View Full Version : My rave reveue on WTF Studios!
Morganza
10-08-2002, 11:47 PM
http://www.wtfstudios.com/fromhell.cfm?Article=12
This is by far my finest hour, enjoy:D
*throws more gasoline on the fire*
Oh, watch it burn.
:D
Devilman
10-09-2002, 12:12 AM
you're so money hungry and egotistical! I hope you die!
MC Fumunda
10-09-2002, 12:38 AM
you expect me to read all that?
Morganza
10-09-2002, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by MC Fumunda
you expect me to read all that?
You don't think i'm worth reading it all?:(
Bruce
10-09-2002, 06:43 AM
I dont know if I am reading it wrong but in no way did youseem to be in the wrong. It is really impressive to see these people crash and burn. They cant stay a float for very much longer.
Inkthinker
10-09-2002, 07:17 AM
Sorry, Morg... I started to read it, and then about a dozen or so posts in realized that I go tto hear arguments like this WAAAAY to often in the real world... you'll pardon me if I try to avoid them here in the virtual one.
Just the same, for what it's worth... this is why I HATE working on anything without a solid contract detailing payment and production. I would advise some of the other artists here on PJ who are just beginning to work in the field to take a look at this conversation, if only to prepare themsleves for their own arguments that will undoubtedly have to go through at some point or another. We all have to have that argument with a client at some point...
Contracts. They protect you as well as them.
Chris Piers
10-09-2002, 08:29 AM
Sign a contract or you have no real basis to claim payment. If you had a contract you could take the guy to court. Personally, I'd want to go on the People's Court. That would be awesome.
p.s. I think you have the legal right to sell the artwork.
Sheesh. All you were doing was selling a picture. They should be flattered, if anything.
On the good side, being referred to as a "Rogue Artist" is bad-assed.
red7ine
10-09-2002, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by Mase
On the good side, being referred to as a "Rogue Artist" is bad-assed.
however, being referred to as a 'bitch-ass punk' by the guy is not
I was gonna respond to this earlier, but wanted to re-read the 'column' again. It sounds to me like you pretty much redesigned their crap-ass characters into something cooler. For whatever reason, you left before things 'got rolling', without receiving any compensation. If... IF ... there was a signed contract where you had a deal to do X amount of work for X amount of dollars, I would be crying out for them to sue your hide. However, a 'verbal' IM agreement is nowhere near the same thing. I see no difference in this and me drawing a pic of Batman and selling it on ebay. I don't owe Bob Kane any percentage of the money. If you take these characters and try to publish it, then yeah, you are in the wrong. But taking the artwork that you were never paid for and trying to get something in return ... ain't nothing wrong with that.
I'm sure if those guys were to read this, they would assume that all of us 'artist' types are sticking up for one of their own. However, I feel that, especially in comics, the visuals are the meat and potatoes of the art. Take those super-keen Batman pictures that Jim Lee is putting out that is all the rage with the kids these days... when you look at that picture, do you really got through the process of remembering Batty's origin? No, you dig it because it's a cool pic. I'm not saying writers are unimportant by any means, but comic books are a visual medium. Everthing hinges on the artwork.
vaught
MC Fumunda
10-09-2002, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Morganza
You don't think i'm worth reading it all?:(
now you made me feel bad. so i read it.
dude, rouge artist is badass.
and cleanup on those pictures, if you can.
i'm in agreement with everyone else.
Morganza
10-09-2002, 01:47 PM
Thanks everyone for reading:)
All i can say is i'll never work in this town again, according to Dan and Rob WTF Studios, i think i learned my lesson. Trust nobody:(
MC Fumunda
10-09-2002, 01:49 PM
if that is how business is done in "this town"...well then it's time to move, dude.
penciljack
10-09-2002, 01:51 PM
Not knowing all the particulars and all that was said, I can't really comment on the veracity of any party's claim in this matter. However, there is one touchy fact about contracts that a lot of folks may not know about.
If I understand correctly, in a situation where any form of "contract" is entered into, whether it's verbal or written, any deficiencies in the contract generally are the liability of the party that creates the contract (or, in some cases, the party that would be responsible for creating the contract).
It would seem to me that in this case, the WTF guys are the ones who "created" the contract, or at least the ones who would be responsible for creating the contract (since they are the ones who would be doing the paying).
Still, sounds like this is just a lesson for everybody involved - get as much in writing (and as much up front) as possible.
Inkthinker
10-09-2002, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Morganza
Thanks everyone for reading:)
All i can say is i'll never work in this town again, according to Dan and Rob WTF Studios, i think i learned my lesson. Trust nobody:(
They actually said that? Jeez, I hope the writing in their comics is better...
Which town is it, anyway? Not that it matters... most of us do business by Internet these days. I've only met a handful of my clients face-to-face...
dfbovey
10-09-2002, 02:03 PM
I've heard to many horror stories, I don't do any work without a written contract. Even in the past when I've done work that didn't pay, I still got a signed agreement stating the original art is mine to keep and can be sold at a later date if I wish. The only stipulation is that I could not use the art to create another publication and they could not publish another book with my art unless a new contract was written and signed by both parties.
You've got to cover you bases, other wise you are opening yourself up to get screwed over.
dfbovey
10-09-2002, 02:07 PM
As far as WTF Studios goes, they are only hurting themselves by handling this in public the way they have been. If you are having trouble with talent as a studio, it needs to be handled in private.
Devilman
10-09-2002, 02:12 PM
You want i should take them out? I never liked it when people were asking me if i was with wtf studios, or if it was mine. I'm just itching to see these cats sink.
I know this guy........
he can make it look like an accident.
Morganza, I didn't really read the whole arguement in question in its entirety but I read enough to know they are claiming you violated the terms of the agreement. If you did violate the terms of the contract, be prepared to defend yourself in court if they do decide to take the matter there. Go get a lawyer to defend you on a contingency basis. As you know I got an offer by the same people who offered you an erotic comic. The reason I am interested in the comic is because the writer agreed to sign a contract which I have had my brother draft (he is a lawyer) to make it official. My advice to you is the next time you go into agreement with somebody, read the contract carefully to make sure it doesn't favor the other party over you. If you got a lawyer to draft a contract for you which you yourself could then later alter based on the job that would be the best thing. A contract that basically enables you, the creator, to keep the original art and rights to character(s) you have created so that you could use the idea as a means of income whenever you wish. That way you can always whip out your contract anytime somebody is interested in doing buisness with you. I will have a contract (which any artist will be able to download and modify) on my website (I'm finally making my website) once I post my website soon. Good luck and don't be discouraged in working with other people because of this. Bye:)
Originally posted by FIG
Morganza, as you know I got an offer by the same people who offered you an erotic comic. he reason I am interested in the comic is because he agreed to sign a contract which I have had my brother draft (he is a lawyer) to make it official. My advice to you is the next time you go into agreement with somebody, read the contract carefully to make sure it doesn't favor the other party over you. If you got a lawyer to draft a contract for you were you could make small alterations to it based on the job that would be the best thing to do. A contract that basically enables you, the creator, to keep the original art and rights to character(s) you have created so that you could use the idea as a means of income whenever you wish. I didn't really read the whole arguement in question in its entirety but I read enough to know they are claiming you violated the terms of the agreement. If you did violate the terms of the contract, be prepared to defend yourself in court if they do decide to take the matter there. I will have a contract on my website (I'm finally making my website) were any artist can download it and modify it to their liking so I will keep you posted. Good luck and don't be discouraged in working with other people because of this. Bye:)
There never was a contract Fig - these dumbasses were just trying to get Morgan to give them free art and he fell for it. And to make this even better, I for one told Morgan not to work for these people in the first place. I just knew this shit would happen. NEVER, EVER, WORK WITHOUT GETTING PAID UP FRONT! How many times do I have to tell people that? It's just common sense - you dont want to get ****ed, then make them pay up front. Its as simple as that.
Morganza
10-09-2002, 02:46 PM
Thanks Fig, that contract template would be helpful!
I never signed a contract or had a verbal agreement, thats whats killing me about this, these guys are a group of people that claim to be publishers but are not. I first joined them because they claimed i would make some money working with them, but then the reality sunk in my thick head. This studio has been around for 2+ years and not produced a single comic online or printed.
And thier outrageous claims against me are just crazy talk.
Devilman, the raven crows at midnight
Originally posted by Morganza
Thanks Fig, that contract template would be helpful!
I never signed a contract or had a verbal agreement, thats whats killing me about this, these guys are a group of people that claim to be publishers but are not. I first joined them because they claimed i would make some money working with them, but then the reality sunk in my thick head. This studio has been around for 2+ years and not produced a single comic online or printed.
And thier outrageous claims against me are just crazy talk.
Devilman, the raven crows at midnight
*cough* I told you so... *cough*
Damn, I just edited my reply after you quoted me, Juan. LOL :D . Anyways if the case is that these fools did want free art and Morganza fell for it then he learned a valuable lesson and got burned. Getting burned has happened to all of us, what can I say. Morganza, get a contract made before lifting a finger next time.
Morganza
10-10-2002, 12:07 AM
If you ever get apporached by WTF Studios for work, do yourself a favor and read thier columns and message boards.
Devilman
10-10-2002, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by Morganza
If you ever get apporached by WTF Studios for work, do yourself a favor and read thier columns and message boards.
what ever happened to that thing that wolfprime was starting? He got all you guys to do that golddigger pinnup thing, right?
Morganza
10-10-2002, 12:59 AM
Yes Wolf helped me get a pin up published, he is a hard working comics dude!
Devilman
10-10-2002, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by Morganza
Yes Wolf helped me get a pin up published, he is a hard working comics dude!
maybe you could see if there's anything else going on with him. He was going to start trying to do that as a consultant-type gig for you brats, wasn't he?
Morganza
10-10-2002, 01:04 AM
Kevin is working on his own gig right now, it's looking pretty smooth too, he might ask me to do a pin up for it.
Originally posted by Morganza
If you ever get apporached by WTF Studios for work, do yourself a favor and read thier columns and message boards.
No worries, I have my own handy dandy contract if they ever want anything. It's very clear and upfront and luckily I have a lawyer brother whos willing to make alterations to the contract should the need arise.:)
Inkthinker
10-10-2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Devilman
what ever happened to that thing that wolfprime was starting? He got all you guys to do that golddigger pinnup thing, right?
I did one of those too... and it went to print, even. But honestly, the guys at Antarctic were dicks. They basically treated all the artists as though they were doing us a favor by even deigning to speak with us.
I don't need themt o do me any favors, I need them to treat me like a professional.
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