View Full Version : Ghost seq. page 1
06-16-2003, 10:13 AM
I did a page for the last Critical Mass project but did I feel a poor job.So I redrew the page hopefully I better this time around.The page below is still in the rough drawing stages so I can make changes before I light box it onto some bristol board.Well what you guys think? :)
06-16-2003, 11:26 AM
Well, Brian, this is certainly a different approach, but I'm not sure it's as much an improvement over the original as it is just a variation. I might actually prefer the layout of the previous version, in that it helped me get a feel for the location a bit better.
In this version, I see some things that are bringing it down:
Panel 1 - There are some pretty severe anatomical issues with the bum, his left arm in particular. Check some reference to see how the upper and lower arms connect, and watch your proportions. This arm is a little too long
Panel 2 - Two points with this one - first, you've got the guy walking off to the left of the page, which makes my eye want to follow him out to the left. A better practice would be to setup the action so that he was walking to the right, into the page, which would lead our eyes directly into the next panel. Too, when you move action right to left on a comic page, you tend to slow the action down. Which is unfortunate in terms of the next point:
I checked the script and it calls for the guy to be running. I don't think your panel two gives us much reason to think the guy is afraid or even moderately concerned about what's going on, you know? He's just casually taking a stroll off the sidewalk, etc.
Panel 3 - This one is confusing to me because I'm not sure whether the guy is reacting to something in front of him, or if he's turned, or what. I think my confusion comes from the presence of the newspaper box in all three panels - it seems to shift around, and I'm never quite sure where he is in relation to it.
Panel 4 - This one is an improvement over the first attempt, especially considering you spent a lot more effort on the Jeep. But, as with the previous example, the entire panel is filled with the Jeep, and we don't have any indication of where the jeep is in relation to the bum. For all we readers know, we could have just cut to another scene, etc.
I want to be clear that you deserve all kinds of points for working out this page not once, but twice and I love that you're getting better. I just think you're to the point now where you need to fine tune some things to get a better page.
In general, I recommend some more anatomy work - particularly with hands and proportions, and some practice with drapery and texture.
In terms of this page in particular, I think there are several things you can do to improve it from here. First, you could probably pan the camera out considerably in Panel 1. It's meant to be an establishing shot, and the script contains a lot of details about the location, so it'd be a good idea to work them in. In my opinion, having a medium shot of the bum in this panel is less important than the setting and the action. You can pan this out to a long shot, give us some more background detail and still show us the bum running.
In Panel 2, give us the indication that this guy is really hauling tail away from something. This is one of those areas where you need to commit to an action. We need to see some really dynamic running here. Maybe he's splashing through a puddle? Or kicking up some dust or some trash? You've only got his feet in this panel, so you need to do what you can to reinforce the notion that he's running scared.
Panel 3 and 4 are somewhat of a problem, because it's difficult to tell which should be the most prominent on the page. I'm inclined to think this way - since Panel 3 contains the most striking visual element, it should get the most visual weight. So let's play this panel up considerably. Let's see a little more of the bum, and let's make clear that he's been surprised by the lights. Also, consider making the lights more of an element in this panel. Some harsh lighting effects will really drive the point home that the guy is basically a deer in the headlights.
Panel four really needs some indication that this Jeep exists in the same location and at the same time as this bum. Consider showing some of the bum in the foreground, as the Jeep races towards him? It doesn't have to be much, just a hand, or part of his leg, etc. in the right hand side of the panel?
These sorts of things are the problems I struggle with on every single page I work on. So I know how frustrating it can be to try to rework pages, and you have my sympathies. I can assure you it's much easier to be me and sit here and nitpick this artwork than it is to actually sit down and draw the page, so don't lose heart. You're doing good work, and as I said before, I think you're only getting better.
06-16-2003, 03:28 PM
You know, I've been thinking about this script for a while, and the more I think about it, the more I'm coming around to thinking the final panel should be the biggest panel. Too, though, I'm wondering if, according to the script, the camera angle should be "inside" the jeep looking out? Would that help tie the page together, do you think? Approaching it that way would let you show the jeep and its occupants AND the bum and the scenery ... but it'd be a tricky scene to pull off.
06-17-2003, 07:58 AM
I agree with your thoughts on the panels.That is why I drew them on cheap paper this time around so I can erase or just redraw the panel to fix them.:D
For panel one I'm going to go the orginal set up that I used in my first try with this page..Your right this is the the main establishing shot to set up the next few scenes.I will try to improve the perspective this time around though.
Panel 2 I keep forgeting he is running in this scene.That twice I over looked that.I'll have him in a better panel running this time.
Panel 3 and 4 I am going to figure out a way to tie them into the same action.I liked you idea of drawing panel 4 from inside the car with boys approaching the bum.I think that is the best way to tie 3-4 completly.Or the on panel 4 showing a head shot of the bum or his hand in the scene.I like the idea of showing the inside of the car better thought.Panel 4 will be the hardest to pull off but I will give it my best shot and see what happens.
06-20-2003, 09:11 AM
Here is the update.I wasn't sure which would work better so I tried panel 4 drawn from outside the car and one from inside the car.Which you think looks better?
06-20-2003, 10:45 AM
Hey Vegeta, this is looking good! I think that the longer shot for panel 1 definitely works better than the closer shot that you had done for your first rework. Also, panel 2 with the bum running looks great! It even looks like he's stumbling a little from having had to run too long. The only problem I see is with panel 3. The angle that you have the bum's arm at, it's hard to tell which side of his body it's coming off of (although, by the hand that is outstretched we know which arm it is supposed to be). Other than that, I'm partial to the panel 4 as viewed from outside the car. The bum in that one has got a nice sense of surprise and looseness to his pose. The other one is good also (the detail of the dash and inside of the jeep is great), but I don't think it has the same impact as the other.
All in all, I really think that this page is looking sharp. Can't wait to see your page 2 in two weeks over at Critical Mass!
06-21-2003, 07:33 AM
I agree the panel 4 from outside the jeep looks a lot more fluid and shows all the key scene details.I had trouble drawing the one from inside the jeep and it kind of shows in spots.
I look forward to seeing your page 2 in two weeks too Sam. ;)
06-24-2003, 12:50 PM
The problem with the fourth panel on each of these pages is still one of context, IMO. I know you're going for the big "surprise" shot, but the use of the speed lines really doesn't add much to the panels, and actually obscures what could be some important info, such as the backgrounds, which would give us a clearer indication of where this happens.
The reason I think it's important to have some degree of background in this panel is this - even though the script calls for the Jeep to appear virtually out of nowhere, it's still important for us to know where it appears. We have to know where it appears in relation to the bum, not that it just appears, you know?
Both of these refurbished panels work better in that they allow us to see that the car is bearing down on the bum. That's great, and it's possibly all you could ask for, but I think a little indication of the location can't do anything but help the narrative, so maybe think of a way to put some background elements in (or maybe even a foreground element, such as a newspaper box that appears earlier in the page, etc.)
A couple of nitpicks, just 'cause I love ya:
Watch the cityscape. The street you've drawn is an improvement over the closer shot you initially used, but this street just seems to go on forever, with no cross streets. If there are no cross streets, one would have to wonder how the Jeep would "sneak up" on the bum, you know?
Take care with the proportions and perspective! In the version of the fourth panel that's viewed from inside the Jeep, the bum's hands are WAY too large, even with forced perspective (they're even larger than the hands on the guy holding the camera, who's at least half a car length closer to us!
In the version viewed from outside the truck, the Jeep is waaaaay too big compared with the bum. Part of the problem is proportion - the bum should just be bigger comparatively at this angle. Another part of the problem is perspective - he's on a somewhat lower plane than the Jeep. At the angle you've drawn the Jeep, the bum's waste should be right at about the same level as the hood. The result of both of these makes it look like the bum has already been partially run over, which I don't think the script has called for just yet (I think it's trying to build the suspense more than show the guy get killed).
Final nitpick - I'm not sure I'm convinced about the fingers in panel three overlapping panel one. That tends to draw my eye directly from panel one to panel three, which tends to thwart panel two entirely. Also, you've still got the guy in panel two running away from panel three, which tends to slow down the action (and break the flow of the page). Maybe think about turning him so he's running left to right?
06-24-2003, 04:30 PM
I am going print your notes and work with the page some more.Using your notes most of it can be fixed except panel three which I will redraw him running left to right.On panel four your right ....until now I hadn't even thought to look again at page 2.I have the bum to close to the Jeep right now.:o Redrawing the scene won't be so bad becuase I needed to redraw it anyway because of the perpspective flaws.
Thanks for your help.I get this right yet. :)
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