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martin_topsecret
05-30-2003, 09:46 AM
In the Marvel Epic technical submissions guide
they list art proportions as...

 Size: 11 x 17 inches
 Bleed: 10.5 x 15.75 inches
 Trim: 9.9375 x 15.2805 inches
 Copy safe: 9 x 14.0625 inches


Can someone explain to me the bottom line of what this means...

draw to the bleed?

draw to the trim?

is copy safe the space used like in the pages of Watchmen and John Byrnes more conservative stuff?

Dash Martin
05-30-2003, 12:26 PM
I believe that's where the letters have to stay inside.

martin_topsecret
06-01-2003, 10:26 AM
I am sooo disappointed from you guys.

I cannot spare a minute from my social life and from my military ife to explore these questions.....

Please I want more from you draft dodging pansies, I need it. On tuesday my military schedule decreases extremely (SSG here I come), but in the mean time, I dsire answers!!!!

Jeremy Colwell
06-01-2003, 11:43 AM
Okay, whiny military man, here's a file for you. Epic layout 11x17 300dpi (http://home.attbi.com/~colwells3/Epic-11x17-300dpi.jpg) It has all of the Epic specs laid out for you The innermost square is where all the lettering must stay inside and where all of your panels should be contained if you're not doing full-bleed pages. The middle rectangle is where you can assume they will cut the pages after printed. The outside rectangle is how far you need to draw your full-bleed images just in case they don't trim at the exact spot they thought they would. Hope that helps.

I don't know how long the file will be up since I may need the room for other stuff soon, so if the link is dead, sorry.

Jeremy

KainWynd
06-09-2003, 03:58 PM
I understand how to rule a regular bristol board for a normal page. But what paper size is used for doing two-page spreads, and how would you go about ruling those out?

;dvl;

E.J.Su
06-09-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by martin_topsecret
draw to the bleed?

draw to the trim?

is copy safe the space used like in the pages of Watchmen and John Byrnes more conservative stuff? Bleed is the area where there may have extra artwork that falls off the page of the final product.

You can draw all the way to the bleed, but anything outside of the trim will be chopped off.

"copy" in printing means text. so in this case it's talking about word balloons.

E.J.Su
06-09-2003, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by KainWynd
I understand how to rule a regular bristol board for a normal page. But what paper size is used for doing two-page spreads, and how would you go about ruling those out?All you had to do was stick 2 pages of the bristol board together. in this case, bleed wouldn't apply to the edges of the page that was next to each other.

Something like this:
http://www.protodepot.com/post/spread.jpg

Robin Riggs
06-09-2003, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by KainWynd
I understand how to rule a regular bristol board for a normal page. But what paper size is used for doing two-page spreads, and how would you go about ruling those out?


Just take two regular pages and cut off the right "bleed" area on one and the left bleed area on the other. Line them up like in EJ's picture and tape them on the back.

KainWynd
06-10-2003, 10:46 AM
So I was right. Thanks guys, for justifying my suspicions. I just wanted someone to verify what I was already thinking. You guys are really helpful, thanks a lot!! :D

;dvl;

Dash Martin
06-10-2003, 10:58 AM
Oh, the way the first post was worded it looked like you just wanted to know what the bottom line meant.

Cuddly
07-02-2003, 12:34 AM
So here's what I'm unclear on:

Looking at a "traditional" comic book page (i.e. assuming no full bleed), do the panel borders get drawn up to the "trim" line or half an inch in from the "trim" line? Or do they get drawn up to the "copy safe" line?

Coz now my understanding is that the "trim" line is where the paper gets cut during the printing process.

Bruce Lee
07-02-2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Cuddly
So here's what I'm unclear on:

Looking at a "traditional" comic book page (i.e. assuming no full bleed), do the panel borders get drawn up to the "trim" line or half an inch in from the "trim" line? Or do they get drawn up to the "copy safe" line?

Coz now my understanding is that the "trim" line is where the paper gets cut during the printing process.

Draw to the trim line. That's the way things are done, as I understand it (though I usually cut my own paper, and just draw in a 10"X15" area). The modern comic today often incorporates bleeds, which simply means that the artists get an extra 1/4 of an inch beyond the trim area for the artwork. When printed, bleed artwork will run all the way to the edge of the cut paper. But traditional comics don't incorporate bleeds (at least not too often), so if it's the traditional way you want, you should only draw to the trim line, and not beyond.

Loston
http://www.lostonwallace.com

The "copy safe" area is the area inwhich you should try to keep all copy (aka: text, such as balloons & captions) safely within. Otherwise, you run the chance of getting the text cropped by the printer's cutter. A lot of printers make a big fuss if you have text beyond the copy safe area, but I think the area indicated usually indicated as the copy safe area is a tad too conservative.

Robin Riggs
07-02-2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Cuddly
So here's what I'm unclear on:

Looking at a "traditional" comic book page (i.e. assuming no full bleed), do the panel borders get drawn up to the "trim" line or half an inch in from the "trim" line? Or do they get drawn up to the "copy safe" line?

Coz now my understanding is that the "trim" line is where the paper gets cut during the printing process.

If by "traditional" you mean something like Kirby's FF or Byrne's X-Men then the lines to use are the copy safe lines. That'll give you the six panels with white space all round them look.

The trim line is literally where the blade comes down when the comics are trimmed at the printers. Never put a panel border line directly on or very close to the trim line. Because trimming a stack of books is rather imprecise your line will appear in some books and not in others. If you want your panel to be completely on the page with it's border showing then keep it at least a quarter inch or so inside the trim line. If you want something to bleed off the page then draw it all the way to the outside bleed line.

I cannot overstate this DON'T DRAW PANEL BORDERS ON THE TRIM LINE! If you do the inker will just have to correct it and if he doesn't then you're leaving your page design up to someone in production because they will have to make the page fit their template. It happens, believe me.

Bruce Lee
07-03-2003, 01:07 AM
Looking back on my comic original art, I realize that Robin's right. I was thinking about the modern comic instead of the traditional. The problem is that there are so many damned blue line formats and terms, that it's all more confusing than it needs to be. This is one of the reasons, I suspect, why so many creators would rather cut their own boards. ;) Anyway, traditional comics were drawn with the panels within the copy safe area, as Robin has said.

Basically anything within the copy area (or safe area) is safe from being cropped ( trimmed) by the printer's cutter, which cuts along the trim line (aka the crop line).

The modern way of doing things is to use what's called a full trim format, and a lot of the blue line boards are formatted for full trim. In the full trim format, the artist has a little more room to draw, but he or she still wants to place all the important art and text within the copy or copy safe area.

Loston
http://www.lostonwallace.com

Cuddly
07-04-2003, 05:46 AM
Wow, thanks for the feedback Loston and Robin! I used my new EON art boards for the first time in this week's Critical Mass assignment and it's the first time I'm using "full bleed" artboard. My old BlueLinePro boards are ruled to the old format, so I was a tad confused. Many thanks for clearing all that up.

One more question. How should I handle space for the indicia on a splash page? How much space should be left? And is that measured from the trim line or the copy-safe line? Or what?

Robin Riggs
07-04-2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Cuddly
One more question. How should I handle space for the indicia on a splash page? How much space should be left? And is that measured from the trim line or the copy-safe line? Or what?

Don't even think about it when you're doing samples. There's really no point. When you get to work for Marvel the area to leave is marked on the pages. DC don't have the indicia on the pages any more (except for a couple of Adventures books) it's been moved to the editorial page in the back of the book.

If for reasons I can't imagine you ever want to indicate an indicia placement in the "traditional" area it would be about an inch and a half area inside the bottom of the copy safe or live area. It's copy so it has to be inside the lines. :)

Cuddly
07-10-2003, 10:09 PM
Thanks Robin! :)

xadrian
07-16-2003, 10:29 AM
Speaking of being confusing with all the different formats. What do you do with covers, draw on the full 11x17 or still in the 10x15 area?

Ian Miller
07-16-2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by xadrian
What do you do with covers, draw on the full 11x17 or still in the 10x15 area?

I think it's still 10 x 15. In actuality, you don't have to use 11 x 17 paper. If you've read How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way by Stan the Man and John Buscema, they recommend using 10 x 15 bristol paper. I don't know if they changed these requirements, but comic pages are still being printed the same size, so I guess that's the size to use. So use 10 x 17 for a cover, and I guess use the whole thing when you're drawing.

By the way, someone had a diagram of how to arrange panels for a double page spread. I never thought of cutting the paper myself to line the pages up. Will this affect the printing process at all if the page is cut in one area?

Robin Riggs
07-16-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by xadrian
Speaking of being confusing with all the different formats. What do you do with covers, draw on the full 11x17 or still in the 10x15 area?

For the big publishers you'll get different board for covers. If you're doing it on regular paper just treat it as a full bleed page and use the full art area.

xadrian
07-16-2003, 01:42 PM
gotcha! thank you.

Robin Riggs
07-16-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by UniverseX259
By the way, someone had a diagram of how to arrange panels for a double page spread. I never thought of cutting the paper myself to line the pages up. Will this affect the printing process at all if the page is cut in one area?

It will print fine if you cut the paper. If you don't trim the extra bleed and just tape the pages together the grid on the pages will be in the wrong place and become meaningless. Your art area would be too wide for the printed page. I've seen this happen and production then has the choice of chopping of art at the edges of the page or reducing it further than intended and having blank strips at the top and bottom of the spread like a letterboxed movie. Neither of which are particularly desirable. :)