Shawn's Sketchbook [Archive]

spidey976

09-13-2007, 06:00 PM

Hey there folks I thought I would started on Pencil Jack about a month ago, and I have been trying to do a lot of studying. I have learned an aweful lot from the people I have talked to and by studying other threads. So I thought that I would start a sketch blog so I could ask for help and advice. Some of these pics are a little old ... and some of them are in sequence so people can see how I changed certain elements. I have learned by looking at those types of posts found on other threads ... so maybe someone looking at these posts might be helped as well.

So here is a quick pic of batman I did about a year and a half ago

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Batman.jpg

spidey976

09-13-2007, 06:02 PM

Here are a set of Superman sketches that I did. The first was about two years ago ... the second about a year and a half ago

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/superman2005final.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Supermanfinal.jpg

spidey976

09-13-2007, 06:05 PM

Here is a set of pics I did of the Hulk ... they are about 1 year old ... though I am working on a new one now ... and I have included a photo of it.

The World War Hulk Version is coming soon I just need to do some more anatomy improvements

Ther revised ... funky Anatomy version

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/HulkTouchUps.jpg

The moppy headed one

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/FirstHulkFirstFinal.jpg

spidey976

09-13-2007, 06:11 PM

The following are a few Sketches of Captain America.

The First two are old ones one with improved foreshortening on the hand on the first one.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/CaptainAmericaFinalB.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/CaptainAmericaFinal.jpg

spidey976

09-13-2007, 06:13 PM

A quick fastball special

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/WolverineWorkFinal.jpg

spidey976

09-13-2007, 06:17 PM

A few quick head studies ... trying out different styles and rendering
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/sketch2.jpg

A working sketch I started of the Justice League ... just before I joined Pencil Jack so I put them away for a little bit till I could work on my anatomy a bit. Also, I had to study dynamics a little more.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/sketch3.jpg

spidey976

09-13-2007, 06:21 PM

These are my sketches I did for my redesign of Captain America for JLFG's challenge ... followed by the final design. Oh ... and a Supes that was originally an anatomy study that I decided to render .. though he is a little thick.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/sketch10001.jpg

The final piece

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/NewCapFinalcopy.jpg

spidey976

09-13-2007, 06:39 PM

The following are some layouts ... and Anatomy studies I have been doing for another challenge ... I am really trying to work on more dynamic poses here ... but I really had to look at some anatomy and Layout references though one isn't available on line as far as I can find.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/sketch4.jpg

I referenced the Iron Man cover of Empire magazine for the Hulk pose in the bottom right hand corner.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/sketch5.jpg

I got a bit of the layout for this one of one of my sons pens that we bought him at SuperHeroes exhibit ... but I only looked at it a bit for the placement of the shoulders ... The anatomy I did using an anatomy website I found online thanks to a posting in the Tips and Tech section of the site. Also, I had previously seen a pic by JLFG that he did for the Hulk vs Wolverine draw-off, he sent it to me for some anatomical help ... so thanks JLFG

spidey976

09-13-2007, 06:47 PM

The following studies of Superman are some I am doing for the same challenge I am doing the Hulk for, and I haven't decided which basic pose I like the best.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/sketch6.jpg

The following was my first attempt at a straight on shot of Supes flying straight at the camera.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/sketch70001.jpg

This is my second take on it ... I have to admit that I asked Loston Wallace for a little help ... and I looked at his similar thumb nail for about 30 seconds ... and a pic that Jim Lee did for another 30 seconds. I wasn't looking at them when I did the pic though ... and I am much happier with it.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/sketch8.jpg

JimLeeforGod

09-14-2007, 01:54 AM

The Dark Knight looks pretty cool and Loving the fastball special.

Good to see ya taking Lostons advice.

Check out http://www.fineart.sk/index.php?cat=12
for some good studies on proportions.

Keep on posting dude, Its good to seeing you be so consitent :)

spidey976

09-14-2007, 07:00 PM

Thanks JLFG

I am looking to start posting here as often as I can ... especially since I might have trouble getting really finished pieces done ... being a new poppa and all. Though I have to say I am excited about drawing again ... for the first time in a long time. Honestly, when I first joined I took some of the posts about my Rob "Liefeld" like anatomy on the chin a bit. If you remember it was the World War Hulk piece I did awhile back that you commented on. However, when I look at the pieces that I have even just done rough sketches for since I joined PJ and started to try and study and hear the suggestions that people have made ... and well I already feel like some of them are a fair bit stronger ... and that makes me excited. So please keep critiquing and offering advice so that I can learn. Also, I have looked at Lomis ... thanks ... and I will keep checking it out.

Shawn

DogSoldier

09-15-2007, 07:20 PM

Hey spidey ,

I looked through your work here . You showed some good stuff with good points , i liked your redesign of Captain America the best . You also showed some of the same problems over and over .

Only my opinion , don't have to take any of my advice but......

What i would start working on is the shoulder location on the body . Seen it over and over in each pic your putting them out to far from the neck and chest and it's putting off the whole figure . Try doing some relaxed figures with arms just hanging and bring those shoulders in about one shoulder width, then under the arms is gonna come in abit also .

I think it would improve your work right away .

hope that helps ya out .

Clint.

sadman2000

09-15-2007, 09:07 PM

Agreed, You could really benefit from just stripping down to the bare essentials of art, don't worry about making that "awesome pose" or foreshortening. Just work on proportions on the figure in a static pose, while it may sound boring, It's a much faster to understand the way the human body is drawn compared to drawing action poses. :)

spidey976

09-16-2007, 07:39 AM

Thanks Dog and Sadman

Dog ... honestly please keep the tips/critiques coming ... I am here to learn. I am a, for the most part, a self trained artist, and know there are serious gaps in my skills and knowledge. I will be completely honest. When I first joined PJ a month ago I almost let my ego get in the way when people said I needed to study my anatomy more, but they were TOTALLY right. The studying I have been doing is the difference between the drawing of the old Captain America leaping and the Redesign I did (I think there is a big difference), which by I am glad that you liked it the best because it is my newest piece. The first finished piece since joining PJ. If I had let my ego get in the way ... well I wouldn't have made any progress ... and as I said above the progress is exciting for me. So PLEASE keep up the critiques.

Sadman I am going to be trying to study and work on your draw-off ... do a little of both ... lol ... and mainly look after the new baby ... :D. Please keep checking back .... I am looking forward to more constructive critisism.

Cheers

spidey976

09-21-2007, 11:54 AM

JimLeeforGod

09-21-2007, 03:38 PM

Its already looking better Spidey. Nice work.
I would go even further and maybe cut him
another 1/2 head from the sides.

The one you have right now will work well for
big strong characters. Superman, Thor, Captain
America depending on which style you go for.
But for normal figures you want to tone it down
more.

Its alot of progress in a short period of time so
keep it man.

I know it might be a little much right now but
think of the muscles not being seperate from each
other as blocks but entwining and layering on each
other. Connected underneath overlapping to give the
skeleton form. If you think of it that way it will look
more fluid.

Like I said you've got alot of great advice from people
so dont try to be too overwhlemed just put it in the
back of your mind, you dont have to practice them all
at once. Just keep practicing and it'll start clicking by
itself.

Look forward to seeing more :)

spidey976

09-21-2007, 04:46 PM

Thanks JLFG ... I am glad you think I have come a fair bit ... :D. I have learned SO much from peoples comments in the last month ... and by studying what other people are doing. I really appreciate the advice and I'll listen to it all ... and try to work on it a bit at a time ... and bring a little bit into each piece. As for the size ... well I was going for a Cap or Supes ... lol ... I did a more traditional sized quick sketch ... and I will see if I can get a scan up a little later ... but this is the one I kind of darkened up enough to scan ... the other one is very mini ... ;). Thanks for the comments JLFG.

sadman2000

09-21-2007, 06:50 PM

Hey Folks

Well ... I have barely any time to lay a line down this week ... but I did take Sadman's and Dogsoldier's advice ... and I did a very quick anatomy study ... taking in to acount their advice about the shoulders ... it isn't a really completed piece ... half the body isn't really around ... lol ... but I can really see what they were talking about ... so thanks guys ...comments???

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/sketch9.jpg

This is pretty good, I'd watch your upper torso area as said before. I'll give a few tips on proportions.

1. The waist always lines up with the upward angle of the chest muscles.

2. the head of the figure is 1/3 of the width of the shoulders.

3. the heighth of the chest muscles is equal to the heighth of the head.

I hope those help man.

Later,

sadman2000

spidey976

09-21-2007, 09:14 PM

Thanks Sadman ... I will keep those in mind ... :D

spidey976

09-24-2007, 07:19 PM

Hey guys

Thanks agian for all of your suggestions I think they are really helping with my new stuff. Here is a quick pic of something I am working on for the fav characters draw-off. I is a picture I took with my digital cam ... so it isn't he best quality.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/favcharacter.jpg

sadman2000

09-24-2007, 09:22 PM

JimLeeforGod

09-25-2007, 02:05 AM

Great improvement man, keep it up.
GL looks pretty cool, and spideys not bad either.
I would change up Hulk before you detail it the
foreshortening is off. I'll try to see if I can post
up something to help but its late so I might not
be able to get to it tonight.

JimLeeforGod

09-25-2007, 02:06 AM

Ohh one more thing,
You might want to use cylinders and simple shapes to
represent the limbs and body parts to make foreshortening
easier. Its the easiest way to fix most problems. I think
once you've got those basic mechanics out of the way
your style will really flourish.

spidey976

09-25-2007, 04:40 PM

Thanks guys

Yeah JLFG the moment I read your post I saw that problem ... also think i am going to tweak spidey's out stretched leg a bit ... and fix Hal's stumpy forarms ... just noticed them too... lol

spidey976

09-27-2007, 07:37 PM

sadman2000

09-27-2007, 07:56 PM

Hey Guys

Here is a quick update on the favourite character piece I am working on. I think I caught that foreshortening problem you were seeing JLFG ... tweaked spideys left foot ... Hals stumpy arms ... and redesigned the Hulks head completely and the character who is on his arm ... lol. Comments???

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/favcharacter2.jpg

It's looking good, still diggin' that GL. :cool:

Compositional speaking, before you get the characters too fleshed out, I'd move the character above Hulk to the left and have his arm between him and spidey, that would fix the tangent of Hulk's arm and that dudes hand.:)

spidey976

09-27-2007, 07:59 PM

Thanks Sadman

The character there is kind of using the Hulk's arm to help himself vault ... so I know it looks a little off ... i am still trying to get the look right though ... the arm is funky

JimLeeforGod

09-27-2007, 09:26 PM

Hey Shawn heres what I was talking about using simple
shapes to break down figures especially in foreshortening.
Just by using cylinders blocks and circles you can handle
all picture mechanics before you go into detail.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2707/spidey976favcharslayouteg3.jpg

It saves alot of time and simplifies things to make it more
easier to understand.

Ohhh and I fixed some issues that I thought there were. Like
the guy pole vaulting over Hulk, and The Hulks feet being cut off.
I darkened the hulks leg so you can see it wouldnt get distracting
from spideys figure in front of it only as a visual aid I dont really
thing you need to do that in the final.

Hope that was helpful :)

spidey976

09-28-2007, 07:48 AM

Hey JLFG ... thanks for that layout ... it looks great!! I have been trying to work with the cylinders a little more ... though I have to say i is good to see them applied to a piece that I am actually working on. I won't be able apply all of the changes before the deadline ... but I will keep them in mind for the future. The one thing I am leaving alone is the Hulks pose as he is driving his fist down into the ground ... it isn't obvious from the pic I took ... I am going to work it into the background so I hope that you like it when I am done. I just didn't want you to think I was ingoring your suggestions ... they are always well thoughtout and helpful ... so please keep it up.

Shawn

Dri

09-28-2007, 08:44 AM

I'm actually glad for you that you are keeping to your own vision and having the Hulk drive his fist to the ground. It's always helpful for people to share insights to how they would tackle your problem, but the best thing to do is to make your own mistakes through trial and error.

Your GL is looking decent and the Hulk looks like it's on it way but Spidey needs revising. Cylinders help with foreshortening. Also looking at other examples of other artist's work helps to problem solve.

This is a pretty rough overlay but try adjusting proportions so he doesn't look stumpy. Keep sketching and your proportions will improve.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r240/greendri/favcharacter2.jpg

spidey976

09-28-2007, 10:45 AM

Thanks Greendri

I am going to have to remember this advice in the future ... I have reworked the spidey ... and I can already see the difference. I will try to get a pic up soon ... but I want to finish up a little bit more of the Hulk first ... and start the mystery character in the top right ... lol. Thanks again greendri ..... and everyone else

spidey976

09-30-2007, 07:36 PM

Hey guys

Sorry no updates ... but i will have that completed piece up by tomorrow night ... I tought I would leave the second panel off the blog ... so as to surprise some people when they see the finished piece

cheers

spidey976

10-01-2007, 09:28 PM

Here is a quick updated Fav characters pencil ... i will try to post a little more on it tomorrow ... getting late ... comments TOTALLY welcome ... hope you like the mystery guests ... lol

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/FavCharacterfinal1-1.jpg

JimLeeforGod

10-01-2007, 11:20 PM

nice work shawn, some of your best stuff to date.

Dri

10-02-2007, 12:24 AM

That's pretty ambitious, Shawn. I think the lighting and composition are pretty good. Just work on your construction of anatomy more. It's hard to get foreshortening to look right. I suggest using an action figure or a little wooden model to help you out in that regard. It'll look like what JFLG did with his overlay. If you used that with a digital camera as some reference it may improve your work a little bit more. This shows you have the imagination. Now to get your technical skills to match that imagination and you'll be sweet. Good effort, man.

spidey976

10-02-2007, 10:23 AM

Thanks Guys

Yeah this piece was actually a little to much for me. Originally I was only going to have 4 characters ... Hulk, Batman, Superman, and Spiderman ... but after I started the layout I just couldn't get four of them in ... and be happy with the look of it. So I decided to do a double page spread ... and then I added the Flash,Cap,GL, and Wolverine. I am really happy with the way it turned out ... but I can see the technical issues that you are referring to Greendri. This is the most dynamic piece I have ever done ... and I am looking forward to doing a lot more dynamic poses. I do have to get my anatomy more down though ... so thanks for all of the help and the tips. I can't wait to learn more and improve. Though maybe fewer characters .. lol ... I ran out of time... :D

spidey976

10-03-2007, 06:30 PM

Hey Guys

I am just wondering what you think about me trying to build my own light table ... comments?? thoughts?? I am a little handy ... and I think it may help my work ... as I would be able to transfer roughs onto board straight away. If anyone knows of a good link ... could you post it here. thanks for reading ... :D

Dri

10-03-2007, 08:22 PM

http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77016.

Shawn, if you have questions on anything do a search using your PJ controls. It's the sixth option up the top of your screen if you are logged in. It has almost everything you need.

spidey976

10-03-2007, 08:28 PM

LOL thanks greendri ... guess I am still showing my newbeeness sometimes ... lol

Mase

10-04-2007, 01:52 PM

That last piece is a big improvement - your anatomy has progressed a lot.

spidey976

10-04-2007, 02:58 PM

Thanks Mase ... I have really been working on it ... and I have had a lot of help from people here ... this is an amazing site. My goal is to get more dynamic ... and to improve ... and some day be a pressence in the drawoffs ... lol ... joke. I will be posting more stuff in the future so please come back and check it out I love critiques and comments.

spidey976

10-15-2007, 09:44 PM

spidey976

10-20-2007, 07:16 PM

Hey Guys ... well here is my entry for the Batman vs Joker drawoff... I may go back and tweak it a bit ... my son wants it up in his room ... hence the vailed implication that the Joker has just offed Harley. I think I may go back and add some backgrounds to this a little later ... but I just ran out of time for the drawoff ... oh and I think the foreshortening is off ... any suggestions would be welcome.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/batmanjokefinasmallerl.jpg

P.S. Again I am having some trouble with my scanner hence the the dark spots and the slight jog in Harleys Cuffs.

JimLeeforGod

10-21-2007, 03:30 PM

I really like you did the Joker Shawn, it has alot of personality
for the character.
Batman seems a little short here (just a bit) I think if you
mesured it with his head it should help. He dosent have a
neck too so it might be making it look that way.
If you take the line that is running down the middle of his chest
like you have and run it at that same angle it should run down
the middle of his face too. That would align his head to the middle
of his shoulders and help with placing the neck.

Batmans right arm has a little foreshortening tweaking needed.
And his cape is to short for him. I think you can double the size
of it really expanding it and covering alot of the white spots
which should really help with the composition.

I think the drawoff date is extended again so you should have
time to finish and teak it up especially since knowing Bobby
he probably hasnt started his yet ;)

But all in all really good and like I mentioned before its keeps
getting better man :)

spidey976

10-21-2007, 06:39 PM

Hey JLFG

Thanks for the comments ... and I am glad you think I am getting better. I am going to go back and make a few changes ... but it may take a few days ... so probably not before the drawoff is posted. I was trying a couple of things with this one ... the shorter cape being on of them ... and they didn't work so well. So I will try to get an edited version for your perusal up in a bit ... :D.

sadman2000

10-24-2007, 09:25 PM

Well here is my first new piece for a few weeks ... it is my entry for the "Your Initiative Draw-Off". It is kind of an Anti-Initiative though ... lol.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/InitiativeFinal.jpg

Starting top row left to right (The Hulk, Age of Apocalypse Colossus); second row (Deaths Head II, Death Lock), and down in front Patch/Aka Wolverine.

This group is kind of an Anti-Initiative in terms of what there attitudes are, but I choose them because they would be one of the most deadly groups you could have for tracking down superheroes. The Hulk and the Apocalypse Colossus for their strength and because they are both unhinged ... lol. Deaths Head II (A Marvel UK character) and DeathLock because they are futuristic bounty hunters and they are good trackers. Finally, Patch simply because he is such a Bad A@@ ... lol. Hope you enjoy.

I really only used two references. A back anatomy reference posted by Spawn SC in the muscle sketch group in the tips and techniques section of the site ( http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80565 ), and a mini bust of Deathlock that a buddy of mine has in his shop though it is a slightly different basic design then the one I did, and a slightly differenct pose ( http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ambiances.fr/photos/products/thumb/365_100_100.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ambiances.fr/index.php%3FcatID%3D19&h=100&w=94&sz=3&hl=en&start=30&tbnid=LcgNYx0ZTNBwYM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=77&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddeathlock%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%26nd sp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)

As always I would love some comments and critiques... they are the best way to learn.

"Initiate this!" priceless. very nice bad@$$ wolvie line there. For the critique, you seem to really struggle with the structure of the human body i.e. the the underlying basic forms and shapes that build the foundation of every drawing, painting or work of art. Right now I'd recommend stripping down to the bare essentials, details are fun and all, but they mean nothing without the proper foundation to put them on. I'd suggest every time you sit down and draw before you do anything get a sheet or two of paper and practice the basic forms of the figure; don't go into too much detail if any and set a time limit for each sheet you draw on. Try to get as many figures as you can on to each page in the given time frame (say 30 to 45 minutes). It's a good exersise that not only get's you warmed up to draw, it also helps you learn.

later,

sadman2000

spidey976

10-25-2007, 05:35 PM

Hey Sadman

Thanks for the critique ... I was just wondering if there is a particular body area that you think I need to work on m8 ... and on a particular character??? Any help would be appreciated.

sadman2000

10-25-2007, 09:18 PM

Hey Sadman

Thanks for the critique ... I was just wondering if there is a particular body area that you think I need to work on m8 ... and on a particular character??? Any help would be appreciated.

I wasn't refering to any particular drawing, my crit was just a general statment about your work. But as far as an exact area, I'd suggest you crack down on the torso.

Later,

sadman2000

spidey976

10-28-2007, 08:17 PM

Hey Folks

Well I have only had a few minutes to sketch ... but I decided to do a couple of quick head studies for the Death of Superman Draw-Off ... I am trying something new with my style ... leaving it a little less cluttered with detail (i.e. full cheek bones). I am kind of weirded out by how much my style has changed since joining PJ ... lol ... there are some Supes head studies back on page 1 of my blog ... and they look totally different ... and they are from only four months ago.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Supeshead.jpg

gmags

10-29-2007, 05:08 PM

Hey Spidey!!! Nice pencils here!! There is nothing like drawing super heroes. Great to see u draw my fav heroes. U got mad skillz bro!! Will keep checkin your stuff out. :)

spidey976

10-29-2007, 08:20 PM

Hey Spidey!!! Nice pencils here!! There is nothing like drawing super heroes. Great to see u draw my fav heroes. U got mad skillz bro!! Will keep checkin your stuff out. :)

Thanks gmags ... I am glad that you like my stuff ... I am going to keep working at it ... I enjoy looking back at my old stuff and seeing what has changed ... even if it is weird ... lol

Bruce Lee

10-29-2007, 09:30 PM

Spidey,

It's really great to see you making some progress with your anatomy and proportions. Whenever you can, I recommend drawing from life. Nothing will teach you more about drawing people than lifedrawing.

Next to that, invest in some good "how-to" and anatomy books. A great book you might want to get is Jack Hamm's DRAWING THE HEAD AND FIGURE. Next to the Andrew Loomis book, FIGURE DRAWING FOR ALL IT'S WORTH, this is the best "how-to" art book on the market. It costs under $12 (usually under $10!), and is chocked full of anatomy tips and secrets. Better bookstores typically carry this book in their "art" sections, but you can find it on Amazon.com here:
http://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Head-Figure-Jack-Hamm/dp/0399507914/ref=sr_1_1/103-6525213-6147832?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193714736&sr=8-1

I highly recommend purchasing a copy. This book is one of the books that really delivers the information.

Keep up the good work! You're making headway!

Loston

spidey976

10-30-2007, 04:21 PM

Hey Loston

Thanks for the compliments ... I have a lot that I have to do in terms of learning more of the basics ... but I am going to just keep on pushing through ... I love improving ... it makes me feel great to hear both the compliments and the critiques ... it shows me where I need to go ... :D

Bruce Lee

10-30-2007, 04:44 PM

Shawn, start training your brain to become more observant of the world around you. When you're around people sitting down, take note of how their clothing wrinkles up as they sit and talk. When you watch movies, pay attention to the lighting, camera angles, etc. Now's the time to start exercising your brain for the betterment of your art.

Loston

spidey976

10-30-2007, 06:39 PM

Lol... Loston ... I have just started doing that a lot more ... I wish I had more time to sketch what I see ....but I am going to be doing more ... and take more photos.

Loston thanks for your input ... I really appreciate it ... please keep it coming.

P.S. I have to admit the paying attention thing has been very new for me ... I have been paying special attention to some of my sons DC cartoons ... lol

spidey976

11-03-2007, 12:10 PM

Hey guys ... here is a quick head study for a redesign I am working on for the Death of Superman drawoff.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Doomhead.jpg

I'll be honest I have never been the biggest fan of the original Doomsday design ... and covering the eyes is odd to me. So I thought I would try something a little different. I tried to combine some of the animated designs with the old one .... so this is what I could come up with in about 30 minutes

I hope to start posting a few more anatomy reference pages soon. I picked up a new reference Drawing The Human Body: An Anatomical Guide Author: Giovanni Civardi. It is a life drawing book wih a lot of references to muscle morphology. I think it will be a good reference source.

P.S. Loston I picked up Hamms book years ago ... I just can't find it right now ... lol

spidey976

11-03-2007, 07:17 PM

Hey there guys

Here are a couple of Anatomy studies I did using the new reference I mentioned above. C&C totally welcome ... I think they look a little better then my usual fair ... lol. This reference thing is neat ... things look better when you take 20 minutes if you can look at a ref ... lol.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Anatomyroughs1.jpg

P.S. The reference was pretty photo realistic ... so I simplified it a little bit ... and tried to throw in my own style ... :D

antquinonez

11-03-2007, 10:15 PM

spidey976

11-03-2007, 11:49 PM

Spidey, i think the ref stuff is a good idea. longer planned out lines are good too. i like more confident lines that go from point a to point b without halting, going, halting...

i'd get some athletic mags and work out the muscles from them--i think they're better than comics for that. drawing from comics can give you ideas for how to solve drawing issues, but real knowledge of anatomy comes from drawing from life/photos.

still, any focused copying is going to help out.

some ideas: block out proportions (part of planning) before you start commiting some hard lines.

Thanks for the C&C antquinonez. The stop and go lines is something I am trying. I have seen it done by many an artist ... and I have been feeling that some of my stuff is OVER defined. So I thought I would try something ... though it is a little harder when you don't render it completely ... lol. As for the athletics magazines ... I will keep looking at them from time to time ... I haven't found one I like the best. Do you have any suggestions for one that has great pics?? Once again ... thanks for dropping by ... :D

spidey976

11-04-2007, 06:39 PM

Another quick anatomy reference ... I am going to try to do one every couple of days at least ... and try not to take more then 20 minutes to do it. C&C welcome.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Anatomyroughs2.jpg

Dri

11-04-2007, 07:38 PM

Another quick anatomy reference ... I am going to try to do one every couple of days at least ... and try not to take more then 20 minutes to do it. C&C welcome.

It's good to see you are getting the idea of someone. I wonder who that be? :) Slow down, Shawn. As good as it may be to put a time limit on your working process, speed will come eventually. Right now focus on proportions and the 'right' muscle groups before you stylize.

People give Christopher Hart books a lot of flak but 'Cutting Edge Anatomy' offers some decent insights into what you are looking for. I downloaded a pdf from a torrent site along with many other tutorials so it's always helpful to search on the net. If you are happy with it, definitely buy a copy. Personally I think it's a sound investment.

That said, your past referenced drawings don't look referenced. Use a blue pencil or a 6H pencil to build the structure of your work to nail proportions right. Better still is check out what Frito does using photoreference. You don't have to be a slave to it. Use shapes to work out your forms.

Hope that helps a little.

Dri

spidey976

11-05-2007, 06:41 AM

LOL ... greendri ... part of the reason I am keeping them to 20 minutes is to just keep drawing ... and that is about the amount of time that I have available ... unless I am doing a drawoff piece ... lol. I will definetly be slowing down for the drawoffs. As for them not looking like a reference ... well they are kind of "Franken" references with some of the parts changed a little and more melded with my own kind of style. Now before you say ... is your style bad proportions ... and you would be right ... lol ... I drew the second one while holding my newborn baby boy ... and the first two while he took a 20 minute cat nap. I will do better on the proportions ... promise ... I am just enjoying getting some stuff out that doesn't look like doggy dodo ... lol ... and I think they look more powerful then anything else I have done for the most part. Oh ... I will do some life drawing and post it here soon, and I would appreciate it if you could possibly PM the address to that anatomy reference you mentioned.

Cheers

P.S. Frito ... FRITO .... dude the guy does AMAZING life drawing ... I will try ... but not going to get to that point for a LONG while ... lol.

spidey976

11-05-2007, 08:35 AM

LOL ... okay .. I just read my last post ... and it reads like a huge number of EXCUSES ... lol. I should add ... Thanks for the C&C ... I will aim to get better .. and thank you for all of your help.

Shawn

Dri

11-05-2007, 08:43 AM

Your stuff doesn't look bad. I like the energy that you give your work.I hope you didn't get that impression by my post. If you holding your baby just draw very loosely. Even draw your boy. That gives you practice and helps you to really observe things. Not as how you think it is but how it presents itself in the physical world.

May sound corny but I think you can find a balance because the subject matter is interesting and in front of you at the same time. That will definitely help you to speed up and reinforce your visual memory because you have to get your marks on the page quickly before he moves.

Life drawing reference can be done well by people if they really wanted to. Best book I stumbled upon was 'Drawing from the artist Within' by Betty Edwards. As for the address on the anatomy books you can find anything with google. All you need is a bittorrent program and type the titles I mentioned including the word 'torrent'. It's that easy. You should find heaps of sources.

Sorry i can't provide it you any addresses but I got the files a while ago and I got so many of them from p2p programs that I no longer use. Trust me, I'm no computer wiz and it can be found.

Dri

spidey976

11-05-2007, 01:23 PM

Hey Greendri ... sorry m8 ... I don't think that you hate my stuff ... or that you think it is bad ... and I am a little sorry that that first post came across a little defensive ... and I wasn't trying to whine ... though that might have been how it came across ... hence the second .. and now third posts. Honestly ... without help from the guys here ... yourself, JLFG, Sadman, Loston, ant, and the list is longer but I gotta go soon ... ;) ... I wouldn't be improving ... I wouldn't know what to look at ... and where to find what I need. I guess I just don't want people to think that I am not listening ... or that I am lazy ... so I kind of justified it ... though again it came across as excuses. So sorry about that ... no more whinning ... and new art soon ... :D. Thanks again m8 ... your C&C is appreciated

spidey976

11-06-2007, 07:06 PM

Hey guys ... here is a quick layout and anatomy study ... C&C welcome

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Layoutrough1.jpg

JimLeeforGod

11-06-2007, 11:38 PM

I'm liking the anatomy studies Shawn. Keep that up.
Make sure you start thinking of them entwining and not as
seperate pieces like the six pack. Abdominals is something I
think you should take a more look at. See if you can find some
martial arts shirtless referance poses (gymnastics works well
too) and draw from them, get the abdominals bending to really
give you a feel of whats going on in there. They will add more
life to the pic.

Also try layout the spine of the character. Work with the stick
like figures to get the bend/fluidity of the human body.
It should help loosen you up and your pictures. I try to do lots
of these practices, I dont post them up because theyre just
too many, but they have helped me a great deal. I've got an
extremely busy week so I wont be able to check this site for
a few days but I hope to post up more pics so you can take a
look at what I mean.

Good stuff man keep em coming :)

antquinonez

11-07-2007, 01:02 AM

suggestion: take your time and actually think hard about what you're drawing. i know for myself, that I only grow when i slow down and analyze the next line/step. I think some of your work is rushed.

earlier you asked me, about a magazine. try 'men's health magazine' or something with naturally proportioned bodies. i think you'd also benefit from a how to draw book that exposes you to different drawing techniques and mindsets. keep exploring.

spidey976

11-07-2007, 07:44 PM

Hey Guys

Thanks JLFG and Ant ... thanks for the C&C. I will work on those things ... and keep working on everything.

So here is a quick headstudy for an up coming Draw-Off ... hmmm ... who could it be ... lol

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/dbzheadstudy.jpg

JimLeeforGod

11-07-2007, 08:41 PM

Yeah antquinonez is right about the taking your time thing.
Sometimes I spent an hour or two just on thumbs to get a
picture that I am satisfied to draw. Then work on the structure
then go back and do details. It takes a while to actually get
something done. I recently goofed and rushed the sexy chick
drawoff and look at all the mistakes that happened. Quick pics
are fun but if you want to produce quality work its best to really
spend time on something.

Again this is all just advice and suggestions. In reality things that
have worked for me, might not work for you and things that work
for you might not for me. You have to find your own voice and go
with it.

Hmmm ok I need a corny line here.....Follow your heart and
you shall succeed! ....there thatll do :D

Anyways thats enough C&C, lets get to the good stuff :)
I want to thank you for keeping at it and taking crits well.
Its nice to have someone whos passionate and keeps doing
his best to progress and listen to other peoples advice. You'll
go far because you can do that :)

spidey976

11-08-2007, 06:43 AM

Yeah antquinonez is right about the taking your time thing. Quick pics
are fun but if you want to produce quality work its best to really spend time on something.
...

Anyways thats enough C&C, lets get to the good stuff :)
I want to thank you for keeping at it and taking crits well.
Its nice to have someone whos passionate and keeps doing
his best to progress and listen to other peoples advice. You'll
go far because you can do that :)

Thanks JLFG ... honestly I am actually doing some quick studies so that I work out the kinks when it comes to some more finished pieces ... but I will taking more time with some of my pics. Honestly I have run out of time on some of the drawoffs ... and when I looked back at it ... I was really dissapointed with the Batman Vs Joker pic. Also ... if you are going to compliment me on taking advice ... then I have to thank you for giving it, and being kind about the fact that sometimes it takes me a little bit of time to take all of your suggestions into account ... and not getting ticked if I seem to ignore them ... I was accused of "ignoring" advice in another thread awhile back. Okay ... going to stop now ... before I have to sing Kumbiya or something. Thanks for the comments m8 ... and I am looking forward to seeing some of your new stuff especially if you get in on the DBZ drawoff ...and the Supes one ... :D

spidey976

11-10-2007, 11:14 PM

So guys here is something I thought I would try ... the progression of a piece ... though somewhat spotty ... because I didn't get the idea until I was well underway with the second stage so there are only really four pics ... and two are up here already ... but I thought it would be cool to show some of my process ... and get feed back incase I am doing something off.

Stage one ... the rough layout

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Layoutrough1.jpg

I took a little bit of time with this ... and roughed out my piece. I am glad I did ... because even though I liked the general layout ... I was finding I was running out of room for certain things ... and I didn't totally like the anatomy on Gogeta.

Second Stage a quick head shot

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/dbzheadstudy.jpg

ummmm ... duhhhh ... had never drawn him before so I thought this might be a good step

Stage 3: Revised layout

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/dragonprelim.jpg

By this time I had light boxed (and by that I mean my sons $11 Sponge Bob tracing box ... lol). The main chages are I lifted Gogeta up in the frame closer to the top ... and dropped Vegeta and Goku down in the frame. I have added Vegito and SS2 Gogeta in the bottom corners. Sorry there is some rendering here ... but again the idea came late.

spidey976

11-10-2007, 11:15 PM

Stage 4: The Final Piece

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/dragonfinal.jpg

Well this is it ... my final entry. I may go back in the future and do some minor clean ups with rendering but this is it.

Update: The whole purpose of doing this was ... well I have been bugging guys to see their process ... so I thought it was time to put up or shut up ... :D

Keith

11-15-2007, 02:15 AM

I'll ditto what ant, JLFG and others said and just say slow down and try to visualize what you want to do before putting it on paper. A lot of times for a successful drawing you have to keep doing thumb after thumb, sketch after sketch, etc. to get good results. Your lines aren't too bad, but you still have a ways to go, life drawing would help you out a lot.

spidey976

11-15-2007, 10:30 AM

Hey Keith thanks for the C&C ... and ... LOL ... Keith I have a LONG way to go ... LOL. I know I have to slow down ... and it isn't just the finished piece. I need to slow down and develop my skills more. I know I could take a break ... develop ... and then repost ... and maybe it is what I should do before I jump in on these drawoffs ... but I am finding all of the C&C are helping me SO much. I feel I have improved alot just since I started posting ... so I am going to keep it up ... and take my lumps. As for visualization ... I did do a lot before I layed this piece out ... but I didn't do as many thumbs as maybe I should. As for the drawing from life ... you and a few others ... Sad, Loston, Greendri, JLFG ... all hit that one on the head ... and I am about to start drawing from a lot more photo references and posting them here. In fact I just picked up Comic Artist's Photo Reference: People and Poses (Comic Artists Reference) ~ Buddy Scalera . It is a reference book with real people ... and lots of photos ... and a CD with a lot more images on it. It is designed for comic book artists. It is a little limited ... but I know it will be a good tool for me. Here is a quick link to some of the pages http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1581807589/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-8680914-2898331#reader-link.

Again Keith ... thanks for the C&C ... and please keep it coming.

Shawn

antquinonez

11-15-2007, 12:58 PM

the DBZ drawing is tighter than what you've shown, spidey. you're pushing yourself. thats cool. while drawing from photo ref/life is important, try picking up a life-drawing/anatomy book to give you ideas about how to think about what you're drawing--helps you decipher what you're looking at in a photo, for example. I recommend bridgeman books for the style and quality of the anatomy--comic bookish, without trying to be. i think it helps to understand at some level the major pieces of the human body.

Bruce Lee

11-15-2007, 06:56 PM

One of my favorite anatomy books is a lesser known book called,
THE HUMAN FIGURE, AN ANATOMY FOR ARTISTS, by David K. Rubins. The Bridgeman book is great--it's a personal favorite of mine-- but the anatomy drawings in the Bridgeman book are a little stylized. THE HUMAN FIGURE book might be a better alternative. It's not an expensive book, and Amazon.com has it for just over $10, and I highly recommend it:

http://www.amazon.com/Human-Figure-Anatomy-Artists/dp/0140042431/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195178157&sr=8-1

Loston

spidey976

11-15-2007, 07:48 PM

Hey Guys thanks for the C&C

Ant: dude this is the second time I have responded to this one ... I deleted the other one mid post ... lol. I am glad that you think this is more solid ... and yeah I really am pushing myself. I know that maybe I should be learning to walk before I try to run ... but I want to post in the draw offs ... and so I don't play it safe ... and I learn more and more each time. So a little walking ... some running ... some face plants ... ;) ... it is all good

Loston: thanks for the reference ... maybe I will pic them both up ... :) ... can never have to many ref books ... so when are you going to do one I can pick up ... ;).

Thanks again guys ... please keep it coming

Some life drawing ... roughs at least ... coming soon

Shawn

spidey976

11-17-2007, 07:49 AM

Okay guys ... here are my first two life studies ... ever. I used my new photo reference book for these and I tried to take my time ... while still have some loose lines. Build the strucker up with a 2H pencil ... and then laid down the darker outline. I know there is some serious force perspective going on ... but I wanted to work on the shoulder/chest/neck interfaces a bit ... and I thought these were pretty good photos for it. I am sorry that i can't post the original photos because of copyright. I know they aren't perfect ... but I like them so far .. so good.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/LifeStudies1.jpg

As for all of you folks that have been recommending I study life and it has taken me this long to get off my butt and do it .... you were right ... I was slow ... and a bit lazy .... you right ... me wrong. Thanks for the patience folks.

C&C welcome

antquinonez

11-17-2007, 11:02 AM

yep the perspective in the photo ref's going to give you problems. i found that out for myself when i started using photos 2 years back. you really do need to try doing some copies and learning from artists' figure drawings. i think the photo ref stuff is good for showing you poses and ideas and reminding/teaching you about how muscles move, but it doesn't guide you in how to think about the body/muscles drawing-wise. i'm definately going to be going through this study myself. it gives me fits when i can't be confident about what i'm drawing.

spidey976

11-18-2007, 06:14 AM

Thanks for the C&C Ant. Honest I am also finding it hard to make the muscles look like they actually have form ... and are solid objects. When we draw it is suppose to be an immitation of life ... at least to some degree ... and I having trouble with that solid feeling my work should have. With that being said ... looking a the rough life drawings gives me a bit of hope ... as I think ... for the first time I might be able o ge that solid feeling with consistently. Don't get me wrong ... I am proud of the work I have been doing since I joined PJ .... I just want to keep working to the next level. Including picking up Bridgeman, Rubins, and maybe some Hogarths.

Thanks again for comments Ant

Shawn

P.S. Ant was the Bridgeman's book you were talking about the life drawing book ... or did he do an anatomy one as well??? I have been looking for it.

antquinonez

11-18-2007, 09:40 AM

i have two bridgman (correct spelling) books. you may find them in other editions.

one is a 'life drawing'. the other is 'constructive anatomy' (more helpful to me. there'sa a 'complete' edition, too, which i don't own:

http://www.amazon.com/Bridgmans-Complete-Guide-Drawing-Life/dp/0806930152/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195403792&sr=8-1

cheap at 13 books.

spidey976

11-18-2007, 10:51 AM

Ant ... if you don't mind me asking which one is more helpful ... the anatomy ... or the life drawing???

antquinonez

11-18-2007, 11:23 AM

yeah. thats the worst sentence i ever wrote. i like 'constructive anatomy'.

JimLeeforGod

11-18-2007, 12:43 PM

I think your trying to define the body too much.
It looks like your using bodybuilder referances. Its easier
to use some life referances of martial artists it'll give ya better
look. and make your pictures more fluid and real looking.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/LifeStudies1.jpg

Look at your picture on the right and see how you drew his
arm. The muscles on it arent seperated completely by lines so
they dont look indivual but seem like they are underneath the
skin, good job on that keep it like that.

Your anatomy is getting better but I think the main thing you
should look at right now is figure work. Really get your figures
more of a natural feel. Anatomy is something no one can
completely know perfectly but know just enough to fake it well,
so dont worry about complete perfection just try to keep
building up on it. It'll take time but you'll get a hand on it.

Try working the figure using a loose pencil grip like the one
image posted here. It'll make you draw from the elbow and
helps make the figure more natural. Give it a shot, it makes a
big difference.
http://www.bluepiranha.com/projects/grip_for_loose.jpg

Keep using life referances and try to do a like 10 a day of
quick five minute sketches every day. It will just help you get
the general form. It will help your anatomy too.

I know it seems like its overwhelming all the different studies
but it'll pay massive dividends later. Alright dude. I'll end it
like I always do, keep that pencil moving. :)

JimLeeforGod

11-18-2007, 12:58 PM

Bridgams is a little complicated and hard to follow for me.
If your looking for a really easy to follow well written book.
I would suggest, Andrew Loomis Figure drawing for all its
worth. Its the main reason for all my improvements over the
year.

Here is a free pdf link to the book.
http://placidchaos.com/AM/index.php?blog=1&title=andrew_loomis&page=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1&disp=single
(thank you to bryan Werner for the link.)

antquinonez

11-18-2007, 01:47 PM

oh, i don't read the bridgman stuff, i just like the pictures-- you know like comic books.

spidey976

11-18-2007, 03:35 PM

Thanks guys

JLFG> lol ... man I knew someone was going to catch that I overdefined some of the muscles ... lol. I just wanted to show the entire shape for future reference. As for the arm you liked ... I intentionally did that ... lol... wanted to see it done more with my own personal style. As for Loomis ... well I just went and got those files ... there is only like 400 pages in the ones I downloaded ... light reading ... lol. Thanks m8 ... I will keep working on it ... though I won't be posting for about a week or so.

Ant... I will see what I can find with Brigman thanks m8

Dri

11-18-2007, 04:28 PM

Shawn

Keep it simple. I think with too much advice a person can get really lost. Problem is that you are jumping straight to the advanced side of things.

A few budding artists I've come across left foreshortening to the last or found it very had to come to terms with, even when there's a model in front of them. Buy Betty Edwards books 'drawing from the within' and 'drawing with the right side of the brain' so you get out of the habit of drawing what your mind tells you.

Drawing from reference is not the same as constructing anatomy in your mind. The reason why your two figures aren't convincing is that you are constructing what you see in your mind. For exercise like drawing from photos recognize negative spaces.

Also drawing from photos is not drawing from life. From photos you are drawing from a 2d image. There's no shame having a small mannequin or action figure to learn how to draw forms of instead.

Our general drawing teacher (ex Disney artist) told us to draw shapes all the time. Whether it be spheres, cylinders or cubes, you'll get used to crafting forms. JLFG is right. Andrew Loomis is your best bet to learn anatomy as a process.

If you want crits it's also best to post your reference if possible so other PJers can see what you are having trouble with. This is a guess of what you tackled. Tried to show the shapes reinforced in books like 'How to draw the marvel way'.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r240/greendri/600-Shawnfig-1.jpg

sadman2000

11-18-2007, 04:34 PM

Your photo refed stuff is looking pretty good, your well on your way to a better understanding of the human form. All that really left is to refine your technique and commit it to memory. And believe me when I say that's easier said than done. ;)

spidey976

11-18-2007, 05:11 PM

Hey guys

Greendri> I am working on it m8 ... and yeah there are a lot of things that I am trying to tackle all at once ... partially because I have a lot of catching up to do ... and for the first time in like 10 years I am excited ... :D. The photo reference thing is totally new for me ... I will keep going ... and use Loomis ... and others to help fill in the blanks. I know I tackled a little more then I could chew with the foreshortening... but you know me ... why do simple when you can tackle complicated ... lol. Also, as I said a little while back I was trying to work on the neck/should/chest interfaces ... and I liked the pics. Unfortunately I can't post the pics. They are totally copyrighted and out of the photoreference book I mentioned above ... the book has over 1000 posses ... and I like it ... though it is a little stiff. Thanks for the drawings ... I want to see those types of drawings ... I did a few of those ... and then I drew over them.

Sadman> Thanks Sad ... I have been working on it. I have a good memory ... lol. However I still have tones of technique and reference work left to do. Including about 1000 life drawing references ... plus I haven't even started working on women yet ... and I have NEvER been good at them ... lol

Dri

11-19-2007, 02:17 AM

http://www.buddyscalera.com/comic_artist_photo_reference/interiorgallery/images/scalera_photoref_sample1.jpg

This what you can't post?

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/LifeStudies1.jpg

spidey976

11-19-2007, 08:02 AM

Yeppers ... lol ... you found it .. thanks m8 ... at least for the right hand piece. As for the left hand one it comes on a CD with the book ... and I don't think those posses are on the net. If they are I don't know where to find them. So okay guys ... Greendri found it ... tear me up ... aka help me out ... :D.

ntholdenuk

11-19-2007, 09:24 AM

spidey976

11-19-2007, 04:12 PM

You've been fooling me. . you kidded on that you were learning like me and then i come here and see all this quality artwork. Dude I feel cheated. . . Hehehehe
Love this sketch blog. your stuff has come on leaps and bounds since you started it. I hope i can keep up.

LOL ... I am still very much a beginner ... and I intend to keep moving the bar higher ... lol ... but I am sure you can keep up.

Cheers m8

I will be watching your thread ... ;)

spidey976

11-23-2007, 10:30 AM

LOL ... okay ... of course that was a joke ... don't shoot me ... lol. Okay so here is another photo reference shot that I did. I apologize for the quality of the scan ... one cropped foot ... one twinned foot ... my scanner is a little possesed.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Lifestudy3.jpg

By the way I used both my photoreference book ... and a little Loomis to help me out. C&C welcome ... encouraged ... begged for ... lol

spidey976

11-23-2007, 10:33 AM

Okay ... I drew this one for my son ... I decided to throw it in too. I used a how to draw Pooh and Friends book for this one ... my wife bought it and said ... DRAW POOH for the baby ... lol

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/WinniethePooh0003.jpg

Enjoy

ntholdenuk

11-26-2007, 03:20 AM

Must be a wife thing dude.
Mines wants me to paint Pooh and all his friends on the walls of the nursery. I don't think she know how long it would take me. Surely I can just buy Pooh wallpaper??

Anyway loving this thread. I got the Buddy Scalera book too. looked at it a couple of time but not used it yet. Need to remedy that.

spidey976

11-26-2007, 09:14 PM

Thanks Nth ... I am still really working on it ... but most of my time has recentlly been spent working on my Death of Superman piece. In fact I have been working that a piece that isn't a total photo reference ... which is a bit trickier ... lol

spidey976

12-03-2007, 08:21 PM

Hey guys here is my most recent (almost) finished piece for the Death of Superman draw-off. I will be posting a progression a little later. Cheers guys. Oh and C&C welcome.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/DeathofSupermanFinal-1.jpg

ntholdenuk

12-04-2007, 03:12 AM

Hey, you get that stiffness thing too. he he
This is a nice composition. Only thing I'd change is maybe have one of Doomsday's legs point in the direction of Superman emphasizing the direction he's coming from.
You'll need to do something with superman's crotch area and left thigh as the both appear huge(although I'm sure Lois is loving that).

All in all this has some real nice qualities. Keep going dude.

spidey976

12-04-2007, 10:32 AM

Hey Nth

Good points man ... I am still working on EVERYTHING you just talked about. I think I may go back and tweak Doomsdays right leg to take into acount yoru suggestion ... though I am a little wary of smugging the heck out of the thing so I will be careful. Also, the proportions on Supes legs should be tweaked ... so I will see what I can do. I think I am going to put this piece aside for a bit ... and just not work on it for a bit. Actually this was a fairly big project for me ... it is a double page spread ... and I tried to put everything I have learned into it ... so I am happy with most of it so far ... but I need to look at some references and practice my backgrounds and textures. To be honest ... I think this is my last "finished" piece for a bit ... and my last drawoff piece for awhile. I have some new resources to study from so I am going to be putting the time into studies ... but lots of them. I need to combat that "stiffness" problem ... and I don't think that will happen if I am putting all of my time into drawoffs or finished pencils.

Thanks for the C&C m8

Studies coming soon

Shawn

spidey976

12-09-2007, 06:47 PM

A quick neck study from Bridgman's

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/LifeStudies_0003-1.jpg

A quick Toros from Rubin's

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/LifeStudies_0002-1.jpg

spidey976

12-16-2007, 02:58 PM

Hey guys ... here are a couple of arm studies.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/arms_0001.jpg

spidey976

12-16-2007, 03:07 PM

Okay ... so ... I am totally hesitent to post these and I may very well take them down in the future ... but since I am trying to improve ... and rendering and shading is one area where I need to work ... I decided to flat out COPY ... blech dirty taste in mouth ... some rendered picks from an artist that I am growing to love his work ... Ed Benes. Now I know that this is a weird decision to post these ... if I didn't no one would know ... but I am trying to learn ... it is a process ... and incase someone else is trying to do the same thing then maybe they will get some ideas too. So .. one thing to be said these are HEAVILY referenced ... but I did try to make some creative decisions as I went to put some more of me in them. Also, so that it was a learning process I kept my copy of Rubin's out beside me as I went so I could see for myself where the muscles came from that he placed in his pic.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/arms_0002.jpg

Here are the original two reference links

http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=21663

http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/categories.php?cat_id=23

ntholdenuk

12-17-2007, 07:13 AM

like both of these Shawn.
The only problam with doing reference work is the lack of a good understructure. I find this myself. When you copy someone work(Being a huge Jim Lee Fan I must of copied most of the stuff he's done). I find that the structure to the figure work is almost always off. this is due to copying the artwork rather than building the drawing as we do when we strt from a blanc canvas. You should re-do these but use the original artist as a reference point only. Build up the drawing as you normally would with shapes or squiggle or however you do it. I think you'll see a more 3 dimensional outcome rather than the kind flat one you achieve here.

I'm i making sense or I'm I just dribblin?
anyway. . . . lets see more

KrisDiaz

12-18-2007, 01:10 PM

ed benes is a pretty damn good artist!...quick question....looking at the sketch from bridgeman, has that book helped you with drawing anatomy? cuz i have it but havent looked at it much.

spidey976

12-18-2007, 05:36 PM

nth ... Well I will be doing similar pieces in the future ... and I may do more rendering studies ... but I will be working more on my structure. Unfortunately I have been having trouble with my work flattening out when I try to render the pieces. It is very frustrating ... but I will keep working on it. If anyone has any tips as to why it flattens with rendering I am so open to them.

Kris> He is a true talent m8 ... I am glad he is in the business. As for bridgman ... I am a little on the fence actually ... his stuff is fairly loose actually ... and if I didn't have another reference like Rubin's or Loomis I would be a little lost as to what is going on in places. However, he has a flow that really works for some of the figures ... and I hoping to use them ALL to improve.

Thanks for the comments guys ... please keep it coming.

spidey976

12-18-2007, 07:13 PM

Okay so I started an anatomy study and it began to turn into Superman ... again ... I need to draw someone new ... lol. I just like that his costume shows so much of the anatomy off ... and that he is such a strong character. So here it is ... a total WIP.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Supessketch.jpg

spidey976

12-20-2007, 06:38 PM

Hey guys ... here is the next step ... taking into consideration a lot of what people had to say ... mainly Loston ... ;). I have him a bit younger I think then you might go Loston ... and a bit leaner. But I am interested in what everyone thinks??

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/SupesSketch-1.jpg

spidey976

12-24-2007, 12:32 PM

Hey Folks ... this is a WIP Spidey that I have started for my son ... he wants me to combine it with the Supes I posted earilier in the week ... C&C welcome ... and any help you have to offer would be great ... lol

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Spidey.jpg

They Spidey is based on this Bagley drawing ... but I worked it up in mine own style ... :D

[url]http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=23655

sadman2000

12-28-2007, 09:57 PM

Hey there.

I'd have to say your definately improving, you seem to know the anatomy but your figures lack a solid construction and thus creation some issues in the detailling stage.

Keep at it, :)

sadman2000

spidey976

12-29-2007, 08:49 PM

Hey Folks here is the updated Superman that I will be finishing soon ... I tried to take in to account everyones input. I will be posting the finished piece in the pencil forum soon ... so please keep an eye out ... :D.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Supesstage3.jpg

spidey976

12-29-2007, 08:50 PM

Here is a quick pair of headstudies of old supes

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Supeshead-1.jpg

spidey976

12-29-2007, 08:50 PM

Another guy I am adding to my Supes/SPidey pic ... hmmm I wonder who it could be ... lol

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Batman-1.jpg

MEPsketcher

12-30-2007, 02:18 PM

I can definetly see your getting better with your art!!!!!
Keep it up

spidey976

12-31-2007, 06:37 AM

Thanks for the compliments Sad and MEP ... I have been working on my and structure a lot since I joined PJ ... and it is very nice to know that others can see improvement. For me it was a lot of unlearning going along with the learning ... aka bad short cuts and anatomy. Please keep coming by I hope to have a finished Supes/Spidey/Bats piece up in a bit.

Cheers

spidey976

01-12-2008, 08:02 PM

Hey there folks

I haven't posted for a bit ... so here is a few new sketches I did up. The torso is from memory and the heads are from Cutting Edge Comics. I am still working on that piece for my son ... just slow going right now ... ;).

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/TorsoHeads.jpg

C&C welcome as always

Shawn

spidey976

01-17-2008, 07:12 PM

Hey guys here is couple of gestures that I thought I would try ... the top two are from Jim Lee's run on Batman ... just trying to get a hang of it.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Gesture.jpg

spidey976

01-17-2008, 07:15 PM

Here is another quick gesure that I am working on. It is another Supes work ... I am re working the piece I showed earlier in order to have him flying. So this is a quick gesture ... I put in the pecks and the head just to solidify it a little bit so I could go a little further with the gesture.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/SupesGesture.jpg

spidey976

01-19-2008, 06:20 PM

Step Two of the gesture above ... as you can see I changed the legs a lot.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Supesinflight.jpg

Justice41

01-19-2008, 07:03 PM

You need to sketch more before you start applying a finish. Never worry that the drawing will get muddy because it's Pencil. It erases. You need to step back to near basic stick figures so you can get the proper body positioning before you start blocking out the figure.

spidey976

01-19-2008, 08:13 PM

Yeah ... I know Justice ... I am occasionally ... and by that I mean a lot ... putting the cart before the hoarse ... but my son wants to get his pic ... lol .... UPDATE: and this figure had almost a full gesture before I really started to finish it I only drew in the head and pecs to help me anchor what I was doing ... so I am working at it. I liked this figure ... any suggestions on improvement i.e. specifics or drawovers are totally welcome.

Thanks Justice... I will keep working on it.

spidey976

01-20-2008, 07:47 AM

lost-spartan

01-20-2008, 08:46 AM

Justice41

01-20-2008, 09:52 AM

Hey Guys

Step 3 ... a little more anatomy ... I am still not entirely happy with his left arm ... I can't get the foreshortening down ... and I can't get the hand right yet ... I must have drawn it 20 times ... :(.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/SupesinFlight2.jpg

When in doubt strip down and get in front of a mirror. May seem silly but it works. You aren't sketching enough, you're still trying to finish a drawing that's not ready to be finished. You're initial sketches should start out like this or similar. This way you can figure out proper proportions and all that at this stage. Things like how long the arms are or legs.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l134/Justice41/seq2.jpg

spidey976

01-20-2008, 10:25 AM

Here's a quick suggestion to fixing the anatomy problems on that left arm. It's quick and simple, but hopefully it helps you out a bit:)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/lost-spartan/SUpeJunk.jpg

Hey Spartan ... I will keep working on it, and thanks for the help ... any suggestion for HIS left our right ... lol

Later

Shawn

lost-spartan

01-20-2008, 11:54 AM

This is the first thing I came up with for the right arm, hope it helps you out Shawn. Ignore the crappy hands, I didn't put much thought into there posing. :D
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/lost-spartan/SUpeJunk2.jpg

spidey976

01-20-2008, 01:03 PM

Nice ... thanks Spartan ... thank you for taking the time.

spidey976

01-23-2008, 03:07 AM

Again thanks for the help guys ... I am still working on the arms ... and I have made some other little changes. I will try to post it as soon as I can.

spidey976

01-23-2008, 06:24 PM

So Jutice I took your suggestions and I went back to the drawing board and did some more gesture work ... and I decided to do some references from ... well ... me using a mirror. I decided to do some basic shape work here as well. I could use some input here folks. I also know that the hands need a little more work ... help.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/SupesinFlightedit.jpg

spidey976

01-23-2008, 06:26 PM

Here is a reworked gesture for the Batman found previously ... using myself as a partial reference ... aka foreshortening.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/BatsFulfigure.jpg

DogSoldier

01-23-2008, 07:37 PM

Alot better . Batmans left arm looks good , alittle flat around the bi-cept and shoulder but the foreshortening looks good. Might wanna lower the crotch + waist abit on Bat's , looks alittle high up right now ( then you will have to lower the hips abit and legs ) If your gonna have him in this pose might wanna put something in his left hand maybe the grapling hook or batarang < spelling ?

Supes arms + hands are drawn better now , but i liked the other pose better , seemed more natural then . His forearms look alittle small for Superman , you might wanna add just a tiny bit more muscle to them .

keep it up ,
your improving all the time .

Justice41

01-23-2008, 08:31 PM

You're still squatting the figures. A body doesn't raise a limb without having the connecting body parts and muscles follow that movement. You raise an arm, the muscles in the chest and shoulder's and stomach all move. You seem to be drawing the figures as if they are action figures where the leg goes up but no other part moves. It's a lot to keep in mind but you have to keep all that in mind when doing an action motion. Just draw separate body parts and get those correct. Draw a lot of heads, arms, legs, feet, etc. Draw lips, eye's, all that.
This is a drawing I did awhile back. It's overly realistic, maybe too much for my liking but notice how the torso of the body is elongated and how the legs connect to the hip and pelvic area. Also take note of how the chest muscles have been pulled by the arms movement.
http://architecturalartz.com/images/art34.jpg

Justice41

01-23-2008, 08:32 PM

I draw ugly feet because they are my gnarled up feet.;) Oh and one more small piece of advice, try not to fall in love with a drawing that you wind up trying to make it perfect. Just erase and start over fresh.

spidey976

01-24-2008, 12:08 AM

DogSoldier: Thanks for the comments m8 ... they will really help. I hadn't noticed that my guys were a little stumpy ... and I will get right on it. As for Bats having a Batarang ... I am on that actually if you look carefully you will see an odd curve going into his hand ... that was the start of one. As for Supes arms ... actually I posed this one out ... yeah ... I looked like a goof. However, the second pose was the one that felt more natural ... I really had to flex and torgue my shoulders and triceps to get the original ... so I went with the second. I still haven't decided on the final pose.

Justice: Damn Justice that is a sweet piece ... is that part of your WW2 piece?? I am pushing it to get better ... and yeah it is a lot to learn. I have been doing some individual studies ... i.e. arms ... legs ... etc. These are workups I am going to light box and combine (Spidey/Batman/Superman) ... and my son is waiting patiently for it. I just want to get it close to right. I hadn't noticed before Dog pointed it out that I had really squated the Batman ... though I will have to stretch out the Supes a bit.

Thank you so much for your input guys ... I am trying to improve ... and I am sorry if it seems that I am not listening at times. It is just that I am trying to unlearn 20 years of bad habits ... and relearn everything the right way, and at the same time finish a few pieces for my son ... lol. I will keep striving to improve ... and I hope that you see it as I keep working.

Thanks Again

Shawn

lost-spartan

01-24-2008, 12:39 AM

A few quick suggestions for your supes peice. Watch the size of the hands, they're a little too big.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/lost-spartan/SupesinFlightedit.jpg

Hope that helps. 'Nite.

Justice41

01-24-2008, 06:37 AM

I'd like you to take a stroll through this guys thread over at Digital Webbing. He does those from start to finish step by step posts. He's really good and really fast too. Check it. http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110430&page=1&pp=40

spidey976

01-24-2008, 12:04 PM

Hey guys here is a rough layout for the Supes/Spidey/Batman piece.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/RoughLayout.jpg

P.S.

Justice ... I looked over that thread ... m8 that is just unfair ... :P ... he rocks and I don't ... lol. Just kidding m8 ... I see some of what you wanted me to ... I am going to have to back through it a few times and really spend some time studying his technique ... I will keep striving.

Shawn

Justice41

01-24-2008, 12:44 PM

Yeah, Anthony keeps it simple and direct but still great stuff.

spidey976

01-24-2008, 12:48 PM

Justice ... You call that SIMPLE ... lol. It is true elegence in art ... I will keep trying to learn ... I want it to look that simple ... lol

P.S. I am stretching out both my guys and doing even more gesture.

KrisDiaz

01-24-2008, 12:59 PM

damn dude you got lost spartan and justice 41 giving you tips! take their advice and learn from your mistakes and im sure youll get some great work done!

Justice41

01-24-2008, 01:48 PM

Part of you're problem I notice is when you start the leg you draw the exact same shape no matter which direction the leg is seen from. Ah ah ahhh.. The side view looks nothing like the front. Check out Alex Ross' sketch's on his site. Look how he draws legs. http://www.alexrossart.com/

spidey976

01-24-2008, 07:37 PM

Thanks Justice ... I haven't had chance to go through this link ... I have been out the for a chunk of the night. Honestly, Justice, Lost-Spartan, DogSoldier, Loston, Bryan, Kris ... and everyone who has helped me since I joined PJ (JLFG where the heck are you??)... thanks for your help and your time ... it makes learning easier ... and more enjoyable.

Kris: I kind of feel like the teachers pet a little or their annoyance ... lol.

Justice: Be patient m8 ... I will get there. I have to thank you for your time ... I know it might be a little frustrating .... knowing that you could just do it yourself ... and do it better. Your patients and your help are greatly appreciated.

DogSoldier: Your help is behind the scene ... but your sketches help me big time.

LostSpartan: Dude thanks for the help and the possible layouts ... it really is cool to see multiple takes.

J Hank: awesome layout ... going to use bits and pieces.

Okay ... Oscar Speech over ... truely folks ... thank you for your help ... I promise to just keep pushing to get better.

Updates ... Soon

Shawn

Bryan:

spidey976

01-26-2008, 12:28 PM

So ... I have noticed way to many proportion issues wiht the original Supes ... so I went back to a gesture. What do you guys think????

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/SupesNewGesture.jpg

lost-spartan

01-26-2008, 07:22 PM

Shawn, you did a real nice job of creating depth with torso, but it looks like you decided to draw it first and just wing the rest of it. ALWAYS start with a stick figure so you work out the whole pose, easily adjust the proportions if they're off, and to help you see how the muscles will lie by using the angles you've put down and comparing them to your own body in a mirror. This will help you in establishing the drawing without getting too far ahead of yourself, and costing wasted hours down the line.

A few quick suggestions.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/lost-spartan/SupesNewGesture.jpg

Hope this helps.

How are the Spidey and Batman drawings coming along? Have you worked out the BG that they will all share?

spidey976

01-27-2008, 02:45 PM

Did some more reworking aka sketching... comments? Oh ... Please ignore the disconnected foot ... lol ... forgot to erase it before I posted ... lol.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/SupesFlightGesture2.jpg

Justice41

01-27-2008, 04:37 PM

You've fallen in love with this pose. I find once I find faults in the sketch it's best to erase and start new with a different pose or viewpoint. although the forms are getting better the placements are still off, it's been a few days, time to move on I say.

spidey976

02-01-2008, 06:44 PM

Hey Folks

So I didn't just fall of the posting face of the earth ... I have been trying to keep the old pencil busy. Here are three quicker sketches then I have done before. Though not nearly at Justice's 30 second pace. I like them ... though they will need some work. Oh ... one is a redraw of the Bats Gesture.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/sketches_0001.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/sketches_0003.jpg

The Flash STOPPING ... lol ... I know it needs work
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/flash.jpg

Bryan E.Warner

02-02-2008, 08:55 PM

Shawn you have lots of movement and some anatomy balance going on..Except for The Batman..I think you should decide to ether have a statue type pose or one with movement..( make sence ) right now he is way to stiff/statue like to have his right arm whipped back like that.;)
Just a thought :D everything else is all improvement.
Bryan

KrisDiaz

02-03-2008, 08:09 AM

the batman shows a lot of potential ......the legs look abit wonky................the spiderman looks a bit to big..i like seeing him with a slim phisyque..and flash falling on his face is really funny

spidey976

02-03-2008, 09:34 AM

Thanks for the comments Bryan and Kris

As for the Flash going down ... well I admit I pushed it to he extreme on this one ... wanting to try to take it to the edge in terms of dynamics in my gesture for that one. It didn't quit work.

Thanks again guys

Shawn

p.S. Finished pieces soon (aka a week or two ... lol)

doodledude

02-07-2008, 01:35 PM

Cool work Spidey.What I see is that you should actually start trying to finish your drawing's completely pencil's and ink's.If can do at least two finished drawings a week.You will look back in a year and see your improvement.

Bryan E.Warner

02-07-2008, 05:57 PM

Depending on shawns goals..he may just want to be a penciler ( I know I do...but location and no help leaves me to be the whole team..letter'r included.)
Every time you pick up that pencil you improve..thus my ol'saying Keep that Pencil Busy!
I'd love to see something that you have really taken your time with Lawrence :D
Many Blessings!
Bryan

spidey976

02-07-2008, 06:13 PM

Thanks for swinging by Lawrence

I am working on it ... at least the Penciling ... right now I am thinking about starting to ink ... but not for awhile yet ... maybe as much as a year. Also, I am working on a finished piece right now ... you should be able to see the roughs on the previous page. I only have limited time right now to draw ... and for the rest of the month I may have a few hours a week. Work combined with being a father of two ... means that I have a few minutes ... SO ... I am really working on my structures and gestures ... the underpinnings of a characters body. Exercises that a few people recommended to me ... including Bryan ... ;). Swing by in a few weeks and you will see the finishes.

Later folks

Shawn

P.S. I am already enjoying my improvement ... at least what I consider improvement.

KrisDiaz

02-07-2008, 06:28 PM

thats good to hear...........im personally getting into inking now and man its a bitch.you gotta be patient and have the time to sit and do it.at least with brushes and nibs......as far as your penciling is goin your structuring is getting better and its great to start off with that for its the base of a great picture

Bryan E.Warner

02-07-2008, 08:43 PM

Writing...Penciling...Inking...Lettering...( Maybe Colorest ) These are all a professions...Lucky for us this is one of the greatest places to hone our skill:D
( Kris, if brush ( and it is so universal ) then have nothing in your hand but that brush...till you can draw ( you know ) as if you were penciling..That is the trick.
Sorry Shawn,I'll back off..it's your show here my good man.
Keep That Pencil Busy!
Bryan

spidey976

02-08-2008, 08:14 AM

LOL .. Bryan ... you never have to backoff in my blog ... LOL. Honestly, part of the reason I started this blog ... is for people to talk about the various processes we use to do what we do. I want people to see what I am doing to improve ...make suggestions ... collaborate. I kind of think that is the WHOLE purpose of PJ ... and I want it to be the purpose of this blog. So please feel free to come in and be a quest teacher ... any time ... ;).

Later Gator

Shawn

lost-spartan

02-08-2008, 08:20 AM

Hey you.....less yakking, more drawing :p :D

Ryan.Smith

02-08-2008, 09:11 AM

spidey976

02-08-2008, 10:21 AM

Hey you.....less yakking, more drawing :p :D

LOL.... actually I am working on the final for that Batman/Supes/Spidey pic ... I am starting to render it now. I think I got most to the anatomy issues kind of worked out ... still lots of work to be done yet though. I am hoping to get it up in a bit ... though a "bit" might be a few weeks as I am REALLY busy at work. I may PM you a scan of what I have done soon though ... since you helped me so much ... ;).

Still always sketching though.

Shawn

spidey976

02-08-2008, 01:27 PM

I gotta say, I'm seeing a vast improvement along the course of this thread. At the beginning, the barrel chests were, well, barrel-sized, and by the end, the body parts are gel-ing much better and looking natural. Great job!

Thanks Ryan

I have been working at it ... and getting an insane amount of help from the guys here. I am happy with the growth and I intend to keep going. I am really glad that you see improvement ... that is the goal.

Swing back any time ... I hope to have an update up soon.

Cheers

Shawn

spidey976

02-08-2008, 05:01 PM

just following orders lost ...;)

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Supes.jpg

KrisDiaz

02-08-2008, 05:23 PM

thats coming along nicely.having a sound structure underneath should help move things along faster and accuratly...at this rate it should look great when completed.......

Dri

02-09-2008, 10:31 AM

Shawn

You wanted my input and I'll oblige. Your work is coming along but rather slowly (output). It seems that you are becoming too cautious and overthinking things too much.

Crits are fine and it's good that your addressing what people have to offer you but sometimes you have to walk alone. By this I mean draw a lot of thumbs and in between rendering your son's Batman/Superman request, draw for the sake of drawing.

It pays to be constant rather than have sprouts of creativity and not sketch for ages because it can undo what you've learned. So my sentiments are the same as Lost Spartan. Less talk and more drawing. Doesn't matter if its scraps, stuff on napkins, doodles made while talking on the phone, etc. Let's see some real progress to see how your thought processes are working. We gotta exercise that muscle we call a brain :)

Put in the same effort in your work as you do on commenting on other people's work and rest assured you'll be pleased. On a lighter note, loosen up your approach to sketching. A lot of us suffer the same thing and approach anatomy in a really mechanical way. Scribble if you have to.

Do your loose preliminaries making it as close to what you envision, post in in the WIP labs and build on it (taking in crits of course). Maybe you want to keep the viewers' of your blog in suspense but it helps you to know what direction and result you are aiming for. In the end you make the key decisions so take some risks along the way. It doesn't physically hurt ;-).

Hope that is what you were after in terms of advice. A lot of posters here have given you invaluable words. Importantly : Draw, draw, draw.

Dri

spidey976

02-09-2008, 01:40 PM

Hey Dri

That is exactly what I wanted ... I am workig on out put as well ... and I am trying to not be SO mechanical. I am really not trying the suspense thing ... I just haven't gotten that much done lately in terms of sketcing. 5 minutes here ... 5 minutes there ... I am a teacher ... and I am really pushing my report cards the last 3 weeks or so. I posted more WIP a little while back and got great comments. I really have been spending a lot of ime studying ... so yes ... DRAW DRAW DRAW. I will get on it m8 ... it is just taking me more time then I want to. I hope you like the improvements though.

Shawn

doodledude

02-09-2008, 09:34 PM

Yada Yada Yada Draw!

Bryan E.Warner

02-10-2008, 08:20 AM

spidey976

02-10-2008, 08:32 AM

Yada Yada Yada Draw!

M8 that is what I was doing ... see below

spidey976

02-10-2008, 08:33 AM

Here is a layout for an Avengers drawing my son ask for ... I did a few thumbs ... but here is what I started to work up full size. I am happy with the Thor and Cap ... I have to tweak Spidey.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/AvengersRoughstage1.jpg

P.S. After I got to this stage my son asked for Iron Man and Wasp ... so when I light box this I will be tweaking it to get them in ... lol

spidey976

02-10-2008, 08:34 AM

"Slow and Steady Wins The Race ;))

LOL ... I am the tortis ... lol .. ;)

Thanks Bryan

Bryan E.Warner

02-10-2008, 08:03 PM

Hey Shawn :)
as teacher goes..do you ever draw cool stuff on your Marker/chock board before class..and see how your students react.? Man it could be great practice an a ton of fun ( at least in my mind )
Blessings!
( oh yeah..Lawrence...we tried. )( he is taking some heat )
I never quite understand hotdoggers.
Bryan

spidey976

02-11-2008, 07:32 AM

Yeah ... I don't get much time to impress the kids unfortunately ... I wish I did ... but I do try to help them with their art assignments. Oh ... there was the time I drew a gesture of a guy jumping over a set of desks ... they did go ape for that ... :D.

As for Lawrence ... yeah we tried ... it is hard because he does have some talent ... and he would grow if he took the critiques and got what he needed out of them ... instead of getting defensive about them. I am out of his threads though ... when people start making personal attacks on people ... and he has done so before in other threads ... and he did with me ... it goes from being defensive to being rude and arrogant. So I am out. I have recieved a lot of praise in my PM and rep boxes concerning my comments and advice. So I kind of feel like I am on the right track with my C&C. I don't want him to leave ... all he will do is learn how to quit. However, not going to waist time ... so ...

RANT over ... no more arguing with footlongs ... and back to the art ... less chatty chatty ... updated post soon ... soon being a few days ... I hope...lol

Oh Bryan ... what do you think of the new Supes and Avengers pics ... if you don't mind me asking???

Later

Shawn

Bryan E.Warner

02-12-2008, 07:19 AM

just following orders lost ...;)

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Supes.jpg

I think your coming along pretty well..there is something a miss with Supermans face..it's close but not quite..I'd check a comic reference.
on Batman..well he's a bit too hard to see:D
Keep up the good work.

spidey976

02-12-2008, 08:33 AM

Thanks Bryan

LOL ... funny story ... my wife said the SAME thing ... I think she said she thought it was mainly the cheeck bones ... I think they make it look to thin and sunken right now ... I will get right on it. As for Bats ... sorry I should have done some correction before posting so he would pop out a bit more.

Shawn

Bryan E.Warner

02-12-2008, 02:53 PM

I think your wife is probably on the right track..It's ok if superman is in your style..as long as it looks like Superman.( did that make sence? )

spidey976

02-12-2008, 06:26 PM

Yeah Bryan ... it does ... still hard to get style vs model things down ... and yeah ... my wife is usually right ... ;).

Bryan E.Warner

02-12-2008, 09:09 PM

Ah ha! ...be sure and take some time outs.( with family/ect ...get on those report cards too:) )
No pressure..
Knuckle down a bit..be confident when doing your final...you'll know when " now is the time." work in sections/periods..( Meaning Don't Draw Tired ) Draw get tired.go do your chorse..come back later ( maybe not the same day but refreshed! )
OK many blessings!
I'm gonna have to get my art going;)

Justice41

02-12-2008, 09:14 PM

spidey976

02-13-2008, 11:11 AM

You are still trying to finish a drawing that's not ready to be finished. Stick to drawing tubes and blocks until you get the feel of it. Trying to apply a finish at this stage is going to hinder progress.

Thanks Justice> I am trying m8 ... my problem with most of my stuff is I don't really know when it is "ready" to be finished. The roughs I did for this piece are the most dynamic and indepth I think I have ever done (I know ... not saying much). Also, on a more personal less technical note ... my son REALLY wants this to be up in his room soon. I know it sounds a bit like a cop out ... but it is part of the reason I may be rushing the development of this just a bit ... though I have been working on the roughs for over a month ... lol. The next piece I am starting roughs for is already up (the Avengers) ... and I am going to work on those quit a bit more. I really hope that you don't think I am ignoring your advice Justice ... I appreciate your time and your oppinion.

Justice ... do you mind if I ask you how you know a piece is ready? I am thinking it is a function of experience ... and just knowing that something "looks" right ... and I just don't have it yet. I will keep on keeping on

Bryan> Yeah ... I am not rushing the rendering right now ... at least not that much ... though I am more hesitant about the form .. but I just can't see the flaws right now. Sigh ... I'll keep the pencil busy. ;)

Shawn

spidey976

02-17-2008, 09:20 PM

Here is a rough of Spartan for my drawoff with Bobby Day ... here you go Bobby ... I am trying to hit the ground running

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/Spartan.jpg

Ryan.Smith

02-18-2008, 07:07 AM

Hey Shawn-

Thanks for taking the time to PM me. I'm trying to see if I remember my comic references right... is this Spartan from Wild CATs? I think the muscle groups are looking pretty good and well placed... One thing I would look out for (and bear in mind that I'm new to this) is the thickness of his neck. I know that the Spartan that I'm thinking of has a collar that goes straight up, but I'm pretty sure his neck was normally proportioned.

Other than that, keep up the good work, mang! :D

-Ryan

spidey976

02-18-2008, 07:37 AM

Thanks for the C&C Ryan ... and thanks for taking the time to come by. Yeah this is Spartan from WildCATS .... I am workin on it for a drawoff. As for the neck I think it might be a bit thick ... thanks for the catch. I am tweaking the collar just a bit ... just stream lining it.

Thanks Ryan ... come by any time.

Shawn

P.S.

As for being "new" ... lots of us are ... ;)

Justice41

02-18-2008, 08:22 AM

You'll know when it looks like what you intended to draw not what you accept that you've drawn. At some point in the sketch it will just hit ya, yeah that's it that's the ticket. The drawing may not be right or correct but it will be what you wanted to see drawn. Here's a small tip to help develop ideas. Think and tell yourself or even right it down on the paper you are drawing on. Write, what you want the scene to be or what you want the characters to be doing. It's like a comic book without a solid premise or story ,trying to draw a comic will be a major Clusterfowlup. You have to have a solid idea of what the character is doing or what the entire scene is. Then you draw the character or scenes from a vantage point that will tell the story to it's fullest dynamic. What Point of view will catch the eye, what amount of background do you need before it becomes too busy. Figure as much about the scene you want to draw as you can, then start sketching.
Take that Spartan sketch. What's he doing/ what's going on? who's he directing his ire at? what's going to go down? Figure all that out before placing pencil to paper. Even a pinup tells a story.

Justice41

02-18-2008, 08:26 AM

Oh and another small tip on capturing the scene you want. Think of the action you're drawing from the standpoint of that scene being a snapshot of a complete scene. In other words where did the figure start before it ended up in the pose you will draw it in. Think through the entire motion and pick the one frame from that sequence which will be the most powerful in the sense of telling the story.
Did Spartan thrust his left arm out like that from his hip or did he sweep it from right to left? If you know how he ended up in that pose then you'll also have a very good idea of how to position the body and all it's elements like hair muscles twists to the body etc.

spidey976

02-18-2008, 09:17 AM

WOW ... thanks for the time Justice ... and yeah ... I have been working on that right here ... Spartan is about to unload on Cyclops ... and I have been thinking of the twist quit a bit. I have to admit ... I like this pose right now ... it looks like what I wanted ... though I may tweak the upraised arm. Thanks for all of the C&C Justice. I have to say that I am getting closer and closer to being able to draw what is in my head ... and it is because of really good C&C like that ... from you and A LOT of others that has made that happen.

Thanks again
Shawn

doodledude

02-18-2008, 11:53 AM

The left arm is entirely to short.Even if he's aiming off into the distance it should'nt be that small.:)

spidey976

02-18-2008, 01:25 PM

Good comment Lawrence

I am not sure if it is as much a function of length or girth/heft ... or both ... it is the one part of the figure that I am not pretty happy with. I will keep working on it. Thanks for the C&C Lawrence.

Shawn

Bobby Day

02-19-2008, 08:51 AM

Justice41

02-19-2008, 09:53 AM

doodledude

02-19-2008, 02:10 PM

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Bryan E.Warner

02-19-2008, 05:30 PM

Shawn your anatomy is coming from?
it's not really too bad,just somethings are a bit off..But This is Comics :D

spidey976

02-19-2008, 06:28 PM

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Why confused doodle???

spidey976

02-19-2008, 06:31 PM

Bryan> I am working the anatomy out of Hogarth's and using Tom Nguyen's book ... and Rubin's ... and a few others. Just curious Bryan ... do you think it is an improvement???

Shawn

doodledude

02-19-2008, 07:07 PM

I heard George Bridgman had the best anatomy books.

spidey976

02-19-2008, 07:43 PM

I heard George Bridgman had the best anatomy books.

Hey Lawrence

Bridgman's stuff is beyond good ... BUT ... I find it a little sketchy at times. Sometimes it is very hard to make out the muscle groupings from his sketches ... and they are sketches. Also, and this might just be me ... I get the impression that some of the drawings may be getting a bit fuzzy in he most recent edition from being over copied ... but that is just me ... I just find some of them a little hard to follow. Hogarth's is good ... exagerated but good ... I am finding the Dynamic Anatomy book to be a big help. However, I temper what I look at a bit using Tom's book and Rubin's. Tom's book kicks serious tail and I hope he does a new anatomy book for comic artists. It would be awesome. I feel like I am improving ... and that my anatomy is getting better. Thanks for swinging by

Shawn

Bryan E.Warner

02-19-2008, 08:50 PM

I heard George Bridgman had the best anatomy books.

humm.I think that is debatable ...Hogarth is good also...But! there needs to be that believable/Real Look...as anatomy goes Michael Angelo #1..With out his ( Frankenstein like research ) it paved the way.
One of the most realistic teachers would be Rockwell or Andrew Loomis.
Shawn I think your Improving and it's time you put all crits a side ( cause you already have them stored in your ---memory banks;) )Go ahead and get your sons pic done.
Bobby must know your reference ;)
As the good Lord says " Be not afraid."
Bryan

spidey976

02-20-2008, 07:29 AM

Nice start!

Here are some thing's I noticed that you may want to work on:

* Spartian's head looks to wide.

* His eye is placed to high.

* His ear is placed to low.

* Spartians neck is way too wide.

* His right Trapezius looks big.

* His right Deltoid looks placed low.

* His right side is to large.

* His right arm is long.

* Spartian's left arm is short.

* He has no arm pit on his left side.

* His Biceps look square instead of curved.

* Spartian's pelvis is lower than it should be.

Here is an overlay drawing I did to show you what I mean:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3272/88522177ma0.png

I hope this helps! :)

Hey there Bobby ... thanks for the comments ... I PMed you but I thought I would respond here. I TOTALLY agree with everything you put down here that I have marked with red and I am working on those things right now. I have to tell yo that is a skilled overlay m8. As for the rest ... well I have to admit I am a little unsure of ... for one main reason. If you are right and the pelvis I drew is to low then EVERYTHING you have said is bang on. However, using a couple of different proportion guides the toroso from cap to crotch is suppose to be about 4 heads tall for a superhero dude. What I have is roughly 4 and your overlay is roughly 3 1/4 or 3 1/2. So it depends on your point of view and your reference I guess. Bobby I am not saying you are wrong ... I am just a little unsure is all. I may go with what I have ... and see how it plays ... not sure yet. Thanks for the C&C m8.

Bryan> The funny thing is ... there wasn't a "single" reference for this. I roughed in the skeleton (it isn't really showing well though) ... sketched an outline and then started filling it in with multiple different books and views of musculature... so this drawing so far is pretty much mostly me with some help. I have to say I really do keep the C&C of past drawings in the back of my head ... that is what learning is all about .... ;). Thanks for the comments B.

Later

Shawn

Justice41

02-20-2008, 07:53 AM

Pretty soon you'll be suffering from too much information.

spidey976

02-20-2008, 09:44 AM

Pretty soon you'll be suffering from too much information.

LOL ... yeah ... it could be ... and I some times find my self doubting the lines I have laid down. However, in the end I try to take what I need from the C&C ... fix what I agree with ... and then try to trust in what looks and feels right. When in doubt I posse in front of the mirror ... lol ... yeah I am a posser ... lol. I am starting to figure out that sometimes ... you just have to draw ... lol.

Bryan E.Warner

02-20-2008, 05:46 PM

Bryan> The funny thing is ... there wasn't a "single" reference for this. I roughed in the skeleton (it isn't really showing well though) ... sketched an outline and then started filling it in with multiple different books and views of musculature... so this drawing so far is pretty much mostly me with some help. I have to say I really do keep the C&C of past drawings in the back of my head ... that is what learning is all about .... . Thanks for the comments B.
That's good:D
And Justice41 is right..too much advice is bad..when I was Boxing ( about a hundred years ago ) if you wanted to be good you took advice from just 1 coach.trying to listen to 2 or more usually got you knock out.
it's probably time to knuckle down and do some complete sketches,be fearless and bold,being too careful can hinder your skills:D

spidey976

02-20-2008, 06:06 PM

LOL ... either the first or second weekend in March you will see the finished drawing for my son ... and little after that you will start to see more finishes. Darn reports ... lol. I haven't been able to do much more then roughs lately .. mainly because hat is the time I have. I can do a rough ... and work on it piece miel. I want to sit down and finish the rest of the figure work on my sons pic in one main stint ... not 5 minutes here and there.

As for having to many coaches ... well ... I listen ... and I take what I need from all of them. In the end I have to make the call on the advice ... BUT ... I ALWAYS appreciate the time people put into looking at my work. I have learned SO much and I can't wait to keep learning. I may get KOed a couple of times ... but I will learn a lot along the way ... ;).

Later

Shawn

Bryan E.Warner

02-21-2008, 02:33 PM

Remember art is not a Time issue.( unless of course your locked in with the Big Boys ;)
)

frazman

02-21-2008, 05:29 PM

Hey Lawrence

Bridgman's stuff is beyond good ... BUT ... I find it a little sketchy at times. Sometimes it is very hard to make out the muscle groupings from his sketches ... and they are sketches. Also, and this might just be me ... I get the impression that some of the drawings may be getting a bit fuzzy in he most recent edition from being over copied ... but that is just me ... I just find some of them a little hard to follow. Hogarth's is good ... exagerated but good ... I am finding the Dynamic Anatomy book to be a big help. However, I temper what I look at a bit using Tom's book and Rubin's. Tom's book kicks serious tail and I hope he does a new anatomy book for comic artists. It would be awesome. I feel like I am improving ... and that my anatomy is getting better. Thanks for swinging by

Shawn

The reason Bridgeman's is sketchy is that the book is designed to be used in conjunction with life drawing. His philosophy of drawing and teaching is to bring attention to the main forms and planes and how those wedge together to form the human body. You are right, trying to learn anatomy solely from those books is difficult if you don't have a body of experience drawing from life as well.

I would recommend Peck as a nice reference to fill in some blanks. On the whole, you have the right idea. There is no one anatomy reference that covers everything equally well. A nice mix of various approaches is the way to go. Even then, there isn't a substitute for a live model. Even the best of photographs tend to flatten out and distort some important elements.

Bobby Day

02-22-2008, 08:17 AM

Now that I look at it again, I think I may have been wrong regarding Spartian's waist being too low. I don't crituqe often :).

spidey976

02-22-2008, 09:19 AM

Frazman> I SO wish I could afford the time and the money to take figure drawing classes ... but that isn't in the cards for a long while ... like maybe 10 years or so. As for the varied reference approach. Well I think we have to do that when we draw comics especially since we usually exagerate certain things (unless you are going for a more photo realistic look). The guys in comics are all wrestler size if not bigger ... the girls are all fitness models ... lol. You don't get many anatomy reference books that have THOSE body types in mind ... ;). I am just trying to keep things believable ... and trying to give it a SOLID form.

Bobby> No worries m8 ... I don't know if you are wrong. I am going for a build similar to say a Jim Lee Captain America (that was the build he kind of gave Spartan), that means that some of the dimensions are exagerated slightly from the normal references (Loomis, Brigdmans, etc...) so I used Tom Nguyen's book to help me. (UPDATE Bobby I think the proportions that you drew were closer to a normal guy ... like a Rick Jones compared to Cap)I have to say your overlay was a HUGE help with working out some of the layout and anatomy problems. Especially with his extended arm. I reworked it using your overlay proportion ... and my own posse a bit... and I think it looks light years better right now ... so THANKS. Keep your eyes pealed for the Cyclops WIP. You know I am going to be showing you a lot of the drawing ... I want you to be motivated to come at me with a KICK BUTT drawing m8.

Shawn

Justice41

02-22-2008, 12:29 PM

Hey check this site out. It allows you to sketch online for free and you can maybe do a screencap to save for yourself but it saves on paper.
http://imaginationcubed.com/

Bobby Day

02-23-2008, 06:44 AM

Bobby> No worries m8 ... I don't know if you are wrong. I am going for a build similar to say a Jim Lee Captain America (that was the build he kind of gave Spartan), that means that some of the dimensions are exagerated slightly from the normal references (Loomis, Brigdmans, etc...) so I used Tom Nguyen's book to help me. (UPDATE Bobby I think the proportions that you drew were closer to a normal guy ... like a Rick Jones compared to Cap)I have to say your overlay was a HUGE help with working out some of the layout and anatomy problems. Especially with his extended arm. I reworked it using your overlay proportion ... and my own posse a bit... and I think it looks light years better right now ... so THANKS. Keep your eyes pealed for the Cyclops WIP. You know I am going to be showing you a lot of the drawing ... I want you to be motivated to come at me with a KICK BUTT drawing m8.

Shawn

I am glad the overlay helped you, I decided to do another one with the waist lower than the last one. I think it looks a lot better. The deltoid in your drawing was spot on.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8183/23027475kw1.png

spidey976

02-23-2008, 05:35 PM

Hey Bobby

I will try to get my new take up soon. I actually bulked up the extended arm and made it in proportion with the slightly bulkier right side ... so we will have to see if that balances every thing out a bit. I may try to get it up tonight ... along with the cyclops roughs.

I am still waiting on your WIP blog ... ;) .... I am not going to stop bugging you ... lol.

Shawn

spidey976

02-23-2008, 06:42 PM

Well I try to keep my word ... here is the revamped Spartan and a roughed out Cyclops

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/WildCatsXmen_0001.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/WildCatsXmen_0002.jpg

P.S. Cyclops is still messin with me a bit ... lol

lost-spartan

02-23-2008, 07:08 PM

Keep it up Shawn, you're gettin' there. :)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/lost-spartan/WildCatsXmen_0002.jpg

spidey976

02-23-2008, 07:24 PM

Thanks Spartan

Honestly ... I am having a lot of fun with my stuff now. Even if I am occasionally look at what I am doing and go .. well D'OH. I like having fun ... :D.

Bobby Day

03-02-2008, 06:20 AM

Another good start!

Here are some things I noticed

* Cyclops looks way to bulky. Cyclops, while fit has never really had that bodybuilder fiesque. Cyclops is usualy more lean, and athletic looking. You may wan't to trim his muscles down a little.

* Cyclops head looks a little misshaped, I think his chin may be sticking out to far ( I could be wrong on this one). His head also looks a bit small for his body.

Here is another overlay drawing I did to help:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9097/cyclopscrituqespideyin2.png

The new Spartian drawing you put up looks much better!

Keep up the progress!

spidey976

03-02-2008, 07:16 AM

thanks for the critique Bobby

I am still looking at it ... and yeah I know he may be to bulking. I just need to work on the physique a little more. I am finding it pretty fun to work on though :).

spidey976

03-02-2008, 05:47 PM

Here is an updated copy of the piece I am working on for my son

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/SupesSpideyBatsprelim.jpg

Morganza

03-03-2008, 06:15 AM

Hey Shawn, looks like you have improved alot, just looking through your blog. I envy you, there are alot of people helping you out here, all with solid advice and tips!

The only thing I could add is...draw THUMBNAILS! This helps me a great deal. Drawing smaller figures helps you see everything at once, and you don't have to draw them fully rendered, It's best to start the very basics, find out what looks right and use that for the large version. You can even enlarge thumbnails and trace over them for a cleaner look[which is what i do]. I drew some sketches of figures you are working on to show how I thumbnail, they are sloppy and not complete, a little more fleshed out since I was working from your figures.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4302/030208bt6.jpg

Stay loose!

Bobby Day

03-03-2008, 07:43 AM

Morgan gave some good advice, I don't always do thumbnails, but I usually do. Thumbnails are great for figuring out the total composition of a drawing. Planning ahead always helps.

spidey976

03-03-2008, 10:32 AM

Thanks Morgan ... thanks Bobby

Morgan> I actually can say that my experience with PJ is almost 100% positive. I have been getting so much help that my work is just moving forward ... and I am glad that you can see the improvement. It has been a lot of hard work and a lot of studying and relearning ... but I love it ... it is fun for me.

As for drawing thumbnails ... I drew a lot for this piece .. and eventually moved forward on a few I liked ... and did them up using my light box. I still have a lot to learn when it comes to figure work and gesture ... but I wanted to get this piece done for my son. I am pretty happy though with this one ... though I have to say Morgan that is a damn fine layout agian ... :D.

Later

Shawn

KrisDiaz

03-03-2008, 10:38 AM

spidey.my only problem with the piece you are working on is supes kneecap.........by closing it off it doesnt look like its connected that well.........erase and open up the lines so that it flows and merges and it may blend better.......on the other hand the shading is looking excellent and the proportions are looking pretty dead on........keep it up!

spidey976

03-03-2008, 10:56 AM

Thanks Kris

Yeah the kneecap is off ... and I THINK I know how to go about it ... and to be honest it is exactly what you said. I was hoping it would create depth by popping it out like that ... but all it really did was create a disconnect there ... so I will fix it. As for the shading and proportions ... dude thanks for the compliment ... I have been working on those for the last few months ... and studying like mad ... I want this piece to be top notch for my son. Oh and I am using a Batman action figure and a flash light for the shading ... lol ... no joke. ALso I am just looking at the shapes and really trying to figure it out instead of faking it like I have in the past ... :P.

Thanks Kris ... I will get to work on that knee m8.

spidey976

03-06-2008, 06:08 PM

Here is an update

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/SupesSpideyBatsPrelim3stitch.jpg

ntholdenuk

03-10-2008, 03:10 AM

This is really starting to take shape.
I love the rendering on Superman's torso and I feel you have catured his likeness which, in my opinion, is hard to do. Something dont work right with his foreshortened leg, kinda looks like its melting. Diggin' Batman's pose although watch what you're doing with his outstretched arm, the underside of the forearm looks like its out of whack.

Cant wait to see more.

sadman2000

03-10-2008, 11:13 AM

Not bad there Shawn, I like how this is turning out. :) Be sure to mind everyones critiques and comments on your work it will make a ton of difference on your future pieces of art.

Later,

sadman2000

spidey976

03-13-2008, 02:55 PM

Hey guys ... thanks

Nth>Dude ... where the heck have you been???? I know there are some issues with the legs and such ... and I am still working on Bat's outstretched arm ... I like it in general though ... and I am glad you are digging the rendering ... it is takind SO much time.

Sad> Thanks m8 ... you know I have been listening to people ... otherwise I wouldn't be able to move forward ... which I think I am going ... :D.

Later

Shawn

ntholdenuk

03-20-2008, 04:17 AM

Hey guys ... thanks

Nth>Dude ... where the heck have you been???? I know there are some issues with the legs and such ... and I am still working on Bat's outstretched arm ... I like it in general though ... and I am glad you are digging the rendering ... it is takind SO much time.

I'm here dude, just not drawing as much as i'd like. will hopefully get some new stuff into my sketch blog soon.

Totally diggin yours.

spidey976

03-22-2008, 07:40 PM

Thanks Nth ... I am working on it. I just keep on keeping on.

Here is a pic I did of a guy doing a back flip and firing off a shot at someone. No hint though ... lol.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/wildcat.jpg

spidey976

03-30-2008, 03:21 PM

Okay ... SO I haven't posted a finished pencil since DECEMBER ... but I have been studying ... and this is the result.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/BatWolvyFinal.jpg

I have to admit this one was pushing it for me a bit. It took a few different thumbs and a pretty messy rough. I also referenced this Jim Lee pic for help with the skyline ... though I didn't take it exactly http://groups.msn.com/artofjimlee/jimleebatman.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=12 .

C&C would be welcome and appreciated.

Later

Shawn

Bryan E.Warner

03-30-2008, 08:09 PM

Hey Bro :D
Keeping that pencil busy is the only real teacher.."hows those kids doing?"
( A good Teacher is worth many a family member )

spidey976

03-31-2008, 05:48 PM

The kids are great m8 ... loving the dad thing ... I am actually working on a Winnie the Pooh piece for the baby that I will post up later. As for teaching ... yeah ... the studies and the roughs ... it all works towards the goal ..... ;)

doodledude

03-31-2008, 06:18 PM

Batman's right arm is really wonky and off.Does'nt seem as if he has a shoulder or clavicle.But your work is improving and it's a more challenging angle than I have seen in your other work Kudos.:)

spidey976

03-31-2008, 11:21 PM

Thanks doodle

Yeah ... I know that the right arm is a bit off ... I tried to go for the effect that the clavical was covered by the cowel ... but I guess it wasn't entirely successful. I did push the dynamics a bit ... and the anatomy got a little hinky because of it ... I have to just keep working on it.

Thanks for the C&C doodle

Shawn

Hofling

04-01-2008, 06:37 AM

First off, it's nice to see you pushing your limits and trying more challenging angles and poses. However, I'd like to mention a few things part from the arm-thing Doodledude's already mentioned:

- The buildings in the background looks slightly off. The one farthest to the right looks like it's straight up and "facing" the viewer, while the others aren't. so I suggest you tweak the one on the right to follow with the other two.

- Batmans groin looks a little stretched out due to the high briefs. I think a bigger belt would solve that though.

- Wolverines pattern on the tights. The way the lines run down his chest suggests it's very flat. the one on his left side bends and follows the body, but the one on his right seems to be a straight line.

that's the only things I spot in it.

Otherwise it's very awesome, and it's easy to see that you've put alot of work into this one. The details are amazing. well done!

spidey976

04-01-2008, 07:21 PM

Thanks Hofling

Dude ... thanks for the C&C .... the groin thing is a big help ... I will give it a shot in a bit ... and keep it in mind for the future. As for Wolvies pattern ... damn I just didn't notice I did that ... doh. I roughed the lines in straight ... and then didn't fix that one ... oppps. As for the perspective on that one building ... good call ... I was going for something along the lines of a turn in the road into a square ... but I don't think I entirely sold it ... that is for sure. I will keep working on it though ... that is only my third skyline ... so I need to practise. As for the work ... yeah ... I loved it though ... I loved thinking about as many aspects as I can and pushing my skill. It is one of those things that just makes what we do so darn cool ... doing our best ... and then trying to do better ... :D.

Thanks again for the C&C ... I will work on your suggestions.

Shawn

JimLeeforGod

04-13-2008, 12:37 PM

Awesome improvement dude, before you know it, you'll be able to take
on Doc B.

spidey976

04-26-2008, 09:37 PM

Awesome improvement dude, before you know it, you'll be able to take
on Doc B.

Geezzz ... I missed this JLFG. Now I have to say that is a HUGE compliment m8. Doc B does some amazing work. I am still studying ... I just need to find some time to lay down a line. I have a few ideas running around and can't wait to get them down and posted up here. I am still working on that piece for my son ... just having some foreshortening troubles.

I am also thinking about ... well ... joining the darkside ... and throwing down some inks. I have to do some more technique studies, and get some equipment ... but I was thinking it would be nice to experiment with a brush, pens, and maybe some washes.

Dude ... thanks again for the huge compliment.

spidey976

05-31-2008, 08:47 PM

Damn ... I haven't posted a pic in a bit ... so here is my entry for the IronMan DO. I am calling it done for now ... though I am going to be adding a Background later. My son begged me to ... but I think he wants like Avengers Tower or the Hellicarrier ... and I didn't have time for that before the DO ended ... and I felt like posting this up for some C&C.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/IronManFinalNOBG.jpg

Just to be all above board and stuff ... I used a pic of Iron Man done by Jim Calafiore that I found in my Wizard How to Draw Getting Started book (The shot was originally in Iron Man #325) as the first reference for the rough of this. I made quite a few changes to suit my purpose not to mention hours of referencing about 10 or 12 different shots of the Mark III armor that I found online. Last but not least I really tried to look at how Bob Layton handles some of his metal textures. The man is an Iron Man master.

I will try to add some more roughs that I am doing in my spare moments ... instead of all just finished work. Life is very busy lately ... baby started to crawl ... cruise ... and is almost walking ... all in the last month ... lol.

lost-spartan

05-31-2008, 08:51 PM

Nice work. But the head could stand to be almost completely doubled in size, it's just so tiny compared to the body.

Bryan E.Warner

05-31-2008, 08:58 PM

Nice work. But the head could stand to be almost completely doubled in size, it's just so tiny compared to the body.

You mean with the forshortining..twice the size would be over-kill

spidey976

05-31-2008, 09:01 PM

Hey lost-spartan ... Hey Bryan

Thanks for helping me blow the dust of this blog ... lol. I am not sure about the head ... I know I kind of did some more extreme foreshortening then I am use to ... I think using a reference fore the pose gave me some added confidence. I am not sure if I took it to far ... I am pretty pleased with the result.

Bryan E.Warner

05-31-2008, 09:16 PM

Hey Shawn :D
I'm as old school Ironman as could be..http://nickdean.deviantart.com/art/Ironman-11164019
I think thats you too.
Your Ironman is good but! he's too formed like Our Ironman to be convincing in that armor..( does that make sense? )

Ryan.Smith

05-31-2008, 09:16 PM

definitely seeing some huge improvement, man. I would agree that the head is a smidge small. It may be too late to change it, but if not it could probably be a quick fix in photoshop. The shiny metal came off really nice, and the body pose seems pretty natural. The only other thing I would want to change would be the energy signature around the hands, or at least the one on our left; it doesn't seem to fit the rest of the pic, you know? Maybe some Kirby dots would have a nicer effect, but that's just my opinion...

Great job, though. Definitely some marked improvement! :lml-:

lost-spartan

05-31-2008, 11:52 PM

You mean with the forshortining..twice the size would be over-kill

LOL maybe that would be overkill, but it needs to be bigger! :D

spidey976

06-01-2008, 08:51 AM

Thanks for the comments guys

Lost> I may try to fix the head before I finish the piece ... but the last time I tried to erase anything on it ... it started to smug pretty badly ... so. Oh and not to mention that is like the 10th head I tried ... so it might have to wait till I take another crack at him or until I ink this one

Bryan> Yeah I like the old school way of rendering and dealing with the metal ... I find that a lot of guys draw him with almost NO rendering lately ... just the line work. I loved Layton's take on him during and around the armor wars. As for him being too formed ... well ... it kind of makes sense ... lol. I think that right now it migh not look like there are seperate pieces or modules to the armor.

Ryan> Thanks m8 ... I am always struggling to improve ... and it is a constant process. I really have been rying to work on my anatomy ... and I basically built the figure wih realistic anatomy before I laid down the armor ... and I think it really helped on this one. As for the energy signatures ... I am going to be going back and rework them a bit ... they were a bit rushed ... ;).

Thanks again guys

gmags

07-01-2008, 09:46 PM

Man Spidey, you have made some huge improvements!!! Really like your last Ironman piece!! Keep the eyecandy comin! :)

sadman2000

07-01-2008, 10:03 PM

Man Spidey, you have made some huge improvements!!! Really like your last Ironman piece!! Keep the eyecandy comin! :)

What he said! ;) You're really coing along Shawn, but where the heck are the updates?! More I say! :D

spidey976

07-02-2008, 01:53 AM

Thanks gmags ... Thanks sadman

I am glad that you like my new stuff ... and that you think that I am improving ... it is a constant process ... and a little slower then I would like some time due to lack of drawing time ... lol.

gmags>That Iron Man was the most involved rough I have ever done ... lol ... bu I felt it was totally worth it in the end. I intend to come back and finish it with a background and some tweaks to the energy around his hands and his right arm ... but for right now I am taking a bit of a break from that one. I will post an update sooner rather then later ... I hope ... lol.

Sadman> Thanks dude ... the updates are a little slower then I would like right now ... a walking 11 month old combined with a killer work load (which ended for a bit last week ... whewww) ... REALLY cuts into the drawing time. However, I have a double page spread on my drawing board right now that ... I hope will be my best work to date. I am just getting my tush handed to me by the perspective I have choosen for the background... but I don't want to chicken out and just throw something easy down they way I use to. Gotta push the skills or you don't grown.

Thanks again guys ... I hope to have an update up by next week.

Shawn

spidey976

08-16-2008, 09:53 AM

Okay since I always ask people their process here is some more of mine.

Batman2003/2004: Now I am only showing this because this is where I started about 4 or 5 years ago. Trying to do exactly what I did with this piece ... with far less success. This was based on Jim Lee's Batman 615 cover ... with a quick glance for a reference ... and then me trying to fake it really. My anatomy was horrible ... foreshortening was crappy ... and proportions didn't exist ... lol ... all pre PJ of course.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/WorkInProgress_0001.jpg

The first WIP:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/BatmanWIP.jpg

Now this is a little more then a gesture ... just trying to get the general flow down. I was trying to avoid the stiffness that sometimes comes down with my stuff ... though I didn't draw in a lot of anatomy at this point. Though I started shortly afterwards.

The finished rough:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/BetmenWorkInProgress.jpg

This is how far I went with the rough ... which was a mistake really. I should have done more of the layout here ... like layout the perspective grid on the rough, but I THOUGHT I had the entire thing worked out ... and well opppps. I was originally going for a three point perspective shot with this one. That is why AzBat and McGuiness (yeah it is Terry) were in slightly different positions ... with Terry much further from the camera. I realized after a little while that my 3 point wasn't really working ... so I switched to two point for the final. Will have to experiment with threepoint soon though.

spidey976

08-16-2008, 09:54 AM

The Final Piece:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/spidey976/BatmenFinal.jpg

Okay I wish I had scanned this one more time for an inbetween stage ... but I was in a hurry. Well besides what was mentioned above ... I completely changed the head. I studied how Jim Lee, and Neal Adams structured their heads when Batman was leaning forward ... and I realized that I had Bat's head for a straight on view rather then a slight down view. So I changed the structure, and there you go. The other major change were Terry's position change ... and the Batzarro change. I decided that Batzarro wouldn't be swinging straight through the piece ... so I decided to have him swinging sideways almost hitting everyone ... it was kind of fun to do that.