All-Star (Or "Ultimate") Batman & Robin *SPOILERS*

[Tight-Pants Jack]

Didn't care for it.

Batman seemed a bit too smug for me in his narrative, and I certainly don't like how he seems to be forcing Dick Grayson into becoming Robin . . . the very night the boy's parents are murdered.

And, Jesus, did he MURDER those cops at the end?!

Vicki Vale seems to be a pretty one-dimensional character, only able to provide T&A to the book . . . playing the role of "Dame Reporter-Babe" who has little more to contribute than swooning over Bruce Wayne, and talking about how much "bats suck" in almost the same sentence. We get it, Vale; Bruce Wayne good, Batman bad. It's terribly ironic that they're the same person, we know. Stop setting it up already.

There are dirty cops, and there are cops who are absolutley murderous. The cops here would've been fine had the story taken place during the prohibition-era or something of the like. But, I find it hard to believe that any modern officer of the law could get away with smacking a well-known gossip-columnist in the middle of a crowd with his billy-club , no matter HOW crooked the system was. These days, something like that would gain national attention. Having them drag Dick out to the woods in order to beat him senseless seems like an excessive attempt to establish just how slanted the law is in Gotham.

I think this is Frank Miller's attempt at trying to combine Batman with Sin City . . . only with poor results.

[KenKRK]

Yeah, a lot of it just didn't make sense to me. And it was incredibly repetitive.

[Ichbin Der Ausgang]

Having them drag Dick out to the woods in order to beat him senseless seems like an excessive attempt to establish just how slanted the law is in Gotham.


Did that really happen? Why?

[Tight-Pants Jack]

Did that really happen? Why?

It was GOING to, but Batman put an end to it. They were doing it to keep Dick's mouth shut about his parents being killed. As for why, we don't know yet.

[Carter]

You know, I was really under the impression that Dick was going to get an ass pounding, not an ass beating.

Anyway, I guess I liked it better than you did, but it wasn't amazing or anything. Frank Miller's short, punchy, repetative narration works great in Sin City, but it doesn't mesh well with Jim Lee's art (which is pretty rad).

I was also under the impression that this was going to take the ball and run with your average Joe's impression of what Batman and Robin are, so I'm not sure if I like the focus on Robin's origin, even though I like the idea of the story focusing on him.

Anyhoo, I'm going to stick it out for a while, at least for the art's sake and to check out the character designs of the upcoming baddies, but it's definitely a B- effort for what could have been a great project. I hope All Star Superman turns out better.

I can't believe that you take for granted that a dude can run around in tights and a cape with invincible ninja skills, but you're hung up on crooked cops.

[Knigge]

At first it was extremely repetitive, but towards the second half, it got a lot better. I'll check out the next issue and maybe the one after that, but it better pick up a lot more to keep me hooked.

[Art of Drowning]

I agree with carter about the ass pounding instead of beating. I liked it, didnt really pop out but I okay for a first issue. If you ask me, I was kinda pumped about the "you've been drafted. into a war." who knows dicks feelings better then batman? lets just see how this reveals.

[Bruce]

I was really happy with it.
That last panel and page of the book was awsome. No one writes bat's better than Miller for my buck.
the first half was the start. didn't care to much for it but what ever.
I hate, I hate, I HATE robin. always have.
Miller may really change my mind about the character.

[misfitX]

well it certainly wasn't impressive, even Lee said this wasn't his best art. but the art is supposed to improve over the course of the book. I'm still trying to figure out if i like the way Williams is inking this. I'll give it another issue or two.

[Popninja]

It's way too early to judge this series, for me anyway.

I thought it flowed pretty well and Lee's art was leaps and bounds more inspiring than his previous Superman work. As far as the actual story, it was definitely Miller. But I can't even try to pass judgment on it from just this issue. I'll have to agree with Carter's assessment, a B- effort for sure. It could have been so much better, but it really wasn't that bad. I'm hoping they have much better in store.

My only real gripe was that I wanted to buy this comic at the San Diego Con and ALL of the vendors were trying to rip people off by raising the price to $5 or more a mere day after the comic was released. I had to find someone willing to haggle, and I did, before I bought it.

[misfitX]

hopefully these all-star books will go the way of the ultimate launch books and we'll all make a fortune!

[Knigge]

I still have Ultimate Spidey #1. woooooot.

[Carter]

Man, I remember when Ultimate Spider-Man came out, and I was like, "Pfft. Nobody's gonna buy this."

And I never did.

[NickRocks]

yeah i know what you mean. i had an ultimate xmen 5, but gave it away to my brother.

[DeForgeo]

I still have Ultimate Spidey #1. woooooot.

dude, I sold the one I had with a white cover for something like a hundred clams on eBay. . . you should make some quick cash off yours!

I didn't like this comic, but I'll post more about that later.

[misfitX]

i know i bought ultimate x-men 1 but i can't find it anywhere...
the most valuble comic i can think of is NYX #3 a series that i stopped buying after #4...

[Popninja]

You know a comic wasn't all that great when people are posting about Ultimate titles instead.

BTW, I have Ultimate Spider-Man #1, but it was the last issue I bought because I didn't like the series. I put in on eBay years ago and someone bid a bundle for it and then punked out after the auction closed. I had to go through a bunch of nonsense trying to get my fees refunded and such.

For now, I hold onto it. But not for too long, or the same thing will happen to it that happened to my once valuable Spawn #1 that instantly became worthless.

[DeForgeo]

Did anyone only need like 30 seconds to read this comic? When I finished, it felt like I was missing half a story. . .

[fatmancomics]

Yeah, it felt more like a prologue than anything else. It would've been nice to see a little bit more establishment as far as Dick's parents go. Nobody's ever given these characters any depth and it would've been nice to finally do so.

[misfitX]

Did anyone only need like 30 seconds to read this comic? When I finished, it felt like I was missing half a story. . .
you mean like most all the comics I buy from Marvel or DC?

[Knigge]

dude, I sold the one I had with a white cover for something like a hundred clams on eBay. . . you should make some quick cash off yours!
No way dude, I'm waiting till it drops to a buck fiddy.

Plus, I never sell any of my comics. :(

[Carter]

you mean like most all the comics I buy from Marvel or DC?

Except it ususally feels like you're missing 5/6 of a story.

[misfitX]

that's just the ads getting in the way. like commercials.

[MC Chris]

Finally got around to reading this. It was okay.

I agree with the previous comments about Vicki Vale and the repetition at the beginning of the story. Yeah, man of steel, flying rodent. We get it.

Lee's art is pretty good, though I've never been a huge fan of his. I bought this book mainly for Miller. I really wish he was handling the art as well.

I'll probably buy the next issue or two. Hopefully things will pick up story-wise.

[Steampunk]

I think this is Frank Miller's attempt at trying to combine Batman with Sin City . . . only with poor results.

that's what i hated about it and i doubt i'll be back (i'd rather re-read sin city books than this stuff, and lee/williams didn't seem quite right here)

about the ultimate #1s comparison, i doubt these will rocket in value because shops should be prepared for it...based on jim's hush books selling out like crazy, and the ultimate line being as popular as it was, orders were probably *too* high for this (at least at my shop, there was about 6 times as many of this issue as anything else on the racks)

[Popninja]

that's what i hated about it and i doubt i'll be back (i'd rather re-read sin city books than this stuff, and lee/williams didn't seem quite right here)

Yeah, it is an odd combination, isn't it?

I found myself a little wary of what seemed to be a dream combination, even moreso due to Lee's last project, but I bought it with pretty high expectations.

I'm going to stick with it and hope that they start to mesh better later down the line. At least with Miller writing, I can guarantee I won't be nodding off while reading an issue.

I honestly would love Jim Lee to consider letting someone else ink his work. There's a certain sameness to everything Jim's been doing over the last 10 years, and I attribute that to always having Williams as his inker.

[Carter]

I would have liked to see Lee go with something like his Deathblow style, actually.

[F!]

I think it's known I'm not a great Jim Lee fan, nor am I a fan of Miller's recent work, but c'mon...

Vicki Vale, bubblehead columnist? 4 pages of her in underwear? "Cockney" Alfred? The Flying Graysons shot? On the ground?

It reads like a prequel to The Dark Knight Returns (but unfortunately with the quality of The Dark Knight Strikes Again). Has Miller really run out of tricks? Lee's art is as big, flashy and vapid as ever. I really can't fathom anyone labelling him an All-Star storyteller.

This comic makes me despair. :( I'm holding out for the Morrison/Quitely All-Star Superman to be a vast improvement on the launch of this line.

[cory w.]

I WON'T be reading issue two. It's funny. I bought the thing thinking that the Frank Miller goodness would outweigh the Jim Lee aspect of the book, but in the end, it was the Jim Lee art that kept me from TOTALLY regretting my purchase of that book.

Dick Grayson, age 12.

Give me a ****ing break. Hartigan wants his narrative back.

[Huerta]

For being an "All-Star" book, it was pretty crappy.

[MC Chris]

This reminds me of the whole Batman/Spawn crossover from several years ago. Everyone had sky high expectations and the whole thing just fell flat.
Not that this book is anywhere near as bad as those were, mind you. Those books were absolutely horrible.

[Conman]

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[James42]

I haven't been to the comic shop lately..and the general consensus is that this comic sucked? Man, I was looking forward to it. I don't understand the T&A complaints..both Jim Lee and Frank Miller are tit and ass extraordinaires.Remember Psylocke in the old X Mens? She didn't do anything except stand around and look hot.

[Popninja]

I haven't been to the comic shop lately..and the general consensus is that this comic sucked? Man, I was looking forward to it. I don't understand the T&A complaints..both Jim Lee and Frank Miller are tit and ass extraordinaires.Remember Psylocke in the old X Mens? She didn't do anything except stand around and look hot.

Same with Zealot. And every other woman Jim Lee draws.

I had no complaints about the T & A at all. I actually liked the comic in terms of art, and it was pretty much standard Miller as far as the writing. I wasn't floored, but I wasn't disappointed either.

[Edmo24353]

But, I find it hard to believe that any modern officer of the law could get away with smacking a well-known gossip-columnist in the middle of a crowd with his billy-club , no matter HOW crooked the system was.
Having them drag Dick out to the woods in order to beat him senseless seems like an excessive attempt to establish just how slanted the law is in Gotham.

If they could hit a reporter in the open, couldn't they hit Dick in the open too?

[Pardot Kynes]

I think this is Frank Miller's attempt at trying to combine Batman with Sin City . . . only with poor results.
I'd agree with that. I'd also agree that Lee's art doesn't mesh very well with Miller's writing style.
I'm going to give it one or two more issues, but only because it's Frank Miller.

[jroll]

I thought overall it was lackin, which is sad considering the two minds behind it. Miller writing seemed somehow forced. Like he was behind one a deadline. The actions of both batman and vale didn't live up to the template of both these characters. The Batman I grew up with, and still obsess over, wouldn't be so gruff with a little boy. Let alone a victim. Furthermore Vale seemed to be there just to pose for Lee, which half of me liked. But, in the end, did little to advance the story. I'm a fanboy enough to admit that regardless of this I'll buy the rest of the series. :eek:

"Whats pee pie"

[Carter]

If they could hit a reporter in the open, couldn't they hit Dick in the open too?

They weren't going to hit him, dude. They were going to tap that ass. For real.

[F!]

In this context, "tapping ass" and "hitting Dick" mean just about the same thing.

[NickRocks]

thats a really cool avatar, finch.

[F!]

Er... thanks :)

[americandischord]

If this is any sort of follow up to DK2 where quality is concerned we're all getting ripped off. The story made sense to me, Jim was not near where his game was on the Loeb Batman run, but better than his Divine Right books..... Number motivated books aren't always where the quality and creativity linger than again it may pick up......

[misfitX]

wow, i'm not sure what you just said.

but this isn't a follow-up to DK2 in any fashion. (although, if you want to talk about quality, DK2 isn't exactly the best thing to base anything else against)

It's what DC said it was: Big name creators going to town on big name characters.

[Popninja]

Also, you have to understand that this is Miller's "sell-out" work, which is completely different from his real work.

I find it funny that DC will employ him in a heartbeat, though, just because they know his name alone will sell lots of books.

[DeForgeo]

Huh. . .

How is this his sell-out work? Because it's high profile and he's making lots of money on it?

Was the Sin City movie a sell-out too? Was DK2?

[F!]

Yes. .......................

[amadarwin]

and what's wrong with that? Isn't money part of the reason people get into comics?

[DannoE]

i know i bought ultimate x-men 1 but i can't find it anywhere...
the most valuble comic i can think of is NYX #3 a series that i stopped buying after #4...
Crap. I didn't know that. That series started GREAT, but now IT SUCKS. But I have that book.

Woo hoo... EBay!!!

All-Star B&R sucked too for my money. Jim Lee's art was fantastic in places, most with Robin in the air, but seriously, there was NO story here. Nobody who wasn't named Frank Miller could possibly have turned in that script and gotten it produced. It was garbage. I'm sorry, but it was.

I'm not buying another one of these no matter what.

[Ugga Bugga]

DK2?

Frank Miller doing Donkey Kong 2 was most definitely a sell out

[DannoE]

and what's wrong with that? Isn't money part of the reason people get into comics?
Yeah, but turning in garbage just to get paid just ain't right. It IS possible that he has a good story, or (more likely) that he THINKS this is a good story but has lost his objectivity, but really, doesn't anybody at DC Editorial have a freakin' spine?

This story made no sense AT ALL. They should have just told it backwards so that at least they could pass it off as an Art House piece in the spirit of Memento.

[amadarwin]

Yeah, but turning in garbage just to get paid just ain't right. It IS possible that he has a good story, or (more likely) that he THINKS this is a good story but has lost his objectivity, but really, doesn't anybody at DC Editorial have a freakin' spine?
Emperor's New Clothes.

So then that begs the question, is it his fault that it's not up to par with everyone's expectations, or is it the editor's fault for allowing the first draft through?

I just think the term 'selling out' is misused and abused. He may have 'phoned in' the effort, but I'm not so sure he 'sold out'.

[DannoE]

Emperor's New Clothes.

So then that begs the question, is it his fault that it's not up to par with everyone's expectations, or is it the editor's fault for allowing the first draft through?

I just think the term 'selling out' is misused and abused. He may have 'phoned in' the effort, but I'm not so sure he 'sold out'.
Thinking in financial terms, you'd have to say that it's the fault of the senior editorial staff for taking a short-range view of profitability that can damage the value of the company's flagship brand over the course of time. I mean, okay, I get that DC has wanted Miller to do this for a while, and that they are gonna make money on it. As a matter of fact, it would be easy to figure out via estimate what the value of that profit is, but even without that, I'd guess it's AT LEAST 25-35% Return on Investment (ROI). So if you are playing along at home and care to guess Mr. Miller and Mr. Lee's page-rates, then you too can figure out what the likely profitability is, and then go ahead and add some more for the value of the internal advertising that they'll do here, which will help ALL of their books.

But that's also the problem. The marketplace is growing again, and this is the kind of book that has the potential to reach fans who are VERY MUCH just casual, occasional comics fans. Done well, this book would rope those fans in and hold them FOREVER. But if done poorly, you'll merely convince those guys that nothing ever changes and that comic movies might be fun, but comics themselve will always be just funny books for kids.

THAT kind of thinking bankrupted Marvel and has nearly destroyed the industry.

So Bottom Line: Senior Editors have responsibilities too. They need to look to long-term profitability and brand value. But that's why they get paid the big bucks.

[DannoE]

BTW, for my money, the best event comics lately have been SECRET WAR and HOUSE OF M, both by Bendis, who might be over-worked, but that's just 'cause he's a freakin' star who can make the most idiotic concepts interesting. It might make me a ridiculous fanboy, but I am loving HOUSE OF M, at least the core mini series part of it.

Wanna know how it ends?


































Wanda is committing suicide by superhero. You heard it here first.

That's GENIUS baby!

[F!]

Isn't money part of the reason people get into comics?Are you serious? Nobody gets into comics for the money.

[amadarwin]

Maybe not, but I'm sure most comic professionals want to eke out a living at the very least from their craft and not have to moonlight at McDonalds. That's why I said part.

but for an established BIG name, i'm sure money is a factor.

[Carter]

Are you serious? Nobody gets into comics for the money.

People used to! And like the man said, these superstars bring home quite a check for their efforts.

[Shawn Richter]

Ah, where to begin.

First I LOVED this book. For those of you complaining that this "isn't the batman that I know and love" well, you're right. This IS DC's Ultimate version of the character. And in a way, goes back to the way he was conceived - a really scary freaky guy that beats up and kills criminals (I'm pretty sure he ripped the crooked cops car in two, which definitely calls his whole "respect for life" thing into question). Furthermore, I thought Jim Lee was in fine form. Maybe his art style isn't to your taste, but you certainly aren't going to be surprised by it. He's been drawing comics for 20 years and that's the style he uses. If you like it, that's what you get. Miller's doing his film noir thing again (Daredevil, DKR, SinCity) so again, no surprises there. And if the storytelling wasn't all that compressed, what can you say? That's what superhero comics do these days. This isn't the Golden or Silver age any more, capiche?
Just to touch on a few other things that I read -
Adam Darwin, you're right. Kind of. Money is the reason to get into mainstream comics if you want to draw or write comics. The "just drawing comics for the love" is horseshit. It's not the $750 a page that magazine illustrators get, but $200 for a days work is nothing to sneeze at. Obviously if all you want is to make money, you become a doctor or a lawyer or go into "actual" business. If you wanna make art comix, no you won't make any money. But if drawing superheroes is your bag, you can make enough to, say, move to Italy and buy a boat.

DannoE, I don't understand where you got confused on the story - Bruce Wayne tells Vicki Vale (a prominent reporter) that she's going to the circus with him, probably as a cover for his escapades as Batman (if she reports in the gossip column that he was her date, he can't be 2 places at once right?). Or maybe just because he finds her attractive and he wants to hook up. While they are there,the parents of Dick Grayson (a talented acrobat he's been "scouting") are murdered and he tracks down the culprit. The boy is a witness to the murder and the local constabulary (who are obviously involved in some way) decide to manipulate the boy into keeping his trap shut. Batman intervenes and drafts the boy into his own personal war on crime.
Seems pretty simple to me....
Then you go off into left field with this one:

...this is the kind of book that has the potential to reach fans who are VERY MUCH just casual, occasional comics fans. Done well, this book would rope those fans in and hold them FOREVER. But if done poorly, you'll merely convince those guys that nothing ever changes and that comic movies might be fun, but comics themselve will always be just funny books for kids.

THAT kind of thinking bankrupted Marvel and has nearly destroyed the industry.

1) If you substitute the word "Superhero" for comics when describing the casual fans (kind of an oxymoron, but I digress) you're alludng to, I might let this pass. But a CASUAL COMIC READER would never be "roped in" by ASBMAR. Why? Because it's very much the same as nearly every other superhero comic out there. People get roped in to something and become "fans" of it when they find something personal they can RELATE to and it reflects something in their lfe or their personality. Scott Pilgrim could "rope in" a casual reader, if they could keep finding material in a similar vein (and that material spoke to them). In my opinion, casual comic fans love the medium (the format of comics; sequential illustrated storytelling) but con't really find somehting that appeals to them genre wise OR are reading because they have fond childhood memories and when they pick up a comic realise that it's got adult themes, but still mainly concerns men in tights running around in cities beating each other up.

2) "Comic book movies might be fun, but comic books themselves are just for kids."
Again, which comic books and movies are you referring to? Because ASBMAR doesn't seem too "kid friendly" what with a grown woman prancing around in underwear, two people shot dead, a thug poisoned, police brutality, a car crash (and possible murder of police officers) and a huge grown man forcing a teenage boy into becoming a vigilante. And thematically, this book is more in line with Batman Begins than most of the current crop of "regular universe" Bat books. (Admittedly, I'm not reading them right now, but it's definitely a) a good jumping on point, b) darker in tone than the regular books from what I remember of the Hush story arc (much like the movie) and c) rigt now at least more realistic than the regular universe has been lately, what with all the Identity Crisis stuff going on.) Fantastic Four is an example of a superhero movie that WAS good for kids (well better than Batman Begins or Sin City anyway).

3) The kind of thinking that crashed the market in the nineties wasn't rebooting established characters in a more modern and realistic setting. That was the kind of thinking that revitalised Marvel in fact (the Ultimate line). The kind of thinking that crashed the mainstream North American comics market was a) huge multiple title all encompassing event driven maxi-series and b) alternate covers, amongst other things. Sort of like all the stuff going on with House of M and Infinite Crisis.

If Marvel and DC really want to improve the state of the industry they have to make comics for everyone not just 40 year old adolescents (so like, women and kids!and alternate subject matter than just superheroes!) and make them accessible - lower price point (more bang for your buck) and available everywhere. It's easy math. It just takes guts to potentially bite the hand that feeds you ("comics fandom").

Could you imagine if all Hollywood made were Action movies? You'd only gross $120,000 a movie! Or all people would watch would be foreign films! Marvel and DC better smarten up if they wanna grow the industry...
But they won't and eventually all we'll have is Manga to read because Marvel and DC will go out of business.

[DannoE]

DannoE, I don't understand where you got confused on the story - Bruce Wayne tells Vicki Vale (a prominent reporter) that she's going to the circus with him, probably as a cover for his escapades as Batman (if she reports in the gossip column that he was her date, he can't be 2 places at once right?). Or maybe just because he finds her attractive and he wants to hook up. While they are there,the parents of Dick Grayson (a talented acrobat he's been "scouting") are murdered and he tracks down the culprit. The boy is a witness to the murder and the local constabulary (who are obviously involved in some way) decide to manipulate the boy into keeping his trap shut. Batman intervenes and drafts the boy into his own personal war on crime.
Oh no. I got all that. I just didn't enjoy this particular story despite the fact that I like most of the work by both of the creators. And I stand by my statement that DC Editorial should have taken a harder look at this, but then again, I haven't seen the whole story plan, so what the Hell do I know?

As for the rest, I'll argue marketing with you for a few minutes from an anecdotal perspective. I left comics fandom for ten years in the early 90s. After Savage Dragon #25 (not a bad issue, but just my personal last-stop), I gave up on all comics forever.

And then they started making comics movies. I saw the X-Men movie, and I saw Spider Man, and oddly enough it was Daredevil that got me to give comics another try. Lucky thing, too because that led me to the UNDERBOSS storyarc, which then hooked me back in at a level far greater than ever before.

Having been a fan of comics (allbeit a lapsed one) I knew before UNDERBOSS who both Jim Lee and Frank Miller were. In the unlikely event that I had heard they were teaming up on a book, I would definitely have RUN right out to get it, despite having not bought a comic in 10 years. Seriously. And then, having read this issue, I would have dropped right back off the face of the earth for another ten years. That would have sucked. But luckily, that wasn't what I tried first after my 10-year layoff.

My point is that after almost 30 years of shrinking fan base, the single largest marginally tapped market is the lapsed fan. Clearly you have an opportunity to grab those guys with a book like this. I just want you to realize WHAT the opportunity is (I know SOMEBODY does somewhere in that giant building on 59th Street) and then make the most of it. At this point, I consider myself fortunate to have gotten roped back in, 'cause it almost didn't happen that way.

JUSTICE is excellent, BTW. THAT is an example of this same theory done very nicely. I hope you move that to the NEWSTAND market.

I'm no superhero uber-fan, BTW. Actually I rarely read SH books, and my first pro script (just sold last week!) is not even remotely a superhero title. But since this was FM and JL, I broke tradition and gave it a try. My mistake.

[Shawn Richter]

Well, obviously you're entitled to dislike a story or whatever, but remember, if someone was a fan 10 years ago and they recently saw Sin City, which reminded them of Frank Miller and they saw Batman, then heard about a FM/JL Batman book, do you think they'd be surprised by what they read? My opinion stands - this is a great book for (especially) a lapsed reader, as it offers the writing of Frank Miller a la "Sin City" and "standard" Jim Lee art. In fact I think if you compare this art to his stuff of 10 years ago, it's actually better now (look at the way he draws girls hips, for example).
As far as the repetition and such, I can't speak to that, but didn't someone point out that it's similar in style to the way he wrote Sin City? I know I keep coming back to that, but I think that may have been the feel they were going for... uber-noir.
I wish I had some pull at DC (or Marvel) to get books on the newsstand. I think that's the smartest thing they could do - get books out there in front of people, on newstands again, in bookstores, etc. I think they have to create content that more people will like (Eric Stephenson's "One Hot Summer" is a great example of a book that probably won't do well in the direct market, but would probably appeal to people who have never set foot in a comic store!). But, unfortunately, I'm a nobody in the biz. I draw my little indy graphic novels and hope that someone out there will buy enough of them to allow me to keep drawing them.
Congrats on selling your script by the way - can you talk about it? If it's comics and it's not superheroes, there's a pretty good chance I'll like it.
That's not to say I don't like superheroes, but I think there's a lot more out there than that!

Blue Skies,
Shawn
www.wonderealm.com (http://www.wonderealm.com)
Buy (http://www.frequencypress.com) my crime OGN DRIVE written by Nate Southard today!

[DannoE]

Again, I agree with about 90% of that, but this story didn't grab me. I did like the art, but I just thought that the script's execution wasn't strong. Specifically, the scenes themselves were decompressed, but the story moved very quickly - almost without an transitions. It just didn't flow. I think it would have been actively hard to follow had I not already known the gist of the story.

I'll send you an email about the ones that DIDN'T sell. I haven't signed an NDA yet, but I expect one and wouldn't send a sold script in any case.

[Popninja]

Huh. . .

How is this his sell-out work? Because it's high profile and he's making lots of money on it?

Was the Sin City movie a sell-out too? Was DK2?

That did sound kind of bad, didn't it? Let me clarify. What I meant was that there is work that he has clearly put his love into, like Sin City and 300; and then there's the work that he's clearly doing for the paycheck, like DK2 and All Star Batman & Robin, The Boy Wonder. Miller has spoken openly about his disdain for the likes of Wizard magazine, for example, that to see him getting coverage just equals sell-out to me. And it's fine, like I said, he's using them as much as they're using him.

The sad part is that Miller can't write a simple, fun project without being criticized harshly for it. It has to be a masterwork, or we can't like it. Our expectations, at this point, are just way too high.

I also want to say that I'm willing to give this book more than ONE SINGLE ISSUE. You and I have no idea what's in store. And no, that wasn't directed at you, DeForgeo, but to all the people just completely sour on this comic based on the first issue.

[Carter]

Frank Miller could have typed this with his ass (just like he did DK2) and I would have bought this for the Lee art. Period.

[Popninja]

Frank Miller could have typed this with his ass (just like he did DK2) and I would have bought this for the Lee art. Period.

Yep. Just having Miller as writer, for me, is a bonus. I would have bought it even if Scott Lobdell had written it.

[tekende]

I'll give this, let's say, two more issues.

It took me about five minutes to read, which was in itself annoying. And that was about how much time passed within the story too. Okay, that was an exaggeration. But seriously, only one thing happened in this story: the Graysons were killed. That was it. The rest of the book was annoying filler, and the title characters barely got any page time at all. Especially Batman. I mean, we saw him in costume, what, once? And even as Bruce he only got about a dozen panels. The rest of the book was given over to an irritating piece of eye candy.

Back before the official DC message boards underwent their redesign, I was a frequent poster and a very vocal critic of Jim Lee's art. I just don't like it. Now I'm not saying and never did say that it's BAD. But it's not to my tastes at all, and while I can see why lots of other people like it, it seems like those exact reasons people do like it are why I don't. Lee's art always strikes me as flashy and self-important. It distracts from the story. But what really gets me is that he has templates of a sort. All women (unless they're old or fat or something) are shaped like this, all men are shaped like that, all boys are shaped like this. Seriously--all his characters fit into the same mold, just with different hair or a slightly different build or whatnot. Look at Lee's drawings of Superman and Bruce Wayne (not in this specific book, natch). Their faces are structured exactly the same. Here, Dick looks just like every other boy Lee has drawn. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Lee has no versatility, and so I don't like his art much and the fact that he's so overrated only makes me like it less (which isn't his fault).

Miller's script here was pathetic. Too short. The central character was really, really annoying and cliched. There was barely any Batman. The whole "the cops are going to beat up Dick" came out of absolutely nowhere and had me VERY confused for several pages. Really, the story just built and built and ultimately went nowhere. And it didn't even leave a proper teaser for the next issue. It just left me feeling ripped-off.

Miller and Lee do not mix well.

So, I'll give this two more issues. If it doesn't get better, I'm dropping it like a used needle in a trash can.

[Popninja]

I was a frequent poster and a very vocal critic of Jim Lee's art. I just don't like it. Now I'm not saying and never did say that it's BAD. But it's not to my tastes at all, and while I can see why lots of other people like it, it seems like those exact reasons people do like it are why I don't. Lee's art always strikes me as flashy and self-important. It distracts from the story. But what really gets me is that he has templates of a sort. All women (unless they're old or fat or something) are shaped like this, all men are shaped like that, all boys are shaped like this. Seriously--all his characters fit into the same mold, just with different hair or a slightly different build or whatnot. Look at Lee's drawings of Superman and Bruce Wayne (not in this specific book, natch). Their faces are structured exactly the same. Here, Dick looks just like every other boy Lee has drawn. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Lee has no versatility, and so I don't like his art much and the fact that he's so overrated only makes me like it less (which isn't his fault).

You clearly don't appreciate what goes into drawing a comic page. Jim Lee is considered one of the best comic artists because he's damn good...period.

The reason I say you don't appreciate what goes into a comic page is because you probably looked at page one of ASBARTBW and read the three word boxes...and then turned the page. I, as an artist, looked at that first page and stayed there for a good ten minutes absolutely marvelling at the amounts of detail; the spectators in the stands, the spotlights below. I appreciate what went into that one page alone. Page 11 would have been the perfect opportunity for a slack artist to just have a basic splash, but not Jim Lee. Just look at the people in the background. I won't go into all the great Jim Lee art that was in the rest of the issue because you don't see what I see.

Opinion or not, anyone that says Jim Lee art is BAD, or even just "meh," is someone who doesn't have a clue. There, I said it. Deal with it.

[tekende]

You clearly don't appreciate what goes into drawing a comic page. Jim Lee is considered one of the best comic artists because he's damn good...period.

*snip*

Opinion or not, anyone that says Jim Lee art is BAD, or even just "meh," is someone who doesn't have a clue. There, I said it. Deal with it.

I just clearly stated that I was NOT (read NOT) saying Lee's art was bad. I said it was NOT TO MY TASTES. There is a difference.

And I do appreciate what goes into drawing a comic page--I've done it myself. However, Lee's art does not make me want to study the page in detail as you do.

I don't like his art. That's perfectly fine, okay?

[Popninja]

I just clearly stated that I was NOT (read NOT) saying Lee's art was bad. I said it was NOT TO MY TASTES. There is a difference.

And I do appreciate what goes into drawing a comic page--I've done it myself. However, Lee's art does not make me want to study the page in detail as you do.

I don't like his art. That's perfectly fine, okay?

Oh, it's perfectly fine. Who's art do you like, BTW?

[tekende]

Oh, it's perfectly fine. Who's art do you like, BTW?

To name a few...
Scott McDaniel (Nightwing, Robin)
Humberto Ramos (Spectacular Spider-Man)
Jhonen Vasquez (Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, I Feel Sick)
Troy Little (Chiaroscuro)
FSC (Nightmares and Fairy Tales)
Scott Kolins (The Flash)
and Alex Maleev (Daredevil).

Just off the top of my head.

[Carter]

FSC is a great illustrator, but I'm not so sure how good a storyteller she is. I joygasmed all over every book she's been on, but I couldn't begin to tell you what I read.

[darth_coolius]

Man, i finally read the first ish and I gotta say it's crap. since when was batman ultimate cap'n?

[Popninja]

Man, i finally read the first ish and I gotta say it's crap. since when was batman ultimate cap'n?

To be fair, Batman was created before Captain America. And to be even fairer, "Ultimate Batman," as he appeared in DKR, came before Ultimate Cap'n.

[tekende]

FSC is a great illustrator, but I'm not so sure how good a storyteller she is. I joygasmed all over every book she's been on, but I couldn't begin to tell you what I read.

Got to agree with you there. I enjoy her art on her own stories and some of the little book things she's done more than her work on Nightmares and Fairy Tales for that reason.

[Huerta]

Man, i finally read the first ish and I gotta say it's crap. since when was batman ultimate cap'n?

He hasnt done anything yet.

[darth_coolius]

He hasnt done anything yet.

"You've just been drafted in war." Right after the kid's parents were killed. What a nice guy....

[Huerta]

That doesnt make him like Ultimate Cap. It just makes him sound retarded.

[Huerta]

Picked up #2 and... I'm dropping this.

[Tight-Pants Jack]

Picked up #2 and... I'm dropping this.

Good call.

I browsed through it at the comic shop to see if it got any better, and realized I couldn't even bring myself to read more than 5 seperate panels.

I did, however, notice a few terrible things worth mentioning;

-Half-naked, buff Alfred
-Batman murdering a bunch of scumbags with his car
-Batman's maniacal laughing as he murders a bunch of scumbags with his car
-Batman smacking Dick Grayson for being such a crybaby about him murdering a bunch of scumbags with his car
-Batman's 5 o'clock shadow (which he didn't have as Bruce Wayne in the last issue . . . must be part of his costume)
-A transforming, FLYING BATMOBILE

Skimming through this issue inspired me to take my copy of #1 and throw it in the garbage. Seriously, I'm doing that right now.

Frank Miller, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!

[Huerta]

It might as well be Batman in Sin City or whatevers... :confused:

[Ugga Bugga]

I quite enjoyed 2

The manipulation, the mind games.

Batman as crazed maniac. It sure explains alot. Taking this kid and making him into a crime fighting machine, at any cost is a rediculous notion - one that would only be done by a madman.

That comes across very well.

Robin as the seemingly unflappable kid was great.

The art was excellent. It was a well told story, that kept me glued to the page.

[Tight-Pants Jack]

Batman as crazed maniac. It sure explains alot. Taking this kid and making him into a crime fighting machine, at any cost is a rediculous notion - one that would only be done by a madman.

You're mistaken.

One of the reasons I like Batman the most is that he isn't some crazed maniac. He's smart, inventive, cool-headed, determined, and always right. Sure, maybe that's just what I walk away with when I enjoy the character, but it's a hell of a lot better than this version of him.

[Ugga Bugga]

You're mistaken.

One of the reasons I like Batman the most is that he isn't some crazed maniac. He's smart, inventive, cool-headed, determined, and always right. Sure, maybe that's just what I walk away with when I enjoy the character, but it's a hell of a lot better than this version of him.

I understand where you are coming from. However, I've always viewed Batman as a character that would have to have his sanity hanging by a thread. His parents are killed, he makes the decision to become this symbol of terror, and fights insane maniacs, in a corrupt city - with Alfred as his only support.

To me, for Batman to make any sense, he has to be sane, but just barely. His sanity dangles by a thread, bound to be cut at any time.

He's one wrong turn away away from being worse than the joker. However, the difference with Batman, is that he keeps his demons under control, and in the end does the right thing, though many questionable other things.

His conscience always wins out in the end, but it does not mean that he doesn't make some judgement mistakes.

I love the characterization.

Again, I understand how others would view this differently.

[amadarwin]

I nursed from his batnipples when i was but a wee lad.

[Popninja]

Good call.

I browsed through it at the comic shop to see if it got any better, and realized I couldn't even bring myself to read more than 5 seperate panels.

I did, however, notice a few terrible things worth mentioning;

-Half-naked, buff Alfred
-Batman murdering a bunch of scumbags with his car
-Batman's maniacal laughing as he murders a bunch of scumbags with his car
-Batman smacking Dick Grayson for being such a crybaby about him murdering a bunch of scumbags with his car
-Batman's 5 o'clock shadow (which he didn't have as Bruce Wayne in the last issue . . . must be part of his costume)
-A transforming, FLYING BATMOBILE

Skimming through this issue inspired me to take my copy of #1 and throw it in the garbage. Seriously, I'm doing that right now.

Frank Miller, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!

You want to know, honest to God, what Frank Miller was thinking?

"Damn, that's a big paycheck."

He's tricked you if you weren't prepared for what you are getting. I personally love it, primarily for the Jim Lee art, which is really good, no matter what any critic here tries to say otherwise.

I laughed my ass off reading #2. I thought it was great. It's like a BIG SUMMER BLOCKBUSTER, but it's moving at an absolute snails pace(I think #1 and 2 combined take place in the course of maybe two hours).

Remember folks that Miller HATES the system. Marvel and DC are the system. If Miller is doing work for DC, he's doing it for the money. And yeah, he might be purposely ****ing around with the characters you love in the process.

BTW, Cowblaster, there isn't anything "buff" about Alfred in that issue. I think you were just seeing what you wanted to see. I'll give you the Bat-stubble, though. I saw it too and, again, I laughed my ass off.

Good stuff.

[Huerta]

It was also just too slow for me. I think dialogue and pacing like that only works in the movies... this ish was boring.

[Art of Drowning]

=\ I liked it.

[Carter]

I'm liking this just because so many people are cry babying over it.

[Knigge]

One more issue. That's all I'm giving it. This was the one book I tried to read through briskly this week. I just wanted it to be over with. I just wanted it to be over with. To be over with. I just wanted. Just to be. Over with. I...

[darth_coolius]

they should just do ultimate dc. i wonder what hitch's superman redesign would be. if i ever meet him, that's the one thing i'd ask.

[lheneks]

I'm getting the distinct impression after reading 1 and 2 in one 5 minute sitting that we will get another issue or two that cover the next hour or so of the night, then an issue long montage scene of Robin's training, and then finally the story will start.

Oh well, crappy story or not I'll probably stick with it for the pretty pictures.

[Trilogy]

I'm not feeling the story at all so far. But I can't lie, as long as this book has two of the best creators in the history of comics doing the writing and penciling duties then I'm not going to stop buying it. This current storyline is a bit average - if not flat out sub-par - for any professional writer. Certainly for Miller. But hell, it is Frank Miller. And Jim Lee is drawing it. Plus it is Batman (to hell with Robin and the supporting cast). I just have to get it, even though I sense there's a train wreck of a plot unfolding.

[amadarwin]

my main issues are with the dialogue. Almost every word balloon contains 3 or 4 different ways to say the same thing. It gets a bit tedius and definately takes me out of the story.

[Stark Raving]

I love Frank Miller on Batman.
I love that he can make him such a complete asshole.
And I like that Bats called Robin a retard. :D

That alone will keep me reading...

[NickRocks]

yeah, miller does a great asshole bats.


i gotta pick up issue 2

[NickRocks]

I did, however, notice a few terrible things worth mentioning;

-Half-naked, buff Alfred
-Batman murdering a bunch of scumbags with his car
-Batman's maniacal laughing as he murders a bunch of scumbags with his car
-Batman smacking Dick Grayson for being such a crybaby about him murdering a bunch of scumbags with his car
-Batman's 5 o'clock shadow (which he didn't have as Bruce Wayne in the last issue . . . must be part of his costume)
-A transforming, FLYING BATMOBILE



this sounds like pretty much the greatest comic ever made....its only missing zombies and ninjas.


seriously though, this is the kinda batman i would write, who kills scumbags and laughs and smacks hoes and beats up kids.

i love frank miller.

EDIT!!!!!

i picked this book up and i have not actually laughed out loud as much as i did this issue. omg this is amazing stuff. i think it works ALOT better if you just read it as a joke and not as something to be serious, and just enjoy Lee's art, which is spectacular on this series. One thing i notice is that batman comics never usually talk about him changing his voice, which is the little detail i liked.

The Batmobile doing the 180 made me LOL in the middle of barnes and nobles.

[NickRocks]

OK! I got issue 3 today, and let me just say....i will continue to read this and pick it up, and i think that if you read the first issue and liked it, then read 3 and forget 2 ever happened, because 3 is much better, and if you got straight from 1 to 3 you dont miss much.

the comic begins with black canary being a bartender in the first half, and getting hit on and she flips out when a guy touches her butt and kicks the crap out of everyone and takes their money. then the second half is batman telling dick its called the batmobile, and clark kent reading the paper and getting mad.

the art is great as always....no surprise here.

it seems to me that lately, there have been way too many superman/batman crossovers. i mean, in all star superman, i dont think batman will show up, so why does superman have to show up in batmans book? i think its lame, and i wish miller would get rid of his love for having batman and superman fight. however, i will read it, just to watch lee draw it. the dialogue is much better in this issue, i hope it gets better from here on out.

[Carter]

This comic is WAY too decompressed. It took like a hundred pages to get to the point with Black Canary, and Batman's been driving around with little Dick since earlier this summer. I may have to wait for the trade on the rest of this if the story doesn't pick up the pace.

Also, Miller really must love Superman getting his ass beat by Batman. I wonder how many times he can trick that same pony out.

[NickRocks]

This comic is WAY too decompressed. It took like a hundred pages to get to the point with Black Canary, and Batman's been driving around with little Dick since earlier this summer. I may have to wait for the trade on the rest of this if the story doesn't pick up the pace.

Also, Miller really must love Superman getting his ass beat by Batman. I wonder how many times he can trick that same pony out.

my same exact thoughts, you just put it in a different way lol.

i would wait for the trade, but im too impatient.

[Popninja]

OK! I got issue 3 today, and let me just say....i will continue to read this and pick it up, and i think that if you read the first issue and liked it, then read 3 and forget 2 ever happened, because 3 is much better, and if you got straight from 1 to 3 you dont miss much.

That's so true. 2 was essentially Bruce and Dick driving and then flying around in the Batmobile.

I'm not so sure about the pace of this thing. Now Bruce and Dick are submerged in the Batmobile. I just saw a preview page for #4, page 4 with Bruce and Dick STILL underwater in the Batmobile.

They just need to get the **** out of that Batmobile.

I love Jim displaying Supes strength with that close up of Superman's hand crushing a milk carton. Batman's in trouble, for sure. Also, the milk carton: a missing ad for Dick? How long have they been in that Batmobile?

I'm sticking with it only because it's Miller and Lee. However, if they continue to be as late as they were with #3, I may drop it on principle.

[NickRocks]

Also, the milk carton: a missing ad for Dick? How long have they been in that Batmobile?


my thoughts too....


interesting tidbit, i picked up a special edition version of ASB&R #1, which is the whole comic but in jims pencils, and at the back there is a copy of frank millers script for issue 1 in it. it's very interesting, i think some key moments frank pointed out werent stressed enough by jim pencils. i hope they do another special edition for issue two, id love to see franks scripts for those.

[bbbearcounty]

"Okay, I admit it: I phrased the title the way I did to get you to read this, but it’s the truth: I’m going to summon up my reserves and do what no one else seems to be doing much of, and that is give ALL-STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN the benefit of the doubt, and something of a break.

I have, in my review of HUSH, actually been none-too-subtlely critical of ASBR, and have spoken of it with considerable frustration with a number of my friends. The more I think about it, however, and the more I look at Jim Lee’s incredible art (although even it wasn’t enough to salvage the odd run on SUPERMAN a while back) I really want to give this book a chance.

Let’s go ahead and put the stuff on the table that makes most Batfans dislike the book:

1. Batman is a jerk. And that is putting it mildly. Dick Grayson’s “kidnapping” by the Batman makes him look like as psychotic as most of the villains in the Batman’s rogues gallery.

2. Batman seems to be a killer. I’m having flashbacks to Jean Paul Valley, the cold-blooded killer Azrael-Batman of Knightfall and Knightsend. I know that the cops are crooked and evil, but is this The Batman or The Punisher? Ooh, wait. Miller writing THE PUNISHER sounds like an idea…

3. Batman cackles like the Joker. Please.

4. Bruce Wayne telling Vicki he’s had his eye on Dick Grayson for a while. What the heck? That’s not even good writing! How many times has Bruce gone to the circus to watch a little boy in tights? Doesn’t he realize that he just sounds like a pedophile when he says that? *Groan.*

5. The Batmobile. It kind of reminds me of “Knight Rider” in the fourth season when they were running out of ideas and gave KITT that stupid “Super Pursuit Mode”. Yak!

6. Black Canary is a barkeep in a run-down bar of the same name. Is this Batman or Sin City? I suppose I should be glad that she wasn’t a pole dancer…

Okay, now for the stuff that seems to be okay, if not outright good.

1. The first issue. I don’t know about you, but I had extremely high hopes for issue #2 after issue #1. The way the Batman took out the Grayson’s killer screamed original THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS to me. I was a little iffy about the Batmobile splatting the cops, but the imagery of the Car smashing through the police cruiser was absolutely incredible. The last panel, with Batman holding Dick Grayson up in the air, was likewise awesome.

2. Vicki Vale. I have never liked the character of Vicki Vale, comics or film, until now. She seems like more of a real character with something to do other than be a love interest for Batman. She has personality, spunk, and Jim Lee makes her look…well, you could see why Bruce would be interested.

3. Alfred. Great in issue 1, and the suave, debonair ladies man when Vicki swoons in his arms in issue 2. Go, Alfred! Go, Alfred!

4. The Batmobile. Yeah, it’s a little cheesy, the car that does everything. But it is a tank, and it does everything. Would this make a cool toy, or what? (I wonder what a DC Direct Batmobile to fit the figures would cost? I don’t know, but I’d pay it.)

5. Jim Lee. Thank the good Lord for Jim Lee’s incredible artwork.

So let’s look at what Mr. Miller is doing here. Enough has already been said about the brilliant THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and the even better YEAR ONE. Likewise, enough has been said about THE DARK KNIGHT 2, or whatever it was called. I don’t really remember, as I am trying desperately to block those few hours out of my life forever that I spent looking at it. It never happened, it never happened…

Even after all of my complaints, and the fear that Miller has completely lost touch of what Batman is all about (anyone read his YEAR ONE movie idea? Uuurrrrpp!), I’m going to give Miller the benefit of the doubt. Even Batman’s rough, violent ways may be right in line with what we all could begrudgingly give a nod to at the end of the run.

This came to me while watching BATMAN ’89 with my family recently. A great film, although now forever eclipsed by the incredible BATMAN BEGINS. As we watched it, my four and six-year old daughters noticed that Batman had a really violent streak: “Did he blow up that building with the bad guys in it?” “Did he throw that man down the hole where the bell is? Won’t that make him die?” “Why didn’t Batman try to catch the Joker when he was falling? He does in the cartoon!” After feeling guilty and promising them that the real Batman was the one in the new movie (which made them very happy, as they LOVE BEGINS), I thought back to the original Bob Kane Batman of 1939 and 1940, pre-Robin. The Bat-Man carried a gun, and was not afraid to use it. He whacked a number of bad guys, with no remorse (“A fitting end.”). It wasn’t until Robin, the Boy Wonder came along that The Bat began to ease up on the killing. Ever since, the Batman has been a champion of human life, even that of the bad guys.

Do I like the way it happened in BEGINS, and the modern comics, better, with Bruce deciding before he ever puts the cape and cowl on that killing is off limits? Absolutely. But if the “All-Star” books are a return to the original, core concepts of the characters, then is it not altogether possible that Miller did not start with our modern-age Batman -- the one that he basically created in YEAR ONE -- but that he went all the way back to 1939, to “The Bat-Man” of Bob Kane’s original plan, and is going to take us the way of 1940? Perhaps he is trying to demonstrate, as he did to a certain degree in TDKR, that The Batman needs a Robin to pull him back from the edge?

I hope this is the direction the story will go. I could be wrong, but if I’m right, then we could all be singing Frank Miller’s bat-praise when ASBR finishes its run, as we did 20 years ago when he breathed new life into the characters we love." ~Marcus A. Buckley, BATMAN-ON-FILM.com

I just thought this would be an interesting article to take a look at.

[Popninja]

OT-Wow, he let his 4 and 6 year old girls watch Batman Begins? I won't even let my 8 year old watch it, and he's been begging me for the last three months.

[Shibuya]

Jim lee is one crazy sob

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=60688

with this 6 page spread im definitly lookin forward to next issue.

[Popninja]

Am I crazy or has there not been a new issue of All Star Bats in 2006? It's May, y'all.

[DrVictorVonDoom]

There've been two great issues of All-Star Superman!

[Popninja]

There've been two great issues of All-Star Superman!

Amen to that, and a third(#4) right around the corner!

[Huerta]

Am I crazy or has there not been a new issue of All Star Bats in 2006? It's May, y'all.


SAd aint it?

Too me the All-Star hype is gone.

[Singles]

There've been two great issues of All-Star Superman!

THREE NOW!

[NickRocks]

maybe im crazy or something, but im still waiting to be awed again by all star superman. 1 was a good setup, 2 was great suspense, but three was laid back, and all through the issue i kept thinking "wait! supermans about to die soon! isnt he going to do anything?" i want to see some smackdowns!

[NickRocks]

i feel like im the only one even reading this book anymore. did anyone get it? what did you think?

i thought the art was great, but thats kind of a given.
the story seems to be picking up pace somewhat, but even though its taking so long, it still feels rushed in some parts, like where batman leaves robin one page, beats down a cop the next page, then is back in the batcave the very next page after that!


its creepy to see batman smile so much, too.

[sdowner]

I just read the latest issue- is it 7?
Wow. This book is AWESOME!
I mean that in all seriousness. I know that people line up to gripe about this, but man- it's totally awesome. DC's done parodies before, but this is a whole new realm of the genre. Between the lush art of Lee, Williams and Sinclair™, and Frank "The Tank" Miller's torrid, profanity-laden writing, this is by far the classiest parody of Batman anybody's done. And chain-smoking, Irish barkeep Black Canary, who gets inexplicably turned on by watching The Goddamn Batman brutalize and burn alive a gang of thugs- well, she's just the icing on the cake.
In conclusion, I want to say this:
Thank you, Frank Miller and Jim Lee. Thank you for All-Star The Goddamn Batman and Robin, the Trauma Victim
I've never laughed so hard in public before. I eagerly await the next issue!

*edit*
No, I honestly believe that Frank Miller knows exactly what he's doing with this series. Maybe he's just being an ass, but I think he's just having as much insane fun as he can with the concept before DC gets too wierded out by it.

[Popninja]

I just read the latest issue- is it 7?
Wow. This book is AWESOME!
I mean that in all seriousness. I know that people line up to gripe about this, but man- it's totally awesome. DC's done parodies before, but this is a whole new realm of the genre. Between the lush art of Lee, Williams and Sinclair™, and Frank "The Tank" Miller's torrid, profanity-laden writing, this is by far the classiest parody of Batman anybody's done. And chain-smoking, Irish barkeep Black Canary, who gets inexplicably turned on by watching The Goddamn Batman brutalize and burn alive a gang of thugs- well, she's just the icing on the cake.
In conclusion, I want to say this:
Thank you, Frank Miller and Jim Lee. Thank you for All-Star The Goddamn Batman and Robin, the Trauma Victim
I've never laughed so hard in public before. I eagerly await the next issue!

*edit*
No, I honestly believe that Frank Miller knows exactly what he's doing with this series. Maybe he's just being an ass, but I think he's just having as much insane fun as he can with the concept before DC gets too wierded out by it.

They can't go wrong, no matter what anyone says. It's Frank Miller and Jim Lee, fer chrissakes, they just can't go wrong. If not for the sporadic shipping, this book would be perfection. For me, this is what DKSA should have been. I thumbed through #7 a couple of weeks back and really liked what I saw. I'm going to wait for some sort of deluxe collection before I buy it, though. I can't wait for singles on it anymore, and I pretty much stopped buying comics anyway.

But yeah, it appears Miller is having a ton of fun.

[lost-spartan]

I've loved this book since the first goddamned, and it has just gotten crazier and better with each subsequent issue. I can't wait for the ridiculousness that is going to be the absolute edition of this series. Are they aiming for a 12 issue arc for this book, does anyone know?

[ntholdenuk]

Its definitley not your normal batman book. Miller gives batman a nice crazy edge. I like it. No Idea where its going even though issue 8 is just around the corner.
I'm with this title as long as jim lee is on it. . . . hell if he aint gonna draw wildcats I got to get my fix somewhere and he just dont post enough his gelatometti blog thing.

[slash]

I really like this. Miller is doing some of the finest work in comics right now with this. I love how mad people get over this book because it's not serious literature.

[Popninja]

I really like this. Miller is doing some of the finest work in comics right now with this. I love how mad people get over this book because it's not serious literature.

I doubt anyone would have had any problem with this comic had it not basically been a "quarterly/bi-annually/annually" book masquerading as a monthly.

I imagine a perfect world where DC would have demanded Miller and Lee have a few issues in the can before solicitation began. Then, a comic that premiered in July 2005(!!!) wouldn't only be on its ninth issue thus far.

Issue 9 came out in late February, right? They're already close to four months late with #10. It's been a disappointing run only because of the erratic, sporadic shipping "schedule." I really think both Frank Miller and Jim Lee should be ashamed of themselves. And DC should really start considering cancellation of this title or giving it to someone competent and good to finish it up.

Even the folks like myself who resolved to wait for the trade will most likely be waiting until 2012 before there is anything cohesive enough to collect.

[lost-spartan]

The first hardcover collects 1-9, so you won't have to wait that long. Amazon has the solicit for the 2nd week of July. The rest of the series, now that's gonna be a wait :D

[F!]

You know, when a Frank Quitely-drawn book is the most frequent title in your line, it's probably time to rethink your publishing plan.

I have to say, despite my initial reaction to this book, I went back and read from the start, and I think the less seriously you take it overall, the less weight you give to the flaws. As long as you're aware of and accept its (perhaps intentional) trashiness, it becomes a different reading experience. An enjoyable one, even. It's like an Italian Spiderman take on Batman.

[Popninja]

The first hardcover collects 1-9, so you won't have to wait that long. Amazon has the solicit for the 2nd week of July. The rest of the series, now that's gonna be a wait :D

Oh yeah? Cool, I didn't know that.

[50%grey]

I just read this and I liked it alot. I know people like to dog on Jim Lees drawing ability,but the guy does an amazing job on the storytelling.His stuff is so clear,and easy to read.

This book,Hush and his superman stuff were like watching one of those big blockbuster popcorn movies of the summer. I really enjoy his take on the DC universe. I would love to see him tackle some other stuff down the line like JLA or Legion.

[Co.Inkadink]

You know, when a Frank Quitely-drawn book is the most frequent title in your line, it's probably time to rethink your publishing plan.That's Funny:D

[lost-spartan]

I would love to see him tackle some other stuff down the line like JLA or Legion.

As long as he finishs ASBAR while we're still young, that'd be cool. I'd even like to see him do a run or mini on the Spirit(maybe even with Miller).

[Popninja]

I just read this and I liked it alot. I know people like to dog on Jim Lees drawing ability,but the guy does an amazing job on the storytelling.His stuff is so clear,and easy to read.

This book,Hush and his superman stuff were like watching one of those big blockbuster popcorn movies of the summer. I really enjoy his take on the DC universe. I would love to see him tackle some other stuff down the line like JLA or Legion.

Which I've never understood. Clearly, the guy does some of the best superhero art, bar none.

So you got the trade? Any extra stuff in there?

[50%grey]

I don't have the trade,just the singles.

[Crimson Spider]

Which I've never understood. Clearly, the guy does some of the best superhero art, bar none.

The problem is, Lee's style saturated the market in the '90s, mostly by clones who did not do him justice. His style became very generic and stale, which is why I failed to appreciate his work for so long. It wasn't until very recently, the last few years in fact, that I took a shine to his art.

I still don't find his WildC.A.T.S. work very impressive, though. I prefer his X-days, to be honest, or his more recent work. I have an issue of Divine Right that's pretty great, too.

Incidentally, has there been an update on the second issue of the Morrison/Lee Wildcats?

[lost-spartan]

Incidentally, has there been an update on the second issue of the Morrison/Lee Wildcats?

I think that's dead in the water. :(

[Popninja]

I still don't find his WildC.A.T.S. work very impressive, though. I prefer his X-days, to be honest, or his more recent work. I have an issue of Divine Right that's pretty great, too.

Incidentally, has there been an update on the second issue of the Morrison/Lee Wildcats?

I find most of his Image work to be mostly uninspired garbage, to be honest. Looking back at WildC.A.T.s Vol.1 #1, it's hard to believe that was the same guy who was doing X-Men just a few months earlier. It wasn't until he did Wildcats/X-Men that it hit me, that he's still a "company man". His work on characters that aren't his own is so much better than anything he's done that is creator owned. Except for his FF stuff; Lee's version of the Thing was the worst version I've ever seen.

What's it been, two full years since the first issue of Morrison/Lee Wildcats came out? I'd say it's not ever coming back.

[Crimson Spider]

I really liked his FF, even at the time of its release. I remember looking at those backup articles during Onslaught with Lee and Liefeld's sketches and promo pics, and my jaw dropping when I saw his depiction of Namor on his throne. Holy crap, someone post that in the "Shining Moments" thread!

And I don't remember his Thing being all that bad.

[50%grey]

So when is Jim going to give us another issue? think the last one was the green lantern,and that rocked.

[lost-spartan]

The solicits said #10 comes out Aug. 27th, IIRC.

[50%grey]

They better put this out on time >D ,I need my Goddamn Batman fix.

[NickRocks]

this is the greatest goddamn comic of all time. does anyone else feel like this is shaping up to be the prequel to DKR?

[Popninja]

this is the greatest goddamn comic of all time. does anyone else feel like this is shaping up to be the prequel to DKR?

I had thought that from the first issue.

[NickRocks]

well from the beginning i thought it was more a sequel to year one, but with batman saying the we have to be criminals line in issue 9, it seems more like the in between.

[dwrite]

Hi, All:

I remember all the bad press this series got, so I was surprised when I finally read the first trade and thoroughly enjoyed this vision of Batman. I think the problem with the comics is that not much seems to happen in each individual issue, but when you gather them in one book, you can see exactly what Miller is trying to do.

This is sort of what it's like for most comics these days, though. I read a single issue and I often end up unimpressed. Collect all the issues for a story arc in one trade, though, and it has such a better flow.

In some ways, this is a real problem with comics today. Why should I ever buy a stand-alone comic issue when the completed trade will provide a far better read? (I sort of miss the days when we saw highly entertaining one-off, stand-alone stories more frequently. I like the long involving story arcs, but sometimes a one-and-done story is a nice change of pace. Bendis recently did this with two Ultimate Spider-Man stories -- which are now, actually tying into his current longer Symbiote storyline -- and the stories were quite enjoyable.)

Dan
http://indycomics.today.com

[Popninja]

I think the problem with the comics is that not much seems to happen in each individual issue, but when you gather them in one book, you can see exactly what Miller is trying to do.

I believe the pacing is adequate, but with the shipping schedule, it doesn't seem so. You just think in your mind that, after having waited 6 to 8 months for an issue, more should be happening.

[50%grey]

I guess with guys like Jim they should just release the whole story arc at once in graphic novel format if he can't do a monthly anymore.

[spidey976]

Hmmm I have found his entire series to be a bit hit and miss both with the schedule and ... well ... slightly with the art. Honestly ... I think it was issue 5 where Lee had three consecutive pages where one was a double page spread and the next was a single page with Batman leaping down ... no background ... it was kind of a pinup to me. Also ... the JLA work didn't thrill me.

Honestly ... I am a huge fan of Jim Lee's work ... and I just wish these issues would come out more often. However, I guess if I was in charge of redesigning the entire DC Universe for an online game ... I might be a little busy.

[Popninja]

Honestly ... I am a huge fan of Jim Lee's work ... and I just wish these issues would come out more often. However, I guess if I was in charge of redesigning the entire DC Universe for an online game ... I might be a little busy.

Maybe Lee should get his priorities in order. 9 issues in over three years is an atrocity.

He had no excuse for the lateness of this book.

[spidey976]

Maybe Lee should get his priorities in order. 9 issues in over three years is an atrocity.

He had no excuse for the lateness of this book.

LOL ... how about the fact that #10 is getting "recalled" because DC allowed the book to filled with swares ... covered them with black bars ... but the original ink is still legible. That or the whole thing is some lame publiscity stunt by DC to get people talking about the book again

[lost-spartan]

One of these days, Lee's gonna have to decide if he's a penciller, or the guy running WS, and just commit to it. His books never come out on time, WS has been all over the place for years, and yet he decides to design shit for a DCU videogame. I'd love it if he just did one thing, draw comics. His greatest talent is art, and he doesn't strike me as quite as good at business as McFarlane has been, and with him already selling WS years ago, it should be easier for him by now, but it isn't. He's one of the best artists of his entire generation, and that's saying something given that talent pool, yet his output is truly pathetic in comparison to his skill level. When are we gonna get a 10 issue a year Jim Lee back??? :(

[50%grey]

Latest issue I didn't like so much. Frank went ape shit crazy with the inner monologues and pretty much covered every panel with some kind of word balloon. Most of it wasn't even neccesary...

[NickRocks]

its out already?!?!?

[50%grey]

its out already?!?!?


Well thats an interesting question ;) . Its not technically out in the shops yet because of the printing mess up by DC,BUT it is out on torrent sites.
Since I've already paid for my copy that I should have gotten by now, I feel in this instance it is OK for me to read it online,haha.

[lost-spartan]

Yeah the Batgirl(and all the other punks) swearing every other word was almost as annoying as reading Canary's accent. But I'm glad to see the world getting a little bigger with Gordon getting more attention, and Selina's beating setting up even more tension between Bats and Joker. And I guess Lee has never been to a hospital before, 'cuase doctor's don't work in mini skirts and high heals. Hopefully the Batgirl thing turns into a nice source of tension for Miller to play with between Bats and Gordon.

Though I have to say that Miller really is showing Batman not just taking in the orphan whose parents died and giving him a job so to speak, but having a real reverence for Robin's natural abilities and how much better Batman truly beleives he's going to be than even himself. That's something I never really got from other Bat books, he was always the sidekick who was going to have to take over for Bruce one day, but Miller makes me think that Bruce really sees this kid as the one whose going to save not only Gotham but Bruce from himself one day by not needing him anymore as Batman. It's one of things that I've really dug about ASBAR since it he initial shock and awe of the first few issues, and makes me appreciate the series more becuase of those little comments here and there. Like how strong he is for his age, him already having a black belt, he's doing triple kicks when Bats wants to show him a single kick, or even in #10 when makes note of the fact it took him a year longer to before he was on top of a train. Just things like that that add a real respect for what the boy means to Bruce and his life's work.

[NickRocks]

yeah i agree, and knowing DKR and DK2 gives it a kind of "batman=obi-wan robin=anakin" sort of thing. It just makes it all very sad, seeing all the faith batman has in grayson and knowing hes going to be failed twice (jason todd) before he finds carrie kelly.


EDIT: just finished reading 10 and holy crap...lee's art on this issue is astounding. the double page splash on top of the train was amazing. this is by far my favorite lee work to date.

[NickRocks]

according to jim lees msn blog...

November 26

> All Star Batman and Robin #11 (Frank Miller)

[50%grey]

Hoping that the JLA talks to bats this issue.

[NickRocks]

Hoping that the JLA talks to bats this issue.

nah...Im hoping that Bats goes ape-shit and has a crazy ass fight with joker.

[lost-spartan]

Hoping that the JLA talks to bats this issue.


nah...Im hoping that Bats goes ape-shit and has a crazy ass fight with joker.

I'm hoping for both of those, and Superman catching Bats and Wonder Woman getting it on. LOL

[NickRocks]

I'm hoping for both of those, and Superman catching Bats and Wonder Woman getting it on. LOL

hahaha! Well, i hope for them to also show the scene wonder woman was talking about when she says that supes "threw her to the ground and took her as his rightful prize...passion that shattered a mountaintop" in DK2. super thrust!

[lost-spartan]

hahaha! Well, i hope for them to also show the scene wonder woman was talking about when she says that supes "threw her to the ground and took her as his rightful prize...passion that shattered a mountaintop" in DK2. super thrust!

Well if anyone could handle his kryptonian o face, it would be Miller's WW. LOL

[NickRocks]

so i bought the volume 1 hardcover of this....collecting issues 1 thru 9...and i read year one first, then this all the way though including 10...


when this series is done, people are going to smack themselves in the face for ever hating on it or making fun of it. There is so much going on in this series that its amazing. the ramifications of gordons infidelity in year one have led to barbara being a drunk...events that happened in year one are referenced, and things to happen in DKR are hinted at...this is my favorite comic of all time.

Jim Lee still seems to be a bit awkward at drawing batman with a smile, but hes trying and it shows, especially in issue 9.

looking forward to 11!

[lost-spartan]

Yeah, the book really does shine when you take the delays out of the equation, and read them all together in one sitting.

[Bruce]

Huh.
So this is a good book then?
When it's totally collected it's going to be a solid book?

?
Really?
I'm serious. I would like to know.

[Set Abominae]

1-9 is already out
http://www.actionfigurescomicbooksandvideogames.com/servlet/the-3526/Graphic-Novel,-TPB,-Trade/Detail

[Bruce]

I know. That's not the whole thing though. I meant collected. Like all 12 or as many as they are going to do.

Does everyone think it's a good book?

[lost-spartan]

I think it's a damn fine book if like Lee's art and Miller's style of writing/storytelling.

[Set Abominae]

It's a self parody of sorts so you can't take it too seriously. I think it's great though.

[Popninja]

Huh.
So this is a good book then?
When it's totally collected it's going to be a solid book?

?
Really?
I'm serious. I would like to know.

If for nothing else, it's worth it for the art. Hopefully, they'll do an Absolute All Star version of this because Jim Lee's art is absolutely incredible. And I think that's what has made this a must buy for a lot of people, no matter how many months between issues. He's just killing every inch of the page with some of the most beautiful superhero art ever.

As far as the story, after 10 issues, I couldn't tell you where this is going.

[NickRocks]

As far as the story, after 10 issues, I couldn't tell you where this is going.

I can! All silliness aside, heres the story so far...

Batman is there when robins parents get killed, so batman adopts the boy because he sees himself in the boy. in his haste he rushes to train robin how to fight because hes so impressed with his natural athletic ability. however robin almost kills green lantern and bats sees what a mistake he made rushing into things. so hes trying to backtrack a bit and let robin grieve for his parents.

as for where the story will go, I can only guess...and my guess is that we see jim gordon get back with sarah, *since they are together in DKR* robin becomes evil and batman "fires" him, and somehow the rise of the mutants will happen.

[Popninja]

as for where the story will go, I can only guess...

That's sorta the same as "I couldn't tell you where this is going."

[NickRocks]

haha true...I misunderstood you to be saying you didnt understand the story so far.

[sdowner]

Does everyone think it's a good book?

It's an AWESOME book, in the most over the top, sublimely ridiculous way. I laughed, snickered and shook my head all the way through the first collection.
The story's pretty tight but there is the one massively stupid flaw of having Dick Grayson's picture on milk cartons in Metropolis within hours of his disappearance. D'oh!!

The issue where Batman paints an entire apartment, himself and Robin yellow for a conversation with Green Lantern is brilliant. I'm still trying to find opportunities to use "Damn you and your lemonade!!" in daily conversation.

[NickRocks]

The issue where Batman paints an entire apartment, himself and Robin yellow for a conversation with Green Lantern is brilliant. I'm still trying to find opportunities to use "Damn you and your lemonade!!" in daily conversation.

haha thats my favorite line out of the entire series so far.

[AlexT17]

Lee's art is definetly better here than in his other Batman run. Frank's writing is good but that's coming from a fan. There are parts where he should just let the character's shut up and not say nothing, and his repetiveness just bores the hell out of the reader. Also the lateness of the book may add to its failure. If it were to ship on time, the audience would have a better understanding of where the book was going and what to expect next.

Its amazing. DC Comics doesn't even know whats gonna happen. It states nothing about the issue in the synopsis on the site and gives no insight or sneak preview into what is gonna happen next.

DC has also stepped up the line by producing this book. Their comics have always been not as surreal as Marvel has, and having Frank Miller and Jim Lee on payroll helps. Also including Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns.

[NickRocks]

Its amazing. DC Comics doesn't even know whats gonna happen. It states nothing about the issue in the synopsis on the site and gives no insight or sneak preview into what is gonna happen next.


hahaha i know thats one of my favorite parts, when they just show a splash page from the issue you read and say something like "BATMAN AND ROBIN THE DYNAMIC DUO! COMING SOON" or something.

[AlexT17]

hahaha i know thats one of my favorite parts, when they just show a splash page from the issue you read and say something like "BATMAN AND ROBIN THE DYNAMIC DUO! COMING SOON" or something.


They actually took a splash page from Issue 10 and used it as the preview cover for Issue 11.

[NickRocks]

thats what i meant.

[Popninja]

I just realized that only two issues of ASBARTBW came out in 2008. That's pretty sad.

[NickRocks]

isnt that like 06, when only issue 4 came out?

and wtf is up with 11? jim lees blog said november 26, dc website said december 31st...is it out yet? come on Jim!!!!!

[AlexT17]

There is actually no official word on issue 11 and 12 as of this time. The Diamond comic orders on those comics were canceled due to the fact that no one knew when they were gonna come out.

[spidey976]

Lee's art is definetly better here than in his other Batman run.

I would have to respectfully disagree with this one. I think that Lee's art has always been amazing ... BUT ... on All Star I am finding the story telling to be lacking a lot ... depending on the issue. Now I don't know if it is a function of Miller's writing ... or a rush to try to get the books out on time ... but I found that issues 5-9 all had a lot of story telling short cuts. Though they were well drawn ... better then I could EVER do ... off the top of my head I can think of three single page spreads with NO background to speak of (A face shot of Dick Grayson, a shot of Batman in the air nothing behind him, and a shot of Batman facing of against GL with a yellow background and some action lines). There were also several dark shots of Grayson in the cave with almost a completely blacked out background. Now ... they were all great uses of positive and negative space ... well executed ... but when I wait 6 months or more for a book to come out ... I don't really want to see pages where Scott Williams did most of his work with a brush filling in black space ... and then probably spent an hour on the figure ... maybe two or three.

What I guess I am saying ... in a long winded way ... is I would prefer the solid story telling presented in HUSH ... to the flashy double page spreads combined with rushed pages to meet deadlines of All Star. I really don't think this is Lee's best work ... it is awesome to be sure ... but I feel like he is cutting corners in some areas ... or at least more so then usual ... and again with the deadline issues and the long wait ... I feel like every page should be artistic GOLD. Not something he rushed out between doing covers for Trinity.

My oppinion ... take it as you will.

[Popninja]

I would have to respectfully disagree with this one. I think that Lee's art has always been amazing ... BUT ... on All Star I am finding the story telling to be lacking a lot ... depending on the issue.

What I guess I am saying ... in a long winded way ... is I would prefer the solid story telling presented in HUSH ... to the flashy double page spreads combined with rushed pages to meet deadlines of All Star. I really don't think this is Lee's best work ... it is awesome to be sure ... but I feel like he is cutting corners in some areas ... or at least more so then usual ... and again with the deadline issues and the long wait ... I feel like every page should be artistic GOLD. Not something he rushed out between doing covers for Trinity.

My oppinion ... take it as you will.

I agree with you 100%. With the time we've been waiting on these issues, they should be the most spectacularly drawn comics ever produced. But they aren't. Granted, they're really good. Even Lee's deadline-beating shortcuts are beautiful to look at. Tons of senseless splash pages that are just gorgeous. But, you're right, Hush was much better at showcasing Lee's storytelling abilities. It had more to do with Loeb writing to Lee's strengths. I think in the case of ASBARTBW, you have two really great pros working together, but I don't think that there is any real chemistry. I would even go out on a limb and say that Miller may be giving some art cues, even though I could be wrong. The page you mentioned, where it's just Grayson's face with all black around it, looked like a page Miller had drawn. That page is the perfect example of wasted pages on this book. For anyone that has seen it, it's the most glaring example of filling pages with no story. Both Miller and Lee should be ashamed of pages like that.

Lee really needs to devote his undivided attention to this book. Miller too. It had such potential. But knowing that two years out of close to four have only produced three issues is a complete joke. If it was Geof Darrow, I would understand...maybe. But not when it's what we're seeing from Jim Lee.

[NickRocks]

if you look at the script for issue one, frank originally called for the opening shot of dick with no background, jim just decided to draw one anyway. Im pretty sure that the other shots are franks call as well.

[AlexT17]

Frank is extremely busy now. He wants to start directing more movies and devote more time to that. All Star is going down the drain.

[Set Abominae]

That sucks, his books are so much better than his movies have been.

[F!]

Frank is extremely busy now. He wants to start directing more movies and devote more time to that.I've got a feeling he's going to have a lot more free time on his hands than he thinks.

[malachimanson]

I've got a feeling he's going to have a lot more free time on his hands than he thinks.

Agreed. Besides how can All Stars get any worst then it is already. By some strange event they replace him and get I don't know someone with talent to do it.

[AlexT17]

Agreed. Besides how can All Stars get any worst then it is already. By some strange event they replace him and get I don't know someone with talent to do it.


The problem is that this book takes place in Miller's Batman time period, coinciding with Dark Knight Returns, Batman Year 1, etc. I don't really think that anyoine else can just come in and screw with his universe.

[spidey976]

Honestly ... I think that Miller could pass off the baton on that one ... after all how could it get worse then the Dark Knight Strikes Back. That was the MOST dissappointed I have ever been in a story.

[NickRocks]

DK2 was brilliant, you're on drugs.

[spidey976]

DK2 was brilliant, you're on drugs.

LOL ... Nick ... I hope I am reading sarcasim there. IMO ... it was one of the worst follow ups to a legendary title.

Oh or did you just like the sex between Supes and WonderWoman???

[NickRocks]

No, I really do think that DK2 is brilliant. I dont really want to go into it right now, maybe ill starty another thread about it in this forum.

[spidey976]

No, I really do think that DK2 is brilliant. I dont really want to go into it right now, maybe ill starty another thread about it in this forum.

Hmmm ... I thought the story telling was aweful and that the backgrounds and figure work was inconsistent throughout the entire story. Don't get me wrong Nick ... I think Miller has the chops ... I can't remember another artist who has as good a grasp of positive and negative space ... but DK2 is personally a drop down for me.

[NickRocks]

heres a brilliant examination of issue 10, from geoff klock's blog (who has an equally brilliant essay about DK2 in the book BATMAN UNAUTHORIZED)


First off, this issue is paced much differently than most of the previous issues. As I’ve noted before, other issues in this series actually read very quickly. I can usually finish one in about 10 minutes (about half the time of a standard comic). This issue is denser; most of this can be attributed to a lot more dialogue (mostly internal) than the previous issues. Speaking of which, Miller’s hard-boiled style is in fine form here:

“A fog settles. Made for lonely walks and stolen kisses. Gotham floats, a cloud city, her million plaintive cries muffled, her predators moving freely, silently, leaving not even shadows.”

“Take an airplane over Gotham at night and she looks like diamonds against black velvet.”

“…. Every scurrying rat sounds like Satan’s claws….”

“A six year-old boy screams as bullets turn his mother’s brain into a wad and, almost two decades later, he still screams. He still screams and he’ll never stop screaming.”

A lot of people have criticized Miller as being particularly over-the-top on this series (one critic, apparently, suggested that the only way to save the series was to reprint it sans dialogue and let the reader fill in their own words) and, while there have been some cringe worthy moments, this issue is CLASSIC Miller. Sure, it’s melodramatic… but Miller has always been melodramatic. How is this any more over the top than lines like “The rain on my chest is a baptism” or “It’s the night when the city smells call out to him” from The Dark Knight Returns? To Miller, this is the kind of language he loves; it’s Hammet, Chandler and Spilane, these are his great poets. To him, this is poetry and, at times, I’m inclined to agree.

Miller makes great use of Gordon here as well who, as he did in Year One, takes center stage for much of the issue. Geoff has noted that Miller doesn’t like cops, actually that’s only partially true: he hates a) corrupt cops or b) clean cops who are too naïve to see the corruption around them (i.e. Superman and Green Lantern). However, he likes “good cops”; especially when they are ‘hard men’ like Gordon. Miller, by the end of the issue, will call back to hints dropped in Year One about Gordon’s past when, after Barbara tells him that “he has never done anything to tarnish [his] badge” he thinks:

“I wish on my soul that were true, my darling. But there’s no need for you to ever know about Chicago.”

This is something that, as far as I know, neither Miller nor any other writer has really followed up on; even in Year One he leaves it vague, all that we know is that Gotham is meant to be a fresh start after some sort of ‘trouble’ Gordon was involved with in Chicago (I think there was some implication in Year One that he was on the take but, after his conscience got the best of him, he turned on the other, dirtier cops).

In the issue’s opening, Miller also uses Gordon to make fun of his own hard-boiled verbosity as Gordon delivers a very noir-ish monologue (cue lonely saxophone music in the distance), seemingly to no one, only to have it revealed that he has actually been talking to Batman who has been walking just beneath him on the docks (Panel Watch: page 3, Gordon leaning against the flashback panels. This is straight out of the Spirit. Just as Jason noted that Miller’s Eisner influence shaped Claremont’s economy of words in the Wolverine mini-series, so here does it influence Lee’s visuals).

And then, in my favorite moment from the issue, Gordon thinks:

“And does Mister Goddamn Batman say so much as “thanks”? Of course not, that’d hardly be GRIM AND GRITTY, would it? The jerk…”

First of all, Miller is acknowledging his own part in what would become the “Grim and Gritty” era of comics while simultaneously ridiculing it by having Gordon dismiss it by calling Batman a ‘Jerk.’ It’s also important to note that Gordon’s assessment of Batman as a ‘Jerk’ is important for how Miller views Batman; he has always felt that Batman should NOT be your buddy. He’s supposed to be scary, he’s not your friend but he’s the first guy you’d want to have your back in a dark alley. This informs so much of the way that Miller has portrayed the character, particularly in this series.

Miller gives us an interesting bit of background on Batman and Catwoman: they knew each other and were romantically involved in their adolescence. Hmmm, two people who share a young romance and grow up to be on opposite sides of the law? Sound familiar to anyone?

Batgirl is back in this issue and I get the feeling that Miller likes her a lot more than Robin and is using her as a sort of Carrie Kelly stand in. I also love that she is the ‘****ing Batgirl’. I love the contrast of this with ‘The Goddamned Batman”. “Goddamned” is a very adult swear; it is a blasphemy and, as such, it carries weight. “****ing” is a child’s curse word; it is shocking for the sake of shock and exactly the kind of thing that a rebellious youth would say to rail against the world.

I also like how, later in the issue, Gordon decides not to come down hard on his daughter because, as far as he’s concerned, she’s being hard enough on herself but, just a few issues earlier, you’ll remember that she was boasting about how great she was at bullshitting her dad. She’s playing him like a violin.

Black Canary shows up again, this time busting up a ring of internet pornographers and taking their money. She considers gathering her own group of “merry men” to assist her in her Robin Hood style crusade, quite appropriate when one considers that her main love interest has always been none other than Green Arrow (this really makes me hope Ollie is going to show up in the series… and maybe even the Question, I always loved that bit between the two in The Dark Knight Strikes Again).

So why has Miller decided to bring in Batgirl, Black Canary and Catwoman into a story that is, basically, supposed to be a Batman and Robin tale? It’s because Miller knows his comics history, particularly in terms of its controversies. He hasn’t addressed it directly yet, but I think he’s playing with something that is an inescapable part of the history of the Batman and Robin partnership: Frederic Wertham’s assertions that they were a “wish dream of two homosexuals living together.” DC answered Wertham’s original accusation by having Batman and Robin start hanging around with girls a lot more and the original Batwoman was, in fact, created specifically to address this concern (in a bit of what I am sure is intentional irony [is such a thing possible] the new Batwoman is a lesbian). Miller dodged the issue in The Dark Knight Returns by simply making Robin female; here, he does just what DC did over fifty years ago: he gives the boys some girls to play with.

The last page of the issue is great. A distraught Gordon, his wife in the ER and his daughter in Jail, phones Sara Essen (who we all know will one day become his wife) and says to her:

“Right now. Just tell me about your day. I just want to hear your voice…”

Then, in his internal monologue, thinks:

“She washes over me and there’s no pain or guilt in the world.”

This is a pretty powerful (and powerfully ****ed-up) moment that highlights how well Miller writes Gordon. In many ways, his Gordon is a much better character than his Batman. He’s far more complex in some ways and much more human. As a result, he gives us someone we can relate to.

We also see the hints of Gordon’s deepening friendship with “The Goddamned Batman” when he thinks that:

“There is one man I’d love to talk to. To tell all my problems to. One person. A man. […] and I’m not even supposed to know his real name.”

I love that he says he isn’t ‘supposed’ to know his real name; this is something many Batman writers, including Miller, have played with: the fact that Gordon has probably long since figured out who Batman is but, for the sake of their ‘professional relationship,’ plays dumb.

All in all, All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder might be the tightest issue yet. This is, possibly, the best issue of Batman Miller has done since Year One. In much of the previous issues, Miller verged (and quite possibly crossed over into) self-parody. Here, he comes across much like his earlier work. Each issue of this series just keeps getting better and better… and I don’t care if I’m the only one who feels that way.

[NickRocks]

some more stuff i never noticed or thought of


Batman and Black Canary, right after beating the crap out of some criminals, lay down on the docks for some lovin'. They keep their masks on, because it's better that way (by the way, surprisingly little is made of the fact that this is a clear reference to Watchmen, when Nite Owl and Silk Spectre do the same thing, and for the same reason).

Originally, I took the Lightning Bolt in the center panel as a simple, all purpose metaphor for sex. Than it occured to me - for several pages leading up to this, Canary is all over Batman's jock. Telling him how hot he is, fauning over him like a lovestruck damsel. IMMEDIATELY after the sex, she's treating him like a total chump.

That lightning bolt isn't just a metaphor for sex, it was the LENGTH of the sex. The Goddamn Batman was done in seconds. Look how proud he is of himself in that last panel, and look how let down & vaguely disgusted Canary is (don't tell me Jim Lee is incapable of subtlety). It's clear as day - The Goddamn Batman is overcompensating for his lack of prowess. It fits in nicely with Miller's mockery of the tough guy Batman that he himself helped create (remember Gordon's annoyance with Batman's self-conscious "grim and gritty" style in issue 10).

Note also that he immediately goes to bragging about his car, arguably the most stereotypical male overcompensation for penis size and lack of sexual prowess. Then note how pissy he gets when she mocks his "car" and calls it queer.

This is such a great comic.

[Popninja]

Hmmm ... I thought the story telling was aweful and that the backgrounds and figure work was inconsistent throughout the entire story. Don't get me wrong Nick ... I think Miller has the chops ... I can't remember another artist who has as good a grasp of positive and negative space ... but DK2 is personally a drop down for me.

Did you actually read the entire series, though? I ask because I know someone who said how horrible it was and it turned out that the art turned them off so much that they didn't bother to read the actual words in the story. I'll even admit that some of the art in DK2 can assault your senses, because you know what kind of visuals Miller is capable of, yet he's purposefully changed his style for this particular story. And it's not a very attractive style.

I truly believe had Miller delivered DK2 with art that matched what he had done on any title pre-Sin City: Hell and Back, that there wouldn't have been anywhere near the backlash that was received.

[NickRocks]

I also think that if DK2 had been with any other characters, like if miller had made up his own superheroes, then thered be no doubt of its awesomeness.

[spidey976]

Did you actually read the entire series, though? I ask because I know someone who said how horrible it was and it turned out that the art turned them off so much that they didn't bother to read the actual words in the story. I'll even admit that some of the art in DK2 can assault your senses, because you know what kind of visuals Miller is capable of, yet he's purposefully changed his style for this particular story. And it's not a very attractive style.

I truly believe had Miller delivered DK2 with art that matched what he had done on any title pre-Sin City: Hell and Back, that there wouldn't have been anywhere near the backlash that was received.

Yeah ... read the entire thing through ... cover to cover ... admit I forgot some of it ... so I went back to it. I will admit the story is okay ... but the art is not anywhere close to being Miller at his best ... in fact IMO it lacks all of Miller's genious period. Heck some of his roughs for the actual story are better then what ended up in the books themselves. Case in point http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=7576. Personally there is nothing in those books that compares to this piece for me. What pissed me off about this whole book is I know Miller could do better and didn't. It makes me feel like he phoned it in. In fact if Miller had posted some of those pages in the sequential forum here under a fake name ... well I think he would have been torn into.

For me there is no awesomness in DK2 just dissapointment. The thing is in the end it is my oppinion. It doesn't make me right ... just able to have an informed oppinion. Also, just thinking that the Dick Grayson in these books SPOILERS is going to turn into a shape shifting murdering psychopath is just a bit off to me.
Again ... just my oppinion

[NickRocks]

on another note...ive never seen this pic before and im now officially in love with it

http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=6759

[lost-spartan]

http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=6759

I didn't know Superman was asian. :confused: :p

[NickRocks]

LOL! i think he was going for the old timey feel. he mightve went too far though.

http://www.virtualstampclub.com/images/superman.jpg

http://www.sitcomboy.com/LoisLane/Superman27.jpg

[N.O.D.]

Asian Superman makes the world a better place by throwing ugly children into the sun.

[hellblazer72]

miller's superman likes to take kids into space then pulls the oxygen hose out of their helmets so he can see their heads explode.. because he's muther****in superman

[Popninja]

miller's superman likes to take kids into space then pulls the oxygen hose out of their helmets so he can see their heads explode.. because he's muther****in superman

Actually, not to go too much into fanboy mode, but if Miller's Batman is the extreme depiction, then it would stand to figure that Miller's Superman would be the antithesis of his Batman. Meaning the Ultimate Boy Scout.

Get it right. Yeeesh!!:rolleyes:


;)

[spidey976]

Actually, not to go too much into fanboy mode, but if Miller's Batman is the extreme depiction, then it would stand to figure that Miller's Superman would be the antithesis of his Batman. Meaning the Ultimate Boy Scout.

Get it right. Yeeesh!!:rolleyes:


;)

Actually isn't that the way Miller showed Supes in both DKR and DK2. Supes was the giant nieve boyscout to Batmans gritty kick in the teeth rebel. Supes follows the lead of the government almost to the bitter end until SPOILERS His and Wonder Woman's daughter comes down to kick some serious tail. Then he starts to get involved. The only thing he sems to do is drop WW every so often to have babies.

Nick ... I do have to say that Supes piece is excellent .. that is the kind of work I love to see from Miller.

[lost-spartan]

Straight from DiDio's mouth;


19. What’s the current status of All Star Batman and Robin?

DD: On hiatus.

Wow, I'm betting '09 will be the first year for not a single ASBAR issue to come out at all. Miller and Lee should be kicked in the nads til DiDio can feel it, and gets some f*cking control over these two. It's a shame for coming up with such a great series that Miller can't stop pretending to be a director long enough to write a few a pages, and Lee can't even dedicate himself to 22 pages a month at least 3 or 4 times a year. Asshats.

[50%grey]

The DC game is in the can, so Lee may be either taking a serious vacation,or may be working on it currently.

[Popninja]

Wow, I'm betting '09 will be the first year for not a single ASBAR issue to come out at all. Miller and Lee should be kicked in the nads til DiDio can feel it, and gets some f*cking control over these two. It's a shame for coming up with such a great series that Miller can't stop pretending to be a director long enough to write a few a pages, and Lee can't even dedicate himself to 22 pages a month at least 3 or 4 times a year. Asshats.

It really is a shame. Those two are setting a precedent that does not bode well for the future of monthly comics.

[Chris Major]

It really is a shame. Those two are setting a precedent that does not bode well for the future of monthly comics.

Dude, where have you been? Remember Image in the 90s: when was ANY of those books on time?

I maintain that Jim Lee is one of the most unreliable of artist SPECIFICALLY because he's so popular. I can't remember him ever being on time since his X-Men run except for Hush, and that's because they had some severe, constant pressure on them. Thankfully.

As for Miller... 'nuff said.

[Popninja]

Dude, where have you been? Remember Image in the 90s: when was ANY of those books on time?

I maintain that Jim Lee is one of the most unreliable of artist SPECIFICALLY because he's so popular. I can't remember him ever being on time since his X-Men run except for Hush, and that's because they had some severe, constant pressure on them. Thankfully.

As for Miller... 'nuff said.

Well, with Hush, they made sure he had a few issues in the can before they solicited it. He still ended up running late before the very end of it, but like you said, it was pretty much on time, which had been unheard of for a Jim Lee book since his Marvel days.

However, even with Image, their books were never so late that only one or two issues came out in a year. Or were they?

[NickRocks]

As for Miller... 'nuff said.

whats that supposed to mean? Miller doesnt have a history of being late.

[50%grey]

Jim Lee should do an interview and blame it all on miller.
Saying he was the one waiting for the scripts,haha.

[lost-spartan]

Jim Lee should do an interview and blame it all on miller.
Saying he was the one waiting for the scripts,haha.

Then Miller can respond "Jim Lee who? Angelina Jolie wanted to be in Sin City 2. I've no time for the funny books, I'm a di-rec-tor now, a mover, a shaker. I'm much to important to be bothered with funny books."

[Popninja]

From this week's LitG:


LITG mentioned Grant Morrison working with Frank Quitely on a Batbook a while ago, that title appears to be "Batman And Robin," with rotating artists. Quitely to start for three issues, with more to come. One poster on Funnybook Babylon names Philip Tan for the next three, Doug Mahnke for three more and a final three from Quitely.

and...


The above story does throw a vague spotlight onto various chasms within DC Comics. And the antagonism amongst some DC staffers over the very existence of the "All Star Batman And Robin The Boy Wonder" title. They pushed the editor, first to Vertigo then out the door. They diluted Jim Lee's available time. And took full advantage of the Pottymouth Batman issue in terms of internal squabbling. And now? "Batman And Robin" by the "All Star Superman" team.

It's almost as if they're trying to say something.

Very interesting. One wonders what the fate of ASBARTBW will be. Excited to see Quitely with Morrison again. They're a marriage made in heaven.

[lost-spartan]

That'd be fuggin sweet if Morrison and Quitely could pull off another All Star Supes quality level book with Batman. It'd even come out on time to boot.

As for ASBAR, it seems like no one wants the book to see the light of day except for the fans of it. :(

[NickRocks]

Then Miller can respond "Jim Lee who? Angelina Jolie wanted to be in Sin City 2. I've no time for the funny books, I'm a di-rec-tor now, a mover, a shaker. I'm much to important to be bothered with funny books."

haha and then he can call jim unproffessional. that would be fuggin brilliant





As for ASBAR, it seems like no one wants the book to see the light of day except for the fans of it. :(

which only seems to be me :confused:

[AlexT17]

Jim Lee should do an interview and blame it all on miller.
Saying he was the one waiting for the scripts,haha.

Lee pretty much put the blame on Grant Morrison for late scripts on Wildcats.

[Chris Major]

Huh. For ONE issue of WildCats seeing the light of day... and then spelling doom for any chance for a Wildstorm universe revival. Yeah, blame it on Morrison. He's a big writer-guy, he can take it :rolleyes:

Why, again, was Jim Lee made Editor of the Wildstorm line? Was there a business need for this except to ensure that this imprint never created undue competition to DC's main titles?

For all the hate that gets thrown Joe Q's way, I'll never understand how DC gets run like that and still manages to profit. So much potential, yet...

[NickRocks]

I dont really understand what it is Jim spends all his time doing lately. seriously, hes on his myspace all the time, but theres never any mention of his workload or what hes up to. I think hes been spending a bit too much time with the gf.

[50%grey]

Hes rich and horny!

[NickRocks]

nothing wrong with that, but damn...let us know you arent working on ASBAR or something!!! he posted a sickass robin sketch in his photo albums and that just made me wish for the next issue worse.

[50%grey]

Here you go Nick...lol


ALL-STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN, THE BOY WONDER VOL. 1 TP

Written by Frank Miller, art and cover by Jim Lee and Scott Williams.

Now available in softcover format! Lee and Miller join forces to tell a new version of Dick Grayson's origin in a high-octane tale that unfolds with guest appearances by Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Black Canary and more! This volume collects issues #1-9 of the explosive series! Plus a Lee sketchbook and a variant cover gallery.

240 pages, $19.99, in stores on June 24.

[NickRocks]

already have it.

[50%grey]

already have it.

It is the soft cover ,sir.The Goddamn SOFTCOVER!

[SHAMWOW!]

im going to exercise will power and wait until the absolute version of ASBAR comes out.

[lost-spartan]

They go any slower, you might get the Absolute ASBAR just in time to bury you with it after you die of old age. :( :D

[SHAMWOW!]

i just have to hope that the blackest night rings gets me then.. so i revive so i can read it..

[NickRocks]

They go any slower, you might get the Absolute ASBAR just in time to bury you with it after you die of old age. :( :D

oh, but if it has even HALF the extras of Absolute Dark Knight it would be worth the wait.

[Popninja]

oh, but if it has even HALF the extras of Absolute Dark Knight it would be worth the wait.

Too bad you'll be too old to lift it. Maybe someone at the old folks home will help you with it.

[AlexT17]

oh, but if it has even HALF the extras of Absolute Dark Knight it would be worth the wait.

And what kind of extras did Absolute Dark Knight have to make it so special?

[spidey976]

It looks like All Star Is Done for awhile the books ... this is from the most recent 20 Questions with Dan DiDio coloumn on newsarama.

"19. What’s the current status of All Star Batman and Robin?

DD: On hiatus. "

So she is just stopped for now ... which really really sucks.

[NickRocks]

And what kind of extras did Absolute Dark Knight have to make it so special?

well, it had millers original plots for the last book, Dark Knight falls...it had his original proposal to dc for his first idea, simply called Dark Knight, which had alot more stuff with him training....stuff that was later used in year one. It has his pencils and sketches for DKR, and shows some panels of His inks without color.

and then, in my favorite part, it had his DK2 sketches, where he shows his newer technique of drawing...theres a ton of his roughs for the pages....it just has a ton of stuff.

[spidey976]

well, it had millers original plots for the last book, Dark Knight falls...it had his original proposal to dc for his first idea, simply called Dark Knight, which had alot more stuff with him training....stuff that was later used in year one. It has his pencils and sketches for DKR, and shows some panels of His inks without color.

and then, in my favorite part, it had his DK2 sketches, where he shows his newer technique of drawing...theres a ton of his roughs for the pages....it just has a ton of stuff.

There you go again disagreeing and stuff with my beter sensibilities .... ah well I still respect ya ... :D

[50%grey]

So...I'm not sure if there going to keep all star bats going or not esepcialy with the All Star superman crew on the just announced Batman and Robin series.

Batman and Robin? yes please (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/030910-Batman-Quitely.html)

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk84/50grey/078faf601697f0014c4a3af53c75d4d3d23.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk84/50grey/Quitely-Batman.jpg

[NickRocks]

I dont like morrison on batman. and its been confirmed that this ISNT ASBAR, its a new series. get that shit out of here.

oh and according to CBR, they are going to finish ASBAR...its just on hiatus until they can renegotiate the contract for the full 22 or 24 issue run. apparently they have 11 and 12 done but they wont ship it until the contract is settled.

[Popninja]

I dont like morrison on batman. and its been confirmed that this ISNT ASBAR, its a new series. get that shit out of here.

oh and according to CBR, they are going to finish ASBAR...its just on hiatus until they can renegotiate the contract for the full 22 or 24 issue run. apparently they have 11 and 12 done but they wont ship it until the contract is settled.

It may not be ASBAR, but it's a suitable stand-in while they figure out what to do with ASBAR. "Full 22 or 24 issue run?" Really? They plan to finish it up by, what, 2015?

Damn, I loves me some Morrison and Quitely.

[50%grey]

I'd like to see what they do with the batman franchise. Quitely already did some cool batman stuff earlier in his career.

Still not sure what's going on with the ASBAR universe till they make an official announcement.

Kinda weird they would be releasing this new series with the same name as the ASBAR comic is a contract dispute.

[NickRocks]

I do like quietlys stuff, especially when he does that minimalist style he did in ASSM and lets the gorgeous colors do all the work...I just dont like morrison on batman after R.I.P.

EDIT: i just noticed the smoke being a sound effect. heh. and robins eye is way too low in panel 1. did quietly draw this with a ballpoint pen?

and knowing how morrison and miller dont exactly like each other, I wonder how many digs at frank Grant is going to take in this book.

[NickRocks]

newsrama interview with didio....

14. Lately, Jim Lee has been seen mostly working on the DCU Online game. Is there anything planned with him on the comic book side of DC?

DD: Well, he’s still working on All Star Batman and Robin...

NRAMA: Yeah, sure. But is there anything planned with him on the comic book side of DC?

DD: Well, I’ll go back and say again – he’s working on All Star Batman and Robin with Frank Miller. I can say officially now that he and Frank are committed to six more issues of All Star Batman and Robin, and that will bring the story to a close. And they’re working on them now.

NRAMA: “Bring the story to a close” – are you saying that in the same sense as All Star Superman was Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely’s book, and when they were done with that, it was ended, rather than continued with new creators?

DD: Yes.

[spidey976]

hmmm ... 6 more issues ... that could take us to what??? 2013???

[Popninja]

hmmm ... 6 more issues ... that could take us to what??? 2013???

If we're lucky. 6 more issues only takes it to 16, not "22 or 24". At the pace it's been going so far, I'm guessing the story itself will have to be changed dramatically to compact it to 16 issues. They've barely moved at all with first 10.

[spidey976]

Yeah ... gotta say I don't know what the "end" point will be ... the story isn't anywhere near finished ... and it just seems like it is going to have to be wrapped with something stupid ... like "and then the aliens attacked". Now it is a comic book ... but come on.

[NickRocks]

If we're lucky. 6 more issues only takes it to 16, not "22 or 24". At the pace it's been going so far, I'm guessing the story itself will have to be changed dramatically to compact it to 16 issues. They've barely moved at all with first 10.

yeah, im scared of that, :confused:

[NickRocks]

From Newsarama:

Newsarama: Where do you see the All Star line moving forward? Grant and Frank’s All Star Superman has ended, and as you said last time we spoke, once Frank Miller and Jim Lee are done with All Star Batman & Robin – which will take some time – that series will end as well. Is it still going to be a viable place where creators can come to tell their special stories, or is the concept being slowly shelved?

DD: Right now, as we’ve said, Batman & Robin is still running, and Frank and Jim are working on it again, and with All Star Wonder Woman in construction with Adam – the line’s still running. I haven’t seen past that, but depending upon what the lay of the land is, and what creators step forward we’ll see. I’m not saying there is no more All Star line; there are just no All Star plans at this moment.

[NickRocks]

well now i know where to go directly perform fellatio on frank miller...lol...from http://moebiusgraphics.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1726


Thanks to all for your curiosity regarding ASB&R--which I prefer to call ROBIN, because that who it's about.

ROBIN seems to be back on track, via Wildstorm. Jim's keeping me informed. I'm very glad to report this, since the story involves a seminal journey for Dick Grayson, and for Batman himself.

By the way, Jim's delays on the project have nothing to do a lack of diligence. He's an industrious man. Let's give his time: it'll be worth it.

FM


Steven--

Yeah, I've got a whopper of a Superman story I'd love to tell--a third DK, in fact, and it'd involve Wonder Woman an Lara--but I think I've already pushed DC to their limit. These are multibillion-dollar franchises, after all--they have to protect them from pirates like me.

But who knows? ANYTHING can happen.

FM

[lost-spartan]

While I'd rather only wait for 6 rather than 12 or 14 issues, I'm hoping they can really cover some ground and let Robin really come into his own in the ASBAR world. The book has been moving slower than roadkill, but they have established everything you need for Miller to go crazy with those 6 issues. Only time will tell. Unfortunately :(

[AlexT17]

While I'd rather only wait for 6 rather than 12 or 14 issues, I'm hoping they can really cover some ground and let Robin really come into his own in the ASBAR world. The book has been moving slower than roadkill, but they have established everything you need for Miller to go crazy with those 6 issues. Only time will tell. Unfortunately :(

The book has focused very heavily on Batman as opposed to being all about Robin and there are too many subplotted characters that are still uncompleted. This book could go in any way.

[NickRocks]

I tweeted about it yesterday. Working on it. Got 2 scripts! RT @LiquidSharpie: @jimlee00 hey jim, whats up with ASBAR?1:27 PM Jun 27th from TwitterFon

tencharacters

[Popninja]

The longer it takes, though...

I mean, the thrill is gone now...

It's hard to believe that title debuted in July 2005.

[NickRocks]

yeah at this point, i just want it to end. thats all im asking for. If this thing cant end, just pull the plug. its a shame this had to happen, because Miller has always said he hates lateness in comics. Never thought hed be the type to do this

[spidey976]

4 years ... what are we at ... 10 or 11 issues .... 2.5 issues a year ... one every 6 months roughly ... and lets be honest ... there have been almost whole YEARS where nothing came out just rediculous

[AlexT17]

4 years ... what are we at ... 10 or 11 issues .... 2.5 issues a year ... one every 6 months roughly ... and lets be honest ... there have been almost whole YEARS where nothing came out just rediculous

Yeah, 2009 probably being one of them.

[NickRocks]

via jim lees twitter

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l48/NickGuy_2006/app6448731256376738.jpg

[Popninja]

^Yeah, I saw that. It's actually a couple of weeks old, isn't it?

At this pace, my kid will just be graduating high school when the next issue hits(2015);).

Seriously, though... I wonder how much of a real chore it is for Lee to work on this now that it's become such an embarrassment because of its lateness.

[spidey976]

^Yeah, I saw that. It's actually a couple of weeks old, isn't it?

At this pace, my kid will just be graduating high school when the next issue hits(2015);).

Seriously, though... I wonder how much of a real chore it is for Lee to work on this now that it's become such an embarrassment because of its lateness.

As HUGE a Lee fan as I am ... I just don't really give a damn about this one anymore. Hell I have met my wife gotten married and had kids since this thing started. I KNOW Lee has the scripts ... just hand them over to an artist who can get the job done and call it a HUGE MISTAKE.

Edit: I do have to say that I think this years ASBR is the biggest disappointment ... ONE page for 12 months.

[NickRocks]

so a whole year went by without the best comic book evar....

:(

[Popninja]

Has it really been a full year? Wow...

[lost-spartan]

Has it really been a full year? Wow...

Qouted for serious mother f*cking truth.

[AlexT17]

First day of 2010. Let's see how many issues will come out this year....