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View Full Version : yet another inking question



ecstaticboy
07-23-2003, 09:52 PM
so tonight i sat down brush in hand ready to work on some ink samples to send to some interested parties. when the brush reached the page i realized i had no line art to work with! now, i am told that the best ink samples shows your inks over another artists pencils. so where can i find some hi-res pencil only page scans????????????


any help would be fantastic

SenorSwanky
07-23-2003, 10:36 PM
http://www.stormpages.com/krivo321/artists.htm

Ian Miller
07-23-2003, 10:49 PM
If you want pencils by well-established comic artists, go to Google images. For example, if you'd want pencils pics from Jack Kirby, you'd type in "Jack Kirby Pencils." Or, if you don't, then I don't know where you can go.

SenorSwanky
07-23-2003, 10:53 PM
That won't work in most cases because penciled art, and art in general, is usually posted at a very low res, no more than 100 dpi and only about 500 pixels wide. For inking, you need over 1000 pixels wide at least 300 dpi, which you can save and then enlarge in Photoshop. The site I posted has a lot of good samples at 300 dpi, half-size.

ALLGOLD
07-25-2003, 01:55 PM
I got twenty 11" x 17" photocopies of pencils on the Larry Dempsey Inking survey site. They were like $.40 a piece. He accepts PAYPAL, and I got those pages in like two or three days, I highly recommend. I just go to the art store, pick up some nice bristol, got to kinkos print it in blue line for a buck a peice and I'm set! I got some Silvestri, Adams, Sears, Keown, Lee, Bachalo--they have some good stuff on the site. The only thing that sucks, that storm page is never updated!!:mad:

ecstaticboy
07-25-2003, 02:32 PM
hey ALLGOLD, wanna hook a brother up with a link????

ALLGOLD
07-25-2003, 02:43 PM
Here ya go www.larrydempsey.com go to the inking survey page, and click on pencilled pages.

dillopod
07-29-2003, 05:04 PM
Hey Allgold, I did the same thing but ran into a snag. I got some pages from Larry Dempsey, took them to Kinko's and printed them out in cyan as light as the printer would print but when I try to ink them, the ink (Higgins Black Magic) doesn't cover the copier ink. Especially in large black areas. It just seperates like oil and water. I've many people about this but haven't really found a good solution. Do you have this problem too? Larry recommended inking on vellum over the penciled page but I tried this and have a hard time getting all of the details. If you have a solution to this, please let me know.

SenorSwanky
07-29-2003, 05:58 PM
There are 2 solutions better than either of the ones you tried, but they require expensive technology:
1.) Use a lightbox. Tape the photocopy to the back of a sheet of bristol, turn on the lightbox, and then proceed.
The best option, however, is:
2.) Scan the photocopies into your computer, convert them into bluelines, and then print them out with a large-format inkjet printer. I use the HP DeskJet 1120c (there is a better, newer version called the 1220c at stores like Staples and OfficeMax). Epson makes the best printers of this type, but they're more expensive than the HPs.

dillopod
07-29-2003, 06:07 PM
Thanks! Will those printers you mentioned print on bristol board?

SenorSwanky
07-29-2003, 06:54 PM
Yeah. They take up to 13 x 19 inches, and 2-ply bristol does go through the manual feed in the back. Not sure about 3-ply.

ALLGOLD
07-29-2003, 07:49 PM
Hey Dillo,
They print them out for me behind the counter. I'm not sure what kind of copier it is, all I know is they print it out in #15 blue on a two peice copy machine. There's a pad with a pen thing hooked up to it, to change all of the options and whatnot, then the actual machine itself. I've been to a few diff. Kinko's and this #15 blue thing always seems to be the key. They can print them out on nice two-ply bristol-I use the Srathmore 500 series 20"30" 2 ply "hot"sheets, not the pads. I don't have any problems whatsoever with the ink not covering the blue, I've inked many a peice and most of my submissions using this method. I used to use vellum, but I don't like how it has a tendency to buckle, and when you mount it back on a blanck peice of board, some part of it always sticks up.(at least when I did it) I suggest trying out kinko's again, buying a large format printer and replacement cartridges is far more expensive than paying a buck a peice for good copies. BTW, which copies did you get from the site?

SenorSwanky
07-29-2003, 08:04 PM
buying a large format printer and replacement cartridges is far more expensive than paying a buck a peice for good copies Not in the long run. You can get a good 1120c for $200 including shipping. You have to factor in the cost of gas to get to Kinko's as well as the price for the actual copies, plus tax. If you get a job inking, you'll probably be using this method at some point, and if you do it regularly, you'll end up paying more time and money to go to Kinko's than if you had bought a printer.
Plus, my Kinko's doesn't have the technology to print onto sheets as large as 11 x 17 or as thick as bristol. At least, that's what they've told me several times when I've tried.

ALLGOLD
07-29-2003, 10:53 PM
At a recent block party we had, my dad asked the neighboorhood computer guy and he said for what I was doing at the time,(four or five copies a week) I was better off just getting it printed at Kinko's. Kinkos is app. 10 min from my house, and it's not really all that busy during the times I go, so it's not really that much of a time waster. I've bid on a few of the large format Epson printers, but always get sniped at the end. If I was to end up getting professional work, I WOULD end up going that route and get the printer. I probably will end up going that route anyway soon.
How common is it now for the inker to just get a scan of the pencils and print out in blue line? I mean, I guess that would save at least a couple of days ship time, and he could scan 'em over as soon as he was done with them, which could save crucial deadline time waiting for the fed-ex guy. (especially since the inker is responsible for picking up the slack most of the time) In the case of the return of original art, who gets what? The penciler keeps the pencils, inker gets the inks? They split? I would think that the ink art would end up being worth more on the original art end, being that it is the more final and finished of the two. Any thoughts?

SenorSwanky
07-29-2003, 11:16 PM
I'm not sure about how original art rights goes with bluelined art, or which (pencils or inks) is generally worth more.
But I do know that the blueline method is becoming more and more common, particularly for Image books, DWP, and online strips. Marvel, DC, and CG (being mostly in-house) still do it almost exclusively the traditional way, but certain books may be done with blueline by arrangement with the editor. I know James Pascoe inked Empire over Barry Kitson this way 3 or 4 years ago, so it's been around awhile. Steve Bird, an inker, explained the process to Barry, who then took credit for inventing it. Who knows who the actual first person to come up with the process is? (rhetorical question, obviously)

Robin Riggs
07-30-2003, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by ALLGOLD
How common is it now for the inker to just get a scan of the pencils and print out in blue line? I mean, I guess that would save at least a couple of days ship time, and he could scan 'em over as soon as he was done with them, which could save crucial deadline time waiting for the fed-ex guy. (especially since the inker is responsible for picking up the slack most of the time) In the case of the return of original art, who gets what? The penciler keeps the pencils, inker gets the inks? They split? I would think that the ink art would end up being worth more on the original art end, being that it is the more final and finished of the two. Any thoughts?

It's becoming more common but there are still only a handfull of people working that way. A lot of the inkers who have worked on bluelines don't care for it compared with working on real pencils.

The art split has just been straightened out with Marvel, who seem to use bluelines a lot more than DC, and it's the obvious solution. Pencillers keep their pencils and inkers keep their inks. It's really no different than the way it worked when pages were lightboxed or when I worked over blue photocopies back at Marvel UK. As to which is more desirable/valuable that's entirely up to the art collectors to decide. A lot of them seem to see the pencils as the true artist's vision before some hack daubs ink over them obscuring much of their greatness. Time will tell.

SenorSwanky
07-30-2003, 04:52 PM
Yeah, well DC probably still does it mostly the old way because a lot of their books are hand-lettered still (which I actually prefer). I wish Marvel would hire John Workman or Bill Oakley to do more of their books. I also wish Joe Rosen was still around. Those 3 guys do better lettering than any Comicraft typist, IMHO.

Robin Riggs
07-30-2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by SenorSwanky
Yeah, well DC probably still does it mostly the old way because a lot of their books are hand-lettered still

Not anymore I'm afraid. They're developing an in house computer lettering department with Ken Lopez as lettering art director.

ecstaticboy
07-30-2003, 09:55 PM
i just went to kinkos to print three pages 11x17 on cardstock and wtf! i had to pay 40 bucks or so for the lot. i hate kinkos.

when i asked'em about printing it on 2-ply bristol they looked at me like i was talking chinese.

i need to buy a good printer that takes comic paper, any one know of one?

SenorSwanky
07-30-2003, 10:16 PM
They're developing an in house computer lettering department with Ken Lopez as lettering art director. Man, that sucks, though I'm interested to see what it'll look like. I don't like Marvel's non-caps lettering, so it'll probably at least be better than that and more like hand lettering. It's rare that I like computer lettering. The only exception I can think of is Comicraft's lettering on Long Halloween and other Tim Sale projects. They use a good, simple font for him.

Ecstatic, yeah, Kinko's is nuts. Look up the HP 1120c or 1220c. Epson has better printers, but I don't know their model numbers.

dillopod
07-31-2003, 11:39 AM
Thanks for all of the advice. I think I'm going to invest in a printer. Kinko's has been a pain in the butt for me. The one here charges $2.00 for 11x17 copies and if I want to print pages from a disk or cd I have to use their computer which charges you for the amount of time you spend on it and it adds up fast. Oh, Allgold, I got a bunch of pages from Larry. About 20 or so. They all look good but some of them do have the word balloons already on them and somehave some penciler mistakes that would be erased by the inker if it were the real thing. I don't have a scanner though so if I get a printer I'm going to have to mainly use pages that I find on the net. Unless I want to go to Kinko's and have them scan the pages! AAAGGGGHHHHH!

SenorSwanky
07-31-2003, 12:10 PM
some penciler mistakes that would be erased by the inker if it were the real thing What do you mean by that?

I've also gotten 41 pages from Larry (21 of which will arrive later this week), and they're excellent. The only thing that would make the purchase of them better is if he had scans posted of each page.

ALLGOLD
07-31-2003, 04:07 PM
Yeah, Swanky, that would be cool if he had scans of the pages. I bought some for submissions, and some of them were really crappy (Kubert Hulk) because I couldn't print them on bristol because they were "dirty" copies. They had smudges all over them. Just curious, what pages did you end up getting?

SenorSwanky
07-31-2003, 04:32 PM
If you have PS, you can probably dodge the scans to get rid of that smudginess. I got a Kubert Hulk as well, and mine was a dirty copy as well. That's Marvel's fault, though, not Larry's.

inklad
08-02-2003, 01:45 PM
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SenorSwanky
08-02-2003, 01:48 PM
Whoa, it's cool, Larry. This is Dustin Ingalls. I love your site. In fact, you've got the best site for inkers on the Internet. I understand that you have limited resources, and you're just hosting your site as a free service for anyone who wants it. That was my only comment (not gripe) that detracts from making it a perfect site.

inklad
08-02-2003, 03:03 PM
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inklad
08-02-2003, 03:33 PM
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ALLGOLD
08-03-2003, 05:27 PM
Yeah, inklad, I want my $.40 refund!:rolleyes: I've gotten a few "dirty" copies from Marvels submission dept. myself. You have a great site there--lot's of info! I understand about not being able to include scans of the pages, it's not really that big of a deal. I've got most of the comics that I bought copies for, it just takes a while to find them. The last time I bought copies from you, I tried to email you back some positive feedback but my mail was returned to me three times.

inklad
08-04-2003, 01:38 AM
Post deleted.