the hip joint and continues along the length of the femur bone. This area is thick with muscle. A dog's knee is located higher up on the curve of his leg (it's the end of his femur). Beneath the femur/knee area is the tibia bone, which tends to be the longest bone in the dog's leg. It runs from the end of the femur to the tarsal bones of the foot. The lower thigh area is muscular, and the longer tibia bone allows dogs to have greater running speeds than many other animals. On the backside of the tarsal bones is a large jutting bone that forms the hock part of a dogs leg.

Below the tarsals are the metatarsals, which are attached to the foot digits. This lower area of the leg is also known simply as the hind leg area of the back leg. This bottom portion of the leg forms a sharp directional change in the flow of the leg. The area of this change occurs in the tarsal bones, which also form a jutting corner in the back of the leg. This area is known as the hock. Below the tarsals are the metatarsals, toes, etc.

A dog's back legs bend at the knee and at the hock--similar to how a human's leg bends at the knee and ankle. Here's an image I found online that shows a dog bending his knee and hock joints:
http://www.abtcc.com/performance/SitPhys.jpg

THE FRONT LEGS
The front legs are a little easier to comprehend. They are very similar to the arms of a human. The front legs may have a slight curve above the elbow, but below the elbow the forearm area of the leg is straight. A dog's front legs bend at the elbow in the same way a human's arm bends at the elbow joint. Like humans, dogs have wrists that bend in a similar manner. (see illustration). Here's an image showing a dog bending the joints of his front leg:
http://www.sailcharbonneau.com/images/BaileyPutsHisPawsUp2.jpg

When dog's sleep, they sometimes bend their legs for comfort:
http://matthewgioiosi.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/dog-sleeping.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1165/997631139_abac393bca.jpg

So...

I don't know how much new information you may have gleaned from all of this, Ed, but the key to understanding how to draw anything is to gather information. Developing skills of observation is your best weapon when it comes to learning to draw. The Devil is always in the details. If you want to learn to draw dogs well, spend some time observing them. If you don't own a dog, watch some youtube videos of dogs. Do some sketches and jot down some notes. Those are great ways to figure things out. I hope this has helped a little.

I'll close by recommending two inexpensive and very good how-to-draw animals books.

THE ART OF ANIMAL DRAWING: CONSTRUCTION, ACTION ANALYSIS, CARICATURE by Ken Hultgren
http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Animal-Drawing-Construction/dp/0486274268/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338881142&sr=8-1

HOW TO DRAW ANIMALS by Jack Hamm
http://www.amazon.com/Draw-Animals-Perigee-Jack-Hamm/dp/0399508023/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338881163&sr=1-4



Doctor Stupid Jr, over and out.

Loston

[Nickelhead]

I've got a question about inking. What is the "normal" procedure? I see people selling the original pencils and inks and I've read of people scanning in pencils and then inking over the print out I suppose not sure though. Can you maybe break down the most common ways?

[Bruce Lee]

I've got a question about inking. What is the "normal" procedure? I see people selling the original pencils and inks and I've read of people scanning in pencils and then inking over the print out I suppose not sure though. Can you maybe break down the most common ways?

Before I get into things I wanted to mention that there is no such thing as a BEST way to do artwork. There is what's best for you, and what gets the best results for you.

That said, Nickelhead....

Believe it or not, the most common way to ink in the comic book industry is STILL the traditional inking methods inwhich an inker applies Indian Ink over the original pencils on the original artwork. The most common traditional inking tools are STILL crowquill pens (and/or nib pens), inking brushes like Raphael Kolinsky and Winsor & Newton Series 7 brushes, etc. Disposable pens like Faber-Castell Pitt Artists Pens and Sakura Micron Pens are fairly commonplace as well. Common inks include Speed Super Black India Ink, Universal Ink, Higgins Black Magic Ink, Pelikan 4001 Ink, etc. The most common board is 2-Ply 400 Series Strathmore Bristol Board. Many artists prefer blue lined art board for the sake of convenience.

Thanks to digital technology and advanced printer tech, many inkers now turn high resolution scans of pencilled pages into "blue line" images which they print out onto bristol board. This approach allows the penciller to keep their original pencilled pages free ofink. It also means that the original art know longer has to be mailed to the inker. An email or a dropbox upload will now suffice. This method has caught on, and is becoming a fairly common practice. Photoshop, Illustrator and Manga Studios are decent alternative ways to "ink" artwork.

There are advantages and disadvantages to each working method. The advantage of working over pencils should be obvious. You don't have to worry about lines dropping out in a scan, or worry about printer problems, etc. You also end up with the truest fusion of artwork between the penciller and inker. Another thing is in regards to the perk of selling "original" art. Artwork that contains pencils beneath the inks is something that most original art collectors prefer to buy. Some will buy pencils alone, but they will often pay LESS for such a page, as they see it as an incomplete page. Some art collectors want to see balloons on the original art also--they can be picky about such things.

These same collectors of original art tend to look at artwork that has been inked on blue line printouts as being similarly incomplete. They think of it as "only buying the inks" portion of the art--which is actually the case. They are less inclined to pay as much for inks over blue line work because often the big attraction of a comic art team is the penciller. If you're not getting the penciller's original pencils in the deal, all you're getting is the inker's work. Less interest, and less money to make on such original art.

Another pitfall to watch out for when inking over printed blue line artwork is that things often get lost in translation. That is to say that linework that is visible in scanned gray pencils, might not be nearly as sharp or visible when they have been changed to a blue line. I've seen this sort of thing happen many, many times, and it's one of the reasons I shy away from using blue pencils or inking over printed blue pencils. Thin and lighter lines and similar small details can literally disappear from panels on a print-out. And it's very hard to notice if they have or not unless you give the printed page a very good comparison. This can happen in the process of changing the gray pencil scanned art to blue lined art, or it can happen on the printouts themselves. It's a bigger deal than you think. It can mean the difference in how the final artwork turns out. For instance, it might keep a small figure in the background of a panel from having nose on the final inks...or that his belt loops don't show up, etc. Anything that lowers the quality of the final product, is to be avoided, in my opinion, so I'm throwing that out there. If you use this method, cool beans. Just be careful to make sure that you're not losing details in the artwork.

One last thing to mention in regards to inking over blue line printouts. Blue linework can be difficult to see under a desk lamp. It can be a strain on your eyes to ink over blue line work. Especially when you've worked over blue lines for hours and hours. If you worry about maintaining good vision, this is something to also consider.

I hope that helps.

[Nickelhead]

Thanks Loston, I agree about there being no best way to work I mainly just wondered about different procedures. You as always have provided a well detained much appreciated response. I originally asked because I inked over some pencils with a brush pen and for that it seemed like the blacks weren't rich because of the lead underneath. I already have some speedball ink and brushes but I've seen people use the pens to great results and I was trying to figure out if I went wrong.

One follow up to what you said. There isn't an issue with printing on Bristol board? Seems like ink may just sit on the surface as ink jets are known to do and either not settle well or take a while to dry. And I suppose if you color traditionally over the inks it may bleed correct? i.e. Watercolors etc

[Bruce Lee]

Thanks Loston, I agree about there being no best way to work I mainly just wondered about different procedures. You as always have provided a well detained much appreciated response. I originally asked because I inked over some pencils with a brush pen and for that it seemed like the blacks weren't rich because of the lead underneath. I already have some speedball ink and brushes but I've seen people use the pens to great results and I was trying to figure out if I went wrong.

Learning to ink with a brush takes years to master. There are a lot of things you need to know before you even start. If you'd like to learn to ink with a brush, I recommend finding a professional inker who inks with a brush, and ask them if they'll give you a live demonstration of how to do it. Sometimes you can catch an inker working on commissions or inking sketch work at conventions. Ask them if it's okay for you to watch them ink. Several years ago at a HeroesCon I enjoyed watching Alan Davis pencil a nice Batgirl and Supergirl image, and then I watched Robin Riggs ink it. It was a treat to see an art team of that caliber work on something from start to finish. That might be a good way for you to glean some useful information, Nickelhead.

Also when brush inking, realize that not all brushes are created equal. 8404 Raphael Kolinsky Red Sable brushes, #2 and #3 are, in my opinion, two of the best inking brushes on the market. A close second would be the Winsor & Newton Series 7 brushes. Beyond those brushes, I can't recommend any other brush type to ink with. If you're going to ink with a brush, you HAVE to use the right brushes. No acceptions. For those playing at home, brushpens are NOT brushes. They're not even close to being brushes. Accept no substitutes. 'Nuff said.

You have to take into account your ink as well. Speedball Super Black is a delightful ink, but you have to do some maintenance to keep it flowing. The water content of this ink often begins to evaporate when the lid has been off for too long, or if the ink has been sitting in the bottle too long. Also if it's sitting for too long, a lot of the mix can sink to the bottom, so it's important to shake the bottle to mix it up, and if necessary, it's a good idea to add some water to the ink. You only want to add a few drops. 5-7 drops should be plenty. Once you add the water drops, recap the ink, and shake it up. I recommend using a paper towel to wrap up the plastic bottle before shaking, because sometimes those plastic lids will leak. Once you're done shaking, remove the cap and inspect the ink. You should have a ton of those little ink bubbles. Let the bubbles disappear a little until and then you're good to go for dipping your brush into the ink.

Make sure you have a jar of water nearby for rinsing your brush every now and then. You don't want to let inking cake on your bristles. You also never want to get ink up and under that metal clasp, so when you dip your brush in the ink, try not to get ink too high on the bristles. Never go past 2/3rds of the way up the bristles. If you get ink under the metal clasp, rinse out your brush IMMEDIATELY! If you allow ink to get under the clasp and it dries, your brush bristles will split, and your inking point will be ruined. Soap and water or saddle soap ink removing products are great to wash out brushes, but I find that regular shampoo and conditioner does a great job removing ink from bristles, so try that. After you use your brush, wash it out thoroughly with the shampoo, then once again with the conditioner. Reform the point of the brush, then put the little plastic cap back on the brush tip to protect it. The next time you use your brush, the point will be good to go.

If you find that the point of your brush is being to split, they you can try retraining the bristles. First, wash your brush with shampoo and conditioner. Rinse thoroughly and reform the point. If the point is still fraying, you can re-shampoo and condition the brush to make sure all the ink has been removed. Then, put a little quarter-size pool of conditioner and rub it onto the bristles. This time around, DON'T rinse it out. Instead, reform the point of the brush with the conditioner still on the bristles. Recap the brush and set it up some place like a window seal--any place out of the way is fine. Let the brush sit that way for a few days. The conditioner will dry on the bristles and that will hopefully retrain the fraying brush hairs. After a few days (1-5 days), remove the cap on the brush, and rinse out the conditioner thoroughly. Your brush should have a much better point--practically good as new. The retraining usually works out, but sometimes it's just time to buy a new brush. Brushes are an investment. Take care of them.


One follow up to what you said. There isn't an issue with printing on Bristol board?

Well, some printers aren't equipped to handle thick boards like bristol and other thicker papers, but there are some that can. There are printers that can print on 1-ply bristol board, and even a few that can do 2-ply. I don't know the particular printer brands, but I know they exist.

QUOTE]Seems like ink may just sit on the surface as ink jets are known to do and either not settle well or take a while to dry.[/QUOTE]
That's a distinct possibility, but you might want to talk to an inker who uses this particular process to find out more about that.


And I suppose if you color traditionally over the inks it may bleed correct? i.e. Watercolors etc

If you use a high grade ink like Speedball Super Black ink, and the art was done on good paper like bristol, you probably don't have to worry about. Speedball doesn't tend bleed when you color on top of it. It's a nice permanent, waterproof ink. Cheaper inks, I can't vouch for.

[Juggertha]

Thanks for all the tips on the animal legs, Loston. Mucho appreciated.

Now, I've gotta find a chance to use 'em.

[Fallenangel]

Check out any comic book drawn by Jack Kirby. He was a master of dramatic comic figures and panels. Strong compositions and dynamic storytelling. There was none better. Essential FANTASTIC FOUR books might prove to be very helpful to look at.

Thank you for the help :D, i"ll check them.

Fallen.

[Bruce Lee]

Thanks for all the tips on the animal legs, Loston. Mucho appreciated.

Now, I've gotta find a chance to use 'em.

No problem, Ed. Hopefully other viewers of this thread got something out of that post also. Sometimes it's just helpful to have another person point out a few observations to help get our brains working on the right track.



Thank you for the help :D, i"ll check them.

Fallen.

I think you'll enjoy the Kirby compositions, layouts and dynamics. Here are a few examples from the ESSENTIAL FANTASTIC FOUR volumes to whet your appetite. :)

http://www.lostonwallace.com/action.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/depth.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/action2.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/depth2.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/action3.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/depth3.jpg

http://www.lostonwallace.com/action4.jpg

[Nickelhead]

Thanks Loston, I'll look into finding more info maybe YouTube has some vids. As far as the ink bleed question, I was referring to the inkjet printer ink bleeding but I suppose maybe the top layer of speedball would seal that.

Thanks again for all the info man.

[ssss6eight1]

Do you have any tips on how to overcome a bad drawing day-- you know, when you just can't quite get the lines on the paper right and it starts to make you mad and sad (cuz' you still wanna draw, you're just not doing it well, so you stop before you start getting even more mad and sad)? I mean, like, emotionally overcome it... not, like, tricks you've learned so you can keep drawing that day. How to get over it and not feel all bad about it for the remainder of the day, and, whatever... you know?

[Bruce Lee]

Do you have any tips on how to overcome a bad drawing day-- you know, when you just can't quite get the lines on the paper right and it starts to make you mad and sad (cuz' you still wanna draw, you're just not doing it well, so you stop before you start getting even more mad and sad)? I mean, like, emotionally overcome it... not, like, tricks you've learned so you can keep drawing that day. How to get over it and not feel all bad about it for the remainder of the day, and, whatever... you know?


A very "Dear Abby" type of question, eh? ;) All right. Here goes...

If drawing is making you feel angry or sad, do something else. Drawing should be fun, but the struggle to improve can often take a toll on any artist. There are going to be days when you should do something else besides drawing. Sometimes you just need to re-energize your artistic batteries, and the best way to do something other than art. Do something physical, like taking a walk, lifting weights, etc. Watch a movie, or simply get out of the house for a little while. The human brain needs different kinds of stimulation. If you're hitting a wall drawing, and you're emotionally upset, get out of your funk by moving on to something else. Read a book...ANYTHING else. Take your mind off of your artistic frustrations by investing time into a different hobby or activity. Even taking a nap might do you some good. Just get your mind off of drawing for a little while. That's the best medicine for soothing emotional frustrations caused by a bad artistic day.

[Ugga Bugga]

Hi Loston,

How do you overcome a day that you cannot get Ethel Merman out of your mind? It happens to me all the time. Does exercise or naps work?

[Bruce Lee]

Hi Loston,

How do you overcome a day that you cannot get Ethel Merman out of your mind? It happens to me all the time. Does exercise or naps work?

I think you need an exorcism. It's the only way. Or....

....you can enlist the help of Carmen Miranda's ghost:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5p8YhhaVlA

[Bathill8]

Loston love your column. Very helpful.

How do you overcome those days when you're tired of trying to take over the world? All you wanna do is make the world your submissive b*tch but every spandex clad wanna be do-gooder with the ability to fly or manifest ridiculous creations out their arse stands in the way and tries to be beacon of light for humanity. Asking for a friend (Dr Doom). Thanks Loston!

Bat

[Bruce Lee]

Loston love your column. Very helpful.

How do you overcome those days when you're tired of trying to take over the world? All you wanna do is make the world your submissive b*tch but every spandex clad wanna be do-gooder with the ability to fly or manifest ridiculous creations out their arse stands in the way and tries to be beacon of light for humanity. Asking for a friend (Dr Doom). Thanks Loston!

Bat

Bat,

Thank you for the lovely question. First of all, drugs are bad, m'kay.

Second, you need to remember that you are the Sovereign Monarch of Latveria, a kingdom that respects you and that trembles before your godly might. In the grand scheme of things, few humans can boast your great accomplishments. Richards and those meddling fools can wait another day, because you are Doom, and you are vengeance. Your day will soon come, and the destruction of all who stand in your way will feel the awesome fury of your wrath. It is inevitable that you will crush them all, so now is the time to enjoy the triumph that will soon become a reality.

[Ace Corona]

Loston, when you were enrolled at the Kubert school, can you tell us any stories about classmates of yours who went out to bars/nightclubs on the weekends while you stayed home and worked on homework assignments all weekend, and your grades showed your diligence, while their grades weren't so great because they spent too much time partying?

[Ace Corona]

Loston, when you were enrolled at the Kubert school, can you tell us any stories about classmates of yours who went out to bars/nightclubs on the weekends while you stayed home and worked on homework assignments all weekend, and your grades showed your diligence, while their grades weren't so great because they spent too much time partying?

What happened to the answer to this question? I read it earlier (it was a double post), then later in the evening it was gone. Did you share something with us you shouldn't have, Loston?

[Bruce Lee]

What happened to the answer to this question? I read it earlier (it was a double post), then later in the evening it was gone. Did you share something with us you shouldn't have, Loston?

When the forum was moved to the new server, some posts were lost. Check out this thread:
http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?115702-We-ve-MOVED!&p=1297223#post1297223

[Bruce Lee]

Okay. If you have a serious artistic question that you think I can help you, Please ask away.

Next!

[ditch]

Loston any tips you can give me for drawing Batman's cowl i suddenly seem unable to get it to look right.

[Jcatlett76]

I have a crazy question Loston. I read Lorna The Relic Wrangler and I know you've worked on several other titles as well. Lorna was the only one I could find to buy so I'm using that as an example. I noticed the story telling was very free flowing and dynamic. Each of your panels just adds something to the story and detracts nothing. I find that you are a very accomplished story teller and to be honest I'm a bit envious lol! I've been putting together a comic I want to independently publish but I keep running into snags when it comes to the story telling. The art I figure I'll improve with time and experience but page layout and design is something I have been struggling with and that means a much dreaded delay in my project. I have a great script I've worked hard on and I try to stay true to it but the deviations is where I am running into trouble. So, my question to you is this; do you think you will ever do a tutorial on page and panel design as it relates to story telling? If not, outside of going to school, do you know of any really good resources that don't just show you what they've done but rather how to go from script, thumbnails, roughs, to finals in a way that won't make my head explode?

[Bruce Lee]

Loston any tips you can give me for drawing Batman's cowl i suddenly seem unable to get it to look right.

Post your recent efforts. I'll see if I can clue you in on what you're doing that's throwing things off, man.

[Bruce Lee]

I have a crazy question Loston. I read Lorna The Relic Wrangler and I know you've worked on several other titles as well. Lorna was the only one I could find to buy so I'm using that as an example. I noticed the story telling was very free flowing and dynamic. Each of your panels just adds something to the story and detracts nothing. I find that you are a very accomplished story teller and to be honest I'm a bit envious lol! I've been putting together a comic I want to independently publish but I keep running into snags when it comes to the story telling. The art I figure I'll improve with time and experience but page layout and design is something I have been struggling with and that means a much dreaded delay in my project. I have a great script I've worked hard on and I try to stay true to it but the deviations is where I am running into trouble. So, my question to you is this; do you think you will ever do a tutorial on page and panel design as it relates to story telling? If not, outside of going to school, do you know of any really good resources that don't just show you what they've done but rather how to go from script, thumbnails, roughs, to finals in a way that won't make my head explode?


First off, let me thank you for the kind words about LORNA RELIC WRANGLER and my sequential abilities. Your kindness and positive feedback is greatly appreciated. I've worked very hard to become a good comic book sequential artist. I believe in CLARITY over everything else, and I try to produce artwork that tells the story in the script. When I draw a comic page I try to leave my own artistic vanities behind, and I try to focus on the actions taking place in the story. I do my best to convey what's transpiring in a way that's visually interesting and compelling, but I don't worry about producing pin-up splashes, and all that. I try to produce pages that set the stage well, defining location, and the spacial relationships of characters, and I do my damnedest to allow room for balloons and caption text. I strive to create figures that are visually dynamic when it is called for, with body language and expressions designed to enhance the storytelling.

It is never easy to construct a good comic book page, but with a little thought, I can do it to my own satisfaction. I have heard many compliments in regards to my sequential skills in LORNA. The Joe Kubert School and years of reading comics seems to have paid off. I have followed the works of many of comicdom's greatest storytellers, and I have picked up a lot from just that. Watching older movies helps to, because older, black & white era films tend to have clearer visual storytelling than many modern films, and those b&w films had to deal more with contrast in the shots. The Penciljack forum has been helpful too. I've learned a lot from other artists, and from reviewing other artist's work. I really appreciate you noticing my skills, and I thank you very much for picking up the book!

On the subject of how-to books on sequential art.....sadly, there aren't many books on the subject of sequential art that are worth very much, in my opinion. I have a couple, but I wouldn't recommend any of them, because they're not the kind of books that I think you're looking for. They're good reads, but I don't think there's a whole lot to glean about the mechanics of sequential art in them. At best, you get some opinions and overviews, but it's not in-depth stuff. You can learn more about sequential art from looking at the WALLY WOOD'S 22 PANELS THAT ALWAYS WORK page than you could from reading those books, so I won't bother mentioning them specifically.

I can recommend that you start looking at the works of several comic artists that are fantastic storytellers. Here's a number of comic artists who are aces at telling clear, exciting and visually appealing comic book stories:

-Jack Kirby --The master of dynamic action, panel depth and an innovator in panel layout. Great POV shots. Raw power and amazing energy
-Alex Toth--One of the true geniuses of the comic book medium. A master minimalist, with great composition and contrast, and unbelievable drawing skills. It's very tough to find flaws with Toth's work. He was THAT good.
-Wally Wood--Wood did everything well. He could draw,ink and tell as story with the best of them. He was one of the greatests comic artist sof all time. He was good at everything.
-Gene Colan--Dynamic figures and layout, amazing lighting, incredible action and POV shots
-Gil Kane--Dynamic figures--the master of foreshortening. Storytelling is always clear. Great POV shots
-John Buscema--Buscema drew with the power of Jack Kirby, and the drawing skills of an Alex Raymond. Storytelling was always spot-on brilliant
-Will Eisner--A brilliant and innovative storyteller. Like Toth and Kirby, Eisner is one of the masters of comicdom
-Steve Ditko--(Ditko is a creative and innovative storyteller. His art might be an acquired taste for some, but I love his work. His work is dynamic and always visually interesting
-Carl Barks--He might have drawn ducks for Disney, but he was a sequential art genius if there ever was one. Clean art, amazing skills, with amazing clarity. Don't overlook him
-Joe Kubert--No bias here. Joe just happens to be one of comicdom's greatest storytellers. If you haven't read an issue of SGT. ROCK, pick up some back issues. You'll see what I mean.
-Neal Adams--Innovative layout and dynamic drawing skills, with a more realistic take on superheroes, great lighting, and a lot of pencilling power. He redefined the Batman in the 1960s, and like Kirby, inspired generations of comic artists.
-Darwyn Cooke--Cooke was a storyboard artist, and he is a tremendous visual storyteller. He has great lighting skills and a knack for Noir layout and design
-Frank Miller--I have to admit that I don't Frank's modern comic book work, but I added him to this list because his work on DAREDEVIL shouldn't be overlooked. The panels are like watching a movie unfold a frame at a time. Worth checking out.

[Ian Miller]

Hey Loston, on the subject of books on storytelling, have you ever checked this one out? http://www.amazon.com/Panel-Discussions-Design-Sequential-Storytelling/dp/1893905144/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340725630&sr=8-1&keywords=panel+discussions

This is the book that made me realize that comics are more than just a bunch of pretty pictures on a page. This book, combined with discovering Alex Toth, were the catalyst that made me go overdrive into working on my storytelling.

[Bruce Lee]

Hey Loston, on the subject of books on storytelling, have you ever checked this one out? http://www.amazon.com/Panel-Discussions-Design-Sequential-Storytelling/dp/1893905144/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340725630&sr=8-1&keywords=panel+discussions

This is the book that made me realize that comics are more than just a bunch of pretty pictures on a page. This book, combined with discovering Alex Toth, were the catalyst that made me go overdrive into working on my storytelling.

Yeah, I have that book, Ian. I was actually thinking about this book in particular when I responded earlier in this thread. I think you could learn more from the WALLY WOOD'S 22 PANELS THAT ALWAYS WORK than you could from this volume. I pre-ordered a copy of PANEL DISCUSSIONS from Twomorrows back in 2002. It was an interesting read, but I wouldn't say that I found it to be amazingly informative. I don't remember feeling that I'd learn any new insights from reading PANEL DISCUSSIONS, but I do remember wanting it to provide me with something new. I did really like the sections on Mark Schultz and Mike Mignola. You do learn little nuggets such as the reason Mignola stopped spotting black around the panel borders, etc.

I'd be inclined to recommend the book to sequential art beginners, but for those seeking more advanced info and sequential knowledge....well, you should keep your expectations reasonable. I wouldn't say that it was a Holy Grail book on sequential art by any means, but it is one of the few books that attempts to tackle the subject. It's a book where several creators talk over their philosophies on comic art, primarily.

I actually enjoyed WORKING METHODS by John Lowe a lot more than the panel discussion book, because you get to compare several comic artists tackling the same scripted pages. I found the comparison of how each artist tackled the problems of the scripts to be far more informative. Mark Schultz is also featured in this book as well, coincidentally.

Unfortunately, the book seems to be out of print, but Amazon has a few used copies that are reasonably priced:

http://www.amazon.com/Working-Methods-Creators-Storytelling-Processes/dp/189390573X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340730636&sr=8-1&keywords=working+method+john+lowe

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/189390573X/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used


NEXT!

[Jcatlett76]

Thanks Loston. I think I'll do exactly as you suggested and look at how other story tellers go about doing their thing. I'm started to figure out that laying pencil to paper is the least of the work.

[Lonrott]

Dr. Stupid, Jr.,

I am not sure if you have covered this before, any thoughts on panels themselves? I mean when to use those fancy, jagged panels, when to have over lapping panels (crazy jagged panel over another jagged panel), and all sorts of stuff I see in comics these days. To be honest, I find them distracting from the story.

Thanks Dr.

[Bruce Lee]

Dr. Stupid, Jr.,

I am not sure if you have covered this before, any thoughts on panels themselves? I mean when to use those fancy, jagged panels, when to have over lapping panels (crazy jagged panel over another jagged panel), and all sorts of stuff I see in comics these days. To be honest, I find them distracting from the story.

Thanks Dr.

Thanks for the question, Lonrott!

Personally, I never use those jagged panel lines. I find them to be unnecessary and ultimately too distracting. I don't feel like I need to resort to such gimmicks to pull off exciting panels, and I think the look of those jagged panels make a page look dated. The 1990s are over. Time to move forward. I choose to rely on my compositions, line energy and figure drawing skills instead. I let my drawing ability speak for itself. That's just how I roll.

I would warn artists not to get too hung up on gimmicks and tricks. They can be very effective, but a lot of artists tend to over-use visual gimmicks. When they're over-used, the can become mundane, and they can cease to have impact. You also run the risk of creating confusing page layouts if you use too many gimmicks on a page. CLARITY has to be job number one. If you don't have that, you've failed as a sequential artist. A comic page that readers can't make heads or tails is rather worthless.

You have to know when and when not to use gimmicks on a comic page. When the story calls for something important or requiring impact, that's the time to consider them. If you're just drawing your hero jumping around in the city, you don't really need to pull out all the stops. A nice, sizable panel with a dynamic drawing of the character in action should suffice. You don't necessarily need to give the panel jagged borders, or an extreme POV shot, or to break the panel borders with the figure, or give the panel an extreme panel tilt. Restraint is often the better way to go. You should strive for exciting layouts, but manic, cluttered, busy panels and distracting page designs doesn't do your storytelling any favors.

A great way to design a page is to pick one panel out and make it your anchor panel (key panel) on the page. Generally, you want it to be the panel that's the most important. Make it the best panel on the page. It can be bigger than the other panels, but it doesn't have to be unrealistically large panel. You don't have to make it a half splash--just make it GOOD. Good drawing. You can choose to use a POV angle shot or use some other trick if you'd like, but make sure that it's a panel the reader will enjoy and remember. Make it a panel that adds impact to your story, or that enriches the visual storytelling. Make it the best panel on the page.

[Bruce Lee]

Thanks Loston. I think I'll do exactly as you suggested and look at how other story tellers go about doing their thing. I'm started to figure out that laying pencil to paper is the least of the work.

You might want to watch some old movies too. You can learn a lot from watching old movies and tv shows. Fun movies and Tv shows that I personally recommend for studying visual storytelling:

Tv shows: THE X-FILES, KOLCHAK, THE NIGHT STALKER, OUTER LIMITS, TWILIGHT ZONE, STAR TREK (original series)

Movies: THE THING FROM ANOTHER WORLD (1951), NOSFERATU (1922) CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON, DRACULA (1931), FRANKENSTEIN (1932), THE MUMMY (1932), BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN (1935), KING KONG (1933), CITIZEN KANE, PSYCHO, THE BIRDS, REAR WINDOW, NORTH BY NORTHWEST, ROPE, EARTH VS THE FLYING SAUCERS, THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL (1951), FORBIDDEN PLANET, WAR OF THE WORLDS (1953), THE CAT PEOPLE, CURSE OF THE CAT PEOPLE, NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD (1968), I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE, ISLE OF THE DEAD, THE OLD DARK HOUSE (1932), FREAKS (1932), FRITZ LANG'S METROPOLIS (1927), RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, THE ROCKETEER, BLADE RUNNER, JOHN CARPENTER'S THE THING (1982), THEM! (1954), THEY LIVE, BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA, CLASH OF THE TITANS (1981), EVIL DEAD II, THE WOLFMAN (1940), AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON, THE MALTESE FALCON, CASABLANCA, DOUBLE INDEMNITY, THE WOMAN IN THE WINDOW, LAURA, TOUCH OF EVIL, DARK PASSAGE, OUT OF THE PAST, FEAR IN THE NIGHT, KISS ME DEADLY, KEY LARGO, WHITE HEAT, THE BLUE DALIA, THE THIRD MAN, BULLIT, PLANET OF THE APES, O' BROTHER, WHERE ART THOU?, PULP FICTION...

[Bruce Lee]

Next question, please! Dr Stupid Jr is in. :)

[Jcatlett76]

Thanks for the movie list. I will re-watch those when I can. By the way, I never knew anyone else that's seem "The Thing From Another World". That's one of my favorites.

[Bruce Lee]

I am a big fan of that film, man. I have it on DVD.

[Jcatlett76]

I am a big fan of that film, man. I have it on DVD.

I have it to and I love it. I forgot to ask you, isn't "Dark Passage" the movie with Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall where he's an innocent man wrongly imprisoned who escapes and she finds him, helps him and falls in love with him? If that's the one, I love that movie! I won't spoil it for anyone but I really recommend it just for some darn good entertainment. It also stars one of my favorite radio actresses, Agnes Moorehead who became famous and Endora on the show "Bewitched".

Actually watched all of the Evil Dead movies & Bubba Ho-Tep within the last week. OzComics has a weekly drawing challenge on facebook and last week was "Army Of Darkness" in honor of Bruce Campbell so I was getting myself psyched up to do a few sketches of Ash.
I also watch all the Frankenstein movies including Bride of once a year along with Werewolf Of London and The Wolfman. Those movies have great cinematography.

Ok, enough of my dribble...you may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.