Brush question

[Cuddly]

I've been checking out the prices of the Winsor & Newton Series 7 Kolinsky sable brushes and they are NOT cheap. Before I invest any money in those, I have a couple of questions:

1) dickblick.com has an offer on a 5-brush set of sizes going from 0-4. When inking, would I ever need all these sizes? Money is, as ever, an issue. So I wouldn't want to get a brush I won't use. Besides, I'm new to inking with a brush at all. I still want to get the sable brushes. Just wondering which ones I'll need to get.

2) If I want to use the brushes for watercolor as well as inking, should I get a different brush for each activity? Or can the same brush be used for both if I clean it properly?

3) Are these brushes a relatively long-term investment? Or am I going to have to buy a replacement brush after a while? And how long is a while (assuming infrequent to moderately frequent use)?

[Caimano]

Hi Cuddly,

I'm going to answer to your questions, but keep in mind I'm not a pro inker, maybe Robin, Kris, Kronos, Methane etc..could help you in a better way.

However I try:

I use #1 for thin line and # 2 for the other ones...I use markers for big black areas and rapido for very small details (eyes etc...)

I use the same brushes for both ink and watercolours, but for watercolours I use some additional numbers: #4 and a very big one for background and big areas (You can't use markers here:D )

I always wash my brushes with hot water and soap when I finished to use them

I don't replace them often, but my inked board in a year are very few... maybe Robin change a bush a week:p

[Baloodoo Bill]

You don't need a full set. I find I get a much finer line with a #5 than I ever did with a #0, probably because of the length of the bristles. However a #5 is a LOT of brush to handle. I'd recommend you start with a #2 or #3.

If you do use your ink brush with watercolors, you have to keep it REAL clean. Never put a dry brush into your ink bottle, wet the brush first with clean water, roll or blot out the excess. Fill your ink bottle to 1/2 the depth of your bristles or less. NEVER allow the ink to touch the ferrule (the metal band) wash IMMEDIATELY with soap and water if it happens. Ink in the ferrule, well it's just bad. Keep a clean jar of water at your side and rinse your brush thoroughly once for every 3-4 times you go to the inkwell. Never allow your brush to dry unless it's been washed with soap and water first. After washing, leave a very diluted solution of soapy water in the brush and roll it against a soft towel till it comes to a point and store upright. Next time you use it, let it soak in fresh clean water a few seconds and gently roll it against the side of the water jar till the bristles soften, then go back to work.

Sounds like a lot of work but, once ink dries on your brush, or in your ferrule, it's there forever and, at $20-$30 (or in my case $50) a pop, you want to take care of it.

[kj23]

Wow, first post here in a while i think.
Thanks for remembering me Caimano, i've been out of the loop for a while.

1, I originally started with a #3 i think then moved to a #2 which i prefer, this is for everything apart from filling in blacks. You only really need one size i think.

2, You could probably use a brush for both but i'd get 2 different ones if i were you.

3, if treated well a brush should last a while, i've had the one i use now a long time and just ordered a few new ones this week.

Hope that helps some. By the way, Cuddly, did i meet you in Bristol?

Kris.

[Robin Riggs]

Originally posted by Cuddly
1) You'd probably never use them all when working but it's not a bad idea when you're starting out. If you have all those sizes you can try them and see which you're most comfortable with. The most common size for inking seems to be a #2. I use a #1 and a #4.

2) Never use an inking brush for watercolours. You'll never be able to clean all of the black out properly and it'll just contaminate your colous making them look muddy. You really need separate brushes for black, white and colour if you're serious about it.

3) Yes they should last you a long time if you take reasonable care. Wash the bristles carefully with soap and water at the end of a session and always roll the brush to a point before leaving it to dry. My main brush seems to last about 3-4 years these days and that's doing 20-40 pages a month.

[Dash Martin]

Yeah...keep inking brushes and watercolor brushes seperate. Otherwise you'll get some screwy watercolors. I usually keep a #1 around just for corrections with the Pro white. Any bit of black in there and you'll be laying down some gray corrections. As for brush sizes...I use a 1 and a 3. They seem to do the job. Also, you get what you pay for. You want a brush to last you a few years, buy the expensive one. You can buy a cheap 5 dollar brush, but it'll only give you 3-6 months before you want to stab your eyes out with it. As far as brands go...I've used Raphael, Scharff, and W&N. They're all pretty good, but the Scharff #3 is quickly becoming my fav.

[Cuddly]

Hi all, thanks for the great input!

Caimano - thanks for the info! Hey, how's that military comic of yours coming along? It's been a while since you've posted updates to the sequentials board.

Baloodoo Bill - thanks muchly for all that valuable advice. That's a lot of information that will be very useful once I get started with brushes and ink.

kj23 - thanks, Kris! Urm I don't know - DID I meet you in Bristol? If you met a pudgy Malaysian guy, about 5'11", wearing glasses and spending waaaaaay too much time standing in line for Jim Lee, then yes! We could very well have met! PM me!! And if not, hey PM me anyway. Would be great to reminisce about the Bristol con. :)

Robin - words of wisdom as always. Many thanks for the information! I hadn't considered the extra brush for the white ink.

Methane - thanks for the insight into the brush for corrections. You brought up an interesting point about the brands. Is W&N more expensive than the other brands? If so, is the extra expense warranted? I've been looking at the W&N brushes because that's what I've read so many inkers recommending. Is it the best set to get started with?

[Caimano]

Originally posted by Cuddly
Hi all, thanks for the great input!

Caimano - thanks for the info! Hey, how's that military comic of yours coming along? It's been a while since you've posted updates to the sequentials board.



I already drew 17 boards of it !!! I stop to post in storytelling section because I had and have some problem with my web site, but I'm going to do it. I still have to draw 9 boards and I finished the book...I'm really drawing a lot during my spare time from work and family but I'm in delay with the timeline.

[SenorSwanky]

Actually, the W&Ns are neither least nor most expensive. The Raphaels are slightly cheaper, by maybe a dollar or two. But you can't find them in local stores, at least I can't and most other inkers I've talked to can't. Go to dickblick.com, only $5 shipping. The Scharffs are like 6 dollars more than the W&Ns, and can only be ordered at artbrush.com. For a size 3, you'll spend about $23 plus 8 or 9 for shipping.

[Baloodoo Bill]

Originally posted by SenorSwanky
The Scharffs are like 6 dollars more than the W&Ns, and can only be ordered at artbrush.com. For a size 3, you'll spend about $23 plus 8 or 9 for shipping.

I can't imagine buying a brush without testing it first (but, I'm surrounded by art supply stores.) What sort of guarantee/return policy do they come with?

[SenorSwanky]

I've never bought from Scharff, but check their website. I got 2 Scharffs and a nearly identical Raphael 8408, each in size 3 and slightly used, for $20 from another inker.

[Dash Martin]

I'd take a Scharff or Raphael over a W&N any day. I'll use a W&N if that's all I have...but if I have a choice...

[Cuddly]

Hi all,

there's some really valuable information in this thread. Many thanks to all for the great advice.

I finally managed to get to an art shop here that stocks W&N Series 7 brushes and invested in a #0 brush (I figure I'll get a #4 next month when pay comes in :( ). It cost a lot (more than I've ever paid for a brush) but I hope it'll be worth it.

I also bought some Holbein Special Black ink and some Holbein White ink. Not sure if any of you have used this brand before.

So anyways, I was looking through everyone's advice again and I was just thinking about how important it seems to be to keep the ink out of the ferrule. But would capillary action not draw the ink up into the ferrule anyway?

Also, I was looking through this "How To Draw Manga" book in the bookstore the other day and there was a photo showing how to clean a brush after inking. The picture showed the person rubbing the bristles into a bar of soap to clean them. Is this how it's done? Seems a bit rough on the bristles to me, even if it was done gently.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts.

[Baloodoo Bill]

Keeping ink out of the ferrule is no joking matter. Any ink that gets in will build up over time and cause bristles to separate, weaken and crack, As small as it is, a #0 needs to be rinsed often.

I clean mine with a bar of regular hand soap and then clean out the bar soap with "The Masters Brush Cleaner and Preservative" leaving a mild solution in the bristles which are then rolled to a point.

Don't "rub," all you need do is gently brush or roll the bristles. Soap is a catalyst. It's purpose is to mix with water. Once you build up some lather, rinse and repeat till the lather is clean. Let the water do the work rather than scrubbing. Think of it as an act of meditation and not as a race.

If you need extra "scrubbing" power, fold your hand. The crease between the palm and the pads below the fingers makes a nice cleaning trough. Pull and roll the soapy brush through the crease.

[InkerGuyThippy]

subtract 40% off the prices you see on the scharff's at Artbrush.com

I currently use a 2 and a 3. The 2 seems bigger than a W & N 2.

[SenorSwanky]

Are they discounting them 40% at Artbrush?

I'm breaking in my Raphael 8404 and Scharff, each #3s. They take awhile to get used to and to really get pliable and sharp enough to work well.