Batman is not God.

[Singles]

Sorry about the religious title, but I'm getting fed up with this Batman crap I see everywhere. Somehow, people have decided that being a badass means that Batman can beat anybody he wants to whenever he wants to. If there is anything I can dislike Grant Morrison for, it's starting all of this with his Justice League run. The idea behind his Batman was that he was smart, and a brilliant strategist. Not omnipotent. With any logic, if Batman is suddenly attacked by Green Lantern or the Flash or most of the Justice League (he could take Aquaman, probably, and Martian Manhunter with his fire-weakness), he would be dead meat.

The idea that Batman is some sort of infallible, unbeatable, genius defeats the purpose of being a human. Something that always bothered me was that fans say they can relate to Batman more than Superman because he's human (Superman is far more human than most of the interpretations of Batman we see today, but that's a different arguement), but then they want Batman to be just as powerful through his cunning and intellect. The two ideas don't quite gel, though. When this attitude gets too out of control, we get ridculous crap that should never happen like Batman duking it out with Darkseid. (I didn't read the issue, but that's what I heard happened)

Basically, I think Batman should stick to street level stories, because they suit the character a lot better. In the Justice League, he should have a strategist/leader role, if any.

End rant.

[Ed]

in a street brawl? justice league but given like 2 days of planning, batman.

[Huerta]

That issue with Darkseid was nothing big, really. All he did was distract D by getting his ass beat. And Batman isnt all that, Cap could take him down, so dont stress.

[bbbearcounty]

When this attitude gets too out of control, we get ridculous crap that should never happen like Batman duking it out with Darkseid. (I didn't read the issue, but that's what I heard happened.)


That issue with Darkseid was nothing big, really. All he did was distract D by getting his ass beat. And Batman isnt all that, Cap could take him down, so dont stress.

In the issue of Superman/Batman #12:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/populaceintwo/SupermanBatman012-11.jpg

and then...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/populaceintwo/SupermanBatman012-12.jpg

and then this happens...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/populaceintwo/SupermanBatman012-13.jpg

So, in the end Batman didn't win by pummeling Darkseid, but by being
very strategic. However, in most cases Batman is overexaggerated
to quite a degree in other books. I do agree with you on that, however, there
are some writers/artists who do make Batman right and those are the stories that
are the classics. So, yeah. That's all from me.

[Singles]

That's not quite as bad as I had thought, but it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[fatmancomics]

And that's exactly the point. He can outwit anyone. Which is exactly why
Batman IS GOD!

[Trilogy]

Oh, gee. You mean I've been praying to the wrong guy all of this time now? Guess it's straight to hell for Tril.

Well, just ask yourself if you really think that your thread here will change anything about the way people view Batman? I bet you can start a Batman vs (insert hero's name here) thread/poll right now, after people read your thread first, and the outcome will still favor Batman. I think it's pretty damn absurd that the Nightwing versus Daredevil poll is damn near even (DD would own Nightwing). But hey, in the end it is what it is.

Thanks for the enlightenment though.

[sdowner]

That's not quite as bad as I had thought...

That's my opinion too. While Michael Turner is overrated, he's no Liefield.:D

[Singles]

I was talking about the writing. The art is much worse than I expected.

[penciljack]

Batman is the best there is at what he does, which is, in my opinion, being a jack-of-all trades. He's wicked smart and is juuuust morally off-balance enough to deal with the criminal element (though I find it unlikely he'd be willing to kill an entire planet just to save one person, but I digress).

With Batman, the "win" doesn't always have to involve combat. If that were the case, he wouldn't be nearly as effective. Still, I maintain that Captain America would stomp Batman into a blue and black smear if it came to a full on fight.

[xadrian]

Still, I maintain that Captain America would stomp Batman into a blue and black smear if it came to a full on fight.

And that's where he's the best, really. He knows that going blind into a fight he's no better off than Ken Shamrock, so he studies and makes sure that he goes in prepared and having fought so often he's aware of what to look for in an opponent, weakness, how to go off balance. He's like an autistic ultimate fighting champion.

If you're a mega powered creature, you don't need this kind of edge, you're a raw power. But even an untrained user of raw power can be countered with just a little thought; it's called martial arts. Not karate chop, round house kick martial arts, but the study and understanding of combat. What makes your opponent tick.

For instance, he knows Darkseid would pummel him into the ground in a fight, the only way to avoid that is to create the outside situation where he can get what he wants AND live to tell Superman about it.

He's the ideal tactician. If Captain America or Superman were half the mind Batman was, then he'd be in trouble.

[penciljack]

I think where Captain America is concerned, he does stack up quite well against Batman - as I recall it (and things may have changed since I read Marvel comics regularly) Cap has one of the finest (if not THE finest) strategic mind in the Marvel Universe. He's not quite the all-around genius that Batman is, but I think he's got the goods to handle the Dark Knight in every situation except the old standby where Batman has a few days to prepare and Cap doesn't know anything about it ;)

[Huerta]

Dammit PJ, now I feel like drawing a Cap vs. Bats pic.

And the whole blowing up the planet thing, thats when he snaps uhuh... yeah.

[Pencilero]

What the?!

Since when does Batman "kill his own kind"?

I'm sorry, I don't recall this ever happening and I do remember legions of comic nerds pooping their pants at the suggestion that Bats would take another life, because for all the grit Frank Miller applied - this is still Kid's Glove Rules comics.

Strip it all away and Bats is just a cranky Boy Scout.

Aztek: Actually this could be a good jumping off point for draw-offs. Better that than having another haunt for us to flap our gums.

[Trilogy]

I just still can't believe Batman isn't God.

[fatmancomics]

What the?!

Since when does Batman "kill his own kind"?

I'm sorry, I don't recall this ever happening and I do remember legions of comic nerds pooping their pants at the suggestion that Bats would take another life, because for all the grit Frank Miller applied - this is still Kid's Glove Rules comics.

Strip it all away and Bats is just a cranky Boy Scout.

Aztek: Actually this could be a good jumping off point for draw-offs. Better that than having another haunt for us to flap our gums.

I belive that Darkseid was pointing out that Batman is human and humans kill their own kind just to win wars within their own planet so that backs up his bluff if that's what it was. Which I don't think it was since he values human life (and a few friends) above all.

[NickRocks]

of course cap would beat batman, he has the unbreakable shield plus the supersoldier serum! he may not be a total genius like batman, but cap knows how to fight, and more importantly, knows how to win.

a better matchup IMO? batman vs black panther.

[fatmancomics]

Now THAT would be a good fight. I'm almost obliged to go with the Captain on that one but I think it's just the intimidation factor of the red white and blue pasted all over his costume. Putting them both side by side makes Batman seem like the bad guy.

[Teratophile]

Batman has beaten deathstroke the metahuman who is basically a evil captain america in terms of skills and powerlevel.


captain would get owned. unless it was ultimate cap. well i still think in the end ultimate cap would get owned but i like him better.

[Huerta]

Deathstroke is the only MAN in DC who can take Batman, so it's all on how it happens.

[penciljack]

Last I saw, Deathstroke beat the living daylights out of Batman; darn near killed him. Unless they've met since then, I'm going with Deathstroke. The only reason Batman is still alive today is because Deathstroke took pity on him.

[Teratophile]

if deathstroke took pity on batman imagine captain america. lol

[Crimson Spider]

When this attitude gets too out of control, we get ridculous crap that should never happen like Batman duking it out with Darkseid. (I didn't read the issue, but that's what I heard happened)

At first I thought you were referring to Morrison's Rock of Ages storyline from JLA. Check that out if you haven't already.

[Logan]

whoa i missed a sweet fight it sounds like. when did bats and deathstroke tangle? i'm eager to find that sumbitch.

[Wild&Uncouth]

Batman IS GOD. ANd if he isn't, he at least has a special dossier on how to take down GOD.

[BIOHAZARD]

I saw a comic book cover (in WIZARD magazine) that showed Batman towering over the JLA.My friend told me that Batman found out that they were working for the government, which he knows is bad, and he beat the crap out of them.

[pigeonmilk]

Batman is the fonz of superheros. Girls want him, guys want to be him....he is slick but not the end all be all. There are alot of heros out that that could wupp him.

[BIOHAZARD]

I know Batman isn't god but he is one of the best superheroes. And for the Batman gets his but wupped,I don't think so, I mean the biggest advantage for any body who wants to kill Batman is to kill him and make sure that he does not survive(he always does, but has been close to death). And If he didn't die than that person who wanted to kill him is in trouble. And I respect all the heroes who worked hard for their skills(like batman) cause I'm a martial artist and it's real hard to gain that much skill. When I fight in my classes I'm in the category of the strategist who studies their opponent and it is real hard to be able to adjust your skills to someone as powerful as Superman or Darkseid. When I try to adjust to my teachers skill I get beat up all the time.I picture it like this, Batman is the highest point in mankind (not people with powers, just men) and with all that he's done it's showing that mankind is better than anybody,thing or superthing.

[NickRocks]

ill just let him say it himself....batman isnt GOD.....

http://www.poormojo.org/pmjadaily/archives/GoddamnBatman.jpg

[calvinboygenius]

Yeah, I've always thought Bats was a little overrated. Sadly most writers can't seem to write him properly. Largely because Batman is smarter, wittier than your average comic writer. Not to knock those that have tried, but because Batman is who he is, the writing tends be vague or dumbed down to accomidate that fact.
Plus he's human and so far we haven't seen much of the human fallability in him. He runs a multi-billion dollar corporation, theoretically travels the world and fights crime all night, getting the crap beat out of him on a regular basis. So why haven't we seen him snap? In my mind its only a matter of when and not if.

[zazenD15C]

Strip it all away and Bats is just a cranky Boy Scout.

Yeah that is pretty much it. Not that he doesn't deserve major props for what he does, but when you boil it down...well...he is what he is.

[jdmakescomics]

and what he is is AWESOME.

[calvinboygenius]

The best representation of Bats IMHO, is the Animated Series version.

[Bathill8]

Batman is comic god and his trinity is complete with Aquaman and Superman………….

I’ll be glad to explain why Aquaman is the most powerful being on Earth(with facts), just ask.

[zazenD15C]

OK I'll bite that hook (pun intended)

[Bathill8]

OK I'll bite that hook (pun intended)


lol.....Ahh, ok, here goes. Feel free to refute..............What does every living being on earth need to substain life besides oxygen? Yes, water......and what can you find in all forms and types of water? Marine organisms. And what is ol' Arthur Curry's power? Manipulation of said Marine organisms.... the human body is what> 80% or more water makeup? He could kill you dead in an instant if he wanted to with all those nasty organisms floating around in you, ya nasty landlubbers.

[dfbovey]

Yeah, but he'd rather toss yer salad than kill you.

[zazenD15C]

Yeah, but he'd rather toss yer salad than kill you.

ROFL Who says he can't do both?

It's an argument that may have holes I'm not a big Aquaman expert so I will leave it to others to debate.

[Bathill8]

haha, poor Aquaman, no respect, not now, not ever.

[50%grey]

haha, poor Aquaman, no respect, not now, not ever.

My favorite version of aquaman is the depressed emo version in Brave and the Bold.

[sdowner]

Depressed emo? Don't you mean awesome cruisin' adventurer?

I liked the Aquaman episodes in the Justice League cartoon; he came off as a total badass there.

[calvinboygenius]

I really want to like Aquaman, but he's a little lame. Could it be the writers haven't seen his true potential?
He had a cool part for about five seconds in JLA vol.1, #192 at the end of the book, at least until he was "flash froze" by T.O. Morrow. I almost had respect for him then... :(

[Bathill8]

I really want to like Aquaman, but he's a little lame. Could it be the writers haven't seen his true potential?
He had a cool part for about five seconds in JLA vol.1, #192 at the end of the book, at least until he was "flash froze" by T.O. Morrow. I almost had respect for him then... :(


You can, and it is the writers fault. He should be a moody king as Peter David portrayed him, but with more of a harsh feeling towards land dwellers. His kingdom is vast, and has lots of potential for trials as well as glory. Don't think of him as the masses do and simply succumb to their way of thinking!

[jdmakescomics]

aquaman was cool in justice league and JLU...as was everybody.

and I agree with the person that said batman TAS is the definitive version of the character. It's probably just because he was the first version of the character I was really exposed to...but the character he was in that show and the one he evolved into during JLU and batman beyond are what says "batman" to me.

He's so determined to win an impossible war that his paranoia pushed away everyone he ever loved. Yeah...batman ISN'T god, but he'd do everything in his power to beat god if he had to. The writers probably have him succeed too often in these impossible battles...but the man is going to at least try.

[sdowner]

Speaking of The Brave And The Bold:

Why on earth didn't anybody TELL me there's an episode where Batman travels through time to team up with SHERLOCK FRIGGIN' HOLMES while wearing the Batman costume from Gotham By Gaslight to stop The Gentleman Ghost?!? :omg:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzw9PED0wHw

[sdowner]

And then holy crap!! Batman and Etrigan go to HELL to rescue Holmes' soul?? This is Emmy material, you guys.
(I just watched the whole episode. You'd be wise to do the same.)

[Taylea Chisum]

T.O. Morrow? .......And we complain about the names that the costumed retards at Comic Cons give themselves???