Joe Q. sticking around...

[Stark Raving]

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=38544

Joe Quesada signs multi-year contract renewal.

Good sign or bad omen?

I don't read Marvel, so I don't really know either way.




And.....they're off...

[Knigge]

I liked when Q first started, because he was really taking things in different directions and experimenting with new things, people, ideas, etc, but lately its all back to the same old "lets create 10 X/Spider-books, use stupid variants, insert a vast more amount of advertisements in pamphlets, make more useless crossover 'events', toss every radical story out the window and hire hacks to change everything back to the way it was 10 years ago" bullshit. Don't get me wrong, I still thoroughly enjoy a big handfull of marvel books (most that come out this week), but I find myself turning more and more towards other things. I guess we'll see what happens.

[misfitX]

what he said ^

I'm still not sure about Quesada; whether or not his current battle plans have anything to do with his own vision, or if he's gotten caught up in the politics at Marvel. If the latter, then well, c'est la vie!

[Carter]

The most important thing to come out of Quesada's run as EIC is their TPB policy. I mean, they can't give away that shit in bookstores, but it's a step in the right direction.

[Chris Piers]

Overall, Marvel's doing a bunch of good things. They have their core characters in a pretty good place and they're great about trades these days.

[Popninja]

They might be doing a bunch of good things, but they're ****ing it up in a lot of places, as well. The biggest mistake Quesada is making is letting these writers come in and destroy everything that has come before. JMS comes to mind, as well as Bendis.

I know that line about destroying everything is a broad, sweeping statement, but what JMS has done to Amazing Spider-Man is downright sickening. And Bendis, as good as he is, just doesn't have a grasp of a lot of characters, so he makes the shit up as he goes. Sometimes it works, but sometimes he's so far off target, it's laughable. Or cry-able sometimes.

And the late books thing is criminal. Marvel was never late on books before Quesada took over.

[Ed]

I havent read JMS's run on spiderman, whats so ****ed up about it?

[misfitX]

well, they could just do what they did with Morrison's run. sweep it under the carpet and forget about it.

You're right they should just let Claremont write everything for marvel from now on.

[Popninja]

well, they could just do what they did with Morrison's run. sweep it under the carpet and forget about it.

You're right they should just let Claremont write everything for marvel from now on.

That's not what I'm saying. I just think there's something wrong with giving someone like Bendis carte blanche on any title he works on, and also giving him...what...40 titles to work on.

[Popninja]

I havent read JMS's run on spiderman, whats so ****ed up about it?

I left when JRJr left as artist, and I'm lucky I did because he did a story called Sins Past where apparently the children of Norman Osborn and Gwen Stacy come to take Spidey down. Thus making it that Green Goblin had mad sex with Gwen Stacy. Scary.

Needless to say, I won't be picking up any of his FF run.

[Knigge]

I left when JRJr left as artist, and I'm lucky I did because he did a story called Sins Past where apparently the children of Norman Osborn and Gwen Stacy come to take Spidey down. Thus making it that Green Goblin had mad sex with Gwen Stacy. Scary.
Yeah, that's not ****in cool at all, but I dissagree with the Bendis complaints. An abundance of fanboys are bitching about him, but I see most of the stuff he writes as a good thing and I really think that he's taking characters and books and bringing them to the next level. I'm so tired of all this, "I want things to be like how they've always been. Bendis is throwing all continuity out the window to progress characters, wahwahwahhhhhh." Guess what? Continuity in Marvel and DC is, at best, laughable, and at worst, non-existent. I think its funny for people to shit on Bendis because "Oh noes! Jigsaw broke Spider-Man's arm! That could nevah happens! I can't believe he killed Hawkeye, the weakest Avenger! Comic gods forbid!" Then the same people turn around and buy all his stuff out of habit, because they don't want to miss out. Its hilarious. (I'm not saying this is you Pop, but you have to admit that tons of people do this.)

The thing that I can't stand lately is the throwing out what someone just did before them, because fanboys bitch about progression. A perfect example is Morrison's run on New X-Men and the "corrections" that took place after him. That's all that needs to be said.

[misfitX]

I'm gonna say it. If you want X-Men and Spider-man stories like they were in the old days, then go ahead and get the old books. There's several hundred of them that i know of. I'm glad Bendis is doing what he wants with the books. I'm not reading them, but that's because there's just too much good stuff out there. Continuity shouldn't be ignored in the longer running books, and you're right, i don't think Bendis should be on so many books, it lessons the variety available.

"Hmmm, let's check out Marvel today...huh...Bendis or...Millar...or books I've never heard of and won't touch...oo! a Spider-Man etch-a-sketch! score!"

and that concludes this week of Fanboy Theatre.

[Carter]

Bendis's dialogue is practically unreadable. I had hell of a bad time reading the fat ass Ultimate Spider-Man hardback. Everyone talks... like? This...? Through...

...the. Whole Book.

[Knigge]

God forbid no one ever stutters or pauses in real life, let alone inarticulate teenagers.

[Carter]

A lot of people do a lot of stupid stuff that I don't want to pay three dollars to see.

[Knigge]

Lame defense. :p

Don't make me point out the numerous stupid things people do that I'm sure you pay for everyweek to see happen in comics.

[Stark Raving]

God forbid no one ever stutters or pauses in real life, let alone inarticulate teenagers.
In Carter's defense, Bendis does that quite a bit in Powers also.
On a related note, the layouts in Powers give me a headache sometimes. Vertical panels covering two pages with 125 different dialogue balloons doesn't exactly make for an easy reading experience.

Anyhoo, back to the Q. I agree with Knigge about the endless variants and "event" comics. I don't read Marvel, but it seems like that's the only thing you hear about coming from them. Not that DC doesn't have their share of "events", but the Marvel hype machine needs to slacken up just a bit.

[misfitX]

I fancy myself fairly familiar with Bendis' early work. Stuff like Jinx and Torso and his Spawn run and the first few arcs of Powers. He does the stuttering thing to no end in Powers. It works for a while, but gets very annoying fairly quickly.

He and Oeming did a strip in Oni color special 2002 (i beleive) where he made fun of himself doing it with nearly an entire page's worth of "what?" "huh?" "nothing" you know, "natural" dialogue. As far as i can tell, he's gotten better but then, i'm not reading a lot of his current stuff.
Yeah, heaven forbid someone stutter once in a while, but people don't want to read a book where the hero has a speech impediment. Bendis sometimes doesn't know when to turn it off, so many characters will have the same speech pattern. How natural is that?

I'd like to say that every book I buy has everything I want in it. Especially Jugs Quaterly ;)

[turnbolt]

Oh thank the Lord!!!!!

That's what we need... 8 more years of Quesada, a man I once admired by the way, staying in command of marvel while marvel keeps hashing and rehashing and rehashing the first 5 years of every superheros continuity with new and exciting and stupidass changes instead of telling cool new stories with well established great characters which everyone would have enjoyed anyway which is what they should have been doing the whole time!!!

Anyone who buys Ultimates or any other re-continuity line these guys make WAKE UP!!! They're selling you old rotten shit with hot sauce poured all over it!!!

I've said it before and I'll say it again... the only way to stop Marvel... is to STOP BUYING MARVEL!!!

...

...

Oh and for the record... Bendis SUCKS!!!! I have never found him to be anything other than overrated!!! (during his powers run... "I can't write interesting biting dialogue that captures attention and stimulates the mind, so I'll make it short and choppy and slip three f-bombs on every page and the critics will call it organic and natural...") BLEAGH!!!!!!!!!!

*sigh* ...I'm feeling much better now... :D

[Knigge]

Not to rain on your parade of raining on everyone else's parade, but there is no such thing as an original idea nowadays. I guaruntee that all the stories that you've come up with have been done before by someone else. Bombshelling Marvel for taking the names and powers of certain characters and exploring new and creative ways of storytelling without having to worry about decades of continuity is asstalk, because every story told in the past forever is just a rehash and compilation of all other stories that have come before them, which comes down to a variation/combo of one of these three stories: man vs. man, man vs. nature, or man vs. self. If you're going to do that to them, then you need to take a long hard look in the mirror. There's no such thing as originality. It's all about creativity, and I think the Ultimate line is pretty ****ing creative most of the time. Sure as hell a lot more creative than most of the other shit that comes out today, whether it be from Marvel, DC, Image, Fantagraphics, Oni, or whatever.

Take it someplace else, haters.

[Crimson Spider]

The most important thing to come out of Quesada's run as EIC is their TPB policy. I mean, they can't give away that shit in bookstores, but it's a step in the right direction.

Overall, Marvel's doing a bunch of good things. They have their core characters in a pretty good place and they're great about trades these days.

Yes and yes.

Personally, I like Marvel's books these days more than I ever have.


Oh and for the record... Bendis SUCKS!!!!

In the immortal words of The Dude, "That's, like...your opinion, man."

[Spectre-7]

I've often also seen man versus society listed as its own class, as long as we're being completists. ;)

Personally, I'd hoped to introduce man versus author as a general theme, but that might be a little too psychotic for most readers.

[turnbolt]

Not to rain on your parade of raining on everyone else's parade, but there is no such thing as an original idea nowadays. I guaruntee that all the stories that you've come up with have been done before by someone else. Bombshelling Marvel for taking the names and powers of certain characters and exploring new and creative ways of storytelling without having to worry about decades of continuity is asstalk, because every story told in the past forever is just a rehash and compilation of all other stories that have come before them, which comes down to a variation/combo of one of these three stories: man vs. man, man vs. nature, or man vs. self. If you're going to do that to them, then you need to take a long hard look in the mirror. There's no such thing as originality. It's all about creativity, and I think the Ultimate line is pretty ****ing creative most of the time. Sure as hell a lot more creative than most of the other shit that comes out today, whether it be from Marvel, DC, Image, Fantagraphics, Oni, or whatever.

Take it someplace else, haters.

Knigge... I love you, man... but you're wrong!

[misfitX]

Bitch Bitch Bitch

I've said it before and I'll say it again... the only way to stop Marvel... is to STOP BUYING MARVEL!!!

more Bitching

it's true, if you don't like it, don't buy it! too bad that it seems lots of people like it. <le sigh>

and how much does Quesada really have to do with Marvel's TPB policy? What exactly are an EIC's jobs?

[Knigge]

Knigge... I love you, man... but you're wrong!
Hehe, touche. Touche.

Misfit, I think the EIC comes up with and confirms ideas and such for the company. Everything from what a book is going to be about to what the format of it is going to be. All sorts o crap. He basically gives the thumbs up or down for most goings on. At least that's what I thought.

[Popninja]

Not to rain on your parade of raining on everyone else's parade, but there is no such thing as an original idea nowadays. I guaruntee that all the stories that you've come up with have been done before by someone else. Bombshelling Marvel for taking the names and powers of certain characters and exploring new and creative ways of storytelling without having to worry about decades of continuity is asstalk, because every story told in the past forever is just a rehash and compilation of all other stories that have come before them, which comes down to a variation/combo of one of these three stories: man vs. man, man vs. nature, or man vs. self. If you're going to do that to them, then you need to take a long hard look in the mirror. There's no such thing as originality. It's all about creativity, and I think the Ultimate line is pretty ****ing creative most of the time. Sure as hell a lot more creative than most of the other shit that comes out today, whether it be from Marvel, DC, Image, Fantagraphics, Oni, or whatever.

Take it someplace else, haters.

I could almost agree about the Ultimate line if it wasn't entirely based on a blueprint that was created 25 to 40 years ago. Don't get me wrong, I read The Ultimates, and I do this mostly to see how different they can make what came before. Plus, the art is neat.

But saying that something like The Ultimates, or the rest of the Ultimate line for that matter, is "pretty ****ing creative" would be like saying the same thing about a 2005 movie version of The Honeymooners with black people instead of white people. It may be good, but it's hardly creative.

[Knigge]

Being creative and original are two different things in my opinion, and it looks like you're confusing the two as the same. Basing a series off a blueprint created decades ago, and taking it to new areas and running wild with it can be extremely creative. I think titles like Ultimate Spider-Man, Fantastic Four and the Ultimates usually do very well in this regard. They don't just take the stories and update them. They add new twists and many times run the other direction, and they experiment with different storytelling. It's excellent because it's creative. Something like Ultimate X-Men started off pretty well, but lately they've just been rehashing the same old same old in pretty much the same fashion that its always been. I've dropped the book becuase of this. It may still be good because its the same thing that was always good, but its definitely not as creative as other Ultimate titles. And then there's something like Ultimate Elektra.... which I barely glanced through (but that's partly because of Larocca).

And the Honeymooners was a horrible example. I never said that replacing white people with black people and using shitty writing/"humor" constitutes creative.

I don't see why anyone would buy any art if it wasn't creative. Just so you can see how different it is? You're as bad as all the other people that bitch about how mundane everything is, yet keep funding it. :confused:

[turnbolt]

See to me it's like cover songs... they are cool and fun and it's interesting to see what Primus does with Pink Floyd's music... but if all Primus did was cover the first three albums of every band ever... then Primus becomes nothing more than a cover band...

[Knigge]

Doing covers is one thing, but if you sample and try to make something completely different with that base, then it can be something new and amazing. Creative even. :)

[MC Chris]

I read a few Marvel titles (Hulk and a couple of the Ultimate titles), but I have to agree that lately they've been going overboard with the variant covers and the hyping of House of M. All that will gain them attention in the short run, but they have to back it up with good stories and art.

Anybody reading House of M? Any good?

[Popninja]

Being creative and original are two different things in my opinion, and it looks like you're confusing the two as the same. Basing a series off a blueprint created decades ago, and taking it to new areas and running wild with it can be extremely creative. I think titles like Ultimate Spider-Man, Fantastic Four and the Ultimates usually do very well in this regard. They don't just take the stories and update them. They add new twists and many times run the other direction, and they experiment with different storytelling. It's excellent because it's creative. Something like Ultimate X-Men started off pretty well, but lately they've just been rehashing the same old same old in pretty much the same fashion that its always been. I've dropped the book becuase of this. It may still be good because its the same thing that was always good, but its definitely not as creative as other Ultimate titles. And then there's something like Ultimate Elektra.... which I barely glanced through (but that's partly because of Larocca).

And the Honeymooners was a horrible example. I never said that replacing white people with black people and using shitty writing/"humor" constitutes creative.

I don't see why anyone would buy any art if it wasn't creative. Just so you can see how different it is? You're as bad as all the other people that bitch about how mundane everything is, yet keep funding it. :confused:

I like the Ultimates because I actually like Millar's writing on that title. Of course it doesn't hurt that Bryan Hitch does great work, too.

And you're right, the Honeymooners was a horrible example.

Believe me, I fight with my conscience quite a bit over certain comics that I buy. Old habits die hard, I guess.

[turnbolt]

Doing covers is one thing, but if you sample and try to make something completely different with that base, then it can be something new and amazing. Creative even. :)

They didn't take a small piece of a spidey story and have it repeat in the BG while they tell a whole nother story... these comics are covers! The same story told with a slightly different riff...

[Knigge]

Actually, that's exactly what they've done most of the time. Have you even read all of them? Oh wait, that's right, you haven't, because you're sitting in your tower telling everyone else that they need to wake up. You wouldn't want to be one of those people would you? :p Do you really want me to go down the line and point out the similarities and differences? Because most of the time the only similarities are names and powers (and a little background), and in some cases neither. These aren't covers. Sorry, but you're wrong.

[Popninja]

Actually, that's exactly what they've done most of the time. Have you even read all of them? Oh wait, that's right, you haven't, because you're sitting in your tower telling everyone else that they need to wake up. You wouldn't want to be one of those people would you? :p Do you really want me to go down the line and point out the similarities and differences? Because most of the time the only similarities are names and powers (and a little background), and in some cases neither. These aren't covers. Sorry, but you're wrong.

No, I'm afraid you're wrong, but I'll throw you a bone. They're not simply covers. They're creative covers.

I've heard several cover songs that are drastically different from the original. Same song title, though, and typically same chorus with slightly altered verses.

[Knigge]

We'll agree to dissagree, then. This conversation is going nowhere anyhow. :\

[Carter]

The Ultimate line isn't covers or remixes. It's screw tapes. Everything takes six times as long as the original.

[turnbolt]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! This conversation has gone straight to Hell!!! HAHAHAHA!!! Yeah... Knigge... We will have to agree to disagree...

...and I have read SOME of them... then I formed my opinion and quit buying into the scam.