Hulk vs Deathlok/Phil Clark vs Morganza Battle (K.O.- Phil Clark)

[Phil Clark]

Ok. Both contestants have finished their art. So here we go.

Phil Clark's art:

http://www.images-eye.com/arena_art/hulk-deathlok-med-res.jpg

Morganza's Art:

http://www.blackpyramidstudios.com/images/PhilC.jpg

You know the drill. So, who wins this battle?

LET'S GET IT ON!

[Meta-Knight]

went with Phil...I like the action and the clear view of both characters....Deathlok kicks ass X3

[PizzatheHutt3000]

I Had to go with Mongaza's.

Phil Clarks is nice I admit but three areas make me go to Morganza's as the winner of my vote.

First is the hand on DeathLok, this sticks out like a sore thumb as being just as long as his forearm. Also, the leg on our left has an awkward curve, it looks like it would fit better on the opposite leg with an opposite foot. Third is the Hulks back, I'd really like to see rounded or more obvious muscle on the Hulk, it looks like he almost has a sag in one area specifically. As a minor and not so important area, the hand going into the wall could use more effort , maybe just a hint of a thumb.

On the otherhand...

Morganza's has no flaw that hits me over the head...or even really hints to me, he has a great Hulk and those robots really add a nice touch. As a matter of fact the only thing I can find to crit on Morganza's pic is the Hulks haircut.

great job to both, but Morganza wins this one hands down, IMHO.

[InkDrop]

Originally posted by PizzatheHutt3000
As a matter of fact the only thing I can find to crit on Morganza's pic is the Hulks haircut.

great job to both, but Morganza wins this one hands down, IMHO.

Agreed. Hulks hair makes him look a bit like clark kent...lol...but nice job both of you.

PEACE,
Drop

[Juan]

I like them both. I think you both did a good job on this challenge.

I like Phil's because of the action packed framework, but I also like Morgan's because of all the extra characters in the piece...

...decisions, decisions...

*flips a quarter*

I'm not telling who I voted for.

;dvl;

[...o...k....]

I voted for Phil. Both had a lot of action but Phil drew my eye into the action. When I first looked at Morg's, it took me a while to see the action. I also don't really like the way Morg drew Hulk's face. Yeah, that's a bad reason but there it is.

[Rey de las Cabras]

There things I like about both and things that really really bother me about both, but I'll save the crits for the drawing board I guess, if you guys post them up over there.

Morganza takes it for me after a long time debating it.

[mavra_aka_j9]

hej ya'll,

well, i voted for morg's
cos.... well, i concur with the issues noted by pizza
and 'sides that .... i do not like the mouth you drew on hulk or the haphazard way you have his head there phil. and the only thing i like in the piece is.... the face you gave deathlok
but, i really like the action in morg's
the arm rippin' thing got me :)

[Vegeta]

I voted for Phil's.

[Juan]

HAHA...I just noticed Mav's sig...I'm the official pj asshole...


LOL!

Damn straight Ms. Mavra.

;dvl;

[Juan]

http://www.juansoriginalart.com/hosed.jpg

[Juan]

So, Morgan, how does it feel to have been beaten by Phil Clark?

I think we just need to accept the fact that we suck at art and that Phil Ownz us all...sad but true...

;dvl;

[Phil Clark]

That's right slappy. Why don't you and Morgan form a support group. ;)

[Morganza]

Last time i checked the votes we were tied and now all of a sudden Phil wins, yeah he is clearly the winner, i can't say i'm shocked. Way to go Phil. maybe we should try again on a more stable message board, one were my my votes dont magically disappear?

[Phil Clark]

We were tied for a bit, then I pulled back out in front. Then votes for both of us disappeared.

But in the spirit of "lets try it again when things are more stable", any time you wanna go again, I am up for it.

That goes for you too Juan. These arena battles with the two of you forced me to push myself (hard). And the results speak for themselves. So any time you two wanna go at it again, I am up for it. Maybe in an open challenge so that it can be all three of us and any other commers? Sound like an idea to both of you? Maybe challenging both of you at once will push my art even further, and that is what this is really all about for me. Not winning, but improving my art.

[Morganza]

I think we should take this draw off to a neutral MB, where niether of us have been to before and are unknown, that would be a true test i believe. Then we can use the same pics or draw new stuff, it's up to you.

[penciljack]

Told ya, Phil. Anyway, if it makes you feel better, Morganza, I just checked the old server, and the vote count total on it was 31-25 in Phil's favor.

You can check the results yourself by visiting the old site, before it's deleted - type in this IP address in your browser:

66.70.158.185

[Phil Clark]

Originally posted by Morganza
I think we should take this draw off to a neutral MB...

The problem is finding a neutral message board that neither of us has ever been too, that will allow us to both post our art in a single thread and post a poll so people can vote on the art.

Plus, if it is a message board that has never been visited by either one of us, it probably isn't worth the effort of registering with them.

And what does a nuetral board do anyway, since we would be telling people to go there and vote anyway.

If you don't want to do it here, thats fine. But going elsewhere is pointless. Besides, you would lose your only excuse when you lose again. ;)

[Juan]

I'd actually like to try a 3-way draw off between all of us. I think that'd be fun, but I can't do it right now. I'm swamped with commissions at the moment. If you guys can wait a couple weeks, I'll be game.

;dvl;

[Phil Clark]

Sounds good to me. Just make sure that if you start the thread you email or pm me so I know it. I don't check that forum all that often. Particularly since I am getting really busy with freelance advertising design and production. But I will make time for this. ;)

[Morganza]

I've had enough, you win Phil, you may continue to gloat and be an ass about all you want;)

[Phil Clark]

Well, if you think I am gloating, and you are upset because you didn't get more votes then me... then you just don't get it. These battles aren't about "winning" against another person. They are about "winning" against yourself. Improving your art and having fun while at it.

These last two battles are the first two battles I have won out of the 6 or so that I have done. Did I give up? No. Because with each battle I acheived a new level of craftsmanship that I had not acheived before.

If you call that gloating, then you will really hate it when I finally show everyone the finished art for the first issue of Asylum: Heaven. :D

[Morganza]

Originally posted by Phil Clark

Besides, you would lose your only excuse when you lose again. ;)

That's right slappy. Why don't you and Morgan form a support group.

What the hell do you call that?

Of course you wouldn't feel comfortable in a draw off anywhere else Phil, having it here is the only advantage you got, + i never told people to go vote for me. That defeats the purpose of having a draw off if your friends just vote for you.

At least your craftsmanship is improving, to you anyway.;)

[Devilman]

I can't see Phil's so i won't vote, but it looks like Morganza's hulk is ready to get his rape on!

[penciljack]

I warned Phil this would happen. In fact, my prediction has come exactly true .... kinda spooky.

[Morganza]

Originally posted by penciljack
I warned Phil this would happen. In fact, my prediction has come exactly true .... kinda spooky.

It must be a burden to be right all the time, i knew this would happen too. I also knew you would have something to say about it, as always.

[penciljack]

Well, it's true that Phil is a friend of mine. But when he mentioned to me that he was doing a Duel with you, Morganza, I just told him the truth - it was a no win situation for him. If he lost .... well, he lost. And if he won, I told him, you'd say he won only because his friends voted for him (seems some of your friends voted for you, too, though) and/or you'd accuse me of trying to set the odds in his favor.

You've done both.

I really have no vested interest in who wins these things. It's just that the same old sore-loser excuses get tiresome. The point of this forum is "friendly" competition. If you're going to get your nose out of joint everytime you lose and go off insulting folks who win against you, both here and on your own message board, maybe you should just steer clear of the Arena here.

[Morganza]

Who have i insulted on my message board??? Thats an outright lie!

I think the cracks Phil made were insulting, i was never in his face about this draw off like Juan was, so it was friendly up until Juan and Phil started acting like asses.

Phil i believe you drew you pic at the very last minute, you did not put in the effort you said you would, you did exactly like Juan. It's no mystery to me how you won.

Pj you can BS all you want to, doesn't make it so, you do have an intrest here and you show it nicely.

[penciljack]

A lie? I think the exact quote was "Well, i'm no Phil Clark, but thanks for the crits. I'll try harder." I took it as an insult.

I don't have an interest in who wins or loses, but your'e right, I do have an interest here. This Arena forum was created, as I said, for "friendly" competitions. If folks are going to get pissed off everytime they lose, then that just sucks the "friendly" right out of it. I think you'll notice that I've responded to a lot of folks who threw tantrums after they lost, so in this regard, Morganza, you're not getting any special treatment.

[Morganza]

Originally posted by penciljack
A lie? I think the exact quote was "Well, i'm no Phil Clark, but thanks for the crits. I'll try harder." I took it as an insult.


Wow, i can see how you can take it as an insult, you look at everything i say in a negitive context. Here i thought i was complementing Phil, it's funny how you see things, eh?

[penciljack]

Nice try, but I'm not buying it, especially after the denigrating things you've said here in this forum. Such as:


Phil i believe you drew you pic at the very last minute, you did not put in the effort you said you would, you did exactly like Juan. It's no mystery to me how you won.

I'm not quite as stupid as you'd like to believe.

You engage in duels here for "friendly" competition. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Most folks get this extremely basic concept.

[Morganza]

Originally posted by penciljack
Nice try, but I'm not buying it, especially after the denigrating things you've said here in this forum. Such as:



I'm not quite as stupid as you'd like to believe.

You engage in duels here for "friendly" competition. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Most folks get this extremely basic concept.

I said those things in this forum because you jerks are playing with me, and you are jerking people around when you tell everyone i was insluting Phil on my MB, when it was entirely your own opinion. So now you want try to insult my intelligence with extremely basic concepts, thats' ok because thats the type of person you are, i love when you talk down to people to prove your right. You make yourself seem as though everything is so obvious to you, what is obvious is your contempt, and not just for me but for anyone who "opposes" you or your arguements.

[Popninja]

Well, from the outside looking in, you're coming off as a major ass in this thread, Morganza. Sorry, but it's just the way it reads.

And I can't see Phil's drawing either. I tried to see it at it's URL, too, and it's not working for me there either. So, I can't vote yet.

[penciljack]

Sorry, Morganza, but you're sounding like a broken record. You call it "talking down" I call it telling you the truth. The vast majority of folks who participate in the Arena understand that you win some, you lose some. Most of those folks don't insult their opponents afterwards, or get pissed off at some playful trash-talking, or try to insinuate there's some vast conspiracy at work to make them *gasp* lose a Duel.

[Paul M.]

Why can't I see Phils'?

[Morganza]

Originally posted by penciljack
Sorry, Morganza, but you're sounding like a broken record. You call it "talking down" I call it telling you the truth. The vast majority of folks who participate in the Arena understand that you win some, you lose some. Most of those folks don't insult their opponents afterwards, or get pissed off at some playful trash-talking, or try to insinuate there's some vast conspiracy at work to make them *gasp* lose a Duel.

How do you decern who's trash talking is "playful" and who's isn't, i never would have said anything if your MB didn't screw up the votes in the first place, so give it a rest. You promote a double standard, talk out both sides of your mouth, but it's your forum play with it as you will.

[penciljack]

Grow up. You were provided a link to the old message board. Seems you actually got a benefit from the move to the new server, so I don't know why you're complaining.

[Morganza]

Originally posted by penciljack
Grow up.

You continue to prove my point stated earlyer.

[penciljack]

Well, I'm sorry, but if the shoe fits ....

[Morganza]

Originally posted by penciljack
Well, I'm sorry, but if the shoe fits ....

exactly

[Juan]

Okay I think I'll stay out of this one. Phil and I had our draw off and it was fun. I didn't mind losing one bit, because it was all in fun. Thanks again Phil and hopefully we can do it again sometime soon. I'd like to see your take on a woman this next time.

;dvl;

[Phil Clark]

OK. My art is back. I was cleaning up the server space, and accidentally deleted this art along with other files I meant to delete. So anyone who hasn't voted yet is now welcome to do so.

Morgan... All I can say is that every time I have seen you loose a battle, it is NEVER your art at fault. But instead it is that someone cheated. They got freinds to vote for them or something. In that regard I agree with what terry said. Grow up.

Now, regarding the "Phil i believe you drew you pic at the very last minute, you did not put in the effort you said you would, you did exactly like Juan." comment. Firstly, who had their work done within two days of accepting the challenge. Two work days, mind you. So how much time did you actually devote to this yourself. I don't feel that you took it seriously and didn't put much effort into it too. But that is because I have seen far better from you.

If you are going to throw around accusations, at least be even about it.

[Phil Clark]

Originally posted by Juan
Okay I think I'll stay out of this one. Phil and I had our draw off and it was fun. I didn't mind losing one bit, because it was all in fun. Thanks again Phil and hopefully we can do it again sometime soon. I'd like to see your take on a woman this next time.

;dvl;

Just let me know when. I need lots of practice drawing women. Lots of practice.

[Aridante]

Morg, shut yer damn piehole, ya yappin' douchebag.
And stop tryin' to pimp your messageboard. Pweh. "Neutral" MB, pleeeasseee. I like some friendly mud slinging every now and then, but come onnn.

Anyway.

Phil...I can see the picture!! O_O!!! Great action shot, never thought I'd see someone draw Deathlok again *ahhh...memories* I like the dynamics and the Hulk's expression. Plus, Deathlok is look pretty damn sweet. There's just a couple of anatomy issues which some people have already touched upon, so I won't rehash. My only thing is that I wish I could see more tension in Hulk's arm, the one that's smashing the wall. Also, I wish I could see more structural anatomy in the shoulder/back area, as its looking a little flat as compared to the arms. *pokes* Background, dude, more backgrounnnd. ;)

Morg...As always, lovely work on the pencil handling, totally old skool and what not. Great job on the multiple figure comp, I know it can be a little difficult for some people to handle. Just a couple of things: background. Although I do like what's going on, I just wish there was a setting in which the action was taking place. It feels a little incomplete without it. Also, watch the anatomy on Hulk's right leg. The calf area is simply too short, and it looks like the knee is almost flush with the ankle. Additionally, watch the structure and shape of those gastrocnemius muscles--they're getting a little parallel with each other instead of being asymmetrical.

Anyway, I voted, but I won't spill the beans as to which one. heh.

[Morganza]

Originally posted by Aridante
Morg, shut yer damn piehole, ya yappin' douchebag.
And stop tryin' to pimp your messageboard. Pweh. "Neutral" MB, pleeeasseee. I like some friendly mud slinging every now and then, but come onnn.



Ok you silly bitch, you sound like you need to sling some mud, and thanks for the crits.

[Morganza]

Originally posted by Phil Clark
Morgan... All I can say is that every time I have seen you loose a battle, it is NEVER your art at fault. But instead it is that someone cheated. They got freinds to vote for them or something. In that regard I agree with what terry said. Grow up.


Yeah, every single time, how often was it? I think i've won like 2 draw offs out of 30 something, so i must of complained about it 28 times already. I'm tired of you guys saying things that are completley not true, i lost to David Bovey about 15 times and to Devilman around 10, i've been soundly beaten to death on PJ since i've been here.

Phil, you need to go lay down and let your brainstem continue to grow so your brain can start to function normally, cause your mouth ain't right.

[Juan]

Now now children, you arent setting a very good example for the others around here now are you? Just let it go and move on...this draw off is done and over with. Go on about your lives.

[Phil Clark]

Anneth. :D

Always a pleasure to hear from you. You were away for a bit to long. Yeah, everyone is right about the anatomy issues. And backgrounds are one (of many) of my personal weaknesses. But they are starting to come around. I was really concentraiting on getting an improvement of line-quality on these latest drawings.

As soon as my arm recovers from those hard pokes ;) I will work on pushing things even further.

Morgan, since...

...i've been soundly beaten to death on PJ since i've been here.
then why don't you just sulk off to your own message board and stop bitching about it here. We're all sick of hearing about it. This is all supposed to be fun. That is why I started drawing, because I love it. If you can't take losing then don't accept the challenge. When drawing is your main goal (not winning) you will start winning more, because the joy will show in what you draw.

That is the biggest problem I have ever seen in any of your art. It is so mechanical. No life or joy to it. I hope I never get that way.

[Morganza]

Originally posted by Phil Clark

then why don't you just sulk off to your own message board and stop bitching about it here. We're all sick of hearing about it. This is all supposed to be fun. That is why I started drawing, because I love it. If you can't take losing then don't accept the challenge. When drawing is your main goal (not winning) you will start winning more, because the joy will show in what you draw.

That is the biggest problem I have ever seen in any of your art. It is so mechanical. No life or joy to it. I hope I never get that way.

Who did what now? Your the one saying i bitch every time i have a draw off, thats a lie, your mouth still ain't right. Why don't you goto my MB and post some art, or maybe you dont feel so confident about your art somewhere else, or my forum is just beneath your standards.

I do enjoy drawing, but only when it's for me, and i'm working on my gesture drawing thanks.

|Get yo mouth right!
Hey Phil, if winning isn't the goal then maybe you should take out the voting altogether.

[Phil Clark]

Originally posted by Morganza
Why don't you goto my MB and post some art, or maybe you dont feel so confident about your art somewhere else, or my forum is just beneath your standards.

Funny how you forget to mention that I posted both of these last two drawings over at the Digital Webbing boards. I am still a junior member there. But then that would be facts that don't support your position, so they aren't important here, huh?

Anyway, the bottom line isn't confidence, it is benefits. I post elsewhere and get 1-3 comments on my art. I post here and get 7-12. And from people whos work I know and respect. That is beneficial to me.

This isn't about popularity, it is about getting better. If people like me that is a bonus. If they don't, no skin off my nose.

But you seem to need to be liked. If you accepted defeat when it came instead of making excuses... but then, that isn't your way, is it?

[Aridante]

Originally posted by Morganza
Ok you silly bitch, you sound like you need to sling some mud, and thanks for the crits.
heh heh, sling it my way, baby. I'll wear my best thong, and you wear yours.

:D

Phil...yeahhhh that's my bad, I'm still behind on one draw off *coughs and nervously looks about for -her- * because I suddenly got overloaded with a bunch of illo assignments (go me). I promise to hang around more, though *waves her trusty poker*

[Morganza]

Originally posted by Phil Clark
Funny how you forget to mention that I posted both of these last two drawings over at the Digital Webbing boards. I am still a junior member there. But then that would be facts that don't support your position, so they aren't important here, huh?

Anyway, the bottom line isn't confidence, it is benefits. I post elsewhere and get 1-3 comments on my art. I post here and get 7-12. And from people whos work I know and respect. That is beneficial to me.

This isn't about popularity, it is about getting better. If people like me that is a bonus. If they don't, no skin off my nose.

But you seem to need to be liked. If you accepted defeat when it came instead of making excuses... but then, that isn't your way, is it?

I say try my forum and see, you don't think respectable people post at my forum?

I posted my draw off pic at DW and got over 20 replys, so i guess the people there are not respectable enough for you, i know damn well i'm not liked by most people here or there so maybe excuses is your way?

Maybe i should join a support group, you should be there too.

Get yo mouth right.

[Paul M.]

I post on the BPS boards...heh

can't we all just get along?

[PizzatheHutt3000]

Do a draw off at Morganza's board, if you beat him there then no debate.

Or

Do a draw off at Digital Webbing, you are both Members and it's about as neutral as you'll get.

[penciljack]

Well, I'd caution you all, it's a no win situation. See this thread for evidence. Why do we have voting? Because, waaay back when, when folks wanted to do draw-offs, that was what they wanted. Most people accept it as (I'm sounding like a broken record now, too) friendly competition. That's what it ought to be.

Regardless of what some folks think of me, I can't force people to vote for one person or the other. All I have is my one vote, and that's the extent of my influence on any of the duels in the Arena. But that's the beauty of it. We all get to vote, and have a good time seeing the results of everybody's work. When people throw tantrums over losing, it directly saps the fun right out of it.

[Morganza]

Yeah, it's not like PJ hasn't had to "fix" someones votes in the past because it was tampered with.

[penciljack]

Ah, so now I suppose its official - you believe that we fixed the voting to ensure a Phil's victory. Right. Because ... I've got nothing better to do, I guess. Whatever suits you, Morgan. Whatever suits you. I guess you don't mind the few votes you got while Phil's art link was broken? Seems unfair for folks to vote for you when Phil's art wasn't even available for viewing.

[Morganza]

Who said it had to be you? Who cares about 3 votes i got when Phil already declared victory? Do you deny that you had to fix votes before?

[Juan]

Now you both are acting like big ****ing babies...just drop it and let this shit go. You both have better things to be doing with your life than bickering over a ****ing message board...

[penciljack]

I can only recall one single instance regarding votes being edited. But does it really matter? Whatever I say, you'll prescribe some evil intentions to it. First it was Phil's "friends" all voting for him, now it's me or some other Mod "fixing" the duel against you. Much as you'd apparently like to believe it, the world - and this forum - doesn't revolve around you, Morgan.

I've spent far too much time bandying this back and forth with you as it is. It comes down this - if you aren't prepared to lose against someone, regardless of how inferior you must feel their artwork is, don't engage in a duel with them. That'll protect your ego and spare us all the tantrums.

[Morganza]

Originally posted by penciljack
I can only recall one single instance regarding votes being edited. But does it really matter? Whatever I say, you'll prescribe some evil intentions to it. First it was Phil's "friends" all voting for him, now it's me or some other Mod "fixing" the duel against you. Much as you'd apparently like to believe it, the world - and this forum - doesn't revolve around you, Morgan.


Yes it matters! The fact that you don't think tampering with matters validates everything i've been trying to say. All the while you have been bragging about how this is not an issue, when in fact it happens. Who knows what happens under your nose, like you care.

Spare me you witty retorte, the point is people tamper with the votes and you know it, i'm the only one to speak up about it. Your site revolves around you, i know that.

[penciljack]

Right, well, I've had enough of your tantrum. Like I said, no matter what I'd say, you'd prescribe some silly evil intentions to it. I've never been anything but open and honest about every aspect of how I run this site, and I don't intend to change that.

Quite easily, I could do like some other folks have done in other situations I have seen online at sites that have long since come and gone, and I could simply deny any and all accusations. Or I could just delete all threads or posts that are critical of me and pretend no issues ever arise. But I made it a personal policy to not do that. And now, as a result of that policy I set in place myself a long time ago, I get to come in here and see Morganza slander me and my site and accuse me of outlandish things.

Again.

That's the price I pay, though, and I guess I'll just have to live with that.

It's too bad you got your feelings hurt, Morganza. But you really have to understand, the other moderators and I have far, FAR better things to do with our time than to monitor all your duels in some sort of imagined effort to ensure you lose as often as possible. I know for a fact that you and I have had this conversation before, and it's always ended the same way. So the last advice I have for you is to steer clear of the Arena. Just as I'm not going to go to any lengths to ensure you lose, I'm not going to go to any lengths to ensure you win, either, and I really don't want to have to witness another tantrum if you lose.

This thread, as it exists here in the Arena, is now being closed. If you feel you simply must debate this further with me, you can do so either in the Penciljack Info forum or you can e-mail or PM me about it. I now return you to your regularly scheduled Arena fun.