Hulk Sequentials: Fat Man & Little Girl

[tudore]

http://th07.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/139/5/e/hulk__fat_man_and_little_girl__1_3___wip__by_tudor e-d50bgdl.jpg

Page 1 of 3, Panels 1-3 of 8

Excuse me while I bulk order some agent orange. So much hate for the aerial view of trees.

Any crit is welcome, and please, pull no punches. I'd like to get this right for the final draft.

[Jcatlett76]

My main crit is, I really have no idea what I'm supposed to be seeing her. Here's a book I have on sequential storytelling. It has some good insights I think.

http://www.amazon.com/Panel-Discussions-Design-Sequential-Storytelling/dp/1893905144/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337358631&sr=8-1#reader_1893905144

[tudore]

@Jcatlett: Thanks. Let me lay out what's supposed to be happening:
Panel 1: pre-transformation view of skydivers soon after jumping out of the plane. Viewed from below.
Panel 2: She-Hulk POV: post-transformation, view of Hulk, his shredded shirt, and the ground.
Panel 3: View of site of impact, prior to collision.

[hydekomiksink]

2 cents= Your not giving your page any structural direction. You've focused on the panels, but the page as a whole does not lead the reader's eye well. Remember the "Z" formation to structure your page. It really does help with the final result.

[tudore]

@hydekomiksink: Thanks!
Do you mean the action in the panels should center on the upper left of the top panel, the center of the middle panel, and the lower right of the bottom panel?
Could rotating the top panel 180-degrees work?

[tudore]

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac108/1tudore/HulkSequential0011.jpg
So, even if I didn't already need to redo this page, now I definitely have to to reorient the panel. I think this rotation improves the flow, but the second panel would probably work better as an inset in the upper left corner of the third.

[golgotha]

it does not look like hulk hit the ground in panel 2. he looks much larger than the tree tops and he should be covered by the trees.
why do we go back in time in panel three? it should have hulk rising from a crater and she-hulk falling through the branches.

[tudore]

@golgotha: The whole page is pre-impact, so the Hulk is still above the tree-tops. The final panel is supposed to give a sense of the landscape, to provide context to the damage. The next page is the impact.
Thanks for commenting.

[Deth]

You should start your comic with an establishing shot. She hulks leg looks like hulks leg. I realize she's muscular but you have to keep it feminine. Hulk is barely noticeable in the second panel. The third panel looks like simple landscape. There's no indication of the characters in it. If this is the landing site then the characters should be there. Keep it up.

[tudore]

@ Deth:
Thanks for the feedback. For She-Hulk, I wanted to make her look like she's somewhere between a legit female body builder and somewhat ogre (http://magnoliapearl.tumblr.com/post/22614968123/nsfw-i-guess-kris-and-i-were-talking-about-how-to)-like.

For the second panel, I wanted it to be clear that the Hulk was underneath her, so I think he has to be fairly small, right?

Maybe I should shorten the sequence: change the first page so that it just has a panel of the forest, and then a panel for the impact?

[fatmancomics]

The whole thing looks incomplete and confusing.

Panel 1: The angle is uninteresting and too many body parts on the foreground figure are missing. This makes it look awkward. The background figure and plane are little more than sketches and, to make things worse, that figure looks nothing like a female. Make the panel into a three quarter view of the two figures jumping (or falling?) out of the plane. Use sky diving reference for the poses of the figures and for the plane as well. Since we don't get to see the She-Hulk in panel 2 she HAS to be seen in panel 1 ESPECIALY since she hasn't transformed yet.

Panel 2: Agreed with the comment that the leg and foot are WAY too masculine. The She-Hulk is a character that is already established as feminine and attractive, no matter what version you look at so you can't take that away. Also, where are the details that were asked for in the script? Where's the Hulk's tattered shirt? The ground can still be seen if he is closer as well. Once again, reference is needed here for that background. Right now it looks like pencil scribblings, not a ground shot.

Panel 3: Reference. Stop being lazy with the light logic (shading) and that goes for all the panels. Just because using the point of your pencil at an angle for shadows works in some instances doesn't mean that it will ALWAYS work. Sometimes we just have to draw those shadow shapes and color them in.

Hope that helps.

[tudore]

@fatmancomics: Thanks, I appreciate the time you put into being so thorough.

I did use a fair amount of reference, but I tried to change the layout and positions so as to avoid directly copying the images. This is already a recurring issue of mine. I need to improve my grasp on anatomy.

Panel 2: The tattered shirt is to the (viewer's) right of She-hulk's knee. I wanted to add more wrinkles, but I was already struggling with making sure the foreground elements were visible against the darker background. As for the She-Hulk, I would like to draw her as more muscular, but I understand there's a real need to hew more closely to the source material.


Panel 3: I suppose I just need to draw directly from reference photos to get a sense of how the shadows should fall, and then try to recreate that in the drawing itself. I did a couple sketches directly from photos before sketching out this one, but apparently that wasn't enough.

I think I'll eliminate the second panel, and change the first panel to an embed of the She-Hulk about to jump out of the plane as the Hulk is already falling.

[Deth]

If I were you I'd start with an establishing shot of the plane in the air. then second panel with a worms eye view have them both jumping out. then 3rd if you dont want the impact to show yet show the forest and 2 small figures falling. But if the next page is going to be a splash page of the impact you need to draw an impressive landscape and impact effect. good luck

[tudore]

@Deth:
I'm not sure how I'd convey the degree of damage dealt with just an impact shot. Isn't it necessary to provide context with a 'before' shot?

The next page is four panels, so not a really a splash page. [Page 2: panel 1: Hulk impact; panel 2: She-Hulk immediately before impact; panel 3: soldier in bunker reacting to hulk impact; panel 4: She-hulk emerging into the bunker through the ceiling]

Thanks for following up.

[tudore]

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/144/d/8/hulk__fat_man_and_little_girl__1_3__v_2___wip__by_ tudore-d50xo8d.jpg
Ok, so that face in the upper right looks like something out of ICP, and I'll need to rework that face/back in the bottom panel for the hundred and second time, but this is the layout. Thanks everyone for your advice, and any flaws in execution are mine and mine alone. Tomorrow, knock out the layout for pages two and three, and then polish everything off after, and finally but this baby to bed... and then smother it to death.

[Deth]

Ok tudore I don't want you to be offended by what i say but I think you should focus on figure drawing. Sequentials will come later but I think your fundamentals need work

[tudore]

@ Deth:
Thanks, that was a very diplomatic way of putting that, and it'll save me a lot of time.

I'll spend my remaining time working on a single-page piece. I'll be uploading some of the drawings I did for reference; if you could point out the salient issues, I'd appreciate that.

[tudore]

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef002.jpg
http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef001.jpg

[tudore]

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef003.jpghttp://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef004.jpg

[tudore]

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef008.jpg
http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef007.jpg
coelabeef (http://tudore.deviantart.com/favourites/49723018#/d26wr6n)

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef006.jpg

[tudore]

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef010.jpghttp://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef009.jpg

[tudore]

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef011.jpghttp://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef013.jpghttp://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/2tudore/HulkRef012.jpg

[spidey976]

Hey tudore

These all have lots of promise, but the more I look at them the more I am reminded of a lot of the mistakes that I use to make.

Firstly, when I look at these pieces I don't see any of the undersketches (the foundation that you built the final figure on) at all. I don't see the skeletal work or the gesture work that is most often needed to get a nice flowing figure, and to outline your characters anatomy(muscle position). In fact I don't even see to much of it in your. This stage should be your FIRST step, and once you get a better handle on that you will see improvement. I can always post a link to a piece or two I have done if you want a better idea of what I am talking about.

Secondly, I would say that you should probably change the paper you are drawing on. From what I can see you are drawing on just a normal coarse paper sketch pad, but a bristol board pad will hold up MUCH better and allow you to get a cleaner line. Strathmore series 300 would be a good start, and when you are ready to make the jump 500 series is sweet.

Finally, I would suggest that you check out some of the sketch blogs here are PJ. Loston's is AMAZING as are many others. They will give you a better idea of how people improve. Hell if you look at mine you will see a lot of the SAME advice given to me over the last 5 years as I would suggest for you, and maybe you can learn from my mistakes... lol.

Keep on drawing dude ... it will come.

[tudore]

@spidey:

Thanks for taking the time to give some some considered advice. I've been trying to work on my anatomy, and I do scores of gesture drawings every week [usually 15min-hour each session, depending on how much free time I have.] I've been trying to use Bridgman blocks, and have a few pdfs of artists' anatomy textbooks to work from, but I think I need to spend more time on those.

Right now, I am just using sketch paper; I suppose bristol will be available here, somewhere, but I'll need to see how much it goes for.

[Deth]

bristol is pricey. if your only sketching I would suggest printing paper. It's less course than sketch paper which will allow for smoother drawings. I noticed with your drawings that they are more like sketches from anatomy books. and theres nothing wrong with that. But, you have to consider how inks will look over your pencils. unless you plan to skip the inking phase altogether.

when it comes to choice in paper remember that its all about the papers "teeth" the more course the paper is the more teeth it will have. the more teeth is has the more the paper catches the graphite in your pencil thus allowing you to shade better. the coursest paper I know if is watercolor paper. it has course teeth to pick up the water and retain it. Bristol is smoother and thicker to allow for inks to set properly on the paper. anything thinner would most likely seep through. But like I said at this phase when your mainly working on fundamental drawing I'd stick with copy paper. But consistently move up as your skill improves.

as far as your fundamentals, Spidey has pointed out alot of things that are spot on. really work on your proportions. i noticed you tend to make your heads somewhat small.

i realize you are doing a hulk sequential so all your ref is going to be overly muscular people but really focus on average size individuals so you get your proportions down. there are a bunch of measuring tools when it comes to anatomical proportions but that would take a while to explain and should really be it's own thread.

any questions feel free to ask any of us.

[Jcatlett76]

I'd like to add to what Deth said about the paper. However, I don't use standard printer paper. I use card stock which is of a much heaver weight so withstands more abuse. It's much much better than sketch pad paper and unlike printer paper, it's better for erasing and not holding pencil lines. It's also great for shading as well. I even use two pieces taped together for doing sequential or larger pinups before transferring to Bristol via light box. It's also cheap enough to discard.

As far as your drawing is concerned. I think you'd do very well to not worry a lot about sequentials at this stage in the game and concentrate more on things like figure drawing, perspective and anatomy. The one resource that comes up again and again is the book "How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way". I recommend getting that along with "Joe Kubert's Comic Book Studio". He goes more in depth about sequentials and panel design. Also, anything by Andrew Loomis is great for learning to draw the human body. I forgot to mention a book called "Perspective Made Easy".

No matter what you do though, keep drawing and draw everyday. Even when you think you aren't in the mood or too tired...draw anyway. You can always count on the folks here to help you out. There are some fine talents lurking the halls of this site and it has helped me tremendously over the last two years. And don't be afraid to screw up, it's part of the learning process.

[Jcatlett76]

Edit:

Double posts are like stop lights, I always hit the red!

[JohanneLight]

Heya Bro,

Been reading here that you have some challenges with drawing same body parts, try Bridgeman's Complete guide to drawing from life and Andrew Loomis's Figure Drawing for All it's Worth. Understanding the mechanisms of the human body will help you a lot in drawing it right. Hope this helps.