Some people should not be allowed to watch movies...

[MC Fumunda]

*sigh*

Okay, I need some deep breathing to calm down a bit...

So this evening I watched one of my all time favorite films, American History X. It's easily in my top three.

After watching it I'm all amped up about how well shot it was and the acting and the message and its brutal delivery and whatnot, and as I usually do when I'm done watching a movie I hopped on IMDB.com to check out trivia and goofs.

Now, I don't usually make this mistake, but for some reason tonight, I actually read some of the user reviews. Some were insiteful and well written. Some...were...goddammit. Now I'm getting mad again.

Okay, so if that wasn't bad enough, I made the even bigger mistake of reading reviews on Amazon.com.

...then came the disgust.

For real, some people should honestly not be allowed to watch films. They just shouldn't. Or better yet, they shouldn't be allowed to write reviews for something they don't understand.

Does this not kill you???

WARNING - THE FOLLOWING WILL HAVE A FEW SPOILERS FOR AMERICAN HISTORY X. IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET, DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND WATCH IT BEFORE READING MY RANT.


Ok, i liked this film i guess. The First time i saw Edward as a skin head after Fight Club and DEATH TO SMOOTCHY. First off They Ended this movie in good ways and bad and i found it a little pointless.
1.Begining of film before you meet the NEW Dave, Some kid was getting jumped in the bathroom. The little brother of dave (that one kid from termenator 2) decided to try to get them to stop, So he "Faced Them" and Blew Smoke in this kids face.
2. End He Finds Out All The Reasons why dave had changed and gives up nazizm, Then He Has his report but goes to the bathroom, And Then Gets Shot a couple times by the one kid he blew smoke at...
3.Ok that kid must of been REALLY F**KED IN THE HEAD, Killing someone for blowing smoke in their face.
4.It was sad and unexpected.

Okay, first, he got the goddamned character's name wrong. He's not DAVE. He's Derek.

And does this guy seriously not understand the underlying implications of everything that lead up to the ending of the movie where he gets shot, so much so that he can just gloss over "All The Reasons why dave had changed and gives up nazizm..." (which is the point of the film and how the message gets delivered) and focuses on "Jeez, that killing was unexpected and the perpetrator must have really been messed up for doing it."

The whole goddamn film is an essay on how these things escalate to this point!! YAERGH!!

Oh, and this reviewer gives minus points to the movie for its "racist elements"...


Well This film has many racist elements.

1.Edward Has A Big Swashtica Tattoed Into his chest.
2.The Bastetball game, When the skin head whens the blacks get off the court and for some reason, HAPPY WINNING music is on. Thats kinda bad.
3.His friend in prision, How come he only talks about KKK or Sex(well from what you hear).
4.The Infamous Bathroom Scene.

Wow, that's crazy that a neo-nazi character would have a "swashtica" tattooed on his chest. How could that possibly have a home in this film?!

And the people that completely miss the message in a film. They're the last people that should be laying down a judgement...


This is a great movie, don't get me wrong. It was well written and the cast was exceptional. The only reason I gave it 4 stars instead of 5 is because of the ending. I'm sure many people have written about the end of this movie and why it seems so wrong. The whole movie basically centers around the fact that racism is wrong and then at the end a black kid has to kill Daniel, who has struggled the whole time realizing that racism is wrong. What is the point? This only shows the ignorance that many people have, which is sad because it is true. Racism is not only white against black - it goes both ways.

...

I guess this has been just kinda a rant, but I see this kinda stuff all the time on message boards.

Time to cool down...

[bfowler]

Man, now you've gone and got me upset but that's just the way many people are today. You don't have to think for yourself today. Most people need every little thing spelled out for them. The last thing you want someone to do after a movie is think.

[Vargas Prime]

I definitely agree about American History X being one of my favorite movies.

It's strange... You would think that people who like movies enough to post reviews on a film-related internet site would be a little more savvy about film in general. The fact that someone could be so oblivious, and then take the time to actually post their uninformed or unintelligent thoughts on the internet for the world to see is sad.

I feel your pain man. Just one of the many reasons that PJ is one of the few message boards I have ever visited with any kind of regularity.

[misfitX]

you're right MC. some people just shouldn't watch movies. and others shouldn't read what they wrote about movies they shouldn't have watched.
and frankly...i wish i hadn't read those eithers. they were kinda funny, but damn, American History X is one of my favorites as well and...grrr...you see where i'm going with this. hopefully i won't ever have to meet any of these people. that is, if there really is a god.

[...o...k....]

Wasn't the whole point of the movie about ending evil? Yeah, I shouldn't write reviews either.

[Tight-Pants Jack]

I once met a guy who didn't like the X-Men movie "because it had a story in it."

He believes that movies would be so much better if they didn't waste so much time on dumb things like "dialogue" or "plot."

I wanted to punch him SO MUCH.

I think afterwards he went and jerked-off while watching The Fast and the Furious.

[Justice41]

So, what was the movie really about? I thought it was a silly movie myself. I really Laugh everytime I see a movie that tries to tell people that Black people are this or that and White people are this and that. Ridiculous. This movie was as silly as 8 mile and that movie was just down and out stupid. I really love how Directors and writers are always trying to force feed everyone their silly views on things they obviously know nothing about. If I never see another piece of crap movie that has the black guy in prison be the white guys saviour, It'll be a happy day.
Boyz in da hood the white version. Ha!

[Akira X]

Uh yeah... the point is if you didn't pay attention to the movie, its better to not think anything about it rather than thinking its silly when you can't even remember what it was about. Whats the point? You dont need an opinion for everything.

[James42]

Yeah this reminds me of a friend of mine whom his main comment on a film is usually the quality of chick in it. As in."Cool movie man, Scarlet Johannson has awesome knockers!'
I guess people take what they want from films, no matter how powerful or heavyhanded the message is.

[astrocity20]

So you're mad because people are stupid? :p Oh what a world, what a world.

[Crimson Spider]

"Swashtica," heh.

And yeah, it's also one of my favorites. I remember getting really depressed after watchng it the first time.

But are you that surprised by those people's comments? For ****'s sake, look at Justice41's reply.

[krikkit13]

Well, I'm not surprised by the level of intelligence displayed at imdb, that's for sure... Hop on to their message boards sometime if you want to see some truly inane discussions.

I liked the film, but am curious as to what it was supposed to be. The director basically disowned it, but the guild wouldn't let him take his name off it. I think I heard that Ed Norton actually ended up editing the majority of the film.

[xadrian]

imdb boards are unmoderated, you can basically go on there and post any old shit and get away with it.

Their submissions policy for data isn't much better. PJ is a utopia compared to that place.

[Justice41]

I liked the flick but it like all movies are shallow. I usually hate preachy flicks like this but I like Norton.
Still think the good hearted, black, fellon who redeems the white, bad guy cliche is just too overused.
Hollywood cliche No.2. :p

[fatmancomics]

The one thing I've always said about this movie is that it's dangerous because, if you have someone with the (original) mindset of the main character in real life, the ending will just make him say, "See, the kid changes his spots and he still gets killed by a black thug in the end". Nevermind that the point is that the younger brother was already known as a racist and that's what led to his death. The point is clear to those who want to see it but not clear enough to those who might not be so willing to see it.
To me this movie ranks one notch above White Man's Burden and that's not a good thing.

[Justice41]

That's funny. White Man's Burden,Gufaaaaaaa!!!!
What's truly funny is people getting upset over other people's opinions. It's almost like they have no tolerance for those who don't think like they do or don't like the things they like.
That is an F'ed up mindset. I don't pay much attention to Opinions. They aren't facts just observations.
I'd also hate to think that people are looking for meaning in Movies. Movies! It's just a movie. Getting upset because someone doesn't,"get it" is silly. Enjoy what you like and share it with like minded people and ignore the naysayers, including me and........................................

[Knigge]

Except most people act like their naysaying opinions are proclamations of fact....

[fatmancomics]

That's funny. White Man's Burden,Gufaaaaaaa!!!!
What's truly funny is people getting upset over other people's opinions. It's almost like they have no tolerance for those who don't think like they do or don't like the things they like.
That is an F'ed up mindset. I don't pay much attention to Opinions. They aren't facts just observations.
I'd also hate to think that people are looking for meaning in Movies. Movies! It's just a movie. Getting upset because someone doesn't,"get it" is silly. Enjoy what you like and share it with like minded people and ignore the naysayers, including me and........................................


Exactly! I still remember that I was the first one to give Sky Craptain a negative review in this forum and all hell broke loose. Then a few weeks later the same people praising that monstrosity were getting down on some kid for liking AVP. They're just movies people! That's why they have so many different genres of that medium. So that they can market it to anyone. Just because someone else doesn't like your favorite one doesn't make them any less (or more) intelligent. It just makes them less like you.

[Akira X]

You guys are missing the point. Reread the quotes Matty posted. Those people are morons.

Its about how people make judgements based on incomplete knowledge and their own incompetence and blaming the movie instead of themselves. Stop trying to simplify the issue down to something as obtuse as "naysaying."

[MC Fumunda]

See, I don't care if they like it or not. I'm just completely annoyed by their miseducated reviews being slathered all over the internet. I know that's dumb, but that's why it was a rant.

People can hate stuff I love, that's fine. If they have a good reason to. If they completely missed the point of something and that's why they don't like it, yeah, that bugs me.

And Justice's point about the cliche in the film is a valid one. See, his review is fine. It's educated. He saw the film, understood the message, and critiqued part of it.

I'd just hate the idea of such a powerful well done film being avoided because someone read a review online by someone who didn't know what the **** they were talking about.

C'mon, when you guys really like something, you don't want to share the goodness of it and have other people being exposed to it? It's just how we work. And when there's misinformed naysayers hurting the chances of exposure of something you dig...doesn't it bug you?

It's not like I lost any sleep over this, I was just really bothered at the time and thought I'd drum up some conversation that related to it. I'm not trying to make this thread specifically about American History X, it's just what sparked the conversation for me. This happens all the time with a huge variety of movies.

And I'm not so passive about movies. I don't have the same attitiude as "it's just a movie!". I think film is a huge part of our culture and is a reflection of it. I went to film school and studied film, and screenwriting, so I probably watch films a lot differently than a lot of people. I'm a lot more critical and analytical with my viewing. And I'm not saying that makes me better in any way, but that's just in defense of how I react to things about film.

[Knigge]

I think its pretty much inevitable that this conversation was going to head the way it did. People don't like hearing that they could possibly be ignoramuses, because they make the same moronic, biased, and uneducated remarks, thus they categorize it as "opinion".

[Stark Raving]

The IMDB boards are their own special kind of Hell for movie lovers. I stopped reading them a long time ago.

You should check out the boards at joblo.com. Much better.

[Justice41]

I really don't care why anyone likes or dislikes anything. That's their own personal preferences, not mine. I also don't care what motivates a criminal, just wanna know if they did it or not. So whether an opinion is biased, unedumacated or just stupid, I don't care, makes no never mind to me.
I like what I like because that's what I like. If your basing your likes and dislikes on others opinions, well what can I say but Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!
Now get the bleet outta ere.

[Knigge]

Don't think anyone was saying they were.

[Justice41]

"By your words and actions shall you be known".
The fact some get upset does mean that they do care and have put stock in what others say. If you're (not You, everyone) so sure of your beliefs and opinions then why get upset at someone who doesn't see it your way?
There's an emotional investment in there somewhere, where the approval of others means something.
You know, actors take roles like this to establish themselves as a real actor not some flava a da month.
Kinda like Halle or that Blond who was in Monster or any man or woman that lost weight, gained weight or allowed themselves to be seen at their worst. Hollywood eats that crap up and obviously so do some.
Hollyweird slaps themselves on the back for allowing themselves to be vulnerable like the old broad in that weird movie directed by the guy who did PI. Aronofsky? Requiem of, for a dream? Whatever.
Movies like that are a ticket to Oscar. And I don't mean a Wylde Goldman Weiner either.

[50%grey]

Speaking of movies, anyone see "Primer" yet? what a cool flick

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390384/

[Knigge]

That's not what you said. Having a reaction to what someone says is one thing, but you're saying that their bias'/opinions are affected by someone elses, simply because they react to it. Emotion and opinions aren't the same thing, and you're alluding as if they are. If they were then your little statement about not being affected by other people's opinions is pretty much bunk, because you always react to other people's opinions, specifically when it comes to movies. You act as if everyone should just throw out their opinion as if it matters and walk away, like its a survey.

[Ichbin Der Ausgang]

When I first saw and heard about American History X I thought it was about a faux-reality where the Nazis won the war.
Boy was I dissapointed.




That it wasnt about that.


The movie was good. I wish they had used the title on an alternate history movie instead though, that would be freakin rad. I think. :confused: :rolleyes:

[Beastie]

I love American History X.

As far as the reviews that Matty posted go, - they're annoying, but who's going to read them and take them seriously?

Surely only 'other' morons?

And who cares if the moron crowd want to perpetuate their ignorance in such matters?

The fact that you have recognised the comments as ill-informed and 'wrong' just means that your level of understanding is greater than theirs.

Thats all.

[Spectre-7]

The movie was good. I wish they had used the title on an alternate history movie instead though, that would be freakin rad. I think. :confused: :rolleyes:

But there's already a title ready for that film... The Man in the High Castle.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679740678/qid=1118737030/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-3077287-7044638?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Ichbin Der Ausgang]

But there's already a title ready for that film... The Man in the High Castle.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679740678/qid=1118737030/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-3077287-7044638?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

OH SNAP!!!!!!

Quick, somebody hide this from Steven Spielberg!!!! :eek:

[Ichbin Der Ausgang]

In all seriousness, I assume this is the P.K.D story the movie studios are saving for last after they make debacles of the remainder of his stories.

Blade Runner: Good
Total Recall: Good
Minority Report: Mediocre
Paycheck: Gags
Scanner Darkly: ?



That could be one of the best movies ever
Or it could be as bad as PAYCHECK starring Ben Affleck And Uma Thurman. On DVD and VHS everywhere.


P.S. Why have I not Heard of this story????

[fatmancomics]

But there's already a title ready for that film... The Man in the High Castle.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679740678/qid=1118737030/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-3077287-7044638?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Actually, there's already a film. It's called Fatherland starring Rutger Hauer. Was a cable movie made for HBO or Cinemax, not sure. It was actually pretty good. The Nazis win the war and open their walls to tourism and trade in the 60s. Rutger plays a captain in the SS investigating a murder and uncovers the holocaust. His character is one of those guys who has complete faith in the system he's a part of until he uncovers the truth. Very Logan's Run and, when you think about it, very American History X only better execution.

But I still agree with Justice (and trust me, it's not easy to type that without getting a bad taste in my mouth) on the issue of tastes. Anyone who would be dismayed by a movie review doesn't have too much individuality to begin with. Let alone someone who would listen to a review typed by someone who can't even spell or use proper grammar. In the end, though, it's still a matter of taste. Everyone has different tastes. I like slapstick comedies and my fiance hates them. She won't even think of sitting down with me to watch a Chaplin movie and she tired of Jackie Chan pretty quickly. But she can't get enough Jet Li films eventhough I think he does the same five moves in every fight scene.
It doesn't make the movies I like any less funny or the movies she likes any less action... action-y. The only things that are definites in that medium (and most mediums for that matter) are techniques and styles. Those can be appreciated without content. What was that movie about the KKK in the 30s? Rise of the South or the South Rising? That movie was banned throughout most of the United States because, even in the 30s, it was offensive but that director is still praised for his technical achievements which influenced film makers and are still used today.

[Ed]

its a message board.


is there anything else that really needs to be said?