Civil War (spoilers!)

[jdmakescomics]

Ok I just read the first issue of marvels next big "internet breaking, world smashing, character changing crossover". So it opened up with the death of the new warriors, how many comics these days open up with the death of an obscure charcter these days just for shock value? That being said if one charcter survives the blast like marvel says the team might see a relaunch.

The publics reaction to the accident seemed realistic, kinda makes me wonder why this hasn't happened earlier.Tony being spat on was a nice touch. That and they put Human Torch in the hospital. People seem to be talking crap about the dead New warriors the entire issue, even the heroes who have worked with them on occasion!

But the high point of the book had to be captian americas confrontation with shield, sure you could see it coming from a mile away, that doesn't mean it wasn't awesome!

Now that writing is out of the way, time for art. Mcnivens art was great but the coloring kinda screwed it up. They added alot of bold lines of color and made the male (and female in some cases) faces look a bit too complicated. The Captia america fight scene I mentioned earlier was very well drawn even if it got confusing in places.

Both art and writing were good and gave this the epic feeling that a crossover SHOULD have. House of M lacked this and marvel seems to be finally catching up to DC. The ending is very predictable at the moment though, cap gives some big speech, rallys all the heroes, big fight with suprise villain, the end. Of course they could go the other way and actually suprise everybody. Either way this looks to be a wild ride.

[dxdragon]

They should have kept speedball alive and killed the rest off. No more Namorita either I guess.

[DJ Kenobi]

Reviews people!!! Let's get some full-on reviews! Get in-depth! Let's rock this joint! Bring it if you you think you can! Are you scared!?! Prove me wrong! Write a full review! I dare you! I like exclamation points!

[jdmakescomics]

ok added to the review a bit. I'll do a review as I get each issue. I do get issues kinda late sometimes though.....

[DJ Kenobi]

oh come on....this was just as long as most of the other reviews I saw : /. I'll add onto it though
True. But I usually complain about them too. Hey, a mod can always hope that people will at least pretend to want to put effort into the reviews. ;)

I refuse to give up the ghost that this will one day be a lean, mean, comics analysis forum machine! Hmm, that wasn't as smooth as I had hoped it would be. Oh well. Get down! Get dirty! Get in-depth analysis!!! Weeeeeee!!!!!!!!!! :D

[Deth]

I have read all the comics leading to and the Civil war #1 they were all well written and extremely well drawn. my one complaint is this. Marvel's gimmick in all this is asking the reader "WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON?". I feel that they are creating a one sided story here. We've all read and seen the things that have gone on. Heroes having secret meetings and secret deals that in truth, depict them in a less than heroic stature. I mean if they want readers to go along with these HEROES that are siding with the government. Then we need to see these HEROES being the heroes they have always been for the government without compromising their honor.

[penciljack]

I bought the first issue. Doubt I will buy more. The art was lukewarm, the writing was subtacular and characters just didn't act like themselves, in my humble opinion.

Captain America, in particular, was one of those characters. I gather he's had some prolonged tensions with the new head of Shield. But the entire confrontation just happened too quickly, too sharply.

Shield Director: "Hey, we've decided we want to be the big bad 'Big Brother' sort of agency that all stereotypical government agencies seem to be these days. And even though none of us really know what the conflict is all about, and even though the writer basically glossed over it too quickly to make any real impact or, heck, any real sense, we want you to be on our side and take care of other superheroes who don't follow suit."

Cap: "Yeah? Well I disagree with you. And even though I've pledged to give my life for my country, and even though I'm obviously in the military and hold military rank, and even though I take great pride in the fact that I'm a soldier, I'm going to go against everything you stand for and stand against the will of the people and show you how bad I am and embarass your crew and steal a plane and then do something blatantly stereotypical, like complain about the pilot's 'potty mouth' and then buy him some apple pie."

"Oh, and I'll probably be off doing my "Man Without a Country" thing again, soon, because, you know, these days its what I do, and damned if any writers have any better ideas for me."

Anyway, that's what it felt like to me. The entire issue was rushed and forced. I don't mind the concept, but I feel like too many opportunities were missed to play out some honest intrigue and not go the route that has been travelled before ... so many times before.

[haunted]

I really enjoyed reading issue one of Civil War. I thought the story was cool, but then again, I'm a new reader so I don't know what's already been done when it comes to story lines. I think it should be interesting seeing Iron Man and Captain America duke it out over seven issues.

I thought the artwork looked spectacular! I certainly can't draw like that yet so I greatly admired it. But then again, I'm a fairly new reader, so I can't really judge the artwork based off of comics written/drawn earlier.

[plasticfangs]

They should have kept speedball alive and killed the rest off. No more Namorita either I guess.

Wait a minute. I heard Speedball wasn't dead. Don;t they say that one of the NEw Warriors survived?

[plasticfangs]

I bought the first issue. Doubt I will buy more. The art was lukewarm, the writing was subtacular and characters just didn't act like themselves, in my humble opinion.

Captain America, in particular, was one of those characters. I gather he's had some prolonged tensions with the new head of Shield. But the entire confrontation just happened too quickly, too sharply.

Shield Director: "Hey, we've decided we want to be the big bad 'Big Brother' sort of agency that all stereotypical government agencies seem to be these days. And even though none of us really know what the conflict is all about, and even though the writer basically glossed over it too quickly to make any real impact or, heck, any real sense, we want you to be on our side and take care of other superheroes who don't follow suit."

Cap: "Yeah? Well I disagree with you. And even though I've pledged to give my life for my country, and even though I'm obviously in the military and hold military rank, and even though I take great pride in the fact that I'm a soldier, I'm going to go against everything you stand for and stand against the will of the people and show you how bad I am and embarass your crew and steal a plane and then do something blatantly stereotypical, like complain about the pilot's 'potty mouth' and then buy him some apple pie."

"Oh, and I'll probably be off doing my "Man Without a Country" thing again, soon, because, you know, these days its what I do, and damned if any writers have any better ideas for me."

Anyway, that's what it felt like to me. The entire issue was rushed and forced. I don't mind the concept, but I feel like too many opportunities were missed to play out some honest intrigue and not go the route that has been travelled before ... so many times before.

I too, have issues with the Captain America part of the issue, although my issues differ slightly from yours.

Mainly it felt like they were ripping off the Ultimate version of Capt, with the surfing of a jet fighter (and exaggeration of Captain's ability in order to be able to do so), and the overly-proper behaviour (such as the potty-mouth comment).

I love the Ultimate's take on the character, but I do not think they shoudl try to weave that into the regular universe's depiction of him. It seems...cheap, to me.

I don't think Captain America's reaction was all that untruthful to the character, though. If anything, he's always had a strict sense of what he believes in, and that has often brought him into conflict with goverment leaders. One of my favorite period's of the comic was the whole "Captain" storyline...

The big issue that most people had with this issue, with those that I have talked to, was how quickly things did seem to esculate, within the story. I believe that the events that take places within the issue are actually supposed to be spread out in over a matter of months (or weeks, at least), in their time. However, this is not properly explained.

I'm going to keep reading...I just hope it isn't the letdown that "Infinite Crisis" turned otu to be...

[Deth]

you guys are forgetting "Road To Civil War" stories or that Avengers disassembles and House of M are storylines that lead up to Civil War.

[dxdragon]

well...all I can say is that I can at least follow and understand the story unlike DC and their 50 different converging universes.

Reg. Marvel Universe Capt. is a pansy...his character needs a little kick in the rear.

[Deth]

Im still trying to figure out which infinite crisis thingy is going on right now. so confusing!!!!

[bushiboy]

I've always been a hardcore DC fan, only picking up issues of Captain America, XMEN and Spiderman here and there. Anyway, after reading Infinite Crisis and the first issue of Civil War, I may be making a big switch in my buying habits (well, in my standing at the rack and reading issues habits anyway. SCREW YOU PUBLISHERS AND REATAILERS!!!)
I really dig the whole concept of the Marvel U looking at ALL costumes with the same animosity that they've previously aimed exclusively at mutants (and Spiderman occasionally).
Why didn't the Government try this before? They did this in a way with the whole Mutant Registration Act in the X titles years ago, why not to ANYONE in spandex (or leather, or kevlar, or adamatium accesories)?
I friggin HATE that new Spiderman costume though. The black costume is still my favorite.

[NickRocks]

didnt spiderman get a new costume or something? im refusing to read civil war until the trade is out, like im doing with dc and their million crises.

[acosby]

I have to agree with the fact that they handled the whole Cap. vs. sheild thing. That conversation escalated to a battle way too fast to be believable. I can t believe Cap would go rogue that easily or that the head of sheild would aproach him in such a lame way.
It just seems like they were trying to get the battle lines drawn for him way too fast. That entire thing could have been a whole issue in the Cap title and then came to a head in Civil war 1.
I personally would have liked to have seen it that cap went along with it while they apprehended the first few targets then have him switch sides part way through. Or maybe he pretends to go along with it at first only to get as much tactical info. about their plans beore he goes rogue.
That seems like a better plan than making a useless stand that gets him nothing, but enemies and no advantages.

Anyway I could probably go on and on with more logical ways for them to handle it, but that is enough for now.

[alentrix]

That entire thing could have been a whole issue in the Cap title and then came to a head in Civil war 1.


My whole issue with that statement is that if they did it in a Cap title, they would have to explain it in the 7 issue story.

"Where's Cap?"
"He went rogue"
"Oh... ok. Ummm... why?"

Would have just been lame, and possibly more shallow then it really was. Also, I see the main thrust of this is Iron Man VS Cap, so to leave that bit out of the story would be madness to readers every where. Marvel is trying to tell a meaningful story with all these characters in a 7 issue arch and make it so you don't have to check out all the other books to get the main story of these 7 issues. All the back stories and lead ups are happening in these characters books and if you want to know the "behind the music story of Cap and Shield" then check out the Cap books.

So far so good as near as I can tell. I really enjoyed the colouring of this book and the art over all. The pacing is a little fast, but then again this is a set up issue and I understand them wanting to establish the playing field before moving on with everything. I'll be picking up the second issue. We'll see from there how far I go with it.

[Deth]

Im purchasing the whole doggon thing. like all the spin off issues as well. I gotta say that I havent been excited about a comic book event in years, Because they always promise the same things."Some will die, Things will change and never be the same, Great ramifications!!!!" Although this story arc does say all those things as well, Ive never seen them comic as many comics to an event like this. Im all a twitter.

[JPJ]

I'm skimming through the issue now and.....I dunno. Is it just me or does Mark Millar write all the character's personalities the same? IE Smart ass etc etc

The worse was Microbe's dialogue. I read the New Warriors' trade a week ago and he was kinda...I dunno...slow? Yet in the one panel he has Microbe's dissing on how Night Thrasher doesn't sound straight.

Like I said...typical Mark Millar personalities. A bunch of smart ass/depressing dicks.

[Huerta]

I have to agree with the fact that they handled the whole Cap. vs. sheild thing. That conversation escalated to a battle way too fast to be believable. I can t believe Cap would go rogue that easily or that the head of sheild would aproach him in such a lame way.
It just seems like they were trying to get the battle lines drawn for him way too fast. That entire thing could have been a whole issue in the Cap title and then came to a head in Civil war 1.
I personally would have liked to have seen it that cap went along with it while they apprehended the first few targets then have him switch sides part way through. Or maybe he pretends to go along with it at first only to get as much tactical info. about their plans beore he goes rogue.
That seems like a better plan than making a useless stand that gets him nothing, but enemies and no advantages.

Anyway I could probably go on and on with more logical ways for them to handle it, but that is enough for now.

Shield and Caps relationship is explained more in NA and some other titles, so for the nitpicky people, there ya go.

[Deth]

yeah the hardest part I think when having a character in more than one title or a company wide project like this is that, none of them are self contained stories. There are things going on in Captain America thatthey might not explain in New Avengers. Yet, they may choose to show aspects of what happened in Captain America within New Avengers without giving us a full understanding of what happened in the other comic. when I read New Avengers: Illuminati. It explained alot about Ironman's personality and reasoning for going with the Government. If you didnt read that you might just read Civil War 1 and think Ironman just turned coat in the span of one issue.

[Vargas Prime]

I'm skimming through the issue now and.....I dunno. Is it just me or does Mark Millar write all the character's personalities the same? IE Smart ass etc etc


Yeah, that's why I've more or less given up on Millar's stuff. Some of his older stuff is nice (especially Red Son, the Superman Elseworlds mini), but ever since Ultimates, he only seems to be able to write like a bad, one-trick rendition of Warren Ellis.

I actually bought the first arc of "Ultimates" in trade, and I gave it up when I realized it was just the Avengers, except everyone was a d*ck.

I skimmed a friend's copy of Civil War, and it seemed more or less par for the course: Squeeze as much disjointed story and as many characters into 20 pages as possible, kill a few minor characters, and have at least one over-the-top action scene.

Not a fan of the premise, for the most part. New Warriors get toasted by Nitro, and everyone blames the heroes? Nitro was the one who blew everyone up...

[jdmakescomics]

Civil war 2 isn't out yet so I'll review a tie in I picked up. I didn't get any other tie ins so if people can review the other important ones that'd be great ^_^:

Amazing Spider-Man#532

SPOILERS

Story: finally, a tie in that seems to actually contribute to the overall story. Peter Parker is faced with the decision (like we all saw coming) of being for the registration with stark or rebelling with cap. The drawback of siding by Stark is that he would have to reveal his identity to the public.

Iron man was handeled much better here. He seemed to have at least some compassion for the death of the new warriors unlike the main book where he was almost spiteful. I guess this could be considered conflicting with the main book but its almost fixing some of the characterisation.

After a talk with Aunt May (how old is she supposed to be now!) and MJ peter is convinced to stay and reveal his identity rather then leaving the country. The book leaves off with spidey just about to make the announcement of his identity to the public. But we all know he'll decide not to at the last minute and rally with cap : /.

Art: not much to say here, I didn't have any problems with it

[Deth]

I read the Wolverine Tie In. It doesnt have all too much to do with the main plot of civil war. Its about him trying to hunt down Nitro Overall I thought it was kind of a brainless comic. not much depth too it. The art was a little odd for my taste as well.

[hett15]

Well..... SPOILERS .....A head.....

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CivilWar/CivilWar2_End_leader.html

[Pencilero]

Comics, brainless?

When did they become "high art".

I thought Wolverine worked well. The art is an acquired taste, you'll either love or hate Humberto Ramos; but I thought the story fit well with Wolverine's character.

He's the best there is at what he does, and that's not paralegal work.

I'm thinking of picking up the Cap issues just because I'm buying Civil War for Cap.

Issue #2 of Civil War is like a really low grade adhesive. There really needs to be more meat to the story of the stand alone issues, otherwise they could just play connect-the-dots with tie-in issues and do without.

Issue 2 felt like a collection of out takes.


Not a fan of the premise, for the most part. New Warriors get toasted by Nitro, and everyone blames the heroes? Nitro was the one who blew everyone up...

It's really not a stretch of the imagination if you look at the fast-ones the administration has been pulling on the american public for the past five years.

Misplaced blame and tilting at windmills is the name of the game.

[NickRocks]

that picture of spidey with the cameras flashing is lame.

[makoi]

The second issue was a bit better than the first one. Everything still seems like it's forced but the overall flow of the second issue was better. I didn't pick up any of the other Civil War books except for the latest Wolverine (mainly because of that crazy cover by Ramos) and I ended up enjoying that issue. I'll probably follow that too as long as it interests me.

For some reason I find myself looking at how McNiven is telling the story and how Bryan Hitch would have done it. I think if Hitch or Quitely would have done the art, it would have a "grander scale" feel to it. I still dig McNiven's art, but I don't think he was the right choice for this story IMO.

[Deth]

I mean no disrepect but Quitely's work is an aquired taste. I for one really dislike his art. He does very nice angles and panels but the faces and bodies of his characters just isnt my cup of tea. I think the current artist for civil war is doing just fine. I'm sure there are others that could have done a better job. (Heck they coulda had Alex Ross do it and sell the original pages for like 200,000 per page.) But I think he was a good choice. Im especially enjoying the colors. Now I just read the Thunderbolts tie-in and I gotta say that comic is sub par. The writing seems a little outdated, as does the art.

[makoi]

Quitely's work is an aquired taste. At first I thought it looked goofy (especially the women's faces) but now I look forward to his artwork more than anyone on a monthly basis. I just love the way he tells a story, the widescreen shots, and the angles he uses.

[Pencilero]

IMO Quietly draws normal people better than he does superheroes. His work on the Vertigo books is lovely, but god damn if his tights stuff isn't just thumbtacks for my eyeballs! :(

Hitch is like Alan Davis with all the dynamic impact sucked out of him and left painstakingly photo-referencing which celebrity his title's characters should look like.

[jdmakescomics]

I'll get issue 2 next weekend, thats when I recieve my allowance >_>. So sorry for the late review.

[NickRocks]

Lol! i still have yet to read any of it until Marvel finishes printing its visionaires TPBs. they get you hooked and then yank the needle away!

[jdmakescomics]

Civil War #2

Captain america is underground, 15 super villains have been mysteriously beaten and ready to be put into custody. Shield suspects that heroes are joining caps resistance against the superhero registration act. As the rebel side takes down criminals unknown the pro side is fighting larger villians in teams and gaining public respect.

Mr.Fantastic's reason for being pro registration seems logical enough, his calculations show that without a registration heroes will go unchecked and the world will go into choas. Iron mans reason for being pro sems a bit more explored, I stil think amazing spider-man handled him better though.

The war seems a bit lopsided though, the rebel side does all of the "cool" stuff while Iron Mans side seems to be made "the man". Most all readers are rooting for the rebels when this was supposed to divide fans down the middle. More like 1/5th for registration the other 4s of fans against it. But things besides the war itself will divide fans though, such as spideys public unmasking.

Either the arts improved since last issue or I've gotten used to it. The lighting and pacing were great. The artist kinda likes focusing the camera on female charcters butts though (pg 5 panel 3) : P. He did the same thing with marvel girl last issue, not that I'm complaining.....anyway, great art overall.

[Logan]

i feel like the civil war storyline and the whole aspect of spidey teaming up with stark degrades spiderman's integrity.

the discussion he has with mary jane and aunt may reads like he is very opposed to the idea of revealing his identity, but having no will of his own, he is snowballed into doing it anyway by stark and the women in his life. this just doesn't seem like spidey to me. he does what he feels is right, regardless of what others think. at least that's how i always thought he acted. this whole civil war thing makes him into little more than stark's puppet, and that's just sad imo.

[dxdragon]

i feel like the civil war storyline and the whole aspect of spidey teaming up with stark degrades spiderman's integrity.

the discussion he has with mary jane and aunt may reads like he is very opposed to the idea of revealing his identity, but having no will of his own, he is snowballed into doing it anyway by stark and the women in his life. this just doesn't seem like spidey to me. he does what he feels is right, regardless of what others think. at least that's how i always thought he acted. this whole civil war thing makes him into little more than stark's puppet, and that's just sad imo.

Don't worry, next year Dr. Strange will cast a spell making everyone forget peoples secret identies, Capt. America and Stark will purge all records, The Daily Bugle will resume it's rants that seem highly unblausible for anything other than the Enquirer. Finally Batman will come in a scold everyone for tampering with his mind.

[nolanjwerner]

The war seems a bit lopsided though, the rebel side does all of the "cool" stuff while Iron Mans side seems to be made "the man". Most all readers are rooting for the rebels when this was supposed to divide fans down the middle. More like 1/5th for registration the other 4s of fans against it. But things besides the war itself will divide fans though, such as spideys public unmasking.



Well...

The Superhero Registration Act is basically the first step towards superhuman conscription and forcing metahumans to further the agenda of whatever corrupt people were in power. IMagine the Avengers being forced to fight in Iraq.

And imagine how warlike the already bellicose Bush administration would be if they had a near unlimited supply of superhuman soldiers.

I fail to see any compelling evidence FOR an act like this in a society that even makes the most basic pretension towards freedom. If anything I don't think the pro-reg side is being shown harshly enough.

[Dawnsknight]

The reasoning is accountability.
The governments may make mistakes, and choice we don't agree with, but at the end of the day, the government is accountable to the people.
Super-heroes have no public accountability. Their identities are secret, they act without permission, and they don't clean up after themselves.
I don't agree with it, but I understand the reasoning.

[JPJ]

I've still only read one issue (it's hard getting comics in Italy) but one of the big questions I've got in my head is where do the non-traditional superheroes stand? Dr. Strange is NOT a superhero. He may have amazing powers and abilities but he doesn't really go on patrol and take on the wrecking crew. The same goes with Ghost Rider, Morbius and all the mystic characters and what not. And what about characters like Quasar who protects the universe and only stops by Earth for a hot dog and just happens to stop a bank robbery or something? Is he going to get arrested if he refuses to register?

I still find it hard to believe that SHIELD doesn't have info and ways to track the superhuman community and they need everybody to register and carry a badge. These guys have Intel on alien races, can register that whole Micheal mutant thing and find out which powers he got from who, and has told the whole freakin' superhuman about how the Hand and Wolverine were killing all the masks and protecting them. They had intel on the freakin' SPOT for chrissakes. You don't get much more unknown.

Probably already discussed earlier but I was re-reading issue one and....well...what the hell was Agent Hill wanting to arrest Captain America for? There was no lawful order given seeing as how the registration act wasn't approved yet, he didn't pose a threat or anything. Cap was standing there and talking to Hill and she just says "arrest him." Ummm, last I heard, disagreeing with someone on an issue isn't a crime. However, a government/military official giving an UNLAWFUL order is. Hill would have been yanked from her position and arrested. (When are they killing her off?)

[bushiboy]

Is this the reason they did the whole "Planet Hulk" thing? Because if he was aroung, Stark's guys would all be busy just trying to contain him. If I were Cap I'd find Banner, shove a beehive up his ass and drop him in the middle of SHIELD HQ.

[Think Tank Bob]

Just an FYI...

I work at a comic shop, and we got an email saying that issue 3 of Civil War has an alternate cover, which spoils the end of the book. So if you don't want to know what happens, be on the lookout for that.

Or don't be on the lookout, I suppose.

[Durakken]

Wow... the superhero world is more shallow than i thought v.v This is a blatent rip off of the game City of Heroes and I hope they get sued like they tried to sue CoH for people having the ability to almost somewhat make some of the marvel characters.

[NickRocks]

I still find it hard to believe that SHIELD doesn't have info and ways to track the superhuman community and they need everybody to register and carry a badge. These guys have Intel on alien races, can register that whole Micheal mutant thing and find out which powers he got from who, and has told the whole freakin' superhuman about how the Hand and Wolverine were killing all the masks and protecting them. They had intel on the freakin' SPOT for chrissakes. You don't get much more unknown.


i really really liked that run. when wolverine took on the ninjas with the sentinel was bad f***ing ass

[jdmakescomics]

Civil war 3


(DONT READ IF YOU DONT WANT THE MAJOR REVEAL IN THIS ISSUE SPOILED)




Ok it took 3 issues but we have some actual fighting going on. Captian america, hawkeye, daredevil, black goliath, and presumably the rest oft he secret avengers have adapted new secret identitys. The anti registration side gets called out by Iron man and the pro registration side and tony trys to make peace. Cap refuses and a fight insues. IM is basically killing cap and his team , this seems the time to give the anti side thier dues ex machina. But for a yet unexplained reason thor comes back from the dead and sides with IM at the last page.

The writing was good, I dont really see an improvement or a decrease in quality. Some characters seem a bit odd at moments (spiderman for one) but it maintains a good pace.

I loved the art, I cant tell if this means I've gotten used to it since the first issue or that its actually improving. Iron man punching captian america was the panel that sold it, caps mask was splitting open and blood was flying making you know this fights desperate. The final full pager of thor was another highlight. Overall if you hate the story just buy it for the art.

[Huerta]

But for a yet unexplained reason thor comes back from the dead and sides with IM at the last page.

Read the latest FF issue for Blondies comeback. Also read CW#3 again. Agent Maria Hill told the Cape killers to back off and let "Codename Lightning" take a first pass at the Anit-Regs.


I love this story.

[jdmakescomics]

By unexplained I meant that it seems weird for thor to be pro registration, I saw the codename lightning thing but it seemed weird for thor to be a government lap dog....mind control maybe?

[Logan]

thor was always the most independant hero out there. besides his need for his father's acceptance, he basically had no one else that he played second fiddle to. also, it's just strange that someone like stark and thor, after working with heroes for so long would just up and turn against them like that. even to the point of killing them. it's too bizarre.

[Think Tank Bob]

There's always the possibility that Codename Lightning is something else entirely, and that Thor just happened to show up at the exact same time, but that's really a terrible idea.

But it is Mark Millar, so I wouldn't discount it entirely, heh.

[Huerta]

Well the guy that became Thor or is Thor is *I think* a ShIELD agent. Thor is not in control, that I know.

[Huerta]

thor was always the most independant hero out there. besides his need for his father's acceptance, he basically had no one else that he played second fiddle to. also, it's just strange that someone like stark and thor, after working with heroes for so long would just up and turn against them like that. even to the point of killing them. it's too bizarre.


Ive fought a friend and its pretty much the same as fighting anyone else. These guys are super-heroes, so it may look like the beatings would kill them but they are pretty tough and can handle it.

[Think Tank Bob]

The guy that became Thor looks to be Don Blake, the original Thor. When did he become a SHIELD agent?

[Huerta]

*shush* Im trying to make it interesting. :)

[Think Tank Bob]

Haha, fair enough. :)

[Huerta]

Oh and I have a feeling Sentry and THor will be fighting soon.

[Think Tank Bob]

I hope so. I think that'd be a cool fight to see.

[Logan]

thor owns, of course.

[JPJ]

Thor VS the Senty? There can only be ONE winner. And that is............the Sentry with the help of THUNDERSTRIKE!!

[misfitX]

Someone might have mentioned this already, but in CW #3 why are Cap's eyes brown?

[Huerta]

Contacts. Him, Herc, DD and Goliath were undercover.

[NickRocks]

Thor would definately own sentry. sentry is just a superman knock off, and thor owns superman.

[Huerta]

Thor would definately own sentry. sentry is just a superman knock off, and thor owns superman.


I would agree with you if he was an alien from another planet, but hes not. He has more in common with Captain America and Wolverine.

[Dawnsknight]

Civil war 3

Ok it took 3 issues but we have some actual fighting going on. Captian america, hawkeye, daredevil, black goliath, and presumably the rest oft he secret avengers have adapted new secret identitys. The anti registration side gets called out by Iron man and the pro registration side and tony trys to make peace. Cap refuses and a fight insues. IM is basically killing cap and his team , this seems the time to give the anti side thier dues ex machina. But for a yet unexplained reason thor comes back from the dead and sides with IM at the last page.

The writing was good, I dont really see an improvement or a decrease in quality. Some characters seem a bit odd at moments (spiderman for one) but it maintains a good pace.

I loved the art, I cant tell if this means I've gotten used to it since the first issue or that its actually improving. Iron man punching captian america was the panel that sold it, caps mask was splitting open and blood was flying making you know this fights desperate. The final full pager of thor was another highlight. Overall if you hate the story just buy it for the art.

Wait... Hawkeye? The old Hawkeye, or the "Young Avengers" Hawkeye?
ugh... yeah, i'll stay out of it.

[jdmakescomics]

Hawkeyes a typo, this is back from when everyone thought hawkeye was the fake DD....sorry, my brain had died and I typed hawkeye for no reason >_<.


just to clear things up the new dd is iron fist....hawkeyes status is still unknown

[NickRocks]

this event is still happening?

[jdmakescomics]

Yeah NickGuy, its at issue 3, there will be 7.

[bushiboy]

I missed last issue. So IM and Thor handed Cap his ass eh?

[Logan]

only in the lamest way possible. iron man said that the suit had recorded every punch cap had ever thrown, therefore cap couldn't beat iron man. it was bascially a bunch of bullshit. every punch? sure thing.

[Huerta]

It does make sense. He even put something in Spideys new suit, dont remember the reason tho.

[kid vorpal]

only in the lamest way possible. iron man said that the suit had recorded every punch cap had ever thrown, therefore cap couldn't beat iron man. it was bascially a bunch of bullshit. every punch? sure thing.

What, you don't remember Iron Man's armor making him the technological equivalent of the Taskmaster (one of Marvel's most bad-ass and under-utilized villains ever)?

Wait, neither do I. You're right, it's retarded.


It does make sense. He even put something in Spideys new suit, dont remember the reason tho.

It was probably to make Spidey's suit disable itself when (and yeah, I said it - when) Spidey sees that Iron Man is going too far and switches sides.

I'm not buying any of this until it's a TPB, but it hasn't been completely horrible. Be interesting to see how things pan out.

[Huerta]

What, you don't remember Iron Man's armor making him the technological equivalent of the Taskmaster (one of Marvel's most bad-ass and under-utilized villains ever)?

Wait, neither do I. You're right, it's retarded.

I didnt read it that way. Iron Man's armor knows all of Caps moves, so he pretty much knows what move is coming and how to avoid it, Thats how I read it. Tony still cant fight like Cap or Taskmaster.

[NickRocks]

iron mans armor remembering punches sounds strangely enough like iron mans armor is gaining sentience again...

[kid vorpal]

I didnt read it that way. Iron Man's armor knows all of Caps moves, so he pretty much knows what move is coming and how to avoid it, Thats how I read it. Tony still cant fight like Cap or Taskmaster.

Yeah, I guess you're right on that one - it'd be more akin to Midnighter and his "I can run a million scenarios in my head and know exactly which one you're going to come up" voodoo. Still, kind of a stretch for me.

I'd have had no problem if he'd just punched Cap and said "You brought this on yourself!" or "I don't want to fight you!" or even "I'm Iron Man, bitch!" But the whole "recording" monologue seemed unnecessary.

[Deth]

hey Kid Vorpal, Taskmaster is the new villian in the new Moon Knight series.

[Pencilero]

Cap is gonna whup Iron Man's ass if Marvel doesn't ***** out on this before the whole stink settles.

Also, what's the deal with Thor? I've been told he's been in Intellectual Property storage for a while, or as comic nerds say "dead".

[Dawnsknight]

I flipped through Storm and Blackpanther's wedding... he invited both Cap and IM to Wakanda to try and settle things, then had a conference about it with Doctor Doom when everyone else left.
I say Atlantis, Wakanda and Latveria team up and make the whole thing just go away, or they pull all resources out of the US... no more quinjets, no more sea travel.
Actually, this whole thing may just end up happening in Scarlet Witch's head powered by Franklin Richards... who is possessed by Apocalypse under the orders of Dormammu and Thanos... they've teamed up with Galactus to make the heroes fight themselves, then Galactus gets to eat Earth, Thanos has a tribute to Death, and Dormammu gets to torment their souls... am I right?

[kid vorpal]

hey Kid Vorpal, Taskmaster is the new villian in the new Moon Knight series.

Yeah, only problem is they had him revert to his swashbuckling baggy boots costume, as opposed to his ultra-sleek Udon-designed one from his mini-series. Oh well.

And Atlantis is kind of busy - Namor himself has put out a hit on Nuke (due to his part in Namorita's death), with a special team of Atlanteans closing in on him (and Wolverine) in Wolvie's latest issue. Namor himself is present for the end of the first skirmish, to do the big reveal on the last page. So his attention is focused on smaller things (at present).

[dxdragon]

Between the Wolverine book, Spider books and Civil war book...I think I allready see whats going to happen.


Don't highlight it if you don't want my take.

[ It's going to come out that the government or shield was behind Nuke's explosion and the the deaths of the 600 civilians. Fury will re-appear to take over shield. The heros will unite against the government and I am guessing ata planet wide mind wipe of all the hero's revealed identies. ]

[Huerta]

HEll no.

No one is getting mind wiped but I do think there will some big drama ahead. The Government took the mists from the Inhumans and Black Bolt declared "war." on the U.S/world. Also when Sentry finds out what the Illumanati did to his best bud Hulk, he wont be too happy with the group. Also Hulk will be coming back and pissed that he was sent into space, along with Namor and Atlantis being involved if the government decides to use Super agents in a wrong way (which will happen).

[dxdragon]

I'm not saying a mind wipe will happen within a year...but it will happen eventually.

It seems that every change runs it's course and eventually everything reverts back to the way things were.

[Huerta]

I agree, BUT...

I think sales, overall agreement and the longevity of those ideas/stories determine whether they stay or be retconned. A Lot of people liked Spidey unmasking so that could stay, while a lot people didnt like Wolverine losing his adamantium so that got fixed.

[Jamin]

I read somewhere in a Bendis interview that he wouldn't do that to comic fans, Erase everything that happened.
He said it would be unfair to have us shell out bucks for a story that didn't matter.
Whatever goes down in Civil War will make Marvel History and stay there. It will change the Marvel U forever.

[Pencilero]

It will change the Marvel U temporarily.

Remember kids, nothing is forever in Corporate Comics; just long enough to dupe the rubes, but not so long that copyrights and trademarks are in danger of expiring. :P

[Jamin]

Remember kids, nothing is forever in Corporate Comics; just long enough to dupe the rubes, but not so long that copyrights and trademarks are in danger of expiring. :P

Hey!! You mis-quoted me! I'm taking you to court!! J/K;)
maybe your right, only time will tell.

Whats up with New Avengers #22?
Yu's work looked very rushed.
#21 had Chaykin, his stuff sucked.
Are they still looking for a replacement for Finch?
I liked Mcniven, and even Deodato. If Yu would take his time, he'd do good too.
Does anyone know whos taking pencil duties on the book perminantly?

[Huerta]

Yu will be the main artist. Right now different artists are drawing different issues. Which is why NA has been coming out every 2 weeks.

[Jamin]

Yu will be the main artist. Right now different artists are drawing different issues. Which is why NA has been coming out every 2 weeks.

Ah, that's cool. Thanks for the info dude.

[Deth]

i personally liked Yu's work in that issue. It sure beat his superman(birthright) comic.

[Jamin]

i personally liked Yu's work in that issue. It sure beat his superman(birthright) comic.

I guess I don't have a bad Yu book to put up it up against his issue on New Avengers. I'm used to his TopCow days stuff. Beautifully penciled pages that were inked. The Avengers issue just looked rushed and unpolished. It was'nt bad, just not his best.

[NickRocks]

I actually just bought that issue yesterday. and i love it. i never was a big luke cage fan, but with the line "im going to go home, sit in my house and not bother no one. last time i checked that wasnt against the law" i thought that was awesome. im still not down with everyone making iron man such a bad guy.

[Jamin]

I actually just bought that issue yesterday. and i love it. i never was a big luke cage fan, but with the line "im going to go home, sit in my house and not bother no one. last time i checked that wasnt against the law" i thought that was awesome. im still not down with everyone making iron man such a bad guy.

No one writes Luke Cage better than Bendis. I never cared for the character before N.A., but now I love the guy.
If they ever give him his own title again, it would have to be Bendis or someone of his caliber, like brubaker, pulling writing duties.

[Crimson Spider]

I guess I don't have a bad Yu book to put up it up against his issue on New Avengers. I'm used to his TopCow days stuff.

What Top Cow stuff?

[Deth]

ditto, I didnt know he did top cow stuff.

[Jamin]

What Top Cow stuff?

DOH!
Sorry, my bad. Was thinking of someone else.

I read that Alex Maleeve was gonna do a "New Avengers issue" woohoo!!

[darrell31316]

sorry if this has been asked and answered but does civil war happen before Matt Murdock goes to jail or afterward. Its awkward seeing him cavorting around with Cap and the Gang in Civil War while he's incarcerated in his own book.

[Dawnsknight]

to paraphrase Joe Q, Continuity be damned!

[Think Tank Bob]

I think it's just Iron Fist dressed as Daredevil.

[Yergie]

It's Iron Fist masquerading as Daredevil.

[thepunisher]

Okay, so when did Iron Fist become DD? And why?

Anyway, I'm guessing you all saw that Thor was a clone by now huh? I was really hoping for a brain washing by Tony or Reed.

I'm waiting for the Hulk to come back and exact his revenge upon the Illuminati, starting Wakanda and working his way through Atlantis, Greenwich Village, Westchester, 4 Freedoms Plaza and then finally New Avengers Tower where he brings the whole thing down around Tony.

[Think Tank Bob]

When Matt went to jail, Iron Fist dressed up as Daredevil.

I don't like the whole clone Thor thing. Making a new human being doesn't seem like something Reed would do. I'm no FF historian, but it just feel very out of character to me.

And who would have guessed that when Marvel said "A big character would die in CW4," they LITERALLY meant a big character?

[jdmakescomics]

I'll have my review up for this on thursday when I go to the comic shop, of course I really dont need to get the issue in the first place since its all been spoiled for me from various forums...darn me and my ignorance of spoiler tags.

[Think Tank Bob]

Oh yeah, Iron Fist is posing as Daredevil because he thought it would convince people that Matt was not really Daredevil, as Murdock was in jail. He thinks he's been hired by Foggy Nelson, but it's someone else that's really behind it all.

[thepunisher]

Interesting. I wonder who would have hired him.

I personally thought it was bullseye since he had done it before, this time attempting to go legit with it though since the registration act and all that. It wasn't until a few days ago I heard about Iron Fist as DD.

I agree with you on the whole "Reed not condoning cloning" thing. But he's a logical person,and when argued about cloning logically to help the 'logical' act of registering heroes, he would find it ok. Plus Tony is a savvy businessman and scientist who can find the right words to get anyone to go along with just about anything HE believes in. Especially other scientists on his level who are also on his side.

[DancingDoorGuy]

So any ideas about who the masked guy (that was spying on the heroes that were leaving cap's team) was? I don't think it was a government spook or anything...b/c that would mean they knew where cap's hind out was before this issue.
hey maybe it was Ben Reilly come back from the dead to kick spidermans a$$ for turning into a corprate gopher-boy.

[JPJ]

My guesses are:

Clint Barton: Eh? EH? EH?!?! eh...a guy can hope.

Steve Rogers: That's right, I said it! If Tony and Reed are cloning heroes, I can totally see them cloning Steve to infilitrate Cap's team and take over his role to sway the heroes over for registration. That would be the most...logical choice?

John Walker: Where's the US Agent during this war? He's taken Cap's spot before, myabe he's spying on Cap's team for Tony to infiltrate.

[Think Tank Bob]

Well, Hawkeye is supposed to be in New Avengers....26, I think? So it's possible.

[Yergie]

Maybe it's that guy from New X-Men during Morrison's run. The Weapon XIII. He looked the same.
Or Agent X.

[thepunisher]

I'm thinking it's the Punisher. And NO! I'm not just saying that because of my screen name either. If you read the previews for issue 5, the Punisher is supposed to show up.

[jdmakescomics]

Civil War 4

The last issue left off with thor reappearing, seeming to turn the tide of the battle even father into the pro teams favor. This Thor seems rather arroganty and ends up sending a lighting bolt through black goliaths chest, killing him. During thors rampage cap and co escape, while Iron man uses a code word that deactiactivivates thor. This Cloned thor is revealed to be a joint effort between the scientists on the pro side.

On the anti reg side, troops seem to be leaving to register, while others are joining them (perhaps including sue and johhny storm), the issue leaves off with the pro team revealing that they have recruited a few major villians (including taskmaster, bullseye and venom) to help take down the anti regs.


Good issue overall, but its a bit of a let down that thor is a clone, and its also annoying that marvel brought in a more obscure character just to kill them (like that hasn't ever happened in a crossover), but overall this issue was enjoyable.

I've really taken a liking to mcnivens style throughout the series, the way he drew the evil thor was great, another high point was the last page. Although his art better be good if he delayed Civil War like that :P


Amazing Spiderman 535

Best tie in yet, spider-man has finally decided to switch sides. Viewing the negative zone prison that IM and others were using to imprison anti regs made Peter fianlly snap. Once the trip is over Tony suggests Pete heads over to LA to take a break from the madness in new york, he promises that MJ and aunt may will be taken care off. But Peter has other plans, he decides to take MJ and aunt may and to get out of Avengers tower so he can go on the run. But who catches him other then Iron man, who grabs Peter who is now in costume,sending him through a wall.

Another good issue, all the civil war tie ins have been handled quite well in my opinion, We saw the souring of tony and peters freindship, and this isuse gets bonus points for finally getting to the spiderman vs Iron man fight.

I like how this artist draws pete but I dont really like his renddition of Iron man, just how he does the mask I guess. But he actually looks like hes in armor which is a plus.

[Bruce]

From A review from aint it cool (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/30213)

I use this review because this guy has almost all the same problems I had with the issue.

Now, in CW#4 we have 3 major "events," one which fills the bill for the "life-changing" event; one which fills the bill for the pointless death; and one which is just indicative of the overly calculated manner in which this series has been put together.


The pointless death is that of Bill Foster/Goliath. In the course of this comic, we watched what appeared for all intents and purposes to be an utterly cold, angry, and evil Thor just tearing into Captain America's team of anti-establishment heroes. Goliath, completely unarmed, advances toward Thor, a god with a powerful deadly weapon, who proceeds to blast a bloody hole through Goliath's chest. Most likely, Foster died instantly. There was no point to this other than to advance an idiotic plot thread the writer/editors wanted to advance. So, they picked another "lame" character and threw him in front of the bus. In spite of the cheesy dialogue/narration that CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS gets nailed on sometimes, at least when you had a character like, say, Ultra-Man get killed, Marv Wolfman took it upon himself to give the character a final chance to be heroic - thus making his death instantly poignant rather than pointless. Here, Goliath's last words are insipidly "Get ready for the shortest comeback in history, Thor." And next he's on the ground with smoke billowing from his chest.


So, what was the plot that Mark Millar so desperately wanted to advance with Goliath's death? The one on the third "plot" card on his computer-generated outline for this series: (3) Sue Richards, shocked by the death of lame character to named later decides to leave Reed and join Captain America's anti-establishment team of heroes.


For this event to have occurred, the suspension of belief that Millar and the editorial team required of me was just too high. They took the father figure of the entire Marvel Universe and turned him into a murderer. No way around it. The Thor here was not really Thor but a clone created by Reed and controlled by Reed. He recklessly sent Thor into this battle knowing full well what was likely to happen. It may not rise to the level of premeditated first-degree murder, but it certainly rises to the level of second-degree murder. Thor here was nothing more than a dangerous weapon and Reed acted recklessly and with wanton disregard for others when he sent Thor into this battle. Reed is a murderer. He also is playing God in the manner in which he cloned Thor in the first place and then subjecting him to mind-control manipulation. Basically, this plot required Millar to "advance" the character of Reed Richards to the point that he is morally indistinguishable from Dr. Doom. There's a difference between arrogance and hubris. Both Reed and Doom have now crossed that line and there's really no rational way for Marvel to undo this unless they pull a deus ex machina that puts Reed under some sort of mind-control or they use Franklin or Scarlet Witch to rewind continuity in some way--both of which are Bobby Ewing-style cop-outs that are likely to even further damage Marvel's credibility with the fans.


There is such a coldness and unemotional aspect to the storytelling here that it almost reads like a computer wrote it. After murdering a longtime friend, Reed has sex with his wife and relaxes for a good night's sleep. During his sleep, Sue gets up and leaves him and drops off a note explaining why. The next day, Reed is utterly distraught by the realization of what he has done and tells Tony Stark he's out of this because he has got to find Susan and make things right! Well…if a writer who actually wrote these characters properly were writing it, that would've been what happened. Instead, the next day Reed and Tony are discussing clinically the fact that the balance has tipped in Capt. America's favor after the death of Goliath. No regrets. No mention of Sue. Hell, no mention of the fact that he has to explain to his son and daughter that Mommy has left them. Nope. It's simply, robotic advance the plot time again as we lead up to the stupid, I mean "big," reveal at the end.


Which is the other "event" I mentioned. Reed and Tony have organized a brand-new iteration of The Thunderbolts made up of utterly insane psychopathic costumed villains like Bullseye, Venom, and Jack-O-Lantern. There they go again, pulling out their character note cards and grabbing out the villains that all the fanboys go orgasmic over and throw them into the mix here as a DIRTY DOZEN-style taskforce put together by Reed Richards and Tony Stark. Well, if the Dirty Dozen had been made up of people like John Wayne Gacy, Ed Gein, the Son of Sam, Ted Bundy, and serial killers like that. It's like Millar and company are just pouring more and more grease on their fire of character disintegration. But what is one to expect from a comic where Capt. America delivers a stupid line like "You really think I'm going down - to some pampered punk like you?" This whole schism between Iron Man and Cap is so utterly forced and irrational that I cannot for the life of me understand how something so profoundly wrong could see print like this. It demonstrates first that Millar has no knowledge at all of the fact that prior to the Super-Soldier experiment, Steve Rogers was one of those scrawny little picked-on kids who grew up in the Bronx in the 20s and 30s. He was not a scrappy little gang kid. He also is not the type of person who harbors the type of immature class bias that this comment bespeaks. Cap is Marvel's embodiment of all that is best in the American ideal, which means he rises above petty biases and prejudices. Well, except in the dystopic worldview of Mark Nietzsche, I mean Millar.


I really have a big hate on for this series now and my dislike of Marvel just grew a ton.
This issue was ssssooooooo bad.

[Think Tank Bob]

Thank christ I'm not alone. I can't tell you the amount of people that keep telling me how good Civil War 4 was. It made me wonder if I had read the same books they all had.

And that review is spot on. I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with something from AICN.

[Deth]

I aint going that far. But I will say that they have not given a convincing reason for this pro reg mentality. And theres no way any readers gonna agree when the people running it who were always viewed as just and good give up all of their values and do things like mind control villians and create clones that kill.

so sad

[JPJ]

The series is definately too short. I pick up a couple of the tie ins here and there to get a general knowledge of what's going on but...I dunno. There doesn't seem to be any real characterization to this book. It's turned into a typical Mark Millar book where the base characterization for every character is a smart ass perv that likes to hurt people.

I STILL don't see the law breaking in this series. How would Cap be put under arrest in the beginning by Hill so quick when the Registration law wasn't even law? Hill should be charged with excessive force and giving an unlawful order.

And if the Marvel universe mirrors our own...isn't cloning...I dunno...illegal? Now they're letting "super cops" clone other heroes.

Now...in some of the tie ins (like the Young Avengers/Runaways) we see the heroes just standing around or if they help...and they just get shot at! It happend to Patriot in Civil War #2. He stopped a robber or something so an ATTACK HELICOPTER decides to come down shooting at him!

The concept for this mini series is good but the execution is falling short.

[Logan]

so let's see... so far with civil war..

spiderman: character assassinated (gives in to Tony and aunt May and Mary Jane rather than take a stand for his own beliefs)

Tony Stark: character assassinated (turns against heroes that he has worked with for YEARS simply because one superhero mission out of thousands goes wrong)

Reed Richards: character assassinated (he is now a murderer and a cloner, the article was 100% correct about the difference between him and DOOM being purely cosmetic at this point)

Captain America: character assassinated (the article does a good job of explaining this too, Cap does not relish saying stupid things like that or enjoy violence. he hates it)

Thor: the idea of a god being cloned makes me puke. if you can copy something like a spiritual entity just by playing with dna then the entire concept of his god hood is thrown into question. maybe the asguardians are just really powerful aliens at this point, cos they surely aren't gods as most people think of them. not to mention that no one will ever trust the real thor ever again, and if they do it would be idiotic for the writers to assume that the whole world would just go "oh, gee that was a thor clone guys!" without any sort of disagreements or a debate arising..


so yeah. it seems like millar is trying to inject "realism" and "character evolution" into a medium that has traditionally hated that shit. we want to see ridiculous costumed men and women doing ridiculous things. killing off minor characters just for impact isn't exactly new or original either..

funny thing is though that now i want to buy the whole series just to chronicle what a mess it is. if CW was good chances are that i'd probably just read it in the store or buy the Graphic Novel :o

[Deth]

I think the major flaw is that, the main title Civil War is too fragmented.

When they say you dont have to buy the other titles to understand Civil War thats a lie.

fact is the tie in issues are so much more enjoyable than Civil War itself. Because there is a fluid progression of story.

Frontlines is a little bit better than Civil War itself but even that is still a little fragmented.

I think Civil War is turning into a major copy of Kingdom Come
from the goodguys vs. the goodguys to the Gulag out in the middle of nowhere.

I'm less than happy with the series but Im gonna keep buying them simply because I wanna support this industry.

[Dawnsknight]

Wow, ok. see this is why I don't follow comics anymore.
I understand character evolution, I understand change, but that all makes no sense.
The idea of cloning Thor is insane. I can understand the idea of the "Pro-Reg" group wanting a powerhouse like Thor... and even Richards giving in and doing experimentation using mutant growth hormones and s#!t, but man... that just does not work.
I don't think I can ever read a Marvel comic again, to be honest... the last few Ive flipped through I've been far less than happy with.

[Huerta]

so let's see... so far with civil war..

spiderman: character assassinated (gives in to Tony and aunt May and Mary Jane rather than take a stand for his own beliefs)

Tony Stark: character assassinated (turns against heroes that he has worked with for YEARS simply because one superhero mission out of thousands goes wrong)

Reed Richards: character assassinated (he is now a murderer and a cloner, the article was 100% correct about the difference between him and DOOM being purely cosmetic at this point)

Captain America: character assassinated (the article does a good job of explaining this too, Cap does not relish saying stupid things like that or enjoy violence. he hates it)

Thor: the idea of a god being cloned makes me puke. if you can copy something like a spiritual entity just by playing with dna then the entire concept of his god hood is thrown into question. maybe the asguardians are just really powerful aliens at this point, cos they surely aren't gods as most people think of them. not to mention that no one will ever trust the real thor ever again, and if they do it would be idiotic for the writers to assume that the whole world would just go "oh, gee that was a thor clone guys!" without any sort of disagreements or a debate arising..


so yeah. it seems like millar is trying to inject "realism" and "character evolution" into a medium that has traditionally hated that shit. we want to see ridiculous costumed men and women doing ridiculous things. killing off minor characters just for impact isn't exactly new or original either..

funny thing is though that now i want to buy the whole series just to chronicle what a mess it is. if CW was good chances are that i'd probably just read it in the store or buy the Graphic Novel :o


Theyre not gods. In Earth X they were explained they were ancient aliens in disguise. ALso I remember SS being cloned and some other impossible powerful characters in the past, so it isnt a stretch... Its comics, its not like theyre really cloning Buddha or some ish. If I took things like that seriously, I wouldnt be reading super-hero comics.

[JPJ]

Earth X took place in a "What If...?" type future. So what holds true there probably doesn't hold true in regular Marvel continuity.

[Deth]

Bah, Im reading the whole series, every freakin issue. Good or bad. I disagree with some of the things they are doing with the characters. mainly Mister Fantastic. but that doesnt stop me from liking Mr Fantastic for the character I know him to be. 5 years from now when all this crud is past us Mr Fantastic, Ironman, and all the rest of the people that are being written out of character will go back to their normal self. So I mean, ride out the wave. whether you read it or not they are still the characters you know and sometimes love, regardless of how they are being written. And I know this sounds very farfetched but if you dont show them your support now. There might not be any Mr fantastic or Ironman to support later. Thats how I see it anyway.

[jdmakescomics]

I feel the same way about mr fantastic and iron man, I like both of these characters but I see them hated on a lot becasue of civil war. This reminds me of when everyone hated batman after tower of babel...

[kid vorpal]

I feel the same way about mr fantastic and iron man, I like both of these characters but I see them hated on a lot becasue of civil war. This reminds me of when everyone hated batman after tower of babel...

Not me - that made Batman more badass, in my opinion. If anyone was going to have a bunch of contingency plans to deal with his "teammates", this is the guy. Made total sense to me.

The ones who hated are the ones who miss the Bat Shark-repellant days. And, um...yeah. I'll just let that speak for itself.

[Huerta]

Earth X took place in a "What If...?" type future. So what holds true there probably doesn't hold true in regular Marvel continuity.


We'll see.:cool:

[Dawnsknight]

I feel the same way about mr fantastic and iron man, I like both of these characters but I see them hated on a lot becasue of civil war. This reminds me of when everyone hated batman after tower of babel...
Well, honestly, I haven't been keeping up.
Are they putting any kind of regret or guilt on Mr.F? a character like his would most likely feel guilty for going too far... look how bad he felt about Ben Grimm for a while?
just my 2 cents... sorry.

[jdmakescomics]

They only started to hint that reed might not feel the best about it in amazing spider-man. Wheras in the main civil war book hes cold and calculating. Now that I think about it amazing was the only place I saw where they explained iron mans reasons a bit better, JMS should be writing civil war -_-

[Dawnsknight]

See, there, that would make more sense... explaining motivations, having characters show regret... I mean, everytime Havok turned evil in X-Men, it was because an evil telepath was controlling him somehow - here, they are being asses because... they can? But if at some point Richards turns around and says "what the f*@&? this is what Victor would do... is what I'm doing really what I believe in?" then I'd buy into it a bit more.

[Deth]

Yeah If you read the side stories it does make so much more sense. Whoever said you could read Civil War as a stand alone series was lying his ass off. The thing with Reed is that when Sue left him he just kept going like his marriage didnt mean nothing. Now I know Reed is an absent minded professor. Which is why Sue complains (nags) ALOT. During those times Reed was never uncaring about his marriage or his family. He was simply forgetful and put too much emphasis on his RESEARCH. Now if a situation like Sue, Johnny and Ben leaving occurred which it has, I am positive Reed would take a step back and re-evaluate the situation. In this story they have Reed as a cold bastard who's thinking about some long dead uncle rather than his current family. From the FF's that I have read I dont think that that is what Reed would do at all.

[PianoRoll]

I'm positive the masked man in Civil War 4 is the punisher. He looks to intense and hateful not to be. And, if you reference Thor's Hammer in the 2099-verse, he once killed thor with a plasma gun. I'm sure he's up to something similar in this run.

[JPJ]

Anybody else dig Amazing Spiderman's series Civil War tie in better than Civil War itself?

Quick question...anybody know the actual chronological order for the whole shebang? It seems Young Avengers/Runaways kinda conflicts with the actual mini series.

[bushiboy]

Who's wearing the Venom symbiote now?


Edit: Nevermind, I looked it up and it's the Scorpion.

[Logan]

i know. sucks, huh? i know a lot of people hated venom, but i wasn't one of them. i just thought he sucked but i didn't have the time in my life to commit to full on hate.

things change. i fuggin hate gargan as venom.

[jdmakescomics]

I like gargan as venom, the design is cool. Plus the MK knights arc he appeared in was the first time in a while that I gave a crap about venom.

[Logan]

i don't know. i can think of a lot of cooler people to get the symbiote rather than gargan.

[bushiboy]

Flash Thompson.

Or Aunt May.

[bushiboy]

Wow, double post. How did I do that?

[Logan]

flash would be a nice touch. i was thinking that basically someone not even connected to the spiderman titles would be nice. punisher or kraven would be interesting imo

[JPJ]

Flash would have been interesting.

I would have gone with one of Peter's students, maybe? Bring in a new character. Whatever happend to the smart girl from the Revelations storyline? Jennifer, was it? The homeless girl? Kinda a reverse Peter Parker situation of Amazing Fantasy.

[JPJ]

Anybody pick up the Choosing Sides one-shot?

Good fun.

Not too sure on the last story. Was that supposed to deal with Civil War in some way that I just don't "get" yet?

After reading this I'm sold on the Oeming Omega Flight project. The Ant Man story was good fun. Eager for the new T-Bolts.

[bushiboy]

I haven't gotten every issue or tie-in, just ones that looked like they had fights I'd wanna see. Has Luke Cage tore into anyone bigtime yet? I'll buy that one.

[Huerta]

I haven't gotten every issue or tie-in, just ones that looked like they had fights I'd wanna see. Has Luke Cage tore into anyone bigtime yet? I'll buy that one.


New Avengers #22 is the one u want.

Choosing sides was good. Anything with Lienel Yu art is worth the pick up; he draws one badass Venom.

[dfbovey]

Yu's Venom is definitely different than most I've seen. I like it alot.

http://www.highfiber.org/content.php?s=images&a=view&id=15525

[JPJ]

Yu should be the next Thunderbolts artist instead of Deodato. Keep Deodato on Squadron Supreme.

[bbbearcounty]

Leinil Yu is supposed to be the regular artist for
New Avengers once the Disassembled arc wraps.

Sneak Peek Pencils (for anyone in the dark.)
http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF20art/newavengers26-6_copy_t.jpg (http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF20art/newavengers26-6_copy.jpg) http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF20art/newavengers26-7_copy_t.jpg (http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF20art/newavengers26-7_copy.jpg)
http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF20art/newavengers26-8-9-copy_t.jpg (http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF20art/newavengers26-8-9-copy.jpg)

[Dawnsknight]

Schweet.
Love it... though... is Echo still pretending to be a man????

[bbbearcounty]

i've been wondering what Bendis was intending on doing
with Echo. so, who do you think will be in the New Avengers
post Civil War? anyone? anyone? well, me thinks...

-Captain America
-Spider-Woman
-Luke Cage
-Ronin (Echo)

um... i have no clue who else. i'm sure they'll keep Spidey
away from the Avengers because of his actions in Civil War
and i'm not sure if there are any plans on Wolverine returning.
maybe Moon Knight will join. that'd be neat.

[Dawnsknight]

Oh, I haven't been reading, did Spidey turn like EVERYONE expected him to?

[JPJ]

If Bendis still writes New Avengers after Civil War he's gonna make a team opposite of his Mighty Avengers book. With characters that have the power to..I dunno...do karate and be ninjas and not fly.

You know...Earth's Mightiest Heroes?


Somebody get Brad Meltzer on Avengers or something.

[Dawnsknight]

If Bendis still writes New Avengers after Civil War he's gonna make a team opposite of his Mighty Avengers book. With characters that have the power to..I dunno...do karate and be ninjas and not fly.


So... Shang Chi... de-powered Iron Fist, Elektra, de-powered Psylocke, probably some old guy dressed as a monk... and... yeah... that's all I got... maybe de-powered Task Master and de-powered Daredevil?

[Think Tank Bob]

Oh, I haven't been reading, did Spidey turn like EVERYONE expected him to?


In the most recent issue of Amazing Spider-Man, he starts to turn against Iron Man, and it ends with them starting to fight.

[bbbearcounty]

Well, that chick from the Secret War and The Collective arc
who looks a lot like Angelina Jolie will probably join now.

[JPJ]

And that White Tiger chick.

Lets not forget he'll probably create another character that's been best friends with all of Marvel's main characters throughout it's entire history and has the power to talk..like..what? No. I mean--(wow) NO! No. (...no)

Ya know?

And can do kung fu...and......uh....kung fu?

[JPJ]

Well.....just read issue 5.




What the ****?

Is...is this IT for this issue?

Is this what took so long?

Is it just me or did the ending of this issue not make ANY sense?

Definately a let down.

[joshdahl]

This far, the only weak points in Civil War are the following points..

The 'throw away' deaths are making the main characters seem untouchable. I suppose the idea is to make us think "If Goliath could die...then anyone could be on the chopping block.", but the actual effect is the opposite. We know that they are only going to be killing characters like Goliath. I admit, this is a very weak complaint. I don't read my comic for the deaths.

The registration side just does not seem as strong as the anti-registration side. I mea their arguemet just does not FEEL as sound. They both have strong facts on their side, but the pre-registration side just does not have the emotional punch. The problem is that it is very dificult to SHOW a swelling shift in public opinion. This is a shame, because public opinion is really what Iron Man is guarding against.

On the other hans, this is an encredibly exciting comic book.
Some of the best super-hero stuff I have ever read.

Josh Dahl

Rapid City (http://www,monolithllc.com)

http://www.thecapesymposium.com

[Dawnsknight]

Well.....just read issue 5.
What the ****?
Is...is this IT for this issue?
Is this what took so long?
Is it just me or did the ending of this issue not make ANY sense?
Definately a let down.


WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAAAAAT?!
don't you know i live vicariously through you all?!?