You swipe, and you're gonna get caught

[Inkthinker]

Got this from Johnston's LitG Swipe File (http://comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13) this week... and this one is just... RIDICULOUSLY eggregious.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1629713

Apparently one of the latest Tokyopop RSOM top 20 did a fine job of swiping Hiroaki Samura's Blade of the Immortal. Not just a panel... several panels, and in one case a whole page of sequentials.

WHY? Why do people even try this crap? Not only are you likely to get caught (personally I hope this kid gets slammed hard by Tokyopop), but can't they understand that if they make a career based on bullshit, then they can't compete when time comes to really rock? When the editor hands you a script and tells you to have it done in 30 days, what will you do then... continually rip panels and layouts to the point that you risk a lawsuit? Draw crap, because you can't work without tracing someone else's art? It's not just sad... it's stupid.

THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS TO SUCCESS AS AN ARTIST.

Quit looking for 'em, dammit!! There is no magic pill, no secret book, no goddamn fancy pen that makes you a better artist or brings you success. Criminy christmas, I want to slap every kid who traces a panel and then tries to claim it as original work upside the head with a t-square!

How can we convince the kids these days of the utter idiocy inherent in a move like this? It's one of the surest ways to completely torpedo your career and reputation.

[Chico Blue]

Yeesh. Lazy kids. That Liefeld picture (http://images.comicbookresources.com/litg/liefeld_xmen.jpg) further down the page is pretty funny, but atleast he's not tracing. :)

[Inkthinker]

I dunno if he's really "copying" for that matter... can't see the actual artwork. He might just be using the cover for some costume reference or something.

The difference between Rob and this other kid too, is that despite our various opinions of Leifeld, that man has an established career... this other kid is a fresh face.

So if Rob gets caught in a swipe, he still has a huge body of work to point to. I'm not sure he should but he can.

Whereas this other kid has shot himself in the head with the starting pistol. To do this, of all point, at the BEGINNING of your career... it's a 'tard move no matter what, but it's double-'tarded for a greenie, because now THAT is his ENTIRE rep; as a weak-ass swiper who can't hold up on his own. It doesn't even matter if it's true or not... it's what people will think when they look at his work.

[ielle77]

okay, so i get the whole, don't copy thing. And some of those pics you have on there are ridiculously copied, But if you're having a hard time getting the angle of say... an underside of a jaw and you find something like the segment with the guy being kicked in the face. you can't borrow that same angle of the jawline, with your OWN character and your OWN action for how he got that way? I mean people own body positions now???

How about the head in hands for the side pick. I mean so the guy owns the head in the hands position? I can see the fact that the stupid kid kept a character with the same clothing and similar hairstyle, but he switched up the background... had he changed the character to say, nike shoes, baggy pants and a bald head would that STILL be considered a swipe just because both are of men from the side holding their head in their hands? That doesn't seem fair. I mean okay... he shouldn't copy YES, i agree. And he shouldn't try to pass it off as his own.. CERTAINLY! But you can't OWN a position of the body, right?

[xadrian]

Man, so bad that the links are now gone.

I hope they are thoroughly embarrassed and are blackballed from the artistic, American comic and manga collective.

That's unconscionable.

[Huerta]

okay, so i get the whole, don't copy thing. And some of those pics you have on there are ridiculously copied, But if you're having a hard time getting the angle of say... an underside of a jaw and you find something like the segment with the guy being kicked in the face. you can't borrow that same angle of the jawline, with your OWN character and your OWN action for how he got that way? I mean people own body positions now???

How about the head in hands for the side pick. I mean so the guy owns the head in the hands position? I can see the fact that the stupid kid kept a character with the same clothing and similar hairstyle, but he switched up the background... had he changed the character to say, nike shoes, baggy pants and a bald head would that STILL be considered a swipe just because both are of men from the side holding their head in their hands? That doesn't seem fair. I mean okay... he shouldn't copy YES, i agree. And he shouldn't try to pass it off as his own.. CERTAINLY! But you can't OWN a position of the body, right?


The dude stole panel for panel, the pace and the layouts... NOTHING IS HIS. This isnt about owning body positions, which is the composition, he just ripped the pages. How would you feel ielle, if Batman Begins followed BATMAN frame by frame?

[xadrian]

But you can't OWN a position of the body, right?

No, you can't. But you can own a piece of artwork that puts all those positions, costumes and lighting into a set image.

[Karim]

that's just sad

[Singles]

If the artist just drew a picture of a guy with his head in his hands, then it wouldn't be a swipe, but, given the other examples, it's more than likely they traced or directly copied it. Otherwise, there would probably be some little differences or at least different clothes. This is beyond looking at something for reference, it's a cheat. I, too, hope they hit this person hard.

[Dash Martin]

I've had trouble with drawing some parts of a person in a pic before, but I just find a photo on google with the body part in a similar position and physique and use it as reference. I can't see using other comic art as reference though. Where's the fun in that?

[Justice41]

The Greg Land of TokyoPop.

[Justice41]

Comic art should only be used to learn how to either render(not draw) or ink. But once you know leave it alone.

[xadrian]

Is it just me or does Justice finally have an avatar?

Conformist!

[nevermore]

wow. thats pretty blatant and bad. I guess its the top 19 now? or are they letting him slide foreward with this still?

A friend of mine made it up to the top 20. hers is saint of hearts. :)

[Knigge]

I've had trouble with drawing some parts of a person in a pic before, but I just find a photo on google with the body part in a similar position and physique and use it as reference.
All great artists use reference.

All.

[nevermore]

All great artists use reference.

All.

they use reference.

not a light box :P

[Knigge]

they use reference.

not a light box :P
I didn't say that. I was quoting, Meth. :rolleyes: Read.

[nevermore]

I figured you werent condoning lightboxing, simply clarifying because you sounded almost to side with the Liefeld-wannabe. ;) lol.

[Knigge]

No. I don't condone lightboxing, unless it's your own sketch.

[Dash Martin]

All great artists use reference.

All.

HA! You accidently called me a great artist. You'll never live that down. :D heh

[ielle77]

The dude stole panel for panel, the pace and the layouts... NOTHING IS HIS. This isnt about owning body positions, which is the composition, he just ripped the pages. How would you feel ielle, if Batman Begins followed BATMAN frame by frame?

no, no i get it. I get why in this instance the person is DEAD wrong.

I was just confused as to where they draw the line.
When it becomes, oh they are both people kneeling with their hands in their head from the side
and when they are... HEY YOU RIPPED ME OFF a-hole!

[xadrian]

it's like fingerprint matching, there are certain degrees it has to match before people will be called out, but a good rule of thumb is if you can fade one picture and lay it over the top and have it be really really similar to the other, it's a swipe.

we're talking whole pictures (panels) now, not just hands and heads and stuff, that would take some serious sleuth word to figure out, but I'm sure it's done just as regularly.

[Kingsley]

You'd have to be a real moron or have no confidence to swipe an entire page.

Swiping, tracing, and copying other artist is completely fine as long as you don't show it to anyone else.

[Pardot Kynes]

Wow. That's pretty stupid.
How could he have not thought it would be noticed?
Who knows, maybe he did and just didn't care.

Now, I'm off to finish my novel, Armenian Gods.

[krikkit13]

That's ridiculous. Look at how much effort he put into swiping - he created an entire page of swiped panels from different storylines. That's some impressive swiping.:rolleyes:

[jacon]

Is it just me or does Justice finally have an avatar?

Conformist!
he used to have a hobbes avatar for the longest time

[Miss V]

Aside from the panel swiping, the concept behind Samurai Zombie is also a blatent rip-off of Blade of the Immortal.

I'm sure the Tokyopop editors know at this point (as this has been posted on Livejournals and forums that some of them read), so I'm certain that it won't place. Personally I think they should take it down and make a point that ripping off others people work will get you disqualified, but I'm not in charge.

I'm surprised that it wasn't caught. I'd imagine at least a couple of the Tokyopop editors might read Blade of the Immortal. I thought the artist was at least trying very hard to look like Samura after looking at page 2. I didn't bother to look at the whole comic until I heard about the swiping.

Edit: I take back my comment about the editors reading BoTI. Apparently the ones who picked the finalists had not read it. :/

[Justice41]

Is it just me or does Justice finally have an avatar?

Conformist!
Yes, and it fits.:D

[Inkthinker]

Man, so bad that the links are now gone.

I think the page just got overloaded. It's back now, at least.

Look, I'm willing to forgive the occasional panel, pose or headshot. Hell, I know what it's like when deadlines are crushing and you need something done and you're just not getting it yourself. People do what they feel they gotta do when they gotta do it. Shit happens, and any of us who do this drawing thing all day know it.

But an entire frickin PAGE of swiped panels? That's just retardedness... as someone said, I think this kid put as much effort into swiping as any of us might have put into just drawing it properly.

The part that kills me is that some of the rest of his work, the (I assume) original stuff, ain't half-bad. It's a shame that his decision to blatantly lightbox the work of another artist makes a mockery of everything else he's done.

[Singles]

Yes, and it fits.:D

I always imagined you in something like this.

http://chickenmafia.com/pictures/troll.jpg

[Justice41]

Is that like a racial joke? Are you trying to imply I'm some kinda buckwheat looking character? Think quick, think clearly, your standing relies on it.

[Inkthinker]

No need for the guns just yet... I think he's referring more to you as a troll. :rolleyes:

[Pencilero]

That rascally Buckwheat, oh he's such a character! :P :P :P

If you're gonna swipe, at least make it obscure. Christ. This is just retardedly blatant. I hope someone gets a punch to the groin for this.

[Chris Piers]

Is that like a racial joke? Are you trying to imply I'm some kinda buckwheat looking character? Think quick, think clearly, your standing relies on it.

Dude, it's a picture of a troll and you know it. Don't try to create a race issue where there is none.

[thepunisher]

http://chickenmafia.com/pictures/troll.jpg
I don't know. He could be high-yella! He does sort of favor Kid from Kid-N-Play.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/DanFlo/Hfkp.jpg

[dmario]

stay on target...


*i cant shake him*


stay on target

[Inkthinker]

The girl that did the original comparison shots added a few more examples to the Portfolio of Pain. Yes, that's right, apparently there's more.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1629713

Man, now I want to see this submission just to find out how many panels weren't, at best, highly "inspired".

I'd also like to hear Tokyopop's official statement on this. We're interested now... what are the consequences of this guy's actions?

[G-man_2000]

Funny thing is almost a year ago my homie got his half-fro permed at my brothers house and with the face he got he looked just like a “treasure troll“. I’m sorry but some bothers with wide heads and wide nose’s and large ears don’t need their hair permed up like “Don king”!:eek: :D

[Mechangel]

This isn't the first Tokyopop artist to get caught swiping is it? There was some basketball manga last year that production was stopped on after they discovered most of the book was copied outright from another basketball manga. May have been another publisher....

[nevermore]

Wonder if we put together a list of panels that havent been traced from BotI, and put them to the test against other manga. Any takers we'd catch some more.

::sigh::

[krikkit13]

"Samurai Zombie" is towards the bottom on the right hand side. I thought the art was pretty good, but the amount of swipes is really just calling the entire project into question.
http://www.tokyopop.com/news/mangatalent/index.php

[DEVin]

Uh, yeah, just a little.

[Inkthinker]

Voting's closed, so the comic's not viewable now it would seem

drat, I missed it.

[Akira X]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/DanFlo/Hfkp.jpg

I admire your refusal to select a clear photo to post.

[Miss V]

This isn't the first Tokyopop artist to get caught swiping is it? There was some basketball manga last year that production was stopped on after they discovered most of the book was copied outright from another basketball manga. May have been another publisher....
That was Flower of Eden. It was a Japanese title (published by Kodansha) that Tokyopop had licenced. The artist was copying panels from Slam Dunk. Kondansha pulled the book off the market and asked Tokyopop to do the same, I believe.

There's a thread here about it, but I'm too lazy too look it up.



I'd also like to hear Tokyopop's official statement on this. We're interested now... what are the consequences of this guy's actions?
One of the editors commented on a this blog (http://www.manga.omoikitte.com/2006/03/843/#comment-6317)about it. It's far from an official statement, but it's nice to get a little explanation.

I'm hoping they'll say something, or else it's going to look like you can get away with ripping off somebody's work with no consequences.

[Mr.Hades]

If you are going to swipe stuff, why try and pass it off to an audience which some or all have read the stuff you are swiping from? It seems idiotic at best.

Like someone else mentioned, his/her artwork was not half bad.

I have studied with people who have swiped ideas/images off of others. Not only published work but from other students around them. A friend of mine has been tutoring illustration and he told me a story which I found incredulous...

A student he was mentoring showed her work, a really good idea, followed by loads of sketches and the like. They discussed at length the strength of the idea and how she came up with it. She then produced a cutting from a Sunday magazine suppliment which had ran an article that she had just swiped from, not only the artwork, but her entire idea!

What I am trying to get at is, if you pass other people's work of as your own, you will at some point 'come unstuck'.

[Huerta]

Like someone else mentioned, his/her artwork was not half bad.


We dont know that. It really looks like they also copied or traced their figures, blacks and BGs. If this made it in the finals then Tokyopop is retarded... seriously.

[Inkthinker]

"run the similarities gauntlet"?!

"RUN THE SIMILARITIES GAUNTLET"?!

Oh, for ****'s sake. >_<

There is similarity, and then there is lightboxed tracing.