View Full Version : pages from Crossgen script
07-28-2003, 10:39 AM
now taking hits..:)
07-28-2003, 11:02 AM
Honestly... I can't figure out what's going on.
There's a steeple, then a giant woman statue.
The next panel, panel 3 I get, it's the guy on the steps. But panel 4 and 5 make no sense.
You haven't done anything to explain the spatial relationships between people and their settings. I have zero guess as to what the guy is doing in panel 4 and who is behind him. It's also not at all clear whose face is in panel 5 and where they are.
It just doesn't make sense. I think you might want to rethink the shots and when you have an establishing shot, show where everything is in relation to everything else.
I'd also work on backgrounds (panel 4 looks really bland with that single line cutting across) and on shading. The light source on the rocks in panel 2 is completely different from the lady statue.
Errmm I'm gonna guess ok??
The guy behind him says something, the dude responds at first shocked, then turns around and yells at him followed by a concentrated look...
Really dude it's one page out of story...
I think Chris Piers is right about the lightsource tho, it's inconsistant..
Pan4 could have a bit more recognizable bg as well...
Very curious to where this is going geof, gotta let me know what they thought of it when you show it to em...
07-28-2003, 12:52 PM
Lemme see if I can help you out Chris...The action is taking place inside the temple that you see in the first panel..The script says specifically he is pleading to some type of female statue..The toadie is not supposed to be seen until panel 5 and he angers the individual when he does...I completely agree about the light source...And I am wondering if I was drunk or something when I was spotting the blacks..Thanx though..
DJK wassup dude..Trying to improve like you've done here in the last few weeks...I still need tons of work..:(
07-28-2003, 01:01 PM
You might get more/better crits for this in the sequential section.
07-28-2003, 01:28 PM
Well, I appreciate you taking the time to explain it, Propsdue and this isn't to be mean to you but the art should speak for itself. If you need to explain, then it's not *quite* there.
If the temple in panel 2 is inside the mountain of statue 1, the reader needs something to indicate that. For instance, you show the entrance in panel 1 and then zoom in more in panel 2. And you'd need to have textured the ceiling. I assumed they were outside.
Even if someone pops up in panel 4, you need to show where he is in the environment and how far apart he is from the first person you introduced. I'm sure it makes sense in your head right now but it doesn't to the reader.
And who is the person in panel 5? There are no visual clues to identify the speaker as one or the other of the two guys from the previous panel and there's no way to know what he's looking at. The other person? The statue? Something else?
07-28-2003, 02:10 PM
These look great Propsdue! I especially like the pin-up.
Just a couple of crits.
In panel 2 I would have the characters shadow in front of him maybe even leaking onto the statue.
Panel 3 - I don't like the characters right hand in this position. Maybe bring it more into the panel and make it larger.
Panel 4 - The figure in the background looks, I don't know, too stiff and unfinished. Maybe put a shadow under the chin and arm.
Panel 5 - Maybe tilt the characters head down a little for better continuity with the previous panel.
Overall looks good. I have no problem with the strorytelling.
Good luck though getting a response from Cross Gen. I sent in my samples back in April and never got a response. Not even a form letter. I heard a rumour that they owe money to freelancers.
07-28-2003, 02:49 PM
I don't want to be super negative and anal about this, but you really need to find out how to do sequential art if you want to go into the business. As you can see half the ppl don't even know what you are trying to show in the sequentials. I suggest you pick up the Panel Discussions book, give it a read, maybe it'll help you, maybe not.
I also think in a way that you might need to work a little on expression as well, since some expressions you have used previously and now are somewhat confusing.
Yeah I guess I am a jerk, but I am the jerk that can only make you better.
And if your gonna be buyin books, be sure to check out Will Eisner's books on sequential art 2, forgot their names but they re pretty good..
Reminds me that I still have to read one of em actually...
Don't ever give up bro ;)
And go check out the colors I smacked on my last picture...
07-30-2003, 12:47 PM
read this gang and then give me another CC if you have the time to spare..
07-30-2003, 02:26 PM
Ah, yeah you didn't follow the script too closely which is essential.
Also, even if the dialogue had been added, the page is still confusing. I'm only saying this because you keep defending your work.
See, in panel one it asks you to show a certain temple. And in panel two, it's more of that same temple. Taking this into account, panel one should be much larger, and be the establishing shot with page two being an obvious closer shot of the establishing scene.
Also, it has a new character enter timidly. Well, you just have him pop up out of nowhere and it's impossible to tell who he is or what his emotional state is. Stick with the script and follow the basics of storytelling and you'll be in great shape.
You should definitely keep up with making sequential pages. It's the best way to improve. And then just try to implement advice you get on anatomy, lighting and storytelling. Good luck. Be patient.
07-31-2003, 10:16 AM
...........Thanx loads Chris.:rolleyes:
07-31-2003, 10:37 AM
Damnit, I'm trying to help you and you are taking it as jabs or something. If you just want someone to pat you on the back, go hit up a family member.
07-31-2003, 01:22 PM
chris, i think you have some valid points but some ur just way off. he pretty much did everything the script said, i don't know what ur talking about when u said he didn't follow the script. i think part of the problem is the script tho, because there's not much story to tell.
i did a coupla thumbs to help you out propsdue. just by adding the back of the head of the guy in the 4th panel to the 2nd panel helps the whole page read a lot easier.
07-31-2003, 05:07 PM
Hey Scribbs I appreciate the thumbz I guess there were quite a few options I could have used..I'll utilize that in the future.
Mr. Piers.....No jabs taken just not entirely sure what you want...You said my page made absolutely no sense...I posted the script..Now the script is cool and my drawing doesnt follow it..I honestly understand a lot of the issues..My light source is off, facial expressions shakey, and backgrounds bland..Thats all given..but if theres dialog in the first panel its almost a given that the next scenes action takes place inside the temple since theres no one in the first panel...
Also you made mention my establishing shot(1st panel)should have been the larger panel...why?..The establishing shot merely tells you where the action is..If I have the choice to supersize the temple or another panel with a huge statue and a small person I'll take the latter each time....Why...The temple panel supplies no action nor any people so why lock up a major portion of your page with it..Wouldnt that make the overall page a bit bland to go along with the backgrounds?..
also....Whether I put the toadie in the foreground with the lizard guy in the back, or having him tap him on the shoulder..The little guy occupies only 1 panel on the page..He's not peeking from behind a corner, he's not sneaking up from behind, he simply appears..Obviously intended to catch not only the character by suprise but maybe the reader as well....The script didnt specify how panels had to be laid out...Thats usually up to the artist...I thanks you for the crits, seriously, but I can only correct problems, not preferences....Oh yea..I'm an orphan, no family members to hit up:p
07-31-2003, 05:10 PM
I think you stuck to the script just fine. I think where some of the problem lies is that the script is choppy. It moves to quickly. Esp. the panel where the guy enters timidly. It seems like that should be broken up a bit more. Just my opinion, and I'm definatly no expert.
As far as anatomy goes, I think you do a pretty nice job. Certainly better than me.
I'm not saying that I don't think the page couldn't have been executed better, I'm sure it could have and you would probably agree with me. What I am saying is , I think you followed the script very close to how it was written. My only advice is that next time perhaps make a few adjustments with the pacing. Or is that the ultimate sin in the comic book medium? :eek:
Keep at it.
07-31-2003, 05:34 PM
Piers gave a tough critique, which is what a lot of artists around here need.
Sadly though, some of his information was totally wrong.
Panel 1 - Nice establishing shot. The panel is large enough.
Panel 2 - This is where a lot of problems arise.
a) I had to look at this several times AND read the script before I realized that the main character was at the base of a statue pleading to it. The combination of it's light source being opposite the rest of the area and your placement of the character makes it seem that the statue is actually in the foreground. (check scribbles' thumbnails, it looks like he has fixed it for you).
b) The character isn't showing enough emotion. The script calls for him to be kneeling. This is his god. He should be on one knee, not standing casually like you have him here.
Panel 3 - I think you did a pretty good job with the emotion in this panel, although the cropping on the right is a little strange.
Panel 4 - If you look at the dialogue for this panel, it looks a lot like the word balloons will have to cover up the art. You did a pretty nice job of having him whip around angrily. There are many other ways to do this panel more effectively if you just think about it for a few minutes.
Panel 5 - Piers mentioned that he couldn't tell who it was in panel 5. I had no problem with the overall consistency in your faces. I knew right away from seeing his face in the previous 2 panels, who he was. I would not have used a full face shot for this panel however. The script had most of the emotion in his eyes, so you could have gotten away with a smaller panel focusing on them. That would have allowed you to enlarge the previous panel to fit the dialogue in.
*You should learn from your light source mistakes. Don't shade the blacks in completely, just put a few little x's. Editors and submissions editors would look at this and say, "well, you messed up on panel x, maybe you should have been working on that panel more instead of doing the pretty shading on this page."
It also makes it easier to go back and change the source if you didn't get it right the first time.
**When posting your work for critique, it's best to just read the replies, think about them for a couple of days, and then decide what information was irrelevant.
07-31-2003, 07:51 PM
Hey Iuse and bundlestitch thanks for your CC guys its greatly appreciated...Scribs thumbs show that I need to maybe do more than one layout to see which works best..I'll utilize all above mentioned comments..Thanx:D
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