1st new Sequential in a long time...

[Phil Clark]

I have started working on new pages for Asylum: Heaven in the hopes that it will be picked up by Diamond and so that I can have new pages to show when I go to a convention in Collinsville, Ill next month. Here is the first new page from Asylum: Heaven number 2 with part of the first panel removed since it contains a spoiler for issue one. Just suffice it to say that the Doctor character is looking into a room where something important is going on.

*** Art updated, see reply ***

Comments?

[Chris Piers]

Might add interest if you showed backgrounds or varied up the shots to include high angle or low angle, or looking through something in the foreground or maybe full body to extreme closeups. I'm not saying to use all those ideas in one page. It's just kinda flat and uninspiring right now to see lots of medium headshots with no expressions other than the guy shakes his head a little in panel 3. Give us SOMETHING.

Also, they might look better if you spotted the blacks or something. That "using an x" thing is really just a timesaver tool for huge black areas. And I imagine you have plenty of time to crank full pages out, right?

[Phil Clark]

The exchange between these characters continues for one more page, and on that page I do use some other camera angles. As soon as I have that page done, I will post it as well.

[penciljack]

I'd push for more solidity in the page. Everything's a bit wispy right now because of the linework (I know you and I have talked about it already, but I think it's worth driving and driving and driving the point home ;) ). As Chris said, spot us some blacks, and maybe give us some bolder lines in some places, especially around the contours of the faces, etc.

Also, looking at it this way, I noticed that you've shot the doctor from the same angle in panel one as in panel two. I'm not sure whether it's gonna be a flashback, or what have you, but it might be nice to maybe change it up at least a little. 'Cause if it's not a flashback, it could be problematic. There's no clear indication of how the guy in the sunglasses enters the scene.

Finally, maybe think about really committing to some more dynamic facial expressions. I like the look of the guy in the last panel, but I'm not sure how to read the doctor's expression. Exaggerate whatever expression you're going for a little in order to sell it more convincingly.

[EddieChingLives]

Talking scenes. Words really help these to know what's going on.

1)Way too much dead space. Also, confusion. I have no idea what he's looking at? A nice wide shot to open the page might help establish to the reader the spacial relationships to everything in the room, and then start with the closeup cuts.
2)It's the same behind the head shot as the first panel? Think about shot varitey. And I'm not sure the overlapping panel is working. Especially for a talking scene. Most people use that for emphasis, and you have two similar shots in a row. Most people setup 2 similar shots as the same panel size.
3)Who's this guy with the mustache? I'm sure it's the guy in the first two panels, but since you didn't establish that in the first panel, it's kinda confusing. Not horribly confusing, but it interupts the smooth transitions from panel to panel. But from this shot one...
4)I like the transition to this shot, a nice pull back....
5)To a nice zoom in on the other guy. Nice sequenceing on the end.

Nice work. Try not to do to many behind the head shots in a row. Wide shots are nice to help setup the next sequence of shots. And Bart Sears' gave a fellow penciljacker advice in finished pencils. Light board it and give everything crisp clean lines.

Good luck Phil. I'm glad things are comming together.

[Chris Piers]

Also, work on hands and ears. There's only one hand and it's not very expressive or convincing. And the ears are all very small and flat. Just practice drawing those things in a mirror or something.

[Phil Clark]

The reason for the similar shots in panels one and two are because we wanted to emphasize that the Character in the Sunglasses suddenly stepped in front of the doctor. I will have to exhaggerate the surprised expression on panel three. And I will rework the hand on panel four. I agree that it is very weak. It only takes about 24 hours to go from thinking the page was pretty good to thinking it needs some work before it is good.

Some of the angles and storytelling are dictated in the script, but I can be a bit more creative in the way I interpret it. Put I do think that this page is better than the last page of the first issue. Right now, it is all about improvement. And I have some improving to do. ;)

Thanks everyone for pointing out the things I should have noticed in the first place.

[Justice41]

haven't read all comments so i may repeat. The large blank panel is going to be stated huh? Or copy and paste in PS. You know Phil, you don't always have to show the figures you know. You could show a foot or a cat or something else. Heads talking is very hard to do especially when the heads are very close to each other and are almost the same size in all the panels. Some extreme closeups would help or maybe a shot of a clenched fist or a twitching hand. You don't always have to show the face to convey emotion.
The fifth panel needs something to tell us that the wall and door is being seen from slight overhead. You didn't establish the two characters relative heights. So maybe the bald guys is shorter than the other guy. You need to toss in a full shot of the figures. Post up or link to some of the older pages. May help to see how this scene came about.

[Chris Piers]

I think Hiroaki Samura and Steve Dillon do fantstic talking heads stuff. You can learn a lot from them. Especially Samura. My God, 70% of Blade of the Immortal must just be people sitting around talking but he makes it so damn interesting.

[Justice41]

It's all about the Angles and POV's my man. I also noticed the heads all seem to lean in one direction.

[muthmaniac]

Just to throw in two more cents, I think that I understand what you're trying to do with the first two panels. So, I would suggest not overlapping them. That's what is kind of throwing the page off and, as Terry said, kind of makes it look like a flashback. If you lowered the second panel to just be even with the third, and made the rest of the panel the same as the first, likw the padding on the door by the guy's face. It would show more clearly that the man with the glasses is showing up, basically from nowhere.

And just for the sake of showing that you're not just skimping on the page, I'd suggest using a color or something besides plain white for the block of the image in the first panel...Right now, it looks like you just have a huge white spot. You know, if I didn't read the exaplanation of why it's like that. :)

nice job though. I'm assuming from how you phrased it, that you'd submitted this book to Diamond and they rejected it?

I wish you lots of luck.

-John

[Phil Clark]

Originally posted by muthmaniac
And just for the sake of showing that you're not just skimping on the page, I'd suggest using a color or something besides plain white for the block of the image in the first panel...Right now, it looks like you just have a huge white spot.

Well, I also overlapped the panels for a specific reason, to show that the events were happening in quick succession. Panel space = time passed so by overlapping the panels I am attempting to show that the panels happen almost simultaneously. As far as blocking the spoiler image instead of deleting it, good point. I will do that in the future.


I'm assuming from how you phrased it, that you'd submitted this book to Diamond and they rejected it?

Actually, the first issue has been submitted and we are waiting to hear back about if it is accepted or not. It was submitted about 2-3 weeks ago, so we should be hearing soon. As soon as I know for sure, I will make an announcement, or an exclamation of disappointment. But rejection doesn't mean it is dead, just that we have more work to do. ;)

[muthmaniac]

I understand what you're saying with the overlapping. But, the thing is that the panels are exactly the same, with the exception of the "Guy" appearing in front of the character. In this instance, I think that having there be a gap, but keeping the panel exactly the same shows that this is all happening simultanrously. The overlapping thing, in my opinion of course, should be for in instances where there's lots of action happening, and we're seeing things from different angles, etc. Like it's our *comicbook* way of showing slow-mo or fast effects. If that makes any sense. :)

Good luck with Diamond!

-John

[Phil Clark]

Maybe it would help the panel 1 to panel 2 transition if I duplicated the action (which I had to remove to avoid the spoiler) that is happening in panel one in the background of panel 2 only stepped forward a second or so. Then there would be absolutely no doubt that it was the same moment in time. What do you think?

[muthmaniac]

Actually, yeah, since we're not seeing the whole image, I guess everything might be solved just by seeing what's there...So, I guess that's all up for you to decide. :)

[Phil Clark]

Ok, I have updated the page and finished the next page. Both pages have some spoiler information that I have censored, out of respect for the writer of the story. How do the updates look?

http://www.images-eye.com/asylum2pg2pencils72dpipublic.jpg

http://www.images-eye.com/asylum2pg3pencils72dpipublic.jpg

Oh, and that is a tape recorder in the final panel of page 3.

[TheFightingFoetus]

Put arrows on the buttons of the tape recorder, so it's more clear.

[Spidey]

Its a tape recorder? I thought it was some wierd looking gun. Its hard to crit, the censors are too distracting. ;)

[Phil Clark]

Originally posted by TheFightingFoetus
Put arrows on the buttons of the tape recorder, so it's more clear.

Good idea.