Who watches the watchmen? [Archive]

MistryArt

10-03-2005, 12:16 PM

Ugga Bugga

10-03-2005, 12:48 PM

I have been working my way through this for the first time. It is truly original work. Still have a hard time making sense of a lot of it.

I find I can't read it to unwind. I need to be really focused to get anything out of it.

It is truly an original and interesting piece of storytelling.

misfitX

10-03-2005, 01:09 PM

Watchmen is a truley unique project for its time. But then, most of Moore's stuff was/is.
I don't know about it being the most realistic superhero comic ever though. It spawned the whole deconstructionist movement in superhero books of the late eighties/early nineties which, frankly, got a bit hackneyed. Moore's even said he didn't expect that, and wasn't too keen on it.

As far as "the single greatest work of fictional story telling i've ever read" goes, I'd be happy to recommend some other stuff that might just blow yer mind. or melt it into a soft soup of happiness.

MistryArt

10-03-2005, 01:20 PM

please... by all means, blow the hell out of my brain with your recommendations:) i'm always happy to buy new books!!

Huerta

10-03-2005, 02:49 PM

please... by all means, blow the hell out of my brain

Just too easy :D

MistryArt

10-03-2005, 06:22 PM

lol, yea... i kinda set myself up there

DrVictorVonDoom

10-04-2005, 12:26 AM

Read V for Vendetta by Moore and David Lloyd.

MistryArt

10-04-2005, 05:58 PM

That's a dirty lie!! ninjas could obliterate any pirate crew! wet or dry terrain!

misfitX

10-04-2005, 06:03 PM

psh, pirates rock harder core than ninjas.

MistryArt

10-04-2005, 06:05 PM

Read V for Vendetta by Moore and David Lloyd.

I've read that before i read Watchmen... it's pretty cool.. it's my second favorite novel by alan moore... my favorite part in V for Vendetta was when V was talking to the statue of lady justice... lol i could just imagine V's voice turn to a fake girl's voice when he says what the statue would say...

I recently heard that Moore was working on a new L of E G book, but it wasn't gonna be on Vertigo... but America's Greatest Comics comic line

Bruce

10-05-2005, 05:36 AM

[I] recently heard that Moore was working on a new L of E G book, but it wasn't gonna be on Vertigo... but America's Greatest Comics comic line

The first two were with Americas geatest Comics line. It is the line he created through wildstorm. when he became upset with DC again he pulled the third vol. of LEG and is publishing it though Top Shelf some time soon.

darth_coolius

10-07-2005, 01:30 AM

this book has too many words in it. i'd rather read a normal book.

Ickkid

10-07-2005, 01:31 AM

I really enjoyed watchmen although i took ages to read it the first time because it is so damn dense, then after i read it first i reread and reread it and reread it.
"If Rorschach could be compared to anyone... i'd compare him to Batman... with rabies" --- I think of the comedian as Captain America if he had gone to Vietnam and won.

MistryArt

10-13-2005, 08:14 AM

yea, but if you don't read everything through, you don't get all of the story... i mean the newspaper articles and "under the hood" excerpts or Rorshcachs files... my brother never read those parts and he just didn't get it all... so even though it's lengthy, in the end it just makes the story more in depth and interesting

-Chris-

10-13-2005, 11:37 AM

Read V for Vendetta by Moore and David Lloyd.
Yes. Everyone should do this.

Carter

10-13-2005, 05:48 PM

I like V, but I was so disappointed with Watchmen. Everyone talks about it like it's the greatest thing ever, so I had this amazing ammount of expectation built up for it, and it was like running in wet sand trying to get through this thing. The end had a great payoff, but overall... meh.

MistryArt

10-14-2005, 07:00 AM

i liked V alot... beside watchmen it's my favorite moore story

DrVictorVonDoom

10-16-2005, 04:28 AM

The end had a great payoff, but overall... meh.
Actually, I'm pretty disappointed by the ending of Watchmen. The rest of the story is so intricate that it just seems like Moore wastes a tremendous amount of potential with a "the world unites in peace to save itself from aliens" ending that would barely have worked in a 50s B-movie. It's not realistic, it's not possible, and it's not in keeping with the meticulous approach of the rest of the series.

In general, I think Watchmen simply hasn't aged that well. It seems very much a product of its time, and that robs it of a lot of the impact it might have once had.

shoryukenmaster

10-16-2005, 07:09 PM

Actually, I'm pretty disappointed by the ending of Watchmen. The rest of the story is so intricate that it just seems like Moore wastes a tremendous amount of potential with a "the world unites in peace to save itself from aliens" ending that would barely have worked in a 50s B-movie. It's not realistic, it's not possible, and it's not in keeping with the meticulous approach of the rest of the series.

I read in an interview of Len Wein (who was the original editor of Watchmen - who later left because they couldn't agree on the ending) that Alan Moore had gotten the idea from a Twilight Zone episode.

Carter

10-16-2005, 09:07 PM

I'm not sure what you mean that the end isn't possible. The whole "Stop me from what? I did it half an hour ago!" thing was what was so awesome to me. But mostly, I reckon that since I read it in like 2001 or 2002, it just didn't have the same impact it would have had if I'd read it in 1986 or whatever.

DrVictorVonDoom

10-17-2005, 12:03 AM

I'm not sure what you mean that the end isn't possible. The whole "Stop me from what? I did it half an hour ago!" thing was what was so awesome to me.
Oh, I agree that Ozymandias's line is a classic. The idea that the world would unite - abandoning not just the "usual" political feuding but also Cold War rivalries - to fight aliens is just unrealistic. US politicians would claim it was a Soviet plot, Soviet politicians would claim the US was trying to somehow frame them, or something similar. Whatever the reaction to the "alien" would be, it'd be much less simple than Moore made it. I don't doubt that he got it from a Twilight Zone episode - and maybe, in that allegory-filled atmosphere, it actually worked. Within the "real world" rules Moore and Gibbons had established for Watchmen, it just doesn't.

Oh, and in reference to the Rorschach/Batman comments - Rorschach was actually Moore's version of Steve Ditko's character The Question, who had an Objectivism-guided worldview that resulted in seeing everything in black-and-white terms, morally.

Carter

10-17-2005, 05:15 PM

I'm sure the nations of the earth uniting against the forces of an alien menace were taken from a Reagan speach of the era.

"In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond."

"I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet, I ask: is not an alien force ALREADY among us?"

Not to get all political or anything, but you know. That was the era it was written in.

DrVictorVonDoom

10-17-2005, 08:50 PM

Ooh, I didn't know about that. Cool.*

*I still don't think it's playing by the rules, though.

MistryArt

10-18-2005, 06:37 AM

The end was awsome, but a little confusing, so i was wondering if someone could clear it up for me...

To me, near the end of the comics you see the newspaper stand selling all those papers that read "Russian missles on way?" and things like that... so i guess that there was inevitble war a'brewin'... and what i think Viedt did was orchestrate a mass disaster / hoaky alien invasion scare....

What this did was bring all people to mourn for those who've died in the melting pot which is NYC and fear an unknown enemy with heavy destructive power... and what THAT did (accourding to Veidt's 10000 television room) was stop the war before it even happend... Am i missing anything here?

DrVictorVonDoom

10-18-2005, 09:41 AM

That's the gist of it. Then, to make us take it seriously, Moore killed off Rorschach.

Chris Piers

10-18-2005, 02:00 PM

Who drives the Watchmen to work?

Akira X

10-18-2005, 03:40 PM

Hold up a sec.

I thought the point of the ending wasn't that the world was united together in peace.

In the end, Rorschach ****s the entire thing up. He exposes Ozymandias.

That was the most impactful part of the ending for me, at least.

shoryukenmaster

10-18-2005, 07:25 PM

DrVictorVonDoom

10-18-2005, 07:36 PM

Carter

10-18-2005, 08:07 PM

I'm not so sure about that. After 9/11, the whole world was united and rooting for the US. I mean, it only lasted like six days, but I reckon that's long enough for someone to go, "You know, this nuclear war thing? Not a great idea."

DrVictorVonDoom

10-18-2005, 08:31 PM

9/11 was not during the Cold War and had quickly-identified/human perpetrators, though. Watchmen makes it an attack no-one's seen before, during a time when people were very wary of the USSR developing some kind of "superweapon" to use on the US. I see what you're saying, but I think my point still stands.

Akira X

10-18-2005, 11:33 PM

No, Moore leaves it up in the air as to whether the guy will pick up Rorschach's journal or not. He hasn't picked it up yet in the last panel, and might go for something else in the "crank file." On top of that, the magazine it'd - potentially - be published by is for conspiracy theorists and whackos.

I don't know. They go into what would happen if someone exposed him and how it would ruin it all, and that none of them can say or do anything to risk that. Rorschach seems pretty clear about it when he chooses to commit suicide by Manhattan. And, at least to me, it seems that if the found that he'd stumbled into something that exposes that the whole thing was a conspiracy, he'd get the word out. Even if it was a conspiracy rag, a rumor like that would eventually be investigated.

*shruggles*

Shawn Richter

10-18-2005, 11:45 PM

Wasn't there something about using a powerful telekinetic charge to make the (hundreds of thousands of) survivors of the incedent believe that it had been a legitimate alien invasion?

DrVictorVonDoom

10-19-2005, 12:37 AM

I don't know. They go into what would happen if someone exposed him and how it would ruin it all, and that none of them can say or do anything to risk that. Rorschach seems pretty clear about it when he chooses to commit suicide by Manhattan. And, at least to me, it seems that if the found that he'd stumbled into something that exposes that the whole thing was a conspiracy, he'd get the word out. Even if it was a conspiracy rag, a rumor like that would eventually be investigated.

*shruggles*
Oh, Manhattan thinks Rorschach might make a difference, but the guy was a mass murderer who'd just broken out of prison. Who would listen to him when he's going against the richest and most repected man in the world?

Also, there have been a fair amount of things written about, say, how the US never really landed on the moon. Many people are aware of the theory, I think. But most don't even give it serious thought.

Also, there's a possibility the journal just ends up in the trash.

Also, there was a psychic component to the "alien," but it was just a barrage of thought. Nothing specific. I think.

MarkLCBertolini

10-20-2005, 08:10 AM

We're getting off topic...or on topic, whatever, but V for Vendetta is probably the overlooked crown jewel in Moore's collection. Watchmen is a close second, but all the parts of V made it a fantastic, original piece of work, and Watchmen felt a little scattered to me, with the whole pirate story in the middle, and the vague ending.
V was the more solid story.

MarkLCBertolini

10-20-2005, 08:11 AM

By the way, if you enjoyed Watchmen or V for Vendetta, then check out Grant Morrison's The Invisibles, a truly mind-blowing storyline and one of the most original comics since the two Moore books.

MistryArt

10-20-2005, 11:47 AM

The invisables, aye? i don't think i've read anything by Grant Morrisan.... but when people say that they've found books that live up to V or Watchmen... that is a pretty strong statement that has (thusfar) kinda an overstatement... i rememeber on dA some kid recommend Powers by Brian micheal Bendis, and Supreme Powers claiming that they were better than anything done by alan moore... and i was gullible enough to buy the first 3 tpbs of each.... :( so, can you maybe give me a glipse about what The Invis. has to offer before i go buy the first 3 tpbs again?

MarkLCBertolini

10-21-2005, 06:44 AM

Without giving too much away, The Invisibles follows a cell of anarchist freedom fighters who are battling The Conspiracy, and the Archons (giant monsters who own the Earth and want to come back from whatever dimension they're at). Lots of magic and sex and guns and crazy, f'ed up ideas. I will warn you, it is a hard series to follow at times, but if you get through it, it's an incredibly rewarding experience. It also has some of the most gorgeous art (from Phil Jiminez) you'll see outside a typical superhero book. The Invisibles isn't for the faint of heart, and probably won't please your average X-Men reader, but if you've read and enjoyed both Watchmen and/or V for Vendetta, then you should really give The Invisibles a try. In my opinion, it's better than either Moore book.
You may also want to check out Warren Ellis's Planetary, which deconstructs superhero archetypes in an amazing way.

dmario

10-24-2005, 03:43 PM

Watchmen Now at Warner Bros.?
Source: Entertainment Weekly
October 24, 2005

Entertainment Weekly has published an article talking about Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons' Watchmen in which the possible movie is mentioned as well. The magazine claims that Warner Bros. Pictures is now in talks to pick up the project after it was dropped by Paramount Pictures. The mag asked the creators and influenced talent about the movie:

In the late '80s, producer Joel Silver (The Matrix) tried to make a film adaptation with director Terry Gilliam. Robin Williams and Richard Gere were rumored to be interested. But the project imploded primarily over budget, and the end of the Cold War deprived Watchmen of its political relevance. But in 2001, the comic found new life thanks to a zeitgeist-mining script by David Hayter (X-Men). Paramount was set to roll earlier this year with The Bourne Supremacy's Paul Greengrass at the helm — until a regime change at the studio sent it into turnaround. Still, says producer Larry Gordon, ''We have every reason to believe we will eventually make the movie.'' By the way, Moore doesn't mind: He's adamantly opposed to Watchmen's adaptation for artistic, business, and personal reasons — a position that hardened after Fox's limp 2003 version of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen — and plans to give any film royalties to Gibbons.

GIBBONS
I remember meeting with Joel Silver, who wanted to cast Arnold Schwarzenegger as Dr. Manhattan: ''He's gonna be Arnie!'' We said, ''Well, he's got the physique, but the German accent...'' He said, ''Doesn't matter!'' It didn't come to anything with Joel.

SAM HAMM (first Watchmen screenwriter)
I was coming off writing Batman when I was asked to take a whack at it. I thought it too unwieldy to compress into two hours. The comic really is a spectacular piece of architecture. Trying to replicate it [was]just impossible.

HAYTER
What I pitched to Larry was actually a miniseries for HBO. But it would have cost $100 million. When I mapped it out as a two-hour movie, I looked at how Peter Jackson broke down The Lord of the Rings. My first draft was 178 pages, which was encouraging; it told me a screenplay was actually possible. One thing that has tripped up Hollywood is the Cold War setting, when there was a sense of impending doom. With 9/11, unfortunately, we got it right back again. So we did update it.

MOORE
David Hayter's screenplay was as close as I could imagine anyone getting to Watchmen. That said, I shan't be going to see it. My book is a comic book. Not a movie, not a novel. A comic book. It's been made in a certain way, and designed to be read a certain way: in an armchair, nice and cozy next to a fire, with a steaming cup of coffee. Personally, I think that would make for a lovely Saturday night.

The full article is available in the new issue of Entertainment Weekly.

-Chris-

10-24-2005, 05:47 PM

Shouldn't that be in the Breakroom?

Anyhoo...

I remember meeting with Joel Silver, who wanted to cast Arnold Schwarzenegger as Dr. Manhattan...
The horror...the h:eek:rr:eek:r...

MarkLCBertolini

10-25-2005, 06:04 AM

Let's just hope the damn thing gets made...with Jude Law as Rorshach.

DrVictorVonDoom

10-25-2005, 10:28 PM

Let's just hope the damn thing gets made...with Jude Law as Rorshach.
Are you serious?

I'm just going to assume you're joking and I don't know you well enough to tell.

Singles

10-26-2005, 12:10 AM

Moore's bit at the end is the reason I'll be resistant to seeing any Watchmen movie, and am extremely resistant to V for Vendetta. I just don't understand why people can't be happy with a comic book and need to see everything on a screen.

MarkLCBertolini

10-27-2005, 05:51 AM

I don't think it's that we're not satisfied with the comic, but to see that acted out on a movie screen, and have it be good, would be awesome. It was an epic comic book and it could be an epic movie.

MistryArt

10-27-2005, 06:50 AM

Let's just hope the damn thing gets made...with Jude Law as Rorshach.
Have you guys ever seen Oz, the HBO prison drama? well there was an Irish/catholic Gang member named Timmy Kirk... He was a redheaded skinney pale white kid... and always thought he'd make the perfect (looking) Rorschach. With a little age and time i think he'd be able to fill in the boosted boots of Rorschach. He was on Oz like 3 or 4 years ago so he might be old enough now.

MistryArt

10-27-2005, 07:03 AM

Oh, yea i forgot to add this thought... but in my opinion, if they wanted to make the Production of "The Watchmen" an air tight success, i'd say make it a 12 part *animated* HBO mini series, rather than a severly cut and edited movie, even 2 part watchmen movie would be severly... i think "bridged" is the technical term

**even though an animated Watchmen would be a pretty frickin airtight success to us comic nerds, it's not as popular to alot of people... for some reason animated movies only attract children and comic fans, not the general public. I hate it when people refuse to take a literature seriously just because of the type of media it may be on... mainly Graphic Novels & animation... :(

MistryArt

10-27-2005, 07:12 AM

[QUOTE=MarkLCBertolini]The Invisibles follows a cell of anarchist freedom fighters who are battling The Conspiracy, and the Archons (giant monsters who own the Earth and want to come back from whatever dimension they're at).QUOTE]

whoa... that's like the point of view of "terrorists" it sounds like... how many "The Invisables" books are out now? Are they still in Comic Issues or have they made any trade paper backs yet?

Paul M.

10-27-2005, 09:10 AM

DrVictorVonDoom

10-27-2005, 09:57 AM

Invisibles is entirely collected in TPBs. Seven volumes, starting with Say You Want a Revolution. It's sometimes hard to understand, because it's rarely less than insane. But I would highly recommend it.

MarkLCBertolini

10-27-2005, 10:37 AM

Yeah, The Invisibles has been over for a few years, but the trades are well worth picking up. I re-read them every so often, and new stuff always pops out at me.

MistryArt

10-27-2005, 11:05 AM

See, I love Watchmen and 10 times more than I love V is for Vendetta.

I think it has a more interesting cast, story and ART. I think watchmen is one of the most beautiful books to look at.

And no, an animated movie would be kind of crappy. The only was I could see myself liking it if it were made in the 80's or something. I can't see anybody getting it right now.

That's nice but i said animated miniseries... a Watchmen movie would be crappy no matter if it were animated or live action. Either way, a 12 part miniseries (animated or not) would be the best way to keep in from being "abridged"... But making it animated, it would be free of stupid brand names being popped up all the time... almost everything in Watchmen was from Viedt... but if they made a live action movie, you know you'd see calvin klein and cocacola ads all over it... i mean, they blatently advertised TeeVo in War of the Worlds... and it was in very poor taste

Paul M.

10-28-2005, 08:35 AM

Yeah, that's not really the point of it, name one animation company kicking around right now that could handle the style of that book.

And advertisements really aren't that big of a deal. I wasn't bothered at all by them in war of the worlds.

They have already tried to do a mini series and it didn't work out. I doubt any studio would gamble on a "superhero" series until we at least see a few more Sin City's. By that I mean comicbook movies done right without changes that actually make money.

DJ Kenobi

10-28-2005, 10:16 AM

I agree with Paul wholeheartedly.

CWmax

10-28-2005, 12:24 PM

The difficulty of making a watchman movie is laid out in what Moore said "It's a COMIC BOOK"- Part of what makes watchmen work is the FORM---The way the panels on each page relate- The balnce of the artwork deisgnand how it works to punctuate the story...(Check out the similarities of the first page and last page of each chapter- Check out the similarities of the first page and last page of the book....Alan Moore writes the details of what he wants to see in each panel and this book is a work of grand design. There are all kinds of balance and duality things going on---Kinda like a folded inkblot -y'know, like a Rorscach test.

You also have the comic within a comic- Which many people don't like - But again- If you look at it, the Pirate story is a reflection of the main story in the book.....

Also how will they convey in a Movie the Doc Manhattan on Mars- Living all time at once....

The inserts between chapters , as was mentioned above, are also a big part of the richness of watchmen....

You can read this book a few times and catch new things each time....I would love to see a movie---But I it will be real easy for them to mess it up......

CW

PS - The Current Issue of "Back Issue" magazine has a feature article on Watchmen and it's impact.

RoberteKemp

10-31-2005, 06:25 AM

Paul is wise. I agree that few animation houses would be up to the challenge and it would take what I believe to be a visionary of a director to pull off in an animated or even live action movie what was achieved in the comic.

CWMax is correct about the richness of the inserted texts added to the story. I think the only way to really achieve it would be to do the animated mini-series and offer it direct to video with a "Watchmen reader" and a free pirate comic in it. But that would never be a blockbuster though many fanboys like myself would gobble it up. It would be too obscure, however, for most of the populace to get into.

To sum up, any movie they make of it, IMHO, will fall short. If they go the extrea mile to make it the opus it is on the screen, it won't have "commercial appeal" and won't do well at the box office.

Sad but... thems the brakes.

MistryArt

11-01-2005, 01:50 PM

"And advertisements really aren't that big of a deal. I wasn't bothered at all by them in war of the worlds."

That's because you're not H.G Wells... But i'm sure HE was spinning in his grave... along with all the plot holes, you could park a car in them!

"name one animation company kicking around right now that could handle the style of that book."

Maybe no American based animation company could get watchmen off the ground, but that is understandable because animation and graphic novels aren't as big here as they are in Japan... i was thinking more along the lines of Geneon or something more professional than what we have here... That's only if Bruce Dave, or whoever does the Justice League Unlimited, doesn't get his fingers in them pies first

"You also have the comic within a comic- Which many people don't like....."

Comic within a comic? that's no easy task, but good directing will solve that problem... if there are 12 parts in the comic that are about the kid reading Black Freighter, and 12 parts of the imaginary mini series, using the mathematical art of division, i'd say add one part (wouldn't even take 5 minutes) in each of the 12 seperate episodes... it can start off being animated and narrated by some guy that plays the character in the Black Frieghter. When the transition between Watchmen & Black Freighter begins, i was thinking of maybe dissolving (wrong term) the voice of the man into the voice of the boy reading the comic. just something i though would work along time ago

"The inserts between chapters , as was mentioned above, are also a big part of the richness of watchmen...."

i agree, and i was thinking of how the chapter enders (excerpts from Under the Hood, and everything else) could be incorporated into the mini animated series and i was pretty stumped... BUT!! Good directing, i'm sure, can solve this problem as well... what I come up with is, like at the end of each series episode, while the credits are scrolling, there can be one of those T.V interviews for Hollis Mason (just one example) about what is covered. That might not be exact to the comic, but i can't think of a better way, but then again, i'm not gettting paid to come up with something better.

These are just my ideas about ways to handle the comic turned into mini animated series. The worst thing in the world to do with Watchmen is to turn it into a movie!! Heed my warnings Gentlemen! Hollywood will ruin this masterpiece just like they did with War of the Worlds!

DrVictorVonDoom

11-01-2005, 08:30 PM

Hollywood will ruin this masterpiece just like they did with War of the Worlds!
Hollywood can't do anything to the only Watchmen I care about. If movies ruined Alan Moore's work, I wouldn't be able to read League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and From Hell. And I just read LoEG 2 last night, and it was great.

MistryArt

11-03-2005, 06:37 AM

"And I just read LoEG 2 last night, and it was great."

Yea, i liked it too, but i thought it ended quite abruptly...

Kimo

11-11-2005, 01:52 AM

I always thought that the stunt ending with aliens was part of the trap. The foreshadowing from Doctor Manhattan's conversation with Ozymandias to the journal, and finally from my initial gut reaction to the ending.

In the context of this book, I couldn't buy into the alien attack. I didn't believe for a moment that the stunt would hold. As a result, Ozymandias' action have an even more horrific and shocking quality. All those dead for ultimately nothing beyond Ozymandias' god complex.

The biggest undercurrent through the book that really made the ending pay off for me-- was the contrasting the near God Manhattan to the pretender god Ozymandias. In the end Manhattan will go somewhere and create his own world, and Ozymandias is left with a world carved by his ultimately doomed vision... hence even his name reference.

Man, I remember getting the Watchmen singles month after month and tearing them apart, uncovering the idea that if comics could be written like this, that I wanted to write comics...

yea

MistryArt

11-11-2005, 10:12 AM

i just recently bought the entire set of watchmen too! i thought that there'd be more than 12 comics though... it cost me $60 too :(

Trilogy

11-19-2005, 12:01 AM

I really like Moore's Promethea stuff. In fact, I think Promethea might be a bit underrated, but Moore does have a healthy catalogue of work, so I understand.

queen-diamond

04-25-2006, 05:49 PM

I think V is a more passionate comic than Watchmen, although not so dense and structured.
I mean, while V is an anarchist rebel that quotes shakespeare everybody seems to choose rorschach as they favorite on watchmen, and rorschach is, well,...rorschach.

plasticfangs

04-26-2006, 05:21 PM

I might have to go with "League Of Extraordinary Gentleman", for pure enjoyment-factor...such a fun, and interesting concept (I cannot wait to see the new direction he takes it in).

But really, I think the beauty of Moore's work is that it is so varied, and his best works are incomparible, to me.

DannyM

05-21-2006, 04:36 PM

The Problem with adapting the Watchemen is that it is such a dense piece of work. The entire story rests on the intricate and sometimes under stated relationships between the characters. The problem being that almost every piece of information, event and character is vital to the storyline renders it almost uneditable.

I have to admit the whole black freighter metafiction is my favorite. It totally resonates with the main plotline. If it ever gets adapted they are going to have to be careful about how they handle that part of the subtext.

I think it was Terry Gilliam who said that there was no way that the film could come in under 12 hours and do the story justice. As for the guys at JLA doing an adaption of it . I wouldnt mind it so much but it would definitely be a compromise.

I am hoping the coke out douche bags in hollywood never do get their hands on it and turn it into another frikkin Dick Tracy ( a horrible possibilty actually). The Paramount deal actually fell through so we can at least take a sigh of relief for the time being.

It has also been pretty much commom knowlegde that Jude Law actually has a rorshach tattoo and sites the Watchmen for his going into acting. As for him playing Rorshach he would do ok but would not be my first pick (sorry Jude if you are reading this).

Another big problem with adapting it is that the whole tension that was going on during the cold war actually made it that much more compelling to the reader. Cold War paranoia is a healthy part of that presentation. As far as Ozymandias plans being not so water tight, just look at how hole ridden the plot of 9/11 is and how it still hangs in the air and grants those who actually set those plots in motion the control to do whatever the hell they are doing now in the world.

The sad part is just because word gets out to the people doesnt mean they will have the power to change or even stop what it is that is happening.

The open ended aspect of the ending serves its purpose however inelegant a solution. I do admit that even though i did feel that Rorshach had to go out big. Killing him in the way that Dr Manhattan did was a bit clumsy and ham handed. But then again I am not in Alan Moores shoes.

I mean hell The Watchmen is #5 in Time magazines top 100 peices of literature of the 20th century. No easy task.

Still, read it and reread it. It is just as important a peice of literatre now as it was then.

cheers
Danny

Shan Bruce Lee

01-28-2008, 06:44 PM

I read in an interview of Len Wein (who was the original editor of Watchmen - who later left because they couldn't agree on the ending) that Alan Moore had gotten the idea from a Twilight Zone episode.

There's supposedly a reference to that in the story but I don't remember seeing or reading it.

Personally, I thought the ending reminded me too much of the Bay of Pigs/Kennedy assassination/9-11 conspiracies. (Obviously I read it after 9-11)

black as the night

02-26-2008, 10:10 PM

i loled hard when he jumped out of the refrigerator at the old guy. im pumped for the movie :)

Vivat_Rex

03-10-2008, 06:09 PM

i've recently read this graphic novel, by legendary Alan Moore. In my opinion, this is the single greatest work of fictional story telling i've ever read... The Watchmen probably is the most realistic superhero story to date, and it was written in the 80s... my favorite character has to be Rorschach! i think he was supposed to represent the merciless, black and white anger of society... not in a racial way, but in terms of superhero justice... If Rorschach could be compared to anyone... i'd compare him to Batman... with rabies

What do you guys think?

Ever? In comics? No. In superhero comics? Maybe it is.
In all of ficiton? You either have not read much books or your tastes are quite low. That is forgiveable becuase you just have not read enough.

The premise of the Watchmen which involves an alien created to force world peace is taken from "The Architects of Fear".
from the Outer Limits T.V. show from the 1960's. It is a good episode with some interesting ideas. The series is quite good.

DJ Kenobi

03-10-2008, 08:00 PM

Ever? In comics? No. In superhero comics? Maybe it is.
In all of ficiton? You either have not read much books or your tastes are quite low. That is forgiveable becuase you just have not read enough.

Well that was a bit rude, not to mention pompous and condescending.

Time Magazine may not be the current cultural arbiter of taste, but they saw it worthy enough to include in the top 100 novels of all time and the readers ranked it among the best on the list. If some individual on a comics forum wants to rank it has the best he’s ever read, what’s the problem there? He never claimed it was the best in all of fiction, just the best that he’s read.

Vivat_Rex

03-11-2008, 02:32 PM

Yes it was pompous. It was condescending, but the statement was so outlandish, I had to react kindly. As Oscar Wilde would say, the public can not judge art (very loosely). Time Magazine does not qualify for any list. But, I do apologise, it was done in fun.

Walter Kovacs

08-16-2008, 12:43 AM

Ever? In comics? No. In superhero comics? Maybe it is.
In all of ficiton? You either have not read much books or your tastes are quite low. That is forgiveable becuase you just have not read enough.

The premise of the Watchmen which involves an alien created to force world peace is taken from "The Architects of Fear".
from the Outer Limits T.V. show from the 1960's. It is a good episode with some interesting ideas. The series is quite good.

im just going to go ahead and disagree with you there. watchmen is the greatest story i have ever read, ever. yes, i have read great books like huck finn, east of eden, (some people dont like this one but...) catcher in the rye, lotr, ect, and i have not liked any of them as much as watchmen. its just so dynamic and unique (i hope i spelled those correctly) and just down right amazing.

my favorite character is Rorschach, because it is the ultimate bada$$. i <3 darker heros that are not afraid to get dirty for justice.