"Fallen"

[Whune]

conceptual designs of the main characters

not happy with the dragony character yet

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/Whune/20120624.jpg

[Whune]

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/Whune/Photoon6-25-12at849AM2-1.jpg

[dxdragon]

Nice work...but what's your address....I want to send you plain white paper

[hadesillustrations]

Try making the dragon a little less human. Play with his proportions some. I think you'll find you get some interesting results. With a fantasy character, not all proportions need to work properly - muscles don't have to make perfect sense. It's nice to base even deformed anatomy on something that is recognizable for "realism", but correct proportions often get in the way of this type of design. The Hulk, for example, doesn't have proper human anatomy (which is why I still have trouble drawing him), but you get the idea he's massively powerful - his huge wrists, ankles and hands get that across. You dragon would certainly benefit from exaggerated features that might not jibe with the rest of his proportions. You've already done this with his neck - push it further.

Also, get some batwing ref. The way you have his wings working doesn't make sense. This the the "real" anatomy base needing some refinement. There are things you can push and things you cant - a digit emanating from his elbow is something you should avoid.

I look forward to seeing your progress on this! :)

[crazyjedichicken]

nice stuff but i think you need to become a little imaginative with the dragons chest/neck intersection, maybe have it curl back on itself like the turtle in kung fu panda ( just an example)? i like your stuff! keep us posted on the progress on these!

[Whune]

Nice work...but what's your address....I want to send you plain white paper

*chuckles*


Try making the dragon a little less human. Play with his proportions some. I think you'll find you get some interesting results. With a fantasy character, not all proportions need to work properly - muscles don't have to make perfect sense. It's nice to base even deformed anatomy on something that is recognizable for "realism", but correct proportions often get in the way of this type of design. The Hulk, for example, doesn't have proper human anatomy (which is why I still have trouble drawing him), but you get the idea he's massively powerful - his huge wrists, ankles and hands get that across. You dragon would certainly benefit from exaggerated features that might not jibe with the rest of his proportions. You've already done this with his neck - push it further.

Also, get some batwing ref. The way you have his wings working doesn't make sense. This the the "real" anatomy base needing some refinement. There are things you can push and things you cant - a digit emanating from his elbow is something you should avoid.

I look forward to seeing your progress on this! :)

I agree with most of this; accept the part about muscles not having to make sense.
I just kind of went default when I got to under the arms...
I should go back and take the same approach i did with the wings in relation to the arms

I was going for horse-like body with emphasis of broad chest to facilitate the wings;
but I either lost sight of that... or it's not translating in the profile.




nice stuff but i think you need to become a little imaginative with the dragons chest/neck intersection, maybe have it curl back on itself like the turtle in kung fu panda ( just an example)? i like your stuff! keep us posted on the progress on these!

hey,
thanks

[hadesillustrations]

They don't have to make PERFECT sense. It's ok to stray a bit, as long as it still makes sense to the viewer. Here's a recent example of some "modified" anatomy on something:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u225/hadesillustrations/Spot72.jpg

The front legs are too thick for that anatomy to work, but it still looks "correct".

[Fallenangel]

Hey,
I agree with Hades about the anatomy that "makes sense" issue.
Here is a link to something that might be useful (although it talks about painting)
Imaginative Realism - How to Paint what Does not Exist (http://www.amazon.ca/Imaginative-Realism-Paint-Doesnt-Exist/dp/0740785508/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1340655823&sr=1-1)
There are probably more books on the matter...google them up.

Fallen

[Whune]

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/Whune/20120625.jpg

(that bit inside the jaw is supposed to be a membrane; rather than the inside of the mouth. if forgat to clean that up)


thanks Alex, I'll check that book out

[Ncyte77Etern]

Is this here for a critique or are you just posting it?

The reason I ask is that my crits can be rather "advanced" to say the least. I've been away for awhile and the last thing I'd like to do upon my return is incite a riot like the one in your batman/joker post. If you do accept, feel free to speak as you please. You cannot offend me.

[Whune]

Is this here for a critique or are you just posting it?

The reason I ask is that my crits can be rather "advanced" to say the least. I've been away for awhile and the last thing I'd like to do upon my return is incite a riot like the one in your batman/joker post. If you do accept, feel free to speak as you please. You cannot offend me.

Contrary to accusations... I actually have a history of flatout agreeing with critiques.
most recent ex:
http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?115783-Battyman&p=1298194&viewfull=1#post1298194
older example that comes to mind:
http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?113553-Professor-X-(dun-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh)&p=1271089&viewfull=1#post1271089
My button in the past has been notions that something is just straight wrong; rather than the particular person just didn't care for it or how i did it.
Like the infamous mouths on the side of the face thing..
It's a staple of manga; ergo at the worst HOW I'm doing it just isn't working; or at best they just don't like that stylistic choice.

and notions that I'm hiding in my style; rather than making deliberate choices that might not be working.
At one time I decided to go pure line-art (no shading) precisely because I didn't want anywhere to "hide."

That said...
I think I've finally grown out of reacting to the latter scenarios.

so feel free... draw-overs the whole 9

^_^

[Ncyte77Etern]

Relax dude. I appreciate counter feedback. I think we all do here when it's on topic and not overly personal.

Ok.

Firstly, what do you like about your sketches?

What do you want us to see?

I'll tell you that I like the strength of your lines. You look to have a cool style in development.
The character designs, at least up to this point seem a little bland to me.

[Whune]

Ok.

Firstly, what do you like about your sketches?

What do you want us to see?

I'll tell you that I like the strength of your lines. You look to have a cool style in development.
The character designs, at least up to this point seem a little bland to me.

what I like is kind of vague...
I guess pretty much the same thing you just said.

What I dislike is pretty much in line with what you just said as well.
I feel like I need more dynamics in terms of my construction and proportions.
I have a vision that is highly expressive realism; but I think It's getting bogged down in the realism side.
I don't think the solution to that is to "not try and make everything make sense"
I think the solution is to think more abstractly in terms of shapes and forms at the outset... and not think in terms of functional structure until I've settled on my proportions overall.

Side note:
I think I'mma invest in this Steven Silver's Character Design class; at schoolism

[Ncyte77Etern]

Reading your reply, I get the feeling that you may be putting a bit to much pressure on yourself when working on these designs. I'd suggest that you let loose a bit and just draw what you are excited about drawing. Play with the concepts some. You wanna draw a fierce dragon guy that's off the beaten path? Then break out of the "expectation mold."

If you can get what I'm saying here then you're well on your way. Technically, you seem to have the basics covered, now comes the hard part, the part that some cool person tried to tell you in a previous thread. It's not drawing that's hard. That comes with practice. It's that something else....get my drift?

What exactly would you like to get out of sharing this with us? My opinion? I think the characters are rather bland. I'd like to see what you can really do. Oh. Please stop with the line paper....it's kinda distracting and some would say....well, you probably know that already. I hope I was helpful with this.

[Whune]

Reading your reply, I get the feeling that you may be putting a bit to much pressure on yourself when working on these designs. I'd suggest that you let loose a bit and just draw what you are excited about drawing. Play with the concepts some. You wanna draw a fierce dragon guy that's off the beaten path? Then break out of the "expectation mold."

If you can get what I'm saying here then you're well on your way. Technically, you seem to have the basics covered, now comes the hard part, the part that some cool person tried to tell you in a previous thread. It's not drawing that's hard. That comes with practice. It's that something else....get my drift?

What exactly would you like to get out of sharing this with us? My opinion? I think the characters are rather bland. I'd like to see what you can really do. Oh. Please stop with the line paper....it's kinda distracting and some would say....well, you probably know that already. I hope I was helpful with this.

You're totally hitting the nail on the head with the "too much pressure" bit.

I've literally more workable story material backed up than I could finish in my lifetime.
and I've been [strongly urged] to put together a proposal for my own book
I'm just wanting to get the ball rolling.

This thread is WIP for a story of mine called "Fallen"
So the character designs are all driven from that story.
The dragon/demony character has to have arms in order to hold his sword
He's supposed to symbolize strife/opposition/challenge/problems/insurmountable odds... in a story that - in my head - is classical art themed.

I was using lined paper for just the reasons you stated: to loosen-up;
but I think from here on out I'm happy using graph paper for conceptual designs such as this
(because I'm doing all conceptuals as turnarounds eventually)

might be more of the same but..:
http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/Whune/Photoon6-26-12at804AM.jpg
(sorry it's not a scan; but I had to make it quick and go to work)

[Whune]

Technically, you seem to have the basics covered, now comes the hard part, the part that some cool person tried to tell you in a previous thread. It's not drawing that's hard. That comes with practice. It's that something else....get my drift?



it'd be awesome if you could link me to that comment you are paraphrasing; or at least refer me to the post it's a response to; because I think I missed that; and should like to read it in full context.

[Ncyte77Etern]

http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?115812-Batman-amp-Joker/page3

DevinC post #21

You're welcome.

Peace.

[mayhem]

Whune - any publicity is good publicity, wish I got this much critique controversy.

[amadarwin]

Sometimes you have to take a step back and clear your head. Play a game, read a book, take a walk, etc.... then come back with a fresh perspective. It doesn't always work, but it's a good thing to practice.

I say this because it seems you're dead set on rooting the dragon-thing on the anatomy of a human. Taking a step back will allow you to possibly open your mind to either new angles or new approaches altogether. I'm not saying your idea couldn't work - people have done it successfully for many years, but what do you think if you compare it to some animal anatomy. Virtually the same muscles are in use, just shaped differently. What about insect anatomy?

Until you have something nailed down, nothing is wrong with exploring your options.

[caanan02]

I relaly like the concept of the dragon. a different spin on it - 4 arms and such...

[Whune]

http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?115812-Batman-amp-Joker/page3

DevinC post #21

You're welcome.

Peace.

sweet.
thanks.




Whune - any publicity is good publicity, wish I got this much critique controversy.

yeah, that's true.
Philosophically speaking I believe in being thankful for everything; regardless.
I just don't always manifest according to said ideal.



Sometimes you have to take a step back and clear your head. Play a game, read a book, take a walk, etc.... then come back with a fresh perspective. It doesn't always work, but it's a good thing to practice.

I say this because it seems you're dead set on rooting the dragon-thing on the anatomy of a human. Taking a step back will allow you to possibly open your mind to either new angles or new approaches altogether. I'm not saying your idea couldn't work - people have done it successfully for many years, but what do you think if you compare it to some animal anatomy. Virtually the same muscles are in use, just shaped differently. What about insect anatomy?

Until you have something nailed down, nothing is wrong with exploring your options.

I guess that's because that's how it came out in some layouts of the pages I've done...
and those came from how I see it in my head; so...
but yeah.

In general I had this thought as I left work today:
"The only reason something isn't easy for us is if there's some key piece of knowledge or skill that is prerequisite to whatever we are trying to do. The solution isn't to try more and or harder...
The solution is discern what prerequisite I've missed."

I think for me in this situation and in general the solution is to go through Steven Silver's Character Design course at Schoolism; which seems to be all about composition of forms in relation to one another rather than analytical figure construction.


I relaly like the concept of the dragon. a different spin on it - 4 arms and such...

hey thanks
^_^

[amadarwin]

I think for me in this situation and in general the solution is to go through Steven Silver's Character Design course at Schoolism; which seems to be all about composition of forms in relation to one another rather than analytical figure construction.
That actually sounds really good.

[Whune]

That actually sounds really good.

^_^
http://schoolism.com/?share=b3u0n
if you use this link you'll get a discount; and I'll get points for the referral as an alumi