support society, stop cruelty

[Black Eagle]

just noticed this, and I was wondering if all of you could help:

http://www.mertonai.org/amina/


If you wish to help, spread the word, and sign the letter:

http://www.mertonai.org/amina/OpenLetter.htm

many thnx

[fatmancomics]

Alright, so I know this is going to start some major argument but what society are you trying to support? I mean, if that's the law where this lady lives than how is protesting against this supporting society? It sucks, yeah but that's the society she lives in. By the way; what happens to the father?

[bushiboy]

Signing a petition isn't going to stop this. Nothing short of a war or Jesus Christ will stop this. It's not as if they're going to recive a petition with a million signatures and go "What? Americans think this is wrong? Wow! Why didn't anyone tell us before?!?!? Stop the stoning! The Americans say it's wrong!!" See, they don't give a rat's ass what the infidels think, that's the point.
It's like not too long ago in Iran, when a man beheaded his own little girl because he thought she had been raped by her uncle and, as law states, it was her own fault. At least HE will go on trial, but he will probably be found to have fullfilled the will of Alah.

[Black Eagle]

Back in October 2001, 35-year old Safiya Hussaini was condemned to death, by stoning, for allegedly committing adultery. International outcry led by Amnesty International ( the Merton Amnesty Group campaigned for Safiya - see campaign archive) helped save her life; she was acquitted on technical grounds by an appeal court.

[HMG]

There is nothing we can do to stop it, government may be able to, by offering more aid or threatening to withdraw aid already given to the country, but that's not likely.

Religious laws suck no two ways about it. All you need is laws to prevent and punish stealing and abuse, that covers everything that need covering.

[Pep]

but if we don't say what we think about something then the governments are less likely to act on it and it will continue. so saying it doesn't matter if i sign or join or vote or speak or do anything coz it won't matter anyway is the same as agreeing with it.
outcries are imortant and they should be heard and considered.

[FD]

Different countries, different laws, different traditions... Who knows?! Anyways I do believe that it's just impossible to change people's mind or even to try to impose what do we think is "right" or "wrong" for the rest of the entire world... Life is what life is...

[bushiboy]

The fact is it does not matter. These foreign governments do not care what we think. At all. Do you think the American government has never issued complaints about these unjust laws? I can tell you for sure that they have, and it's only one of the million reason these people hate westerners. Your leaders are well aware of your feelings on these matters, they just can't do anything about them. Like I said :War or tolerance are the only options.
A mindset like the one of these people cannot be changed with talks. The things we HATE about them are taught to them at home, at church, and in SCHOOL. It's not a matter of showing them the error of thier ways, it's one of showing them that thier entire belief system has become a dangerous collection of hatred and falseties. These are people who will strap explosives to thier bodies and run into a building populated with civilians, and at the same time hide themselves in thier churches, schools, and hospitals because we are hessitant to bomb there. We need more crazy people in this country, people who will have plastique explosives surgically grafted to0 thier spinal columns.

It's like this :Colon Powell goes to the middle east for peace talks. Some Arabic leader sits with him at a conferrence table.

Shiek:"Hey, I like you. You are dark, like me."

Powell:"Yes, yes I am. I love your turban, what a lovely shade of red."

Shiek:"Thank you, Just yesterday I had it dyed in the blood of my sister, who with witchcraft forced my son to rape her."

Powell:"Well, that doesn't seem very nice, maybe she didn't mean too."

Shiek: "Screw you American swine! No more oil for you!!! I will roast my figs on the burning bodies of your infidel children you western dog!!!!! Alah Akbar!!!!!"

The rest of it is Powell going all jujitsu style on thier Saudi asses and later flying safely back to his own country, leaving a three story high pile of broken necked corpses behind.

We should just create an army of Powell clones. That dude is smart AND a bad-ass.

Everday I am thinkful for being born here rather than in some awful backwards country, like that terrible Sweden place.

[muthmaniac]

Bushiboy, that was probably the most racist, asinine, dispicable things that I've ever seen/read. And the funny thing is, that I kind of agree with the main point that you're trying to make. But, definitely not in the manner that you're making it.

Personally, I believe that if the people are going to practice that religion, live in that specific area of the world and follow those practices with no objections, then yes, they should be punished by those laws. It's cruel to American's as a nation, because we prefer to have our "good" citizens paying for the "bad" ones to sit in air-conditioned cells with Cable T.V. and a guaranteed three meals a day. (Meanwhile, people like myself are fired from their jobs, scrounge to find the way to pay their rent until a new job is available, and am lucky to eat once a day, let alone three nutritional meals...but, like I said above, I guess I'm asking for it)

Which is worse, who's to say. but, I don't believe - even if you're joking around - that the way you just presented yourself makes America look any better than the so called "uncivlized" nations, and sadly you're probably not the only person that would say that exact same thing. I hate American's too, and I live here!!

[XxspidermanxX]

but what right do we have as americans to comment on their way of life? this is their affair, not ours.

[DrVictorVonDoom]

We have every right, but not as Americans. As people.

Deciding that it wan't "our place" to comment on foreign treatment of certain people has done marvels for the world. One notable example is the slaughter of a few million innocent Europeans in death camps a couple of decades ago.

Yes, it's a blatent appeal to the emotions, but it remains true. We have a responsibility as fellow human beings to, essentially, have responsibility for one another. That's the idea behind the entire principle of society and government. There's no need to force the "American system" on any other culture, but there's even less need to turn a blind eye to injustice.

[bushiboy]

Originally posted by muthmaniac
Bushiboy, that was probably the most racist, asinine, dispicable things that I've ever seen/read.

{bunch of other stuff went here, yadda yadda religion, yabbitty blabbity punished by those laws, something about being fired, trying to make rent, other stuff I'm too lazy to read, etc...}

Which is worse, who's to say. but, I don't believe - even if you're joking around - that the way you just presented yourself makes America look any better than the so called "uncivlized" nations, and sadly you're probably not the only person that would say that exact same thing. {some other stuff wuz here too, go look it up again if you're curious and/or thorough}


I really don't think I was being rascist, and I also don't think I said anything good about America at all, except that by me living here I am exempt from having to deal directly with what I consider to be silly and dangerous religious laws. I myself am bound by no religion, and what I consider right or wrong comes from whom I see hurt by the actions or myself or others. I mean, I'm reading over my last post trying to find what you may find racist, and the closest I can come up with is my stupid use of the phrase "these people", for which I appologise.
As Far as for the comments about them being taught to hate us in church and school, this is true. A documented fact. A few months ago, readers digest ran an article called "How They Grow Terrorists" documenting just such a fact. The journalist was invited into a taliban financed school to see for himself how such a thing is just not true. He was there to give the Taliban a chance to show the world how this was a misconception, and in every classroom he was shown was drawn into lectures and discussions on how all Americans and westerners should die for thier crimes against thi middle east. Of coursem, they're also taught it's not all our fault, we are only the lapdogs of the Jews.

I'm really not bashing Muslims, I mean, it's not really muslims in general who are the enemy (though most hate us, worldwide). Go ahead and kill my family and friends, I will just imagine more. Who I'm talking to is anyone who thinks a petition makes any difference at all to any Muslim leader. They are all well aware of the western stance on such issues, They just don't give a hoot. Now, our OWN leaders may give a hoot, but are just powerless to do anything about it. A petition only has power where there is someone who will bother to read it, like a person who needs your vote. These people (there I go again) do not, and I am sure that if a petition is even read, it only done so to laugh at your expense, which I will also do right now.
(laughs at all the silly petition writers)

[danimation2001]

This is the reason why there's a war going on against terrorists.

If the whole world does not act as a whole, then we are going to have more horrible acts of violence directed towards us.

People have to stop being selfish by saying "well it's not our problem"

When the human race is involved then it is. It's the only way to true peace.

[muthmaniac]

I think that there is a difference between saying, "not our problem." and, not butting in to everyone's affairs.

Have you ever heard of the thing about not approaching a person abusing their children? It's because more than likely, they're going to take it out on the child for embarassing them or making a scene. sometimes, it's better to not do anything, no matter how frustrating it may be or how wrong it may seem. Sticking your nose in everyone's business isn't always going to help.

I'm not against giving aid to nations that are less fortunate, or helping a country that is oppressed by tyrannic despots. But, there has to be more inititive on the people's parts than just the United States butting in....especially in the cases of the Middle East, where most of our interest is only in making sure we're getting that oil!

I want the world to be one happy, shiny place as much as the next guy, but it's not going to happen by forcing our belief's or idealogies on other nations. Just as we're, the citizens of this country *assuming we're talking as American's here*, given certain freedoms, we ought to allow the other nations of this world the freedom to run their homelands as they see fit. It might seem barbaric to us, but those are the laws of that particular nation, the people that live there know that and should suffer the consequences if they break their laws. *naturally, the biggest thing with this stoning of this woman, is the fact that the man gets off scott-free...but again, I'm not sure how all those laws go....*

Bushi, I'm not ignoring you, just so you know. I just don't have a response...

-John

[Pep]

Originally posted by muthmaniac
I think that there is a difference between saying, "not our problem." and, not butting in to everyone's affairs.

Have you ever heard of the thing about not approaching a person abusing their children?
-John

true but in some cases it can be downright inresponsible not approaching them, and in some other cases even illegal.

[Bruce]

Originally posted by danimation2001
This is the reason why there's a war going on against terrorists.

If the whole world does not act as a whole, then we are going to have more horrible acts of violence directed towards us.

People have to stop being selfish by saying "well it's not our problem"

When the human race is involved then it is. It's the only way to true peace.


This is the reason we have a war against terrorists, but not the same thqat you think.
The terrorists are upset because we put our nose where it didn't belong. We went in and did things the way "we" thought it shold be handled an it has upset millions of peoples lives. This isn't just in the last 10 years or so. I'm talking about 50 or 60 years of doing this all the time.

There not our problems. They shouldn't be.
Pay attantion to the guy that beats his wife down the street or the homeless kid wth no education. These are our problems and people forget that we have them.
People worrie about what else is going on because there home seems safe form these horrible things. There are just as many things screwed up just out of my front door as there are enywhere else.

[muthmaniac]

Originally posted by Pep


true but in some cases it can be downright inresponsible not approaching them, and in some other cases even illegal.

Not unless the person that is being beaten, plans to do something about it. You can't have someone arrested that isn't doing anything to you.

Unfortunately, I've been in situations where this sort of thing has happened. A man, beating his *step*children, choking his wife. Someone calls the police, neither the woman nor the kids press charges...The police can't/won't do anything, even standing there looking at the bruises and cuts.

I'm not taking this position to be cold, or uncaring. But, America and any of the other "sovereign" nations aren't the caretakers of the world. And especially considering that our own countries are plenty screwed up, that we shouldn't be worrying about others right now. *Just to go along with what Bruce said* We can't be a peaceful planet, until we learn to care for what's wrong with ourselves, as opposed to what's wrong with everyone else.

By the way, I signed this petition when I first heard about it, I think that it was a couple days before it was posted here. I personally wouldn't want to see anyone get stoned to death, and it seems even more cruel, considering that these people have guns...What the hell is the use in stoning someone? For that reason, mainly, I signed it. I don't know whether this will have an effect on anything, but I saw it as a way to maybe help out. *Not that I want to see anyone killed for the simple fact of having a baby...*

Just for what any of that's worth.

[Pep]

Originally posted by muthmaniac
[B]

Not unless the person that is being beaten, plans to do something about it. You can't have someone arrested that isn't doing anything to you.


I may have misread the first time this was mentioned but it said that if you SEE someone abusing someone else then you're a witness and YOU can press charges. I know it's a precarious position and that the victims can suffer more but if you saw someone beating someone else up on the street, would you just walk by and do nothing, not even call the police?
I just hate the situations, I hate them when the victim is afraid to bear witness themselves. It's sick. A diplomat from another country was beating up his daughters, someone pressed charges but the law forces couldn't do anything because the man had diplomatic immunity. "Disciplining" your children with physical force and abuse is illegal here but in this case it can go on. Stuff like that just makes me sick. Sure he can gain a whole lot of 'bad press' and be sent home but his daughters will be sent home along with him. Disgusting. They should change those laws because to me they don't fall under the laws of humanity or whatever it's called.




*Not that I want to see anyone killed for the simple fact of having a baby...*


or not having a baby for that matter, but that's another story. There are too many people in this world already but stoning or bombing them away isn't really helping in any case.

[red7ine]

the way I see it, it is a moral and political stalemate. Yes, America has the power to change a country. Should we, in their best interest, do so? No. If they wanna walk on stilts and wear frisbees on their heads, let them. The year is 2002 and there are still a great many countries who's culture has barely evolved past the cave-dwelling stage. Should we, in OUR interest, do so? YES. tap into those damn resources. Convert them to this century, by force if necessary, and cultivate these cultures and people into something 'usable'.

If we go in and totally change the Afghani culture, we have the world leaders jumping up and down in anger. 10 years from now, if we don't, and they are still living in caves and afraid for their lives on a daily basis; still killing innocents and getting away with it, then every one will be criticizing the US for NOT doing anything. America has some truly amazing and wonderful resources at its disposal. But we can't feed a village of hungry people if the food is getting taken by the corrupt leader. If we try to overthrow this politico, we get grief. Then, if we abide by everyone else's 'rules', we get jumped on for not doing enough.

so, basically, we need a superhero team like the AUTHORITY to come in and kick ass without nationality ties.

vaught

[harmonix]

I don’t think that most terrorists hate the west enough to kill us all because of some ill placed policies or soldiers. Most of them are willing and want to kill the west (along with themselves) because they have nothing better to do with their lives. They have nothing to look forward to in life, so paradise after death sounds more appealing.

They hate our success as a nation (relative as it may be). They hate American possibilities and freedom. They hate that Americans can, if they’re lucky, rise above their position in life and excel. They hate us because we’re popular.

I’m not saying that there hasn’t been a few mistakes (huge ones) in the past regarding the middle east by all of the administrations but the question is, would America be any safer if we had done nothing? I don’t think so, we would still hate us and say it’s because we never get involved and only worry about ourselves.

It’s to broad a brush to day that Americans should never get involved, or always get involved, but the truth is we’ll be hated either way.

The sucky thing is that I think that the only way for our success as a country to continue, without someone nuking us, is to share the wealth with other nations both intellectually and financially. It sucks because we have a hard time doing it within our own country, and now we have to worry about others as well.

With all things considered, remember this. No attempted democracy has lasted over 200 years and this year makes the 224 anniversary of this nation. Anyone else worried?