Marvel Sample Page 6

[fusciart]

I need something more to spice up this page but I don't know what.

Any suggestions?

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/fuscia/Page_6.jpg

[PHISCH]

Good drawn....

...but a little too static. I think it can need more dynamic...


http://penciljack.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Temperance]

yeah... just needs some more dynamic screen angles and poses.
Panel 1: I love the background, but I don't like the angle... I think it's cause it's pretty straight on. To make it look more like Mr. Fantastic is going on one crazy wild ride you need to change the angle. Maybe an above shot, just to sho how far he's being swung. Or perhaps put the villan in the foreground, so you can see Mr. Fantasic over his shoulder. That way you know he's heading straight for that pole, and boy is he going to feel that one in the morning XP
Panel 2: that one's alright by me
Panel 3: what the heck? boy it took me awhile to figure out what just happened. maybe if you pulled the shout out more so you can see more of the villian's torso. I thought at first the Human Torch's hands came in out of nowhere and Mr. Fantastic was trying to slap up the bad guy. but now I see... he was just trying to get free. Those flaming hands look like they're comming out of nowhere. With a shot that has zoomed out a little, I would have realised right away that those hands were attached to the villan's body, and there would have been less confusion.

I stilllove you pencil-work and your backgrounds. Keep up the good work

[Popninja]

Just a couple of suggestions...

First, in agreement with PHISCH, this page is very static and dull. I've tried to explain this to you several times, and this will definitely be the last time, that your sequences always appear to be missing a panel or two. And the panels that seem to be missing are the ones that would be the most interesting. For example, Reed being flung away from the mysterious stranger in panel one is, in panel two, already wrapped around the lamp post in panel two. Showing Reed use his brain, see the post, and decide to wrap around it, would have been an interesting sequence. As it is, you have Reed's back to the post in the first panel. How did he see it? Did he turn around before he hit the post? Or did he hit the post, say "Ow," and then wrap around the post? There shouldn't be any questions in a sequential. The best you could do to salvage this page would be to add three panels to this page. One showing Reed looking back as he approaches the post, and then one showing him react and wrap himself around it. Flip panel two, as it is now, so the mysterious stranger is on the other side of the panel. Take the Thing out of panel two, as it is now, because he doesn't need to be there. You've made Reed appears to have two left hands in panel three, as it is now. I think as such a large panel, this one is the most bland. I would flip this one, as well, and I would add an inset panel showing Reed's reaction to being burned. You know, one of them "AAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!" shots.

Let me just add one thing, before I go. You are really good at detailing and backgrounds. With that said, I think you really need to turn your focus to what you need work on. Panel dynamics, anatomy, perspective and your approach to telling a story with your art. You need to stop assuming that we know what it happening or has happened and show us. I don't know how old you are, but from the way you draw I would have to peg you as being older. I'm 33 and one the things I am struggling with most now is making my work look relevant next to some of these young bucks. You can't play it safe. You have to take it to an all new level, especially in this case when you're dealing with superheroes. As they are now, your submissions are just okay. At first look, the good things are the attention to detail in the backgrounds and the really good linework, but then once you get down to brass tacks, we're left with all of the bad things--abrupt scene changes, anatomy issues and such. Before showing these pages to an editor, step back and take a really good look at what you've done. You should know exactly what they look for from a submission. In Marvel's case, they want to see that you can draw EVERYTHING that's basic. Cars, trees, buildings, bathrooms, kitchens, playgrounds, you name it. They're not so much interested in whether you can draw Reed Richards fighting a mysterious stranger as they are in you showing Reed Richards making pancakes for Sue, while talking on the phone. As important as the action is, the down time is just as important. That's what makes establishing shots so important(one thing you seem to leave out in EVERY submission you've posted so far). In an establishing shot, you can show not only where a story is taking place, but you can include a lot of the little things an editor wants to see if you can draw.

I'm going on too long. Good luck to you, fusciart. I, for one, know how hard this is. Keep working hard and getting better.

[fusciart]

Thanks Popninja.

I'll make sure to put in more info on this page and the other pages. As it is I really don't like it.

I always thought that if you put in too much information it slows the pacing.

You gave me a great idea with the establishing shot suggestion. Iv'e been thinking of what kind of pin ups I could do to separate the story arcs. I think I'll do establishing shot pin ups.

I've also decided to do a couple pages of people doing normal stuff like you suggested. Driving, eating, sleeping, watching t.v. so you probably haven't seen the last of me.

Thanks again for your invaluable advice.

[Popninja]

Originally posted by fusciart
Thanks Popninja.

I always thought that if you put in too much information it slows the pacing.

You gave me a great idea with the establishing shot suggestion. Iv'e been thinking of what kind of pin ups I could do to separate the story arcs. I think I'll do establishing shot pin ups.

I've also decided to do a couple pages of people doing normal stuff like you suggested. Driving, eating, sleeping, watching t.v. so you probably haven't seen the last of me.

Thanks again for your invaluable advice.

You're welcome.

As far as too much information, you don't want to do that, either, but not enough information is really bad. There's a happy medium that you have to find, one that satisfies the reader. You should approach every page as if it were part of an "'Nuff Said" issue. Pretend there will be no words and tell the story with your art. That's the goal of a penciler, always.

The establishing pin-up thing could work, possibly.

You can actually add panels in your regular submissions of people doing normal things. You can show a guy talking on a cell phone, watching the FF fight the mysterious stranger...from inside his car. You can mix it up in all sorts of different ways. I used to have this "standard" submission that I used for every company. It always started with either a kid or a family or superhero cozying up to the television to watch their favorite show, just to have it interrupted by a "SPECIAL NEWS REPORT." It would then follow with a news anchor reporting on a battle downtown and would show the participants and then the scene would shift to the battle downtown. It's a good opener because you can show the inside of a house, with the inhabitants doing all sorts of normal things in one or two panels and then cut to the news report and then immediately cut to the action.

I certainly hope we haven't seen the last of you. Nobody puts this much time into a pages with the intentions of giving up. I'm glad my words were helpful. Keep posting those pages.

[David.larkin]

Hi Rich,

On frame one, my initial reaction was the up side down man should have his head tucked to his chest and his back should be rounded.

I tryed to included one of Eadweard Muybridges photo’s of a man doing a back flip, but I still haven't figured out how to post an image here. I will post it in my office for you to look at under file with your name on it.

What I realised in looking at the Muybridge photo is that the man doing the back flip is looks where he wants to go. Just like a race car driver. So, the intent of his body follows his gaze.

Take a look at the photo, maybe you could draw the frame as a stop action like you did in frame three.

David

[fusciart]

Here's a link to the reference David was talking about. I'd post it here but the guy's naked. You'd think they'd put some underware on this guy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/fuscia/eaweard_muybridge_back_flip.jpg

[Bruce Lee]

Rich,

My suggestions (panel by panel):

Panel One: This panel is static. The villain's pose lacks dynamics, and needs more body language to emphasize a throwing motion. Just having him standing with his arms up isn't doing you any favors as it helps make this panel very bland. Mr. Fantastic needs more body language also. Considering the way he's been tossed, his body should be arching more. Bend him at the waist a little in order to jazz him up. He's too stiff for a guy that's just been thrown for a loop. And since we're on the subject of Reed, why not show him crashing into the lamp post in this shot? Otherwise, you're going to need to add another panel displaying the impact, which is unnecessary when you can show the entire action in one frame. One way or the other, you can't avoid showing Reed's impact. It's not only too much of a cheat from an audience standpoint, it also comes off as a strange transition.

The perspective is also sort of funky I'm afraid, and the figures don't seem to fit within the panel naturally. The villain and the Thing seem to be too small. To compound things, your building is a tad on the generic side--something that also contributes to the blandness of the overall image.:( Use some reference and make this building look real, dude!

You might also want to consider tilting the panel a little counterclockwise. This will add interest to the scene.

Another idea might be to rework the scene entirely. Maybe we could be seeing the action from the Thing's POV. You could do a nice bit with Reed's arms tapering as his body is tossed into the distance, adding a nice bit of depth.

Panel Two: I like what's happening with Mr. Fantastic--the way he's wrapping around the pole--but the villain's pose is less than dynamic. It would certainly help to have him reacting to Reed's aggressive attack a little more. He doesn't look surprised in the least. But how can you make a character with a full face mask look surprised? The answer once again is body language. More can be done by bending/arching the bad guy's body, and animating his arms.

Panel Three: Aaahhh! Reed has two left hands!! That needs some fixin'. Since we're on the subject of fixing hands...Reed's hands don't express the pain he should be feeling, Rich. Try putting your hand in the fire (don't do it!) and see if your fingers stay together like that (Please say you didn't do it!!)! Seriously, man, don't underestimate how much the human hands can get across messages like pain, fear, surprise, etc.

Here's a quick Photoshop overlay that should help give you a few ideas. I'm sorry that I don't have time to do more than rough doodles, but hopefully it will still be helpful to you.

http://www.lostonwallace.com/page6.jpg

Take it easy, amigo! :)

Loston
http://www.lostonwallace.com

[fusciart]

You rock Loston!

I'm completely redoing this page adding 2 more panels of a p.o.v. of a pedestrion watching the action in his car on the street corner. I was going to add 5 but your overlay made it clear I only need 2.

Your the man!

Looking forward to the Heroes Con.

[Bruce Lee]

No problem, dude! I like helping out when I can. I hope you'll drop by my table and say hello, Rich! :)

Take care,

Loston
http://www.lostonwallace.com

[Ian Miller]

Fusciart,
I like the way your FF page looks. It's highly detailed and looks very professional. However, there are a few things that could be altered.
1. In panel 1, when Reed is strecthing, his arms are stretched, but his shoulders and back look normal. I think by making the shoulders stretch with his arms, it would look better (Looking back at this, the way I explained this is a little confusing).
2. The characters look a little stiff. If you use stick figures to plan out the page, make them a little more dynamic.
3. The Thing looks good, but he doesn't look enough like a brute from the back. By lowering his head and widening his shoulders, he'd look a little better.
4. When Senor Fantastic's hands stretch towards the bad guy (Is that Dr. Doom?) his left thumb is pointing the correct way, but his right hand, palm up like the left, has the thumb facing the same way as the left hand. It would look better if this was altered.
Anyway, it looks great as it is, but I hope you like my suggestions.

IJM